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Peltier (TEC) + Water + Mineral oil idea/question

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March 3, 2009 8:41:48 AM

Would combining the full mineral oil immersion build (you've all seen it on youtube, typically in an aquarium) and TEC water cooling eliminate the condensation issue with the sub-zero temps?

I would leave the PSU and the water system (pump reservoir radiator) out, and put all core components under peltier and water.

Technically, the water should dissipate enough heat for the peltier to produce sub-zero temperatures nice and steady (with proper power of course), and the mineral oil should keep the components condensation free...

Its just theory, and I'm still very new at all this.

Plz tell me what you think.

NB: I already posted this thread in homebuilt systems, but I feel it would fit in alot better here, sorry for double post.
a b ) Power supply
March 3, 2009 9:55:11 AM

Sounds good in theory.
March 3, 2009 10:49:13 AM

I would say you'd be voiding any/all warranties..
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a b ) Power supply
March 3, 2009 4:49:40 PM

I was thinking of doing some thing very smiler. Instead of using Water on the loop for the TEC I was thinking of using mineral oil.

I am planing on building the aquarium PC and right now I have pump, rad (heater core) and the tools. I plan to make my own TEC block.
March 3, 2009 9:27:29 PM

shadow, i want to see this pics of this futur beast ! i still dont know how im going to configure my next beats. but im surely going to use :

I7 + P6T v2 + DDR3 1600 + SLI GTX285 everything WCed.

im thinking about buying a BOREAS 12tec, ill have condensation trouble with this Boreas ?
March 3, 2009 9:42:01 PM

I highly doubt this would work well. Heat from the environment would be transferred to the oil. Some of the heat from the hot side of the peltier would also go into the oil, despite the water cooling. This large amount of heat then will then be transferred through the oil to the cpu/ cold side of the peltier. So, I highly doubt it will cool all that well, let alone get subzero temps. You need to do what LN2, or phase change cooling people do. Insulate the motherboard with foam, petroleum jelly, etc, so that any frost, condensation can't affect the components.
a b ) Power supply
March 3, 2009 9:55:37 PM

^That is why you put the oil itself through a rad/heatercore or two. See updated Aquarium PC: http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php

boulard83 said:
shadow, i want to see this pics of this futur beast ! i still dont know how im going to configure my next beats. but im surely going to use :

I7 + P6T v2 + DDR3 1600 + SLI GTX285 everything WCed.

im thinking about buying a BOREAS 12tec, ill have condensation trouble with this Boreas ?

No, I don't think you will have condensation. But be aware that you won't get very good performance from it as it's rated Qmax of 130W and the i7 920 on stock itself has a TDP of 130W (note: the actual power is lower, ~100W or less on max load). Seriously, if you plan to drop $400+ on the Boreas 12 you might as well get a quality water cooling set up (D5 pump + GTZ + 120.x or better rad).
March 3, 2009 9:58:38 PM

It could work, perhaps. I know all this stuff sounds really cool and exciting, but i've known people who have done oil submersion cooling, and it mostly just creates huge inconveniences. Changing any hardware becomes a huge chore, and you have to have a big and hard-to-move aquarium placed near your desk.

Think really hard about whether you REALLY want to do this before you do. If you want to do some extreme overclocking or just have a great conversation piece, then proceed and have a great time doing so.

If you're just curious about the possibilities and want to experiment, maybe practice on cheapo hardware first just to be sure you don't fry expensive equipment accidentally.

If you want the best gaming experience, take the money you were going to spend on this cooling setup and put it toward a better/second graphics card and a good air cooler for your CPU.

If you end up going through with it, be sure to post with your results so we'll know how it turned out.
March 3, 2009 10:03:38 PM

Shadow703793 said:
^That is why you put the oil itself through a rad/heatercore or two. See updated Aquarium PC: http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php


But the oil will still only be as cool as the room temperature, at most. Thus this heat will still be transferred and most likely not allow for sub-zero temperatures.
a b ) Power supply
March 3, 2009 11:06:35 PM

^Yes, that is correct, but the CPU still should(possibly) be cooled below ambient in theory.
March 3, 2009 11:09:40 PM

Shadow703793 said:
^Yes, that is correct, but the CPU still should(possibly) be cooled below ambient in theory.


