Someone said this is bad, and why. do you concur ?

Zonian18

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Case:
ABS Aplus ATX Full Tower Computer Case – Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811215009
$100

Power Supply:
Ultra X3 600watt Power Supply – Retail
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2974472&CatId=1483
$100

Motherboard:
ASUS P5Q-E LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard – Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131296
$145

CPU:
Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 3.16GHz Dual-Core Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115036
$188

CPU COOLER :
Noctua NH-U12P 120mm SSO CPU Cooler – Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608002
$60

Memory:
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 1066 Memory - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166
$55

Video Card:
EVGA GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 896MB Video Card – Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130398
$248

Sound Card:

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Sound Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102007
$55

CD/DVD Drives:
SAMSUNG Black 2MB Cache SATA DVD Burner with LightScribe - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151173
$29 x 2 = 58

HDD:
Western Digital 500GB 7200 RPM HDD – OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136320
$70 x 2 = 140

Card Reader:
SABRENT 68-in-1 USB 2.0 Internal Card Reader - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820300608
$14

Thermal Compound:

MASSCOOL G751 Shin-Etsu Thermal Compound - Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835150080
$3 x2 = 6

I havn't build a computer in years, so i'm behind the times a bit. but i'm trying to build a new gaming rig with the relatively latest technology , for the lowest i can.

i posted this on another forums and i got some good replys, and then this one guy came in and said it doesnt make any sense. below is his quote

Nothing in your build makes sense. You are buying a top end dual but are buying memory for overclocking. The bandwidth bottleneck for C2Duo systems is between the NB and the CPU itself. At 1333FSB you are talking about 10.6Gb/s to the CPU, and 12.6Gb/s to the system memory.

http://images.hardwarecanucks.com/image/eldonko/ASRockP45Review/Photos/p45_Block-Diagram.jpg

Synchronous vs Asynchronous does not kill performance for the C2Duo like it used to on the P4. The memory you are buying is spec'ed for 2.1v The standard for DDR2 is 1.8v You could just overclock the DDR2-800 yourself.

Your $60 cooler comes with thermal paste, plus you aren't overclocking, or you never really mentioned it, nor did you really buy any of the common overclocking CPU's. Did you even take a close look at anything you bought?

The GTX 260 is fine if thats your price range. It depends on your resolution and what games you want to play.

He hasn't replyed back , but i'm trying to understand what he means exactly. Says it doenst make sense but doesnt offer solutions , least not that i can tell.

Anyone know what is wrong with my build ? How to improve it without costing more money etc ? I believe the person i quoted is trying to say that my memory and CPU arnt going to go great or something unless i overclock it ?

Any help on making sense out of this is much appreciated. Thank you
 

jonpaul37

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what he is saying is get DDR2 800 PC6400 memory to go with that CPU and NOT the DDR2 1066 PC8500 memory which would be overkill, the DDR2 800 PC6400 memory will be cheaper as well... i agree with him, but i would have explained it a little nicer, apparently he expects you to know everything...
 

Kaldor

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Power Supply:
Ultra X3 600watt Power Supply – Retail
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2974472&CatId=1483
$100

These PSUs are pretty much junk. For $100 you can buy either a 750 watt Corsair or PC Power and Cooling. Both are FAR better PSUs. Remember the PSU is one of the major components of your PC. Its its crap everything else is going to have issues.

Links:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703009 - PCP&C: slightly louder, very good performance
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006 - Corsair: better looking and quieter

Memory:
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 1066 Memory - Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166
$55

DDR2 1006 is unneeded. This memory runs at 2.0V - 2.1V which basically makes it nothing more than overclocked DDR2 800 which runs at 1.8V. Quality DDR2 800 will clock up to 1066 with no issues. I prefer Mushkin or Corsair.

Links:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146731 - Mushkin: $26 after MIR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184 - Corsair: $25 after MIR

Sound Card:
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Sound Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102007
$55

Waste of money. Chances are the on mobo sound card sounds just as good as this. My advise is to run the onboard sound, and if you think it sounds that bad buy something else. Stay away from Creative though. Buy an Auzentech or ASUS to avoid the crap drivers Creative has today. Creative is not nearly as good a company as they were 5 years ago.

