Bulk Ordering

yeah, i figured. was hoping for a little better "deal". OS is so expensive. makes it difficult to compete with prebuilt crap in the stores...thanks though.

Understood and agreed. You can go to a vendor like newegg and buy a "builders package" such as the one below. That is not cheap either. Really a matter of how big your operation is going to be....

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Good luck!

You can get a good deal on ebay, just don't expect them to work. The way I take care of things, I just work on whatever OS was on the PC when I work on it, but that is used stuff of course. I get some old P4 boxes with OEM stickers, I install XP, no cost to me, they get a valid licese, no laws broken.

You will not get a large discount unless you buy in the thousands, even site licenses are not that heavily discounted. For someone like an HP or Dell, they can get prices that are about 1/3rd of OEM retail. Although my info is from the XP days. Maybe Vista and 7 are more strict on prices.

Great info hang-the-9. thank you. So basically you are saying buy "cheap" pre-owned with already installed OS's, and just use them?

A word of caution, those are older (XP and Vista) machines with previously used licenses, not Win 7. Also, the OEM license is tied directly to the original hardware. Changing to new hardware is actually questionable if you read the fine print in the user agreement.

ahh, yes. OEM's are good for "1" mobo/hdd combo correct? Now, if you buy retail though, they are good for as many PC's as you can create correct? obviously if people are registering them from all around the state/country there would be flags, but for personal use i mean, you could build yourself a new computer every year and it would be good from my understanding.

Retail is still limited to one PC at a time. When you activate the license on one machine, you de-activate on another. In theory, you can do as you suggest for personal use, but not from a builder perspective.

yes exactly. they need to come up with a builder spec where you buy a merchant hard disk for say $1,000, and then charge like, $20 a KEY PASS so that people can compete with the crappy dell, hp, and (i cant believe im even admitting they are a company) E-machines. or even just a liscense the company can renew every year. Its a crying shame...people wonder why jobs aren't created.

You could always build with Linux and then let the buyer purchase their own Windows license....Not optimal, but it works (and works well).'

In your scenario (sort of like a OEM builder license), how many "licenses", and they would have to be unique, would your $1000 buy you? Also, keep in mind that the OEM license requires you, the builder, to provide support for the end users, not MS.

So, how big an operation are you projecting for this effort?

how big, as big as it would get. hopefully being as big (namewise) as an hp, dell, or even mac. as of now, its at ground stages. in theory, im sick of these big name companies throwing around weight and selling "budget" pc's that really dont hold their weight in paper...

I don't plan on competing with all of their lowend prices, however, mid ranged items should be absolutely no problem in not only beating performance wise, but price wise too (OS being my main concern). Parts i can even get manufacturer bulk deals (im rather sure of depending on product demand).

Im not familiar with linux, but i can be very quickly. I believe is incredibly easy to use. If i set up 1 Linux unit, could i copy not only the OS, but also system prefs as well to a load disc for faster reconstruction and installs?

also, would windows software (i.e. games) be compatible?

Sure you can clone easily. This is made especially easy if you go with a standard config in your product line. Check out Ubuntu. Quit popular, well supported, and very stable.

http://www.ubuntu.com/

Some Windows compatibility exists when you run WINE on Linux platforms. More info can be found here:

http://www.winehq.org/

That's right, what I was suggesting it to re-use the same OS and license on the same machine, not transfer it over to another one. You get a used P4 online, or from a friend, or from a corporate sale, use an OEM XP or whatever disk (only catch here is that you need to get an OEM disk compatible with the system and code), and you have a "new" system with a clean and legal OS setup.

Ok, so thats what i was looking at originally. for the WINE program, i believe it supports itunes correct? i have a person that might need a clean wipe, i would recommend ubuntu. as i said before, i need to update myself on at least the basics of linux for proper use recommendations. Also, i believe that ubunu looks appealing enough that most people wont complain unless they are hardcore gamers. Thank you COLGeek.

HANG**

So i think what you are saying is that i would have to use the same system? or is there a way to "refresh" the OS and re-use it again? idk, seems very technical and "illegit". Might not be illegal, but what exactly would you be doing to get the OS to run on new equipment?

Also, found this...not sure exactly what it is...

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=thi...

That's a governtment site license order, there is no way they can sell this to you legaly. It would be like buying a corporate volume license key from some ebay seller. That company looks a bit shady, the site looks and works like it was done by a 1st year web design student. Half the links I tried did not work, and the images did not display properly either.

As far are re-using the OS, you can't use it on a different system by MS license agreement, and you don't want to be re-selling grey or illegal system licenses. If a box you buy has an XP code on it, you can re-install XP on that system using that code. You cannot take that code and use it on another system. You can take a new purchased license for any OS and use it on that old system though with no issues. You just can't move OEM licenses from PC to PC, even if that old PC is scrap. That is one of the reasons OEM licenses are sold for much cheaper than full licenses.

