First of the year build - $1500

[pmacdonald]

At the beginning of the year I will be building a new PC. I have around $1500 to spend. I have already chosen to use Windows XP Pro and a Samsung 2253BW Black 22" 5ms/2ms(GTG) DVI Widescreen $249.99 / $229.99 after Mail-In Rebate. I will be upgrading from Windows XP Pro later on. I already have a copy so I will save some green for the time being.

This computer will be used for gaming mainly, graphics design, website management, adobe cs4, etc etc etc... so a lot of programs that demand a highly powered system. I have put together this system so far but would like to know what modifications you guys think should be made.

Case
Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $109.99
Case Fans
Scythe SY1225SL12SH 120mm "Slipstream" Case Fan - $8.99 (x5 for Case)
Processor
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor $164.99
Hard Drive
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200AAKS 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - $54.99
Motherboard
Intel ASUS P5Q Pro LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard $129.99 / $114.99 after Mail-In Rebate
Power Supply Unit (PSU)
CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - $119.99 / $99.99 after Mail-In-Rebate
Memory
OCZ Reaper HPC 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Chanel Kit Desktop Memory $70.99 ($40.99 after rebate)
Video Card
2x SAPPHIRE 100259L Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x 16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supproted Video Card - $194.99 / $174.99 after $20 Mail-In Rebate
Sound Card
Stock Sound Card
Speakers
Logitech X-540 70 Watts 5.1 Speakers $61.21
CD-ROM/DVD
ASUS Black 20X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 20X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 14X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 20X DVD+-R DVD Burner with LightScribe $34.99

I'm not set on the cpu as I've been looking into the Quad Core Q6600. I have never OC'd anything but am willing to do so. Initially to some a little money I also opted towards using the stock sound card. I did this because those are easy upgrades. I'd also like to know if you guys think I should throw a heat sink in there so the system doesn't overheat when after I OC it.

I've read that if I go any higher then the P5Q Pro mobo that I'd need to upgrade more of the system parts? I'm not quite sure on this so any clarification would be helpful.

 

[shadowthor]

If you get a better motherboard, based on what you are planning to get above, it is fine. You don't need to upgrade more system parts. Have you considered getting core i7?

 

[bc4]

I'm pretty sure that CS4 will see a huge improvement with a quad core and a 64 bit OS and a lot of ram

 

[Zenthar]

P45 isn't the best chipset for XFire, you might loose 10-15% of performance compared to a "full" x16 XFire. However, you could always pay 100$ more and get a 4870x2 (prices might drop soon as NVidia's 295GTX is due soon for the same price and is reported to beat the 4870x2).

BTW, note that there is a limit of 1 MIR per household so you might pay full price for the 2nd 4870.

 

[BobfaceBilly]

I personally would go try to go with an i7 build... You would have to sacrifice some in the graphics area, but you'd have better upgradablity in the future.

Also, I hope you don't mind noise... Because with 5 of those fans that case will probably put your vacuum to shame.

 

[swifty_morgan]

What's with the extra fan/fans ? That case has enough already.

I have a 4870/512 card. I replaced it with an XFX GTX260. Couldn't be happier. If you're a die hard ATI fan get the 1gig version.... might help a little bit.

I'd also opt for a quad core processor ...for the uses you mention above.... not saying the one you chose isn't any good. . good luck

 

[pmacdonald]

I was told I'd need the fans in there to cool down the 2x 4870. To someone who posted about I did list up there I wanted to go with 2 4870s so your recommendation to buy another one didn't really accomplish anything.

How much improvement will the Core i7 give me over, say the Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz?

Once again I know photoshop will take use to a lot of ram and it will operate better with Quad cores. I have 4GB of ram listed above. I figured that would be enough. Are you guys saying it's not?

What specific motherboard do you guys recommend? A link to the product at newegg would be nice. I'm into gaming heavily aswell so keep that in mind. Games like CoD5 are a lot more demanding than older games. A poster above mentioned that the P45 chipset wouldn't use xFire to the fullest. I was told that anything above the P5Q would just add bells and whistles and not really offer much more in terms of performance.

