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System crash

Last response: in Windows XP
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May 5, 2011 10:24:13 AM

Hello,
I'm having a problem with my desktop. When I watch some flash movies (youtube, google, newgrounds) sometimes my system crashes, first I wont be able to click on anything and if I just click a few times with my mouse you'll hear a system beep and then I’m not even able to move my mouse anymore and just have to press the reset button on my computer.
I don't know what the problem is and I was thinking maybe you guys could help.

I’m also having some other problems witch may be the cause, in the boot screen it sometimes say’s that I need a bios update to unleash the full potential of my cpu and it will always say something about surge protection was activated by your psu, I’ve had problems that my computer wont boot just the fans are spinning but no beep, I can solve that by removing one stick of ram and then flash the bios (so I’ve got the newest bios for my mobo) and put the stick of ram back in. it’s not that my computer is dead, it’s quite fast sometimes but it just annoys me.

I also don't know where to put this so I’ll just put it in the general discussion.

Thanks in advance
Carlo Kleijnendorst

More about : system crash

May 5, 2011 12:30:11 PM

sounds like your psu tripped the surge protection in the past. You need to make sure that all the components are still working, that nothing got burned out.

can you list all your components so ppl can check for hardware compatibility? Having to pull out hardware just to boot the pc up doesn't sound fun

what browser are you using while flash problems occur? have you tried other browsers?
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May 5, 2011 1:33:17 PM

i've tried IE7,8 google Chrome FireFox so jea that's not it, ill post a list of the components when i'm home.
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May 5, 2011 2:23:53 PM

CPU: Intel pentium 4 506 @ 2660Mhz
MOBO: Asus P5G43T-M PRO
RAM: 2x 1GB Kingston ram kit (ddr3 Part Number 99U5474-003.A00LF Serial Number 8D1A5DC3) @ 800Mhz
GPU: Radeon HD 5830 (MSI twin frozer II)
HDD: WD caviar green HDD 500GB
PSU: sharkoon SHA450 450W
and just a dvd burner a few speaker sets a monitor a mouse and a keyboard a gamepad and a microphone.
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May 5, 2011 11:59:49 PM

sap chicken said:
I don't know what the problem is and I was thinking maybe you guys could help.
Solution starts by analyzing software and hardware separately. Better manufacturers provide comprehensive hardware diagnostics for free. All manufacturers have these diagnostics. Only a few will let you have a copy. Your's is not one of those more responsible manufacturers.

So you must step through the problem sub-system by sub-system. The first task takes a full minute if you buy or borrow a multimeter. Measure six critical wires where the PSU connects to the motherboard both before and as the power switch is pressed. Then those with superior knowledge will define, without doubt, what is defective or what is fully functional. Currently, every reply will only be "it might be this", or "could be that". Wild speculation.

Before anything else can be defined good or bad, those six wires must be measured.

Otherwise just start replacing good parts until something works. Those are your only two alternatives. If you start replacing parts, then your first option will be lost. Again, your choice. Either find a defect by following the evidence. Or start buying new parts by virtually throwing a dice.

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May 6, 2011 7:13:52 AM

so it can have something to do with the PSU? and um those 6 wires I'll just have to do a google? I've got a multimeter.
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May 6, 2011 1:08:12 PM

sap chicken said:
so it can have something to do with the PSU? and um those 6 wires I'll just have to do a google? I've got a multimeter.