Rest of the build looks fine.

Anything else?
 
The build looks pretty good.

I think one of the things the person who replied to your post was trying to say is that you really don't need DDR2 1066 RAM. DDR2 800 RAM that runs at 1.8v with tight timings is really all you need. Here's a couple very nice DDR2 800 RAM kits:

mushkin 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146731 $45.99 - $20.00 MIR

or

G.SKILL PI Black 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231209 $49.99

The GTX 260 core 216 GPU is nice, but the motherboard you chose supports crossfire (ATI GPU's) not SLI (Nvidia GPU's). You might want to consider the 4870 1GB card if you think you'll ever want to add another GPU in the future.

SAPPHIRE 100259-1GL Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102801 $239.99 - $15.00 MIR

I don't know how much better that sound card will be than the on-board chip. I'd give the on-board sound a try first. You can always add the sound card later if you feel like you need to.

For about the same price you can get a faster drive with 140GB more capacity:

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
http://search.zipzoomfly.com/?Key=wd6400aaks&Category=00&x=0&y=0 $68.99

You did a pretty good job putting the build together. Don't let that one bad review get you down.
 

Zonian18

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Awesome guys thank you so much for the speedy input.

Few more questions if you dont mind.

1.) since the memory sticks you suggested are 2 sticks for 4 gigs. would it be a worthy investment to get 2 more ? for a total of 8 gigs. I recall reading a document from Corsair actually about how it makes a difference with Vista 64bit (which i plan to get)

here is the link. unless i'm not understanding the info correctly.
http://www.corsair.com/_appnotes/AN811_Gaming_Performance%20Analysis_6GB_vs_3GB.PDF

2.) The PSU's you suggested are indeed good, but i would really much rather prefer a modular one. Last PC i build is a giant cluster mess inside and i really hate it. I would love to take my time with this new build and do proper cabling etc, and being able to use modular PSU's is such a pleasure when doing so.

3.) i'll take out the soundcard, and thanks for the tips on better ones !

4.) The memory ddr2-800 is what i will switch to, but since my CPU is 1333FSB, would i have to overclock it 1600FSB in order meet the memory at a 1:1 timing ratio ? if i understand it correctly the memory that would match the current processor 1333fsb is DDR2-667. This is where i got confused on the memory type to pick because everyone is saying 800 for my CPU, but i figured we'll why not 1066 if were not sticking to the 1:1 ratio.
I hope that made sense =P
 

Zonian18

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In response to Shortstuff_MT

the reason i choose the HDD's i picked are because they are 32mb cache.
i read that if you have two 32mb cache HDD's in raid 0, the performance is right under the very pricey 10,000 rpm Raptor drives.

So i figured if i'm going to get 2 drives, might as we'll put them in raid-0 with 32mb cache. Unless that is just a giant lie =), again i'm going on the word of others

/thanks again for all the responses. i love this forums already

EDIT: - just reread what you said. you said the link u provided is a faster drive. i'm not sure i understand how though. there both 7200rpm. but the one i have has more cache, which i figured would be better performance etc.
 

jonpaul37

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you won't need 8GB of memory really, it's overkill as well.

PLEASE don't disregard the PSU thing, a bad PSU can make your experience a horrible one either in the immediate future, or a year down the road, if you are investing money into this machine, make SURE it has a decent Power Supply, i cannot stress that enough...
 
8GB of RAM isn't really needed, but at the current price you might as well pick up 8GB if you want. I currently run 4GB and have really been considering bumping up to 8GB just because of the low prices. The only downside I can see is that it's harder on the motherboard to have all the RAM slots filled, but it shouldn't be a big deal. You might just have to bump up the voltage on the RAM and northbridge a notch.

There will be memory multiplier you can choose that will allow you to run your DDR2 800 RAM at full speed even without overclocking the processor. You might want to read up on overclocking, however. The E8500 is a great processor and getting 3.8GHz (9.5 x 400) shouldn't be a problem. That way you'll be running at a 1:1 ratio.