Last but not least what is the processor that you guys recommend?

 

[pmacdonald]

If you think another part is worth upgrading but out of my price range then feel free to list it as 1) I can extend my price range and 2) PC part prices drop frequently.

 

[BobfaceBilly]

An i7 will notably outperform a q6600, and it overclocks better...

I put together a i7 build for $1400 (before rebates), but thats not including the monitor.
And it only has one 4870, but you can always add another as funds allow.

Antec 900:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200AAKS 320GB:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136074

1 4870:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102810

Speakers you listed:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121006

RAM:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231223

GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD5 LGA 1366 Intel X58:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128362

i7 920 + antec truepower 850w combo deal:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.146898

And vista 64 bit, which you would defiantly want with this build. Because with xp you'd be using only 2.8-3.0gb of your 6gb of RAM.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116483

 

[pmacdonald]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188039
Wouldn't that be a better motherboard? When is the F.T.W. version of this board due?

As far as gaming goes does the i7 920 over clocked over any performance over an over clocked E8500 Dual Core?

Building the i7 system costs a fair amount of money over what it would cost me to build a system with the E8500. I've read some comparisons and since games aren't using all four cores the performance benefit is 0. Some go as far as to say that the Quad Core processors are worse for gaming...any opinions?

 

[pmacdonald]

Also,

What heatsink do you recommend?

Will the i7 system offer an advantage for gaming compared to an E8500?

 

[shortstuff_mt]

The i7 920 is an awesome overclocker. I have personally seen one do 4.2GHz on air. The i7's work fine for games. They really get to show their power when you put them in a SLI/Crossfire configuration.

 

[BobfaceBilly]

Yes, the EVGA board is good as well. Not sure when the F.T.W. is coming...

As far as gaming you wouldn't see much of a difference in the i7 vs e8500, except in a select few that do take advantage of more than 2 cores. However, I'm thinking the newer games are slowly going to start taking advantage of quads, since they are becoming pretty mainstream now.
Another advantage of quads is that they can feed heavy multiple GPU setups better than duals.

Depending on how hard you overclock, an e8500 can reach about 4.5 on air.
And the 920 i7 can reach about 4.0.
Of course alot of that depends on your individual chip and setup, so maybe more maybe less.


Your more intense applications and multi-tasking, will of course, heavily favor the quad in most cases.

I think the best you can do right now for a HSF for the i7's is this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106102

EDIT: Yeah, +1 to shortstuff

 

[pmacdonald]

Alright after a lot of research and thought. I've decided to go with an Intel Core 2 build.

Why? (I know a lot of you are going to say..go with the more expensive, higher tech, faster, more up to date build.)

Because of money restraints (college), and I can see the prices of the i7 dropping as soon as this summer hits when the 32nm version is released with a new socket type of its own.

I also know that the Core 2 Duo/Quad aren't going anywhere yet because of Intel's announcement to release the B43 Express Chipset (which doesn't even support the Core i7 series as of now).

So with that said brings new questions afoot. I'll make this easy to read and hopefully painless.

1) Will the ASUS P5Q Pro Motherboard get full use of 2 ATI Radeon 4870s?
2) What fans do you recommend I put into the Antec 900 Case? I heard the ones that comes stock should be replaced with new 120mm fans. I will be over clocking the PC so I need to find a balance between the amount of air these fans move and the volume of sound.
3) What heat sink should I go with for the Core 2 build?
4) Any recommendations on a sound card?
5) Will a 750W PSU be enough?

I estimated it would be around $585 more for what I chose to go with the i7 build. Not worth it as of now IMO.

Thanks for the help so far.