Set a multimeter to 20 VDC. With AC connected and computer powered off, measure the purple wire. It should read about 5 volts. Record that number to three digits. Repeat for the green and gray wire both before and when the power switch is pressed. Record both numbers for each wire. Then measure any one red, orange, and yellow wire as the power switch is pressed. Recored what each does. Then report those numbers here.
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May 6, 2011 9:44:26 PM

all the black ones are ground right?
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May 7, 2011 9:05:32 AM

okay the results:
purple: before i pressed the power switch it said 5.090V when i pressed the power switch it began fluctuating between 5.500V and 5.600V and when I shut it down again it said 5.770V

Green: before i pressed the power switch it said 5.740V when i pressed the power switch it said 0.280V??? and when I shut it down again it said 5.740V

grey: before i pressed the power switch it said 0.340V when i pressed the power switch it 5.610V??? and when I shut it down again it said 0.000V

red: these measured 5.050V 5.080V 5.090V 5.140V and 5.150V

orange: these measured 3.590V (witch also had a brown wire in it) 3.610V 3.620V and 3.640V

yellow: they both fluctuated between 12.950V and 13.150V

the numbers are measured at 2 decimals because my multimeter did so, is it okay this way? or do I need to buy a better multimeter? also a little something, it now had that problem with the ram again.

I’m going to upgrade my PC somewhere in the beginning of summer holiday and I just want to know if the PSU wont hurt the new stuff.
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May 7, 2011 8:32:40 PM

Some of those numbers concern me. For example, the power controller circuit must be powered constantly. To monitor the power switch and other functions. It measured 5.09 (a three digit number). Good voltage. But when the power switch was pressed, it rose to an unacceptable 5.5 to 5.6. It must not. Somewhere, a higher voltage is getting into the power controller.

Green wire it the power controller telling the PSU what to do. It should only read what the purple wire provides or lower. Not 5.74 VDC. At this point I am concerned either that your ground is wrong (was it to the chassis or a black wire?), the meter has a problem (which does not explain the good 5.09 VDC on the purple wire), or serious voltage leaking is occuring on the motherboard.

Well, the leaking is not from the +5VDC supply that measures a good 5.05.

3.3 VDC (orange wire) is also excessive at 3.5 and 3.6. And 12 volts is also quite excessive - well above 12.5 volts. And just below what would trigger the overvoltage protection circuits. Those circuits, when triggered, literally short out the supply to protect all other hardware.

You numbers are three digits - not three decimals. The meter is has sufficient number of digits. But I am very concerned at extremely unacceptable voltage numbers. I cannot think of any one failure that would cause so many defective voltages. And suspect a completely defectively designed power supply. Generally if one voltage goes high, all go high. But regualtion for your supply is so bad that one good voltage (+5VDC) causes other voltages to go excessively high.

Bottom line: either the measurements were made incorrectly. Or that power supply is completely screwed up by design. Since I cannot think of any other part that would cause such defective measurements.

But this we know. You have posted numbers that identlfy a completely defective power system. Ignroe everything else. Until those voltages are correct, then nothing else is 'known' good or bad. First fix those voltages. Either the meter is defective. Or more likely the power supply is bad. (Your voltages can even be a symptom of a power supply that is too large with poor regulation.)


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May 7, 2011 9:22:12 PM

could it be wall power? because we live in an old house without earthed connections can I just push a multimeter in a wall-plug? And will it be covered by the warranty? because it will work sometimes?

The to large part I don’t really get, do you mean the current running of it can actually be to large for the way it’s build?

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May 8, 2011 5:56:55 AM

sap chicken said:
could it be wall power? because we live in an old house without earthed connections

A computer's power system makes power variations irrelevant. For example, incandescent bulbs can dim to less than 40% intensity. And that is perfectly ideal power to all computer due to what every power supply must do.

A three prong computer powered from a two prong receptacle might create some problems if other peripherals are powered separately by another three prong receptacle. Then maybe 60 VAC might use that peripheral as a connection to safety ground (wall receptacles have safety ground; not earth ground). But that would not explain bad DC voltages.

Your power supply voltages vary from acceptable to excessive. Variations (assuming the meter was reporting correctly) imply a design problem in the supply. A computer consumes 200 watts or less. If the supply is 1000 watts, then the tiny computer load powered by a massive and poorly regulated supply could explain variations.

But this you know. First get those voltages corrected. If that means another supply, well, that solution will be made obvious by the meter.

