Gaming and Video editing in one

jproaster

Distinguished
Dec 9, 2008
26
0
18,530
Hey all.

So...I'd like to do a first build with my 12 year old son- but I'm not build savvy.

I'd also like to build it for good gameplay and video editing (using Canon HV30).

I'll need to get everything (monitor too) for under $1500- but I'd like to stay close to $1000 if possible. I can upgrade stuff later too.

Part of this project is to let my kid learn about computers and have a good time together. It's gotta be better than buying a Dell online right?

Even though I've read many threads on different sites, I'm still open to reading more- I do want to understand how this stuff works.

Thanks,
John
 

squilliam

Distinguished
Dec 8, 2008
18
0
18,510
Hi John,

I have just the article to educate you and your son about building a computer today:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/257075-31-what-parts-choose

I'm going to post a parts list here, but I won't explain myself too much. I'll let that link do the explaining.

Since our target is US $1000.00, we will not be using the latest Intel CPU. This list may not reflect the absolute best deals available at the time of purchase, but will be close.
Antec 900 case

Gigabyte UD3P crossfire P45 motherboard

E8500 CPU (You may decide on quad core after reading more)

4GB G.Skill RAM

1GB Sapphire 4870 video card

Corsair 750TX power supply

WD 640GB hard drive

HP DVD burner

Sunbeam Core Contact CPU cooler

MS keyboard and mouse

Acer 22" monitor

Vista 64-bit Premium OEM


OK, so that's about $1300 before shipping, but also before rebates. It can be trimmed down to under 1100, at the cost of future upgrade ability. It covers absolutely everything.
 

jproaster

Distinguished
Dec 9, 2008
26
0
18,530
Thanks guys.

My son and I would like to bump it up some though. We're not made of money, but we'd like to play the latest games too.

Let's do quad processor and a motherboard that we can learn to oc.

Thanks for the link Proximon. Very helpful info.

Jp
 
Are you under the impression that quad core is used by the latest games?

Only a few games are coded for multiple cores. The majority of games will benefit more from an overclocked dual core, because you'll have faster clock speeds on a dual.

However, if your video editing software is coded for quads, or you think you will multi-task a lot, then by all means, simply plug in a Q9550 to the build:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115041
That will add 130.00 onto the cost.

The system I laid out will overclock very well. It will play the latest games at the highest settings, with the exception of perhaps Crysis, where you will need to spend at least another 1K to play at the highest settings.

If a game comes out that does cause this system to struggle, you simply add the second 4870. You already have the power supply and motherboard to handle it.

 

antiacid

Distinguished
Oct 21, 2008
456
0
18,790
I agree with Proximon, as usual he is very helpful.

Another motherboard to consider is the p5q pro which I know for a fact overclocks very well. Perhaps the gigabyte oc just as well, I just haven't had the chance to play with it. Some other upgrades could be a nicer mouse/keyboard combo (I'm sure a 12years old would enjoy a backlit keyboard for christmas *wink*) and possibly a q9550 instead of the e8500.

Enjoy your new hardware!
 
Proximon's build and suggestions are great. I'll nit-pick and say you can get a faster optical drive with lightscribe for less $.

SAMSUNG Black 22X DVD+R 22X DVD-R 16X DVD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151173 $28.99

That's all I've got. :)

The Gigabyte board Proximon linked above is an awesome board and overclocks great. I'd pick it over the P5Q Pro.

If you think you'll be watching any HD on the computer, you could get this monitor:

ASUS VH226H Black 21.5" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen 16:9 Full HD 1080P LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 1000:1 (ASCR 12000 : 1) Built in Speakers - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236051 $189.99

It's $20 more, but offers full 1080 resolution (1920 x 1080) instead of 1680 x 1050 on the 22". Either way they're both a great price on a nice monitor.
 

jproaster

Distinguished
Dec 9, 2008
26
0
18,530
(I'm sure a 12years old would enjoy a backlit keyboard for christmas *wink*)

Man. You must know my kid. He salivates over that stuff. Knowing him, he'll upgrade to that stuff. The boy knows how to save money.

