Higher End Video Card vs Older Processor.. A waste ?

[scsouders]

I have a Dell Dimension 8400
Single Core P4 3.2 ghz w HT (Is turned On)
3 Gigs of Mem
Nvidia 8600 GT 256mb
320GB Sata w/16mb cache
PC Power and Power and Cooling 500 watt PS with single +12 Volt rail 35 amp (2) 6pin, (1) 8 pin
XP Pro 32 bit


QUESTION:
I want to get a newer video card. Right now, I am considering a Nvidia 9800 GT. I would like something bigger but am wondering if Id be wasting my money. If I buy a higher end card , will my single core 3.2 processor keep the higher end cards performance limited.....


Games I play:

COD4
COD WaW
BF2
BF2142




Hopefully BF1943 later this year and COD Modern Warfare 2 as well.

Yes, Id like to buy a new computer , but maybe in a year.

 

[gkay09]

Well partly yes...u r correct...at little higher resolutions, the CPU will bottleneck the graphics card, so u will see drop in frames more often...
Well the 9800GT or the ATI 4830 is a gud option, don get any higher than tis...sure ur CPU will bottleneck other cards...
And ur powersupply is a very gud one, which can easily power the graphics card...

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

The single best increase in performance a gamer can upgrade is his gpu. A higher end gpu and a low end cpu is better than a higher end cpu and a low end gpu. Even if youre "bottlenecked" by your cpu, a better gpu may give you better results than a lower gpu+lower cpu. I dont know the cpu demands for your games, and thats what you really need to concentrate on here, as theres just no way youll balance your rig with that cpu. Having a better gpu will benefit you, but to what degree does depend on your games. For 150US, the 4870 has to be considered, as by even next year, itll be at least a midrange product for your new rig, and youll benefit from it, unless you also plan to upgrade your gpu at that time as well

 

[gkay09]

The single best increase in performance a gamer can upgrade is his gpu. A higher end gpu and a low end cpu is better than a higher end cpu and a low end gpu. Even if youre "bottlenecked" by your cpu, a better gpu may give you better results than a lower gpu+lower cpu. I dont know the cpu demands for your games, and thats what you really need to concentrate on here, as theres just no way youll balance your rig with that cpu. Having a better gpu will benefit you, but to what degree does depend on your games. For 150US, the 4870 has to be considered, as by even next year, itll be at least a midrange product for your new rig, and youll benefit from it, unless you also plan to upgrade your gpu at that time as well

Well partly I disagree going wit the 4870 because for nw he can get the ATI 4830, which by no means is a weaker card....and later when he upgrades his PC, he can add one more 4830 in crossfire, which will be powerful than a single 4870...
When he plans to upgrade am sure there will be better cards...and simply spending double the money on the card nw doesnt make sense...

 

[gkay09]

U can get a 4830 nw for abt $90 abt $75 less than a 4870...and te 4830 will be able to play those games at gud resolutions too...

 

[Kraynor]

I disagree going wit the 4870 because for nw he can get the ATI 4830, which by no means is a weaker card...

Uhm... yes it is, and buy a dictionary. Honestly, it's easier to type and read english than it is to encrypt and decrypt that odd language you're using.

Anyway, jaydeejohn was right in saying the best upgrade you can do is having a big graphics card. ATI 4870 gets my vote too. The only thing you want to make sure of is that your motherboard has the required PCI-E slot for the card. It doesn't matter if it isn't PCI-E 2.0, it'll still work, it'll just have less bandwidth to play with.

This time next year the 4870 will still be a very good card, so if you decide to get a new CPU (which means you really should get a new motherboard and RAM with it, because Pentium 4 is so 2-generations-ago)

As far as your PSU goes it should be fine with a 4870, PC Power & Cooling make very high quality PSUs, some of the best in fact, and shouldn't have a problem delivering the juice to get your frame rates rocking.

 

[gkay09]

Uhm... yes it is, and buy a dictionary. Honestly, it's easier to type and read english than it is to encrypt and decrypt that odd language you're using.

Well no one here asked for an english class
And I think this is not a forum for "How to write in proper Eng"...Its jus a technical forum and for giving suggestions, i don think u have to give it in very accurate language...
So rather than commenting on how others write, comment on what is required...

 

[mi1ez]

Go with the 4870 as it's one less thing to get when you do your next upgrade. If you always try to match what you've already got performancewise, you'll never feel like you're getting anywhere.

+1 for proper typing!

