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Intel following AMD?

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jaydeejohn   03-03-2009 at 02:56:55 PM

Its my understanding that Intel is going with TSMC for their Atom SoC. I know theyve closed a few fabs, but why this move? Theyre bound to lose money, they may have to wait for production, as TSMC's other business may demand too much, and ultimately itll cost more. These are all the things being said about AMD and the foundry, so isnt it all just as possible for Intel, going with TSMC? I know theyre currently ramping the smallest process right now (40nm), leaving Intel a lil behind, TSMC must be pretty decent then eh?

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spud   03-03-2009 at 03:30:35 PM
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jaydeejohn wrote :

Its my understanding that Intel is going with TSMC for their Atom SoC. I know theyve closed a few fabs, but why this move? Theyre bound to lose money, they may have to wait for production, as TSMC's other business may demand too much, and ultimately itll cost more. These are all the things being said about AMD and the foundry, so isnt it all just as possible for Intel, going with TSMC? I know theyre currently ramping the smallest process right now (40nm), leaving Intel a lil behind, TSMC must be pretty decent then eh?



:pfff:

Word, Playa.

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jaydeejohn   03-03-2009 at 03:37:23 PM
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Well, so you didnt like my Thunderman eh? heheh Ya know, he isnt easy to duplicate

------------------------------ I went drifting, thru the capitols of tin, where men cant walk and cant freely talk, and sons turn their fathers in
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dattimr   03-03-2009 at 04:19:34 PM
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The 40nm of all mighty leakage, you mean? Well, they should get it fixed by the time an Atom goes out of there, since no schedule was released. As stated by Techreport:

Quote :

""The collaboration is intended to expand Intel's Atom SoCs availability for Intel customers for a wider range of applications through integration with TSMC's diverse IP infrastructure." That means Intel could allow customers to license and tweak Atom SoCs for their own use. That would explain why the partnership is meant to "accelerate deployment of the [Atom] architecture through multiple SoC implementations."



From Anandtech this time:

Quote :

There are two motivating factors behind today’s announcement and both of them serve Intel’s interests.

First is capacity. While Intel processors normally go into PCs, Atom based designs go into netbooks today and smart phones and other CE devices in the future. Remember that by 2012 Intel plans to be shipping 200M Atom processors per year. Note that today Intel ships around 200M desktop x86 CPUs per year.

Atom will continue to grow but, especially in price sensitive applications, if it starts requiring the creation of new fabs just to meet demand for Atom then you start to eat into the profitability of the chip. Growing far beyond 200M Atom processors per year either requires additional fab investment or making the CPUs elsewhere. TSMC appears to be that elsewhere.

The move to TSMC would allow existing TSMC customers to potentially merge their designs with an Atom SoC. Intel mentioned that it would retain complete control of what Atom SoC products are built, so this isn’t quite ARM-like in that you can’t just go an license the core, but it’s definitely a step in that direction."



You are talking as if you would buy a Core i7 "by TSMC". Perhaps AMD should be following Intel in "how to clearly see a trend coming in the industry and have a product ready for it, instead of saying it won't ever take off", how to market a product, how to have a credible roadmap (or any, for that matter), how to have a stock worth of something more than a couple bucks, how to manage a company into profitability... and many other things more useful than threads like these.

They way you put things here doesn't change me, Jay, but it won't do you any good on the eyes of "fan seekers".

Reply to dattimr
djcoolmasterx   03-03-2009 at 05:37:56 PM
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You should have had the title as "Intel copies AMD [Shocking]"

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yomamafor1   03-03-2009 at 05:51:49 PM
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I fail to see how this is "Intel following AMD". Intel is pushing for more Atom adoption by allowing customers of TSMC to integrate Atom to be a part of SoC solution.

By the way, process technology is not all about the size of the transistor. Like dattimir pointed out, leakage, as well as yield also comes into play. I'm sure "the one who used to post on here" wouldn't just focus on the size of the transistor, would he? :sarcastic:

------------------------------ Intel will not take the top spot, or probably the top 3 spot back for the forseeable future. Not even with 32nm and more cores will intel be able to beat Jaguar. - JennyH the AMDiot, Nov 2009
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Bronze CPUs badge cjl   03-03-2009 at 09:52:19 PM
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Also, the gate pitch is actually tighter on Intel's 45nm (160nm gate pitch) than for TSMC's 40nm (162nm gate pitch), meaning that Intel's 45nm can actually pack more densely than TSMC's 40nm, despite the naming.


Message edited by cjl on 03-04-2009 at 12:36:20 AM
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astrotrain1000   03-03-2009 at 10:04:38 PM
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I actually thought "Thunderman" when I read the title. As far as the post you forgot to mention Intel is Evil, lol.

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fazers_on_stun   03-06-2009 at 01:45:55 AM
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According to [url=http://www.overclockers.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4366:pcsales&catid=53:editorials&Itemid=4259]Overclockers[/url], Netbooks are estimated to almost double sales in 2009, compared to 2008. I guess Intel doesn't want to expand or switch over production since the rest of the market looks like it's going head-first down the toilet:

Quote :

PC Manufacturers will be hurting big time this year. Gartner (a technology consulting firm) is forecasting unit sales to decline 12% this year to 257 million units. The mix in these numbers is really telling:

Desktops are predicted to drop a stunning 32% from 2008 to 101 million units
Mobile PCs are forecasted at 155.6 million units, up 9% over 2008
Netbooks the bright spot - forecasted at 21 million units in 2009, up almost 80% over 2008
Regular notebooks forecasted up almost 3%
Emerging markets are forecasted to decline of 10% while mature markets decline 13%
Gartner also indicated that replacements account for an estimated 80% of sales in mature markets - with excruciatingly bad business conditions, replacement rates can quickly fall to rates that can drop the forecast into some really gloomy territory for PC manufacturers. I would not be surprised to see forecasts in a few months of a 20-25% drop in units.




As for Thunderpants, maybe he read the last part of the above article and then jumped off the nearest bridge :):

Quote :

Chipmakers Intel and AMD are in for a bumpy ride - Gartner forecast chip sales to decline 24% this year - and that is probably optimistic.

Intel can weather the storm considering its relatively healthy financials and great placement in the netbook market with the Atom CPU.

AMD is quite another story. You will see about a $1 billion cash infusion due to the manufacturing spinoff to Abu Dhabi, so the first quarter's results should be better than one might expect. However, this is a one-trick pony; after the first quarter, the market's ugly dynamics will take hold and financial results will get a big hit.

AMD is making some splash with its 3-core-can-be-four-core CPUs among the fan-boys, but that's not enough to sustain a business long term. AMD is running out of rabbits - with the manufacturing spinoff, AMD has sacrificed its long-term profitability to the gods of economic survival. The "Foundry Company" as a separate for-profit company is going to take margin from AMD - period.

The hard truth is that AMD is looking more like a bankruptcy than before, and while it would be a disaster for consumers, don't be surprised to see a severely restructured AMD by 2010.

Reply to fazers_on_stun
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