I'll be looking at some of the suggestions in the latest posts to better understand what's best for gaming and video editing. Editing is a monster from what most are telling me at HV20 forums.

Thanks again.

Proximon- going quad core won't slow down gaming too much will it? I'm willing to look at a better graphics card to have good gaming- it will be half- owned by my son.

What would be needed to use the processor you suggested Proximon? Are we still under $1500? or at least close?

Thanks,
jp
 

kubes

Distinguished
Nov 4, 2008
925
0
18,990
The graphics card that Proximon suggested is really a great card. Its one of the best you can get.

This is a gtx 260 (216 core) which is a bit cheaper and is at par with the 4870.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130400

I do agree shortstuff with the monitor suggested. Its worth the extra $20 bucks to get HD and 1900x1000 resolution. Will make your gaming experince much more fun and "clear".

I think you've got some of the better guys in these forums (antiacid, shortstuff, proximon) working on your setup so take their advice. Also great idea to do with your boy and to introduce him to the world of computing. That's what my dad did and it stuck with me and now makes me more money than i know what to do with. Makes my job feel like a hobbie.
 

jproaster

Distinguished
Dec 9, 2008
26
0
18,530
Antec 900 case

Q9550 ??

4GB G.Skill RAM

Which motherboard??

Corsair 750TX power supply

WD 640GB hard drive

Which graphics card?

SAMSUNG Black 22X DVD+R 22X DVD-R 16X DVD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe - OEM ??

Sunbeam Core Contact CPU cooler

MS keyboard and mouse

ASUS VH226H Black 21.5" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen 16:9 Full HD 1080P LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 1000:1 (ASCR 12000 : 1) Built in Speakers - Retail ??


Vista 64-bit Premium OEM

Now to figure out the mobo, work out a couple suggestions and the cost. WOuld like to order asap.

Thanks for all your help. I've learned a ton so far. I like the x48 chipset btw.

jp
 
"Open box" means the product was returned. I would stay far away from any "open box" deals. It may work out, but I wouldn't risk it. It could be as simple as a noob who couldn't read the manual and figure out how to get it to run, or it may be a board that someone overclocked until it blew up and then returned it. It's very risky. I really like the GA-X48-DS4, but it's currently out of stock at newegg. Zipzoomfly.com has them in stock, but they're a little more expensive.

GIGABYTE GA-X48-DS4 LGA 775 Intel X48 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10007742&prodlist=celebros $232.99

I also really like this GPU:

SAPPHIRE 100259-1GL Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102801 $239.99 -$15.00 MIR

Edit: Newegg has the GA-X48-DS5 for less than the DS4 posted above. It's a very nice board.

GIGABYTE GA-X48-DS5 LGA 775 Intel X48 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128332 $229.99
 

jproaster

Distinguished
Dec 9, 2008
26
0
18,530
Do these items work well together?


SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4870 100259-1GL Video Card

GIGABYTE GA-X48-DS5 ATX Intel Motherboard

SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S223Q

SAMSUNG 2253BW Black 22" 2ms(GTG) Widescreen LCD Monitor

Antec Nine Hundred Black Computer Case With Side Panel Window

G.SKILL PI Black 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800

CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W

Western Digital Caviar SE16 640GB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive


Sunbeam CR-CCTF 120mm "Core Contact Freezer" CPU Cooler

Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit English for System Builders 1pk DSP OEI DVD

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 2.83GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor
 

kubes

Distinguished
Nov 4, 2008
925
0
18,990
Ya i'm not sure if you need the x48 board either (could go with a p45 board?) but this is a very good looking build. I think its well thoughtout and best bang for your buck setup. It targets your needs and wants very well. Let us know how it turns out!
 