 

[shortstuff_mt]

1) The motherboard will run at a 8x PCI-E link speed when in crossfire instead of 16x, but the latest benchmarks show little negative impact. The only way to get true full-speed 16x crossfire would be to go with a X38/X48 chipset, but I don't think they're worth the money.
2) I don't recommend swapping out the fans in the Antec 900. The fans that come with it are pretty good. They're also adjustable with three speed settings so you adjust them as needed.
3) XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233003 $36.99 - $10.00 MIR

XIGMATEK ACK-I7751 Retention Bracket - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233019 $8.49
4) You don't need a sound card. The onboard sound is actually pretty good. Give it a try and add a card later if you think you need to.
5) Yes, a 750W PSU will power your system even if you go with crossfire 4870's.

 

[pmacdonald]

shortstuff - you don't think it'd be worth it to even add a few more fans (5 total) to the case to keep it cool when over clocked?

I have not seen much about that heatsink. Is it better performing than say a Freezer 7, Zalman 9500A, and a Tehremalright Ultra-120/90?

 

[shortstuff_mt]

The Antec 900 has more than adequate cooling with the stock fans for even the highest overclocks. I've seen a setup with an i7 at 4.2GHz and SLI GTX 280's in an Antec 900 and cooling was not an issue. That big 200mm fan on the top is very effective.

LOL - You've not seen much about the most popular air cooler out for the past year? The Xigmatek cools considerably better than a Freezer 7 or a Zalman 9500A. It's right there with the Ultra 120.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/thermalright-xigmatek.html

http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2333&page=5

 

[pmacdonald]

Thanks for the speedy reply and links...and yea, I'll admit I'm not really up to date on my heatsinks.

 

[pmacdonald]

One last thing I need to decided is this. Should I go with a Q6600 or an E8500. I will overclock whichever one I go with.

Q6600
Pros
Faster at multitasking
More cores
Faster at encoding

Cons
Lower gaming performance
A lot of programs don't utilize all four cores
Vista is almost a requirement

E8500
Pros
Better gaming performance
Higher speed
Will function quicker in most programs unless doing multiple tasks at once or using programs that utilize four cores

Cons
Two cores
Not as quick when multitasking

Some will say the Q6600 is more 'future proof' but it's actually older tech. The E8500 has 45nm technology, runs a lot cooler, and is more energy efficient. In the next year Intel plans on releasing a new chip specifically for the Dual Core CPU and won't even be compatible with the i7 so that tells me that dual cores aren't going anywhere. The Q6600 is outdated tech. now that the new Core i7 is out with much faster speeds.

If I had to summarize what I do on the computer I'd put it like this:
1) Gaming/Web Browsing - 70%
2) Web design (work in adobe) - 15%
3) Other high demand programs - 15%

What would you guys recommend?

 

[pmacdonald]

Any opinions?

 

[eroc]

q6600- future proof, and you can do some overclocking. great bang for buck

just make sure you get an aftermarket cooler!

 

[BobfaceBilly]

I'll vote for the dual, since 70% of what your doing is just fine on a dual.

However, if you are going to be doing some heavy multi-tasking you'll definitely enjoy the quad.

But considering you'll be spending most of your time doing things that work a little faster with the dual (gaming) you'll probably care more for that, than saving seconds in the programs you'll spend 15% of your time on.

 

[pmacdonald]

Option 1:

Processor
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - $159.99
Motherboard
*Open Box* ASUS P5Q Pro LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - $78.75
Power Supply Unit (PSU)
PC Power & Cooling S75CF 750W EPS12V SLI NVIDIA SLI Certified (Dual 8800 GTX and below) CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - $109.99 / $69.99 after $40.00 Mail-In Rebate
Memory
OCZ Reaper HPC Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - $54.99 / $24.99 after $30.00 Mail-In Rebate
Heatsink
XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler - $36.99 / $26.99 after $10.00 Mail-In Rebate
XIGMATEK ACK-I7751 Retention Bracket - $8.49
Case
Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $109.99
Case Fans
Scythe SY1225SL12M 120mm "Slipstream" Case Fan - $8.99
Scythe SY1225SL12M 120mm "Slipstream" Case Fan - $8.99
Scythe SY1225SL12M 120mm "Slipstream" Case Fan - $8.99
Video Card
EVGA 01G-P3-1280-AR GeForce GTX 280 1GB 512-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - $374.99 / $344.99 after $30.00 Mail-In Rebate
Hard Drive
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - $64.99
Monitor
Acer X223Wbd Black 22" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 2500:1 - $169.99
Speakers
Logitech S-220 17 Watts 2.1 Multimedia Speaker System - $22.99
CD-ROM/DVD
SAMSUNG 22X DVD+R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S223Q - $28.99
Thermal Compound
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - $5.99
OS
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit for System Builders - $99.99