The reason people usually suggest DDR2 800 RAM is because DDR2 800 with tight timings (4-4-4-12) is essentially the same speed as DDR2 1066 RAM at 5-5-5-15 timings. The only time DDR2 1066 RAM is needed is for extreme (over 1600MHz FSB) overclocking. Even then, quality DDR2 800 RAM kits like the ones I posted above will easily overclock since they run at low voltage.
 

Zonian18

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Dont worry i wont disregard the PSU thing, i just would really prefer a modular cabling one. or is that going to cost too much ? trying to stick with a PSU that is 600watt and above
 
The HD cache has little to no effect on the speed of the HD. The 640GB drives have higher density than the 500GB models. Data density has much more impact on drive speed than cache. You can't base your decision off the drive RPM alone. Here's a good article that compares quite a few different models:

http://techreport.com/articles.x/14380/1

If you want the best of both worlds pick up the black edition of the 640GB drive since it also has a 32MB cache.

Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319 $84.99
 

Jim_L9

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With the 1333 FSB the memory would normally run at 666 MHz. The FSB is quad pumped (333X4) and the memory is double pumped (333X2) unless you play with the memory multipliers. It is usually better to leave the memory at the standard 1:1 ratio, which means 666 (667) at your 1333 FSB.
 
Not all Ultra X3 power supplies are crap - but you happened to pick one that is: HardOCP Ultra X3 600w review
Go with one of the PSUs recommended above. Add the Corsair TX650 $99 (plus $20 rebate) as a recommended PSU.

Using DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) is not a failure - it's just not necessary to get a well balanced system.
The (PC2 8500) rating stands for bandwidth of a single stick or 8.5Gb/s. In dual channel mode 2 sticks = 17.0Gb/s bandwidth.
The CPU/Northbridge link is 10.6Gb/s at stock 1333FSB and when OC'd to 3.8Ghz (1600FSB) the bandwidth is 12.8Gb/s.
DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) is 6.4Gb/s in single channel and 12.8Gb/s in dual channel mode. So DDR2 800 (PC2-6400) in dual channel mode (12.8Gb/s) has enough bandwidth to service an OC'd 3.8Ghz CPU (12.8Gb/s).

There is a small advantage that 1066 might have over 800 if both are operating at the same CAS/Latency (CAS5 for example). But the small advantage is usually not really worth the increased cost of 1066 low latency RAM.
 

Zonian18

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thanks again for all the input guys

I plan to OC my e8500 to 3.8ghz so that it is 1:1 with ddr2-800 memory.

is the CPU cooler that i linked sufficient ?

http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2199

i was using this as a guide for how loud and well it performs and the one i picked lands right where i like it =)

just not sure how that will effect it if i OC to 3.8ghz

Oh and WR2 - to see if i understand the 1:1 timing, that would be the 12.8Gb/s bandwith of the 1600fsb 3.8ghz CPU with the 12.8Gb/s PC2-6400 right ?

which would be the same as me sticking with 1333fsb at 10.6Gb/s 3.16ghz CPU with the memory at PC2-5300 which would equal 10.6Gb/s to the NB.

so both of those are 1:1 timing, but the OC'ed one is...well overclocked..thus performing better.

i hope thats how it works because it now makes sense to me lol.
 

Zonian18

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http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136283

would that be even better than the 640gig since its 750gig , = higher density ?

only 4 dollars more.

also , should i bother to raid 0 these ? if so then i'll jump back down to the least expensive one and raid 0 that to still stay within budget


EDIT - anyone know how to change the timezone cause its saying i posted this at 10:54 PM , but its only 4:54 EST my time. i cant find any settings to do that under my profile
 

nocteratus

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For the card reader I suggest this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820132020

I have it and it works perfectly with SDHC up to 32Gb, plus you have front audio, front esata, 1 front firewire and 3 front USB.

Like the others, change the PSU get a PC power and cooling or a Corsair.
you don't really need 1066mhz ddr2, go with ddr2-800mhz less expensive and you won't get better performance with 1066mhz RAM. better look for 4-4-4-12 timing.

as for the creative sound card, you don't really need it, at least try the onboard sound first.

for the HDD get a WD 640Gb, better performance.