This is a violation of the OEM license agreement, my friend. While it is certainly creative, it is a violation nonetheless. I wouldn't recommend taking this course of action (my lawyers would definitely steer me away from this method).

Re-using the same key on the PC it came with using an OEM disk is not a violation of anything. The license agreement states you can't install the OS on a different PC, there is nothing that states you can't re-install it on the computer again. It's the same thing as using a restore disk. If you say you can't re-install the OS on the same PC using the same license, that means that every time anyone uses a restore disk they are doing the wrong thing.

but with an OEM, you can't change any hardware...thats an issue. if it were possible to even just leave the HDD with the OS on it, and be able to change everything else, that would be so much better, as i could use a JBOD capable MoBo and increase HDD space. what a bummer...im going to go start writing my own OS and ill get it on the market for free in about never years. thanks for all the help guys, i really appreciate it! further chat is more than welcome, as i will most likely have many more questions in the future, but as for my original post, i believe i have my answer.

Then I misunderstood your message, hang-the-9. What was originally asked about was a way to get bulk licenses for new builds. The method suggested seemed to say to the OP that there might be a way to use old licenses to install an OS on your new rigs.

If you say that was not your intent, then I apologize. However, what has been posted here could imply just that. Reusing on the same hardware (motherboard) is indeed allowable.

However, to be perfectly clear, the OEM license is only valid with the hardware it was originally released with (motherboard). No argument there, right?

definately not. mobo has to be the same. and the ORIGINAL POST was just that, new builds. OEM's, then, are good for 1 mobo, with maybe the exception of a bad mobo that burns out, and a LOT of sympathy from MS. Retail allows a single user to reinstall multiple times, active for 1 pc at a time. Bulk or Volume Pricing is near negligable. And if you want to compete with big companies legally, you need to be sleeping with someone from MS.

Correct about the original PC only. What I was suggesting was that instead of building brand new PCs thus needing to buy a pricy new license, the OP get some used computers that already have an OEM key assigned to them, and build those out using the original OS, just as a fresh setup.

I do this all the time for craigslist and friends. I pick up a bunch of decent 3 gig P4 systems, stick 2 gig of RAM in them, maybe use a newer drive if needed, re-install the OS and drivers, and the thing runs as good as many newer computers.

Undestood, my friend. Recycles the tech and fun ripping into the guts of those old rigs!

That pretty much sums it up, the cheapest way to go is an OEM license for a new system. I was just offerning an alternate way to that, but then you can't use new systems. Don't forget the hardware they buy is probably sourced directly from the manufacturer where a regular purchaser (you) will need to go through resellers which also adds more cost.

Back in the day when Dell, Gateway, HP got started all this was just getting going, so they were all pretty much at equal footing. Now that the big makers can buy 100,000 drives at one time, it's a lot harder to break into new PC sales unless it's a local thing.

Or, you go the boutique computer route.....and offer something the big boys can't. Even that is VERY hard to break into. Many have tried and failed. I wish you, casualbuilder, the very best of luck!

Then the problem with THAT is that people would say it's over-priced junk that you can build yourself for cheaper. Alienware and such as an example. And people like us on this forum are the ones that call it over-priced junk that you can build yourself cheaper hehe.

Forget PCs, start raising Llamas or something   Now that we turned this thread into at least a 40% angle from what it started at.

Actually I think going the used PC route is the best way for a low-volume guy to work on. Then you can work on getting the people you sell to upgrades, even used upgrades. You can pick up cheap dual-cores now also. So you get a P4 system for 20-30 in bulk, build it out, sell for $80, then a bit down the line you contact your mailing list of customers and ask "so I got this dual-core PC in, do you want to upgrade your system with a partial trade-in?". I have sold at least 4 upgrades this way, and working on getting two newer laptops currently into the hands of some of my contacts. Plus if you offer good service and value, and explain things well, you have tons of references which can lead to more sales as they tell friends and relatives about this greath cheap PC they got from you.

I have an old friend that would say the same thing about used cars. Way more money to be made with used cars (buy cheap, clean up, and sell for a profit) than with new cars (no depreciation to take advantage of yet).

Seems appripo here....

wow...great insights guys. sorry i wasnt on last night to through fuel on the fire. Looks like i have stepped into a large pile of coorporate competition. Just starting off, i am gonna look into doing mostly system upgrades and hdd cleaning, get my name out there, as well as new builds for people who are interested in getting a solid built pc. I know that market is very hard to break, but the other fact of the matter is, factory installed hardware usually breaks faster (from my experience). I dont know how many people buy a new "walmart" computer every 1-3 years, where as a personally build pc could potentially last up to 10 years if taken care of. Not that you guys DONT know this, but its a playing chip i intend to use very regularly. That is one thing DELL and bigger companies cannot compete with. Close, personal, customer service and quality. Anyways, thanks for some ideas guys, this has been one of the funnest forum threads i've started/interacted with.