 

[gkay09]

Go with the 4870 as it's one less thing to get when you do your next upgrade. If you always try to match what you've already got performancewise, you'll never feel like you're getting anywhere.

+1 for proper typing!

Ohhh... come on...dont start it all over again...
hereafter will type properly
Its just that I dint like the way he said...

 

[jitpublisher]

At $150, a 4870 is tough not to buy, that is simply excellent value/performance.
The 4830 would do your system fine for now, but in 6 months you are going to want to upgrade the CPU to something better, and then the 4830 is going to be a little on the weak side. You'll be looking at another GPU purchase.
I'd say if you have the money, get the faster card. If you are on a tight budget, and the rig you have must last you another year, get the 4830.

Correct spelling and grammer go a long ways to making a persons opinion or point look valid, it doesn't have to be perfect, but it needs to be better than this. It makes the impression of whether you are experienced and educated, or an uneducated, ignorant buffoon.
Yeah, it makes a difference, so lets try a little harder!

 

[Proximon]

The advice for a 4870 is good, but there is actually a better deal right now dollar-to-framerate. Also, I have the arrogance to believe I can explain things a bit clearer (AND in better English.)

People think that you hit a performance wall when a CPU is a lot older than a GPU. They also think the opposite holds true, and that, for instance, upgrading an old CPU to an overclocked i7 will have no impact on games if your video card is a TNT2 Ultra.

It's much better to think of the two parts as what they are, processors. They both contribute to frame rate and either one can pick up some of the slack left by the other.

So, what happens looks more like a curve. As you go up you'll get diminishing returns certainly, and eventually you might be spending $500 for 5 FPS. The part that will be effected most by your CPU is MINIMUM framerate. The bits of the game that really choke down for you may still do so, although hopefully a bit less.

Currently, the GTX 260 core 216 is a better deal than the 4870. The performance is very much the same, and the 4870 is supposed to come down a bit more, but for now the Nvidia product wins:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150329
XFX has a good, even the best, warranty and support.

Probably, you'll only get a small performance boost over a 9800GT in some titles. However, you'll have a card that can migrate to the new system you'll have to get soon.

Your processor was new during Christmas of 2003. The best video cards then were the FX 5000 series, which were really awful.

 

[Wisecracker]

Uhm... yes it is, and buy a dictionary.

+1

And OP, get the Radeon HD 4870 if it is within your budget.

 

[gamerk316]

...you want to run a 4870 with a single core P4? Don't expect any increases in performance, as I'm calling a major CPU bottleneck here.

 

[scsouders]

The 4870 is also massive looking as well as needing over a 500 watt PS.

The Dimension 8400 case is on the medium to smaller range. The 8600 GT I have now is about 7 Inches deep, at around 9 inches I just pass below the SATA connector going into the board.

I do have a another few inches beyond that possibly. I am also considering the 9800 GTX, not really sure I want to spend much more on a card for that computer.

The GTX 260 requires at least a 500 watt PS, which I have but wants a 36 amp rail to my 35.

I also have the older PCIe x16 1.0 format, not the newer 2.0 , So that too will decrease the specs od the card such as bandwith.


I do appreciate everyones input , English or not.


Anymore input still welcomed, will have another week before I can make the purchase.

 

[gamerk316]

PCI 2.0 doesn't matter for the most part, although I would like to see a comparison using a 295GTX...

I still think the P4 is going to (and possibly is) limiting the GPU. If you go with a 4870, dont be surprised if your performance is less then what others here get.

 

[wingmaster]

Don't worry about having only PCI-E1.0 thats not going to make any difference on any games right now so don't let that be the deciding factor for you. Just look back in the past at AGP x2,x4,x8. Using the same graphics card in the newer slot bought you nothing in performance, its the same thing now it will be nice and benefit down the road some though.

 

[jonpaul37]

Here's a little example for you. I tested almost EXACTLY what you're questioning. Look at my Sig below, that is currently what i have in my Rig right now that i am using to relay this message.

I took the 8400 CPU out and replaced with a Pentium 4 630 3.0Ghz CPU and the results were ASTONISHING! I also had an extra ATI x1300 card lying around so i decided to test with that as well and here's as goes... (keep in mind that the only components that changed in this rig during this testing phase is the CPU and VID CARD, everything else stayed the same...)

E8400/4870 = average of 101 FPS @ MAX settings in WOW
Pentium 4/4870 = average of 25 FPS @ MAX settings in WOW
E8400/x1300 = average of 55 FPS @ MAX settings in WOW
Pentium 4/x1300 = average of 15 FPS @ MAX settings in WOW

I did not test any other games.