For the video card. you're better with a hd4870 1Gb since you have a xfire MB, this mean you can add another 48701Gb later and have 2 video card for better performance.

For the thermal paste you're better with AS5 or MX-2.
as5: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007
mx-2: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186020
 

B-Unit

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Heheh not quite, just because its bigger doesnt equal higher density. the 750GB drive has the same density as the 500GB, it has 3 instead of 2 250GB platters.
 

Zonian18

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is G.Skill a wise investment though over Corsair ? or is it known enough that i shouldnt have any issues getting that memory ?

Also, i was thinking about me over clocking the CPU to 1600FSB in order to match the DDR2-800 at a 1:1 timing ratio, but to be honest i've never OC'ed before. I'm a computer savvy enough person and intelligent enough to be able to read up a whole lot on how to do it etc.,

but up to 3.8ghz seems a lil scary to me lol. not sure if my CPU Cooler could handle it ? or if i would have to go to water cooling.

would it be better to just let it sit at default 1333fsb with ddr2-800
or lower the memory down to ddr2-667 , or only OC it by a little bit, which i guess there are ranges to shoot for ? from 3.16ghz to 3.4ghz CPU with memory at...well shoot i dont know what the memory would have to be at that FSB, but i know lower than 800.
 

Akebono 98

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Power supply: +1 on the Corsair HX-620 power supply. Corsair's TX 650 might be simpler because it has a single 12V rail, but it is not modular. Therefore, because you would like modularity, go with the HX version instead (though it has 3 12V power rails). PC Power & Cooling is great too, but again, not modular. I myself use the PC P&C Silencer 610 and it is perfect (I prefer one single 12 V rail)--everything is zip tied at the bottom side of my case and I don't mind the extra bulk there because it doesn't interfere with airflow anyways. I also don't have a clear side panel so interior looks don't matter as much.

RAM: go with the Corsair C4DHX version if you don't mind spending the extra cash. Tighter timings than the C5 variants and it has the better heat sink. They are apparently Dominator modules that didn't make the grade at the factory, so they would probably have better OC headroom. I.e. you will probably want to OC higher later on.

Hard drive: B-unit is right on--it is density per platter that matters, and the WD Black 640 GB has the higher density (160 GB/platter side) compared to the 500 GB version and the 750 GB version (check out the densities per platter on the WD website). Only the 1 TB version has higher platter density (166 GB / platter side). Therefore, if speed is the concern, go with the 640 unless you want to spend extra for 1 TB.

CPU cooling: your Noctua is fine. However, if cost is a consideration, you might consider the direct touch models which are more efficient at lower cost, e.g. Xigmatek S1283 and Sunbeam Core Contact Freezer 4.
 

Akebono 98

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G.Skill is great value for the money--cheaper than Corsair. When running at the same speed, memory will be the same. The difference would be which RAM module has the higher OC limit. If you want to save money, go with G.Skill. It doesn't hurt to have some extra headroom for later OC. With your setup, the issue with going beyond DDR2-800 is really if you want to use a memory divider higher than 1:1. Even with a FSB of 450 MHz, your RAM is only running at DDR2-900, which would be feasible with rated DDR2-800. G.Skill's DDR2-1066 would give you the headroom to try maybe 1.2 or 1.25 memory multiples later on.

You should have no issues with a 1600 FSB on your E8500. If you buy in the near future, you will probably get the E0 stepping which is better for OC than the C0 version. In addition, your Noctua cooler would be more than sufficient and you won't need water cooling for 3.8 GHz. Now if you wanted 5 GHz, that's a different story...

Also regarding OC, if you're not going to OC, then don't bother with an aftermarket cooler. The stock one is fine. Maybe what you could do is build the rig first and run it stock, then OC later. Only downside is that when you do that, you will want to put in a heatsink that requires you to mount a backplate, in which case you will have to take out the mobo to do that, which is a pain once you've put it all together nicely. If it were me, I would just install the big cooler up front to save the hassle, run it at stock for a while, then push the OC limit when you feel more comfortable.
 

topper743

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Consider the e8400 over the e8500 you will get a good over clock from both the e8400 is just a bit cheaper.

+1 to Akebono re the mem.

Yep get a good PSU.