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Air vs water cooler

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April 25, 2010 12:42:23 AM

Hello, I have x58m and i7-920. i want to overclock and i am confused what cooler to buy. air type or radiator type? what are the advantages and disadvantages?

More about : air water cooler

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a c 86 K Overclocking
April 25, 2010 3:25:44 AM

Water cooling, well proper watercooling starts at about $250. High end air is under $100. An H50 is watercooling, but not in the same class as real watercooling.

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April 25, 2010 3:36:35 AM

air : easier to install then watercooling, less hassle, less mess, no worries about air dripping on your components and shorting something out.

disadvantages : most aircoolers have a thermal resistance of 0.2C/w of heat displaced meaning...if theres a W of heat to be cooled with the air cooler...0.2C will stay with the heat sink.

so if there is 200W of heat to be displaced, your air cooled heat sink will be 40c above ambient and so will your cpu. if 100w of heat to be displaced 20c above ambient.

water : looks cooler(in my opinion) cools ALOT better and allows you to manage the space in your case a bit better. theres not a hulking heat sink around your cpu and you can customize where you want your watercooled components to be. also with the cooling power.

The hotter the water gets, more heat a given radiator will be able to remove from it. If the ambient temperature's 25° Centigrade and the water goes into a given radiator at 35° and comes out at 30, then, all things being equal, increasing the input water temperature to 45° means it'll only be 35° when it comes out. theoretically if you have a radiator that is extremely efficient.

disadvantages : leaks, messy, can cause your computer to short, yearly/bi yearly drain and maintaining of the blocks and such.

a good starter watercooling kit would be something like

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8411/ex-wat-140/Swift...
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April 25, 2010 3:40:18 AM

$250 unless youre like me and ghetto rig everything up and only spend $150ish ^_^

used block, pump, radiator $100

hose $1 a foot got 6ft $6

barbs got 6 barbs at $1 a piece $6

clamps were about $4 for 10

around $30 to build my own reservoir
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April 26, 2010 5:52:35 AM

Low quality water cooling (i.e., a lot of Thermaltake, Koolance and Zalman gear falls into this category) will give you just about the same level of cooling as high-end air cooling. If you want to invest a lot of time and money, though, high-end water cooling is the entry point for serious overclockers and modders. Once you hit the thermal barrier in air cooling, it is the best way to go to get to the next level.

You need a good water cooling loop before you even consider thermoelectric cooling, and phase-change cooling is even more expensive and time-consuming when you consider that you will be cooling sub-ambient and have to prep your mainboard with dielectric grease and conformal coating to deal with condensation.

To be honest, it all comes down to how much money and time you have to invest. You can try to go down the less expensive path and originate a lot of your own gear, but unless you are very skilled at thermodynamic engineering and have a machine shop in your garage, you are going to find that a lot of the high-end kit that is sold at sites like Xoxide, Petra's Tech Shop or Dangerden will perform several degrees better than your own.

If you do have the guts to make your own kit, my hat is off to you. You will probably spend more time learning how to machine your various parts, but in the end, you will be a member of an elite enthusiast community, and may even end up selling the rest of us your kit, or selling the design to a larger operation for a mint.
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April 27, 2010 5:17:43 AM

to houndsteeth : i made my own reservoir ^_^ total capacity of the res is about half a gallon!! my reasoning is that the more fluid capacity your loop has the more stabile the temps will be cuz its taking more time to heat up all the fluid. the only bad thing about the res is that i made it into a waterfall type res and it is only good for bleeding air out of the system...turned out to be really noisy.
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April 27, 2010 12:38:08 PM

Conumdrum said:
Water cooling, well proper watercooling starts at about $250. High end air is under $100. An H50 is water cooling, but not in the same class as real watercooling.


Actually now there is a water cooling kit for CPU ONLY that is below $100 and it has great reviews on it . It's called the CORSAIR Cooling Hydro Series. Basically it's a closed-loop water cooling with a radiator and a 120 mm fan on it. I got one and just ordered one and i cant wait for it to arrive. :D  :D  :D 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

:hello: 
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a b K Overclocking
April 27, 2010 1:04:49 PM

reaper23 said:
Actually now there is a water cooling kit for CPU ONLY that is below $100 and it has great reviews on it . It's called the CORSAIR Cooling Hydro Series. Basically it's a closed-loop water cooling with a radiator and a 120 mm fan on it. I got one and just ordered one and i cant wait for it to arrive. :D  :D  :D 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

:hello: 

Did you actually read the post that you responded to ?
The H50 that Conumdrum mentioned is the Corsair Hydro.
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a b K Overclocking
April 27, 2010 2:26:32 PM

^+1. LMAO.