In my opinion, the best bet would be to buy the best card you can afford, then when it comes time to get a new rig, you can just bring that card over to the new rig and use it for either XFire or SLI... options here would be a 4870 1GB or a 260 core 216, both are great cards...

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

TY, Jonpaul37, and its exactly as Id thought, but wasnt sure. The best gpu is always the way to go for gaming. Looking at Jonpauls findings, its only about 70% or so better using a better card. It wont be as high a difference as that, but it will be a known difference. It could possibly mean the difference of playable fps, or, better eyecandy. Oh yes, the G260/216/namemeonemoretimebaaaaby edition is also a good buy, he (the OP) mentioned ATI tho

 

[scsouders]

You took out the Core 2 Duo processor and installed a Single core 3.0...I thought they were a different class of processors and chipset ?


And you are saying that the CPU changed the overall FPS by 40 or more using the same card. So the CPU processor is bottlenecking the GPU according to your findings.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

And using a lessor gpu wont stop the "bottleneck", itll give you less perf is all, plus the cpu slow down. Id guess youd see 30% better perf with a 4870 vs a 4830, even with your cpu. It usuallyl stays consistant. Balancing a system is great if you can afford it

 

[gamerk316]

After seeing Jonpaul37's stats below, going with a more beefy CPU is the way to go:

E8400/4870 = average of 101 FPS @ MAX settings in WOW
Pentium 4/4870 = average of 25 FPS @ MAX settings in WOW
E8400/x1300 = average of 55 FPS @ MAX settings in WOW
Pentium 4/x1300 = average of 15 FPS @ MAX settings in WOW

As the 8600GT is better than the x1300 (by quite a bit), he could potentially double his fps by upgrading his CPU. Although the card won't be enough for CoD:WaW, anything else he puts in won't be either, due to the P4.

This is an obvious CPU upgrade. Anyone who says otherwise needs their brain examined by a doctor. I'd take 55 FPS with a E8400/x1300 over 25 FPS with a P4/4870 any day of the week.

 

[Wisecracker]

After seeing Jonpaul37's stats below, going with a more beefy CPU is the way to go:
~~~~

This is an obvious CPU upgrade. Anyone who says otherwise needs their brain examined by a doctor. I'd take 55 FPS with a E8400/x1300 over 25 FPS with a P4/4870 any day of the week.

Maybe you should ask your doctor how your brain would operate an e8400 on a Dell Dimension 8400 with an Intel 925 chipset.


To the OP: Total system power at load with either the HD4870 or GTX260 will be in the 280-300w range. IIRC a PCIe Gen1 slot itself will provide around 35w (Gen2 75w) so the power connectors to the vid card will have to push around 10 amps to the video card. If the card is undervolted it's not a big deal as long as it will work in your box.

The bottom line in all of this - buy the most card you can for your budget understanding that it will be moved to your new build.

btw - my HD4870 is around 9 7/16 inches. I believe the GTX260 is a touch over 10 1/2 inches.

 

[gamerk316]

My point is, with new cards ready to be released, it makes no sense to pay for one only a few months prior to a price drop. Heck, ATI wants to cut prices on the 4870 as we speak (although it seems individual manufactures don't like that plan...)

Besides, carring over a 8600 GT to a new build by itself would give a FPS jump, but getting a 4870 now would do next to nothing. Fix the CPU first, and then decide where to go on graphics.

 

[scsouders]

How about this, Since I cant make a big PC purchase right now...Ive seen some CPU upgrades such as the P4 3.6 ghz Intel 660 or even a 670 3.8ghz floating around for 100 bucks...would that help me any?

Or would any single core processor not help ? I am running my 3.2 in Hyper Thread mode..2 virtual processors.

 

[gamerk316]

How about this, Since I cant make a big PC purchase right now...Ive seen some CPU upgrades such as the P4 3.6 ghz Intel 660 or even a 670 3.8ghz floating around for 100 bucks...would that help me any?

Or would any single core processor not help ? I am running my 3.2 in Hyper Thread mode..2 virtual processors.

Even a Pentium D (two pentium 4's) wouldn't be much help for you at this point. They simply can't feed the GPU to its potential.

If you can't afford a new PC, I'd recommend just sitting on what you have in the meantime. Save up for a cheap Duo/Quad system (or wait for i5 to come out), and then do a re-build.