I will, however, turn our thread to a different angle if you guys are willing to hang on. I have recently undated Adobe FLASH, and now some if not all my facebook apps will not load appropriately. the adobe sign is in the top left of the app screen, but everything else is pure white. is there something i am missing? Kinda happened out of the blue, not sure why...

Specs? OS version? Browser?

Windows7
Explorer & Mozilla

Specs:
Phenom IIx4 955BE (4.0GHz)
ASUS Sabertooth 990fx
Kingston HYPER X Black Edition 8GB (2x4)
Hitachi 1.5Tb HDD 7200RPM 64Mb Cache
ASUS GTX 560 (950MHz)
Zalman 9900s hsf
Cooler Master HAF X
Corsair HX750W PSU

Go into Control Panel/Programs and Features and uninstall Flash Player. Restart system afterward. Then to Adobe.com and download and install the latest Flash Player. Good luck!

ok. ty very much.

While i have you on here, are you good with OC procedures and possibly temp troubleshooting?

I am OK in terms of OC stuff. But, I recommend you start here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/258573-29-black-editi...

question about OC'ing this 955BE. I recently purchased it, but my temps are getting to a very hot level, where i can't even see it cap out before i close Prime95. I hav eno idea why, as my aftermarket cooler is a Zalman 9900. Idle temps are hovering around 36c...not great imo either, but i would think that it should keep my cpu temps running well within its means of 62c or less. i have this cpu OC'd to 4.0GHz, and can't see why i am having a problem. Previously ran a 555BE at 4.35GHz and it was running 48c at load. I know there is a huge difference with watts used, but am i silly in thinking my cooler should have troubles keeping this cpu under control?

Your HSF, if mounted properly, should have no problem colling your CPU. Keep in ming that OCing is a bit of a crap shoot and not all CPUs are created equally. SOme will crank it up to almost obscene levels, while others don't do so well. Also, there are lots of system specific issues to take into account (heat, power, airflow, etc) that are unique to each situation.

Your idle temps are actually ok. Depends on the heat/humidity of your room and airflow.

BTW, are you OCing your memory? If so, I suggest you drop your memory back to stock speeds and only mess with OCing your CPU and GPU. OCing memory is of questionable value anyway and can lead to all sorts of system stability problems. Just something to think about.

thanks. the RAM is measured for 1600 (although it is said that 1333 is the actual speed). i have it running at 1444. i can drop it to 1063 (i think), and a side note, my GPU is MASSIVELY OC'd. stock speeds are 810MHz on my ASUS card...950 is stable right now. I would hate to say that this card is a lemon in terms of OC'ing, but if that is what you are saying, then i will need to downclock it. bummer. Also, i am using Arctic Silver MX-2 thermal grease. not the most expensive, but what i prefer for performance rice comparison. Im not sure why my cpu is getting so hot still, as they are approaching 90c at full load. just doesnt seem right to me. Ill do some more research and see what i find. could be something stupid i missed.

1333 is fine (that is the "standard" speed. Rating and speed are not the same things. I would consider clocking back my GPU to stock to see how that affects the overall system (like the heat generated by the CPU).

You could also have a faulty temp sensor for your CPU.

ok, faulty temp sensor would explain it not registering a "max" temp under load? i can see if the cpu is as hot as it is saying by placing my hand near it correct? and i dont believe the gpu is causing any issues with the cpu, as it runs under max load at 53c.

Sure, you can touch it. Keep in mind that 100C is 212F and that is when water boils. 90C will be HOT! Be careful.

yeah, ill do the whole "close to" scan first, and if it seems like there isnt a lot of hot air coming off of it, i will try to touch it. I am hoping it is either a faulty cpu, or just a mis-reading from CoreTemp. Prime95 didn't seem to have any issues running, nor did anything happen as far as bsod or a restart...i would think that something like that would have happened if the cpu was actually that hot, no?

Also, if the system gets too hot (like to unsafe levels), it will throttle back (or even shut down). I assume you are running Cool and Quiet (enabled in BIOS). If not, you should.

Sounds to me that you are actually ok, as is.

i am not running cool and quiet, but i will enable it. i think that was causing my hsf to run at lower rpm's though

That isn't a problem. The PWM function on the fan will spin up/down as needed to keep things safely cooled. CnQ is a good thing in the vast majority of cases....

I did not see anybody answer this, but in Wine for any Linux distro, you cannot use iTunes. It has been attempted and won't work. The thing about going mainstream with Linux like this is that people have to adapt. They have to change and learn to use their new OS. Then there is the "I just saw this app my friend recommended, but it won't work on Linux!" deal.
No hating on Linux there though. It is good for personal use or someone who wants to see it and use it. Currently, Ubuntu Linux is all that I use, and I have never had one reason to go over to Windows which can be run on the mac (15 feet away; it is just for school too, so no documents from my computer have to go over to the mac).
Good Luck

thanks corry

Best answer selected by mousemonkey.

This topic has been closed by Mousemonkey