If other defects exist, those defects cannot be addressed until this obvious problem (excessive voltages) is corrected. Nothing on AC mains would account for excessive DC voltages.

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May 8, 2011 9:01:25 AM

ah thanks for the help, I think I was to fast with buying a cheap power supply. I've got this old 300W power supply witch it came with, the problem is that it hasn't got a 6pin connector for my Graphic card.
I'll check the voltages with that PSU and if the voltages are alright I'll check if the problem with the flash video's still exists, if that solved everything I know it's the PSU right?

So what is a good power supply, I was looking at the guide here and the #1 on the 650W chart is only 70 euros here (witch is about $100) do you think that it is smart to buy it anyway?
XFX xxx 650W
http://xfxforce.com/en-us/Products/PSU/Classic-Series/6...
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May 10, 2011 1:04:58 PM

okay here by all the errors I get when i Boot:
BIOS update recommended.
To unleash this CPU's full power please perform BIOS update process.

Power supply surges detected during the previous power on.
ASUS anti-surge was triggered to protect system from unstable power supply unit.

I can also solve the main problem with flash movies. I removed my Video Card and plugged my screen into the motherboard, the video's lag a lot but it wont crash.

Also I found something for the voltages. In the bios there is an option for me to monitor hardware, there it says:
VCORE Voltage = 1.320V
3.3V Voltage = 3,424V
5V Voltage = 5,043V
12V Voltage = 12,144V
I don’t know if this are the correct voltages, but its just something I found.

I got surprised due to that the Power supply error disappeared when I got my computer downstairs, I plugged the computer’s monitor from downstairs in my computer and booted and it only said the BIOS update error. I booted a few times without a problem, then I connected the monitor from my room on it and than the error was back…
So I just connected the other monitor again, but the error staid. Then I tried to flip the switch on the back of my PSU and waited for a while, booted back up and the error was gone again. And now the error will only return when I enter the BIOS, and I can remove the error by shutting off the PSU for a while.
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May 10, 2011 1:57:36 PM

well as pointed out already, all pointing to a faulty psu...
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May 10, 2011 7:16:32 PM

sap chicken said:

Also I found something for the voltages. In the bios there is an option for me to monitor hardware, there it says: ..
3.3V Voltage = 3,424V
5V Voltage = 5,043V
12V Voltage = 12,144V

Listed previously were all important voltages that must be provided. The 3.3 is still on the verge of excessive. However, (if I did not say it before), the motherboard's voltmeter is not reliable until calibrated by a multimeter.

I have no idea what ASUS means by a power supply surge. There is no amp meter to detect a surge. It would be helpful if they define what is meant by a surge and how it is measured. The surge could be indicated by a excessively low voltage or an excessively high voltage. Without that fact (ie numbers), then subjective information is not helpful.

Moving the machine only says (for example) noise downstairs only causes a 5.093 reading. And noise upstairs causes a 5.04 reading. Meanwhile, neither number should be influenced by noise. Rumored noise should result in numbers much lower. Nothing in this paragraph says what really exists. Only an example of why a supply problem exists no matter where it is powered. Says nothing about why a problem exists or how to eliminate it. Again, meter readings from all required wires both before and as the power switch is pressed says much more. And still not provided.

Do not cure symptoms. Locate a reason for that problem. Other important facts include where the ‘inside chassis’ AC power green wire is bolted. And which motherboard standoffs are conductive to the mounting plate. Questions to better address possible noise are irrelevant until a multimeter takes numbers from six wires defined earlier. You are shorting your best help of important and repeatedly requested information. So these replies remain not very useful.

I see no reason to believe the CPU has any defects. Everything so far reported says the CPU is probably OK.

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May 10, 2011 7:23:46 PM

Last sentence was supposed to read (system would not let me edit it):

Confusing is why the old PSU and new PSU provide same numbers for 3.3 (orange wire). It shouldn't. Another reason why a motherboard voltmeter (hardware) must be calibrated by a multimeter.

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