Unless you have ~$250-300 don't even bother considering WCing.
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April 27, 2010 5:30:48 PM

i4yue said:
to houndsteeth : i made my own reservoir ^_^ total capacity of the res is about half a gallon!! my reasoning is that the more fluid capacity your loop has the more stabile the temps will be cuz its taking more time to heat up all the fluid. the only bad thing about the res is that i made it into a waterfall type res and it is only good for bleeding air out of the system...turned out to be really noisy.


Actually. I would bet that it's not really as noisy, but the flow of the waterfall would make one ready to visit the restroom at very regular intervals LOL. And you are right about total fluid capacity in your loop giving you a larger thermal sump, but eventually, no matter how much water there is in your loop, it will find a thermal equilibrium where your capacity to dissipate heat equals your computer's ability to generate it. Let's just hope that point is within a comfortable range where your components can exist.
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April 27, 2010 5:42:17 PM

reaper23 said:
Actually now there is a water cooling kit for CPU ONLY that is below $100 and it has great reviews on it . It's called the CORSAIR Cooling Hydro Series. Basically it's a closed-loop water cooling with a radiator and a 120 mm fan on it. I got one and just ordered one and i cant wait for it to arrive. :D  :D  :D 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

:hello: 


Hi reaper23,

Yes, we are aware of the Corsair products, and no, it does not equal a custom cooling loop. It does use some good components, but by nature, it is a closed loop and has limited thermal capacity (IIRC, it uses a heater core fitted to a 120mm fan, and the fan can be set to two different speeds). Once you hit the thermal wall, your temperatures will creep upward until you have a boil-off. Your processor will be dead well before that point, though.

That is why it is always a good idea to have too much radiator in your loop rather than too little. In essence, unless you are willing to invest in a custom loop, or you can buy a pre-built kit that has a higher thermal capacity than your computer (which would be a bit more expensive than a custom loop), you are better off sticking to high-end air cooling.

Good luck with your H50. It is a good place to start getting your feet wet in water cooling without actually having to jump into building your own loop from scratch. But if you are expecting performance any better than high-end air cooling, you will be sorely disappointed with your results, since you can get the same or better performance for half the price from air cooling. But if it leads you into building your own custom loop, chalk up the expense to a good start to learning how to water cool.
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April 27, 2010 6:41:17 PM

Yes I have read the post and I was throwing one option out there. If he wants to experience watercooling with out the hassle then he can get that. The only bad thing about air is the dust you gotta clean off the heatsink . Also I bought the h50 because I am only 17 and I don't feel like spending $500 for water cooling and such. Also I know the limitations of the h50 so I am not ignorant , I know it's not as good as a good water cooling setup but it a really good heatsink overall. Also I should have reworded my post better tobnot make it sound like advertisement.
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a c 86 K Overclocking
April 27, 2010 7:53:36 PM

Houndsteeth said:
Hi reaper23,

Yes, we are aware of the Corsair products, and no, it does not equal a custom cooling loop. It does use some good components, but by nature, it is a closed loop and has limited thermal capacity (IIRC, it uses a heater core fitted to a 120mm fan, and the fan can be set to two different speeds). Once you hit the thermal wall, your temperatures will creep upward until you have a boil-off. Your processor will be dead well before that point, though.

That is why it is always a good idea to have too much radiator in your loop rather than too little. In essence, unless you are willing to invest in a custom loop, or you can buy a pre-built kit that has a higher thermal capacity than your computer (which would be a bit more expensive than a custom loop), you are better off sticking to high-end air cooling.

Good luck with your H50. It is a good place to start getting your feet wet in water cooling without actually having to jump into building your own loop from scratch. But if you are expecting performance any better than high-end air cooling, you will be sorely disappointed with your results, since you can get the same or better performance for half the price from air cooling. But if it leads you into building your own custom loop, chalk up the expense to a good start to learning how to water cool.



The H50 Does Not use a heater core. It's a standard 120mm rad, specifically made for the H50 watercooling. Maybe you should know the difference between them before saying that Houndsteeth. I'm sure it's not the best rad, but it's FPI and flow rate is pretty good in comparison with real watercooling. What hurts the H50 is the teeny rad, weak integrated pump, and poor quality heatsink in comparison to real watercooling

The H50 is rather weak and if your not happy with temps you can use push/pull fans and redo your case airflow setup. If still not enough (seen it more than once) you sell the H50 on Ebay and then spend money on real watercooling.