I don't know why everyone's questioning the X48 chipset board. The OP said "I like the x48 chipset". I really like the idea of a setup that's ready to drop another GPU in without slowing down the new card. The 4870 has enough bandwidth that the P45 will significantly slow it down in crossfire by dropping to a 8x/8x link speed. It's not really a big deal for 4850's, but I wouldn't do crossfire 4870's on a P45 chipset.
 

jproaster

Distinguished
Dec 9, 2008
26
0
18,530
I agree that the p45 could do the job; but the more I read about what shortstuff has pointed out and the assistance with bluray, it may be wise for the video stuff.

Will let you know where things are today. Hope to order today.

Thanks,
jp

*couldn't have done this without you all : )
 
This card also has a nice aftermarket cooler and is slightly overclocked. It costs a bit more though:

POWERCOLOR AX4870 1GBD5-PPH Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131120 $264.99 - $20 MIR

This card looks pretty nice too:

ASUS EAH4870 DK/HTDI/1GD5 Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121291 $249.99 - $20 MIR

If you don't like those cards, here's a list of all the 4870 1GB cards on newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&Description=4870%201GB&bop=And&Order=PRICE

I know it's hard to wait, but you might want to give it a day or two to see if the Sapphire card comes back in stock.
 
Most of the testing of performance between P45 and x48 bandwidth was done early on, when P45 drivers were still immature.

The most recent test, done right here at TH, suggests very little difference in actual benchmarks.

PCI Express & CrossFire: Scaling


crossfire-scaling_08.png


crossfire-scaling_16.png



I have been recommending X48 for crossfire builds for several months now, only suggesting P45 crossfire as a "just in case" option or when money was very tight and just for 4850.

These new numbers however make me want to avoid x38 and x48. I think 80 dollars for 2-4 FPS is a pretty good trade, especially given the FSB overclocking potential and stability of the P45 chipset. Also, my impression is that P45 BIOSes, while having more options, are easier for first time overclockers to use.

jp, that Sapphire card has been there and not there several times over the last few days. Give it 24 hours and if it doesn't show up, look for other 1GB 4870s.




 

antiacid

Distinguished
Oct 21, 2008
456
0
18,790
As proximon pointed out, THG's latest comparison between p45 and x48 shows that p45 is the clear winner in the perf/$ department.

Also, from experience with P45 boards, the bios is extremely user friendly. Hell, you can basically set your multiplier, fsb and ram to the number that you want and go for "auto" on the voltages settings and get something stable up to like 40% OC :p

(of course you might want to tweak everything by hand to optimize properly and the board lets you do it too).

to find equipment in the states, you might want to try www.pricewatch.com
 

jproaster

Distinguished
Dec 9, 2008
26
0
18,530
So...would all/most agree that a p45 board would be a better starter board for my kid- heck; probably for me too.

I don't know too much about this stuff, but I was thinking that the dual crossfire boards took a serious hit in the p45 over the x48. Something about 16 vs 8 something or other.

Sorry 'bout the lack of terminology right now. Trying to get my shop ready for a couple evening events.

jp
 
Yea, a P45 board will be fine. You're referring to crossfire going to a 8x link speed when using a P45 chipset board. An X48 chipset will continue to run at a full 16x link speed when in crossfire mode.

The charts posted above show the latest difference in speed. I guess things have changed a little since I last checked the benchmarks. Of course that's assuming you can trust Tom's charts. I lost a lot of respect for their ability to test boards with the horrible reviews they put up earlier in the year. At the time they were using a CPU that wasn't even clocked high enough to drive the GPU's they were testing, especially in crossfire/SLI mode. If these charts can be trusted, you can see you won't be losing much speed by going with a P45 board.

I really like this board:

GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358&cm_sp=DailyDeal-_-13-128-358-_-Homepage&guid=28e23a828ae049b990b0a9ec48cbc426 $136.99 -$20.00 MIR