Below ambient, certainly possible. But sub-zero, very unlikely.
a b ) Power supply
March 3, 2009 11:12:39 PM

^Of course! For below ambient you need Dry Ice or LN2.
March 4, 2009 1:32:35 AM

First note: This is just conversation / idea, but I must say I am more than tempted to test this out on an old pc (athlon3200 if i am not mistaken)

Now

If I understand correctly all the posts, you guys feel the cooling efficiency of the TEC/water setup will be substantially hampered by the mineral oil?

is the space filled with thermal compound between the cpu and heatsink air tight?

In the mineral oil submersion builds, the heat dispenses from cpu to oil or from cpu to heatsink to oil?

since only the mobo and all direct attachements (graphics, ram, cpu, waterblocks of course), I think a flat container no higher than 6 inches would be sufficient for the job, and require less oil than the builds already out there.

I love the oil radiator idea, wonder how well it will work on mineral oil...
March 4, 2009 2:21:03 PM

i Already have a WC kit ... Swiftech GT, 655 pump, 2x120 rad. im only WCing my CPU. adding a BOREAS in my loop could make the water temp droping awesomely. Reviews ive read about the BOREAS12 are really nice.

But ive took a look at this MINERAL OIL setup and its really interesting me !

i could use my pump-rad for the oil, and put back my TT air cooling and drop it all into the oil. but ill need to swapp my GPU cooler coz the stock one will thow the oil outside the aquarium loll !
a b ) Power supply
March 4, 2009 7:36:24 PM

Quote:

In the mineral oil submersion builds, the heat dispenses from cpu to oil or from cpu to heatsink to oil?

From CPU to HSF to oil.

Quote:
is the space filled with thermal compound between the cpu and heatsink air tight?

I'm not 100% on this, but I would guess as to it's pretty close to perfect fit else the CPU would be boiling ton the Puget System's aquarium PC.

Quote:
i Already have a WC kit ... Swiftech GT, 655 pump, 2x120 rad. im only WCing my CPU. adding a BOREAS in my loop could make the water temp droping awesomely. Reviews ive read about the BOREAS12 are really nice.

I don't think you'll be able to drop your temps much. Any ways, like I saied before, the Qmax for the BOREAS is 130W. The TDP for i7 itself it 130Ww. Imo, I would use this TEC:
http://www.petrastechshop.com/2250tec1.html
226W Qmax.

Quote:

If I understand correctly all the posts, you guys feel the cooling efficiency of the TEC/water setup will be substantially hampered by the mineral oil?

The thing is you are using water on a separate loop, if you just somehow manage to set it up so that the mineral oil is taken from the tank and passed in through a rad back to tank, then I think it should work. Imo, TEC is not really needed.
Quote:
since only the mobo and all direct attachements (graphics, ram, cpu, waterblocks of course), I think a flat container no higher than 6 inches would be sufficient for the job, and require less oil than the builds already out there.

Bad idea, get the largest tank you can find, so that the Oil doesn't heat up quickly and the rad doesn't get overwhelmed.
March 4, 2009 7:55:38 PM

THX for answer shadow
March 5, 2009 3:05:31 AM

Very helpful info shadow, ty.

About your last suggestion about having as large a tank as I can: considering all the really hot components (CPU GPU NB SB) are under tec water, will there really be that much heat actually transferred to the oil?

I guess this method would be just as complicated as sealing and insolating all components likely to go below 0C, as it is currently customary in TEC water builds, just a little different... Both have the pros and cons, risks and rewards!

...Still seems like a fun project to test out!
March 5, 2009 11:24:36 AM

yeah, im attrated by both ... mineral and TEC.

but im the kind of guy that change his stuff at least twice a year. (GPU or MOBO or CPU) well i keep sell and buy ...

Mineral is going to be a PAIN in the ass for me loll ! i think ima going to try TEC for my CPU and if i really like it, my futur I7 build will benefit of the experiment done with my OLD E6850.

Ive read the puget review about mineral cooling. my god ! your right that it seem to be really nice. REMEMBER what they told 2 or 3 times. EVERY parts are cooled, that way thee is no HOT spot on the mobo.

i think that if you buy a nice RAD like in the test, 9x120mm loaded with 1000rpm fan or even less, youll have a nice steady 40c oil temp like in the test and a REALLY low noise computer.
!