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a c 86 K Overclocking
April 27, 2010 7:57:05 PM

reaper23 said:
Actually now there is a water cooling kit for CPU ONLY that is below $100 and it has great reviews on it . It's called the CORSAIR Cooling Hydro Series. Basically it's a closed-loop water cooling with a radiator and a 120 mm fan on it. I got one and just ordered one and i cant wait for it to arrive. :D  :D  :D 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

:hello: 



Thanks. Your input is worthless. You don't watercool, you have no experiance. You say your gonna get xx but don't even have it yet.

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April 27, 2010 8:59:09 PM

Conumdrum said:
Thanks. Your input is worthless. You don't watercool, you have no experiance. You say your gonna get xx but don't even have it yet.


i hate you but i love it when you bash on people.
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a b K Overclocking
April 27, 2010 10:16:41 PM

Quote:
Also I bought the h50 because I am only 17

So am I (almost 18). I'v been doing WCing since I was 16. And no, my parents don't pay for my PCs. I do. Yes, I do have a job, perhaps you should get one too. Btw, my first WCing loop used a aquarium pump (ViaAqua, ~$10) + decent block (GTX) off Ebay + DIY res + heatercore. Total was ~$100-120, which is only a little more than the H50, and yes, it did perform quite a lot better than my S1283 on my Q6600.
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April 27, 2010 11:26:31 PM

reaper23 said:
The only bad thing about air is the dust you gotta clean off the heatsink



i hope you realize that dust builds up on the radiator grills also so every once in a while you gotta take the fans off and clean the grills. i usually use a small tooth brush and brush the dust off of my rad. its not hard...>.>
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April 28, 2010 5:15:06 AM

Conumdrum said:
The H50 Does Not use a heater core. It's a standard 120mm rad, specifically made for the H50 watercooling. Maybe you should know the difference between them before saying that Houndsteeth. I'm sure it's not the best rad, but it's FPI and flow rate is pretty good in comparison with real watercooling. What hurts the H50 is the teeny rad, weak integrated pump, and poor quality heatsink in comparison to real watercooling

The H50 is rather weak and if your not happy with temps you can use push/pull fans and redo your case airflow setup. If still not enough (seen it more than once) you sell the H50 on Ebay and then spend money on real watercooling.


Conundrum,

For your information, I am very aware of what a heater core is, since I used them in some of my first water cooling builds many years back. And I was not speaking specifically of the H50, but of the other Corsair products I have had the privilege of working with that actually did use a heater core instead of a true water cooling radiator. Granted the H50 does use a radiator, but it is a closed loop that still doesn't have enough radiator for the loop to perform at its best. Instead, what we end up with is something that purports itself as water cooling when in reality it is no better than what you would get with a high end air cooler.

Why are you so bitter? Did someone take a leak in your Cheerios this morning? Come off your high horse and stop slapping these kids around every time they post something that isn't up to your "high" standard. Think for a minute, that if the adults on the forums you frequent had greeted your first enthusiastic posts with the vitriol you seem to reserve for the kids here, how quickly it would have dampened your enthusiasm. Your posts used to be instructional and informative, and now they seem to be tinged with jaded bitterness. Why not go out and enjoy the sunshine for a few days and see if we can get the old Conundrum back...Please!
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April 28, 2010 11:40:24 AM

i4yue said:
i hope you realize that dust builds up on the radiator grills also so every once in a while you gotta take the fans off and clean the grills. i usually use a small tooth brush and brush the dust off of my rad. its not hard...>.>


i forgot to mention that part to hahaha. It's not hard and if you have nothing else to do then yea. I usually use vacuum cleaner and some Q tips.
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April 28, 2010 12:51:57 PM

Compressed air is still the best for getting into those tight corners on a radiator. The fins are so delicate that I wouldn't even trust a q-tip. If you do have to get in on it with more than just compressed air, then a pitcher of water and a bucket will work wonders if you can't get your box anywhere near a tap. Just try to avoid denting the radiator fins too much, as it restricts air flow and reduces the effectiveness of the radiator.
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a c 86 K Overclocking
April 28, 2010 3:17:17 PM

I cleaned mine with compressed air. Got a cheapo 2 gallon compressor for car tires etc. I use it to blow the rads out. A can of air works okay too. Remember to shake the can once it gets cold, let it sit and warm up to keep the flow up. Otherwise you waste lots due to it getting cold and reducing pressure.


A vacuum isn't bad, use the brush part and be very gentle, it keeps the dust from flying everywhere.


Once a year I remove the rad, blow it out. And put in the sink to rinse it and then blow the outside dry, put in the sun to dry.

My rebuild ways;
http://www.overclockers.com/annual-water-cooling-cleani...
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a c 235 K Overclocking
December 12, 2010 3:15:05 PM

Best answer selected by 4ryan6.
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a c 235 K Overclocking
December 12, 2010 3:15:19 PM

This topic has been closed by 4ryan6
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