Option 2:

Processor
Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80601920 - $299.99
Motherboard
*Open Box* ASUS P6T Deluxe/OC Palm LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard - $229.50
Memory
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9D-4GBNQ - $94.99
Video Card
SAPPHIRE 100259L Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x 16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - $199.99 / $179.99 after $20.00 Mail-In Rebate

That's what it's down to. With Option 2 replace the above items with the ones listed. It's around $155 more but is it worth it? That setup would have 4GB of RAM but another stick of 2GB could be added within a few months of the purchase (it would be around 3 months later). I'd also be sacrificing quite a bit with only 1 4870. If I remember correctly I could add 2 more 4870s or 4850s in the future (running at x16/x8/x8). In the future would mean around 5-6 months later. Adding those cards would also require a new PSU in the future though.

What would be a better option?

*EDIT* Reading more about the 920 and the motherboard choices it seems A LOT of the i7 motherboards are having problems. This is my first build but I want the best product for my money. I know someone who can help put this together w/me for free if I run into troubles (he's in the computer industry). I'm stuck between choosing between these two though. I feel it's not worth it to get a Core 2 Quad because of the price (besides the Q6600 which I don't feel is a better buy than the E8400). For that price I can build the i7 Core system.

This will be my computer through college so keep that in mind.

 

[BobfaceBilly]

It really comes down to what your willing to pay.
I would really suggest against buying open box... Its really hit or miss if you get a good one.

Save yourself some money on those fans... You don't need them, the stock antec's are fine, I'm running a E8400 in an antec 300, with just 2 antec stock fans, one on low, and the other on medium. And I idle at 28-30 degrees celcius, thats with air cooling.

If money is tight go ahead with the e8400, if an extra $150-200 doesn't mean that much go with the i7. That PSU should be fine with crossfired 4870's, although not three. However, that monitor (which I'm staring at right now, and its great ) is 1680x1050, and its kinda pointless to use three graphics cards at that setting, not enough performance gains.

 

[pmacdonald]

I've looked into both systems and your right about open box. The difference turns out to be around $400 between both machines. I took a look into the monitor size and what GPU I chose; the crossfire'd 4870s were overkill IMO. People are maxing out today's games with a 4850 with all the eye candy turned on (with a 1680x1050 resolution). A single 4870 will be fine for that monitor and ALL of today's games.

The budget is pretty tight so I'm fine with a 22" and a 4870. I was thinking of going with a 24" but the price difference wasn't worth it, and then I'd also need a more power GPU.

In the end this is what it's going to be:
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor
PC Power & Cooling S75CF 750W
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard
XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler
OCZ Reaper HPC Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
XIGMATEK ACK-I7751 Retention Bracket
NZXT TEMPEST Crafted Series CS-NT-TEM-B Black Steel / Plastic ATX MId Tower Computer Case
SAPPHIRE 100259L Radeon HD 4870
Western Digital Caviar Black WD5001AALS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
SAMSUNG 22X DVD+R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S223Q
Arctic Cooling MX-2 Thermal Compound $6.99
Acer X223Wbd Black 22" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor
Logitech S-220 17 Watts 2.1 Multimedia Speaker System
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit for System Builders


I have two last questions:
Do I need to get a heatsink to OC the motherboard/GPU even with the case fans?
Is it necessary to get the Artic Cooling MX-2 Thermal Compound?