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Phenom bottlenecking 4870?

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March 19, 2009 11:51:14 PM

Hey all I got a question, system specs are Phenom 9500 2.2ghz@ Stock multiplier locked mobo sucks cant OC this Chip. (Jetway) PA78VM5 MB
Kingston HyperX runs at 2.2volts supposed to be at PC8500 but my mobo wont let the volts go above 2.0volts so currently set to DDR2 800mhz
Currently running a HIS HD 4870 512 GDR5 at 790/1100 Maxed out from ATI OVERDRIVE which sucks. I wanted to know, my 3Dmark06 score is 9343 with all my driver settings lowered catalyst 9.3 newest drivers, even playing COD4 lowering some game settings managing to get higher fps all set to low even still ingame. ANYWAYS my question is could this PHENOM be bottlenecking my 4870's performance? The CPU only scores a 3100 score in 3dmark06 if i upgraded to a 9950 2.5hgz and upgrading my mb to 790fx or 750i and OCIng my cpu would i see significant changes? I know getting a better cpu would raise my score in 3dmark but would it give me better fps as well? and changing my MB also would give me the option to OC and go 4870x2? any help thankx much

March 20, 2009 2:47:04 AM

memory bandwidth and cpu speed can be a bottle neck

2.2ghz for amd is pretty low since a fx-60 ran 2.8ghz in 2005

so your using a 2009 video card with 2003 cpu technology - i am not surprised

amd buyers should stick with dual core or new phenom II - the phenom is total junk other then a cheapy business system or low end graphics workstation
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March 20, 2009 2:48:05 AM

NOTE: amd users!!!! use a dual core, set at 2.8-3.2ghz, if you can not use a new phenom II and oc it
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March 20, 2009 4:32:32 AM

this was a new build and i regret not doing my homework, because after seeing some phenom benchmarks vs intel benchmarks i can see that intel won this round. Always being amd fan i went with it again after years of only using amd and never even using intel except for this dual core notebook which is only 1.66Ghz and rated at 5.1 on vista and my phenom is rated as 5.2 so yuk. I have a AM2+ board now and intel chips are so expensive, maybe getting the quadcore 2.4 intel would be a good choice i hear intel OC's well but runs a little toastier. Not a concern because my case has great cooling even an internal dedicated gpu fan. Its funny but i was even considering downgrading to a AMDx2 6400+ 3.2 and just OCing it but idk i think quad core is defiantly the future. ya know though i think this phenom 9500 chip isnt very good for OCing and the prices on these chips are dropping rapidly. Maybe amd will have somthing up there sleeve i sure hope so with there lease with the x86 chips is running out. idk whats gonna happen, theirs not much competition for processors right now between amd and intel unless your a leet skeet overclock er getting 35800 on 3dmark wich id have no chance even with liquid nitrogen cooling. I was thinking about just getting the 9950 2.5Ghz its only 139$ right now and with the right chipset im sure would OC very well with the low temps

the phenoms multiplier atleast with my mobo is locked and the only thing i can change is HT ref clock which is default @ 200mhz and when i change it in the bios and boot windows its unstable i can tell b/c windows appears to be fuzzy and i cant see the screen. just even a change to 201mhz and awnsers on that anyone?

Anyone running a similar config got benchmarks or 3dmark06 cpu scores?

jetway pa78mv5 or somthing like that only like 2 pa78 models
phenom 9500
kingston hypermem X @ DDR2 800
HIS 4870 512 GDR5 790/1100 maxxed out ati overdrive and using ati third party utilities misses with the control panel and makes it kinda freeze up so i just leave it at that
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March 20, 2009 4:36:05 AM

srry double posting, but my 3dmark06 score was 9343 the cpu portion of that was 3100 or so thankz ive seen lower system specs score higher then that
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March 20, 2009 4:56:17 AM

mine was 2874 or so just now ...fyi :)  @ stock speed on vista 64.

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a b à CPUs
March 20, 2009 9:22:26 AM

Phenom II 920, mild overclock 3.0ghz.
BFG 8800GTS 512 OC
4 gig Crucial 1066
3dmark06- 15,080
CPU- 4684

Your current Phenom at 2.2 is definetly a bottleneck.
You will need to get it running @ 3.0ghz or better to make good use of a 4870.
An upgrade that definetly be worth the money spent is a PII 940 Black Edition, the multiplier is unlocked.
Do not buy another old Phenom, just do not even think about it.
If you don't think it would not be worth it, look at my scores again using a lesser video card.
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a c 108 à CPUs
March 20, 2009 2:03:47 PM

1) You should care much less about your 3d marks.

2) The Phenom 9500 (IIRC) does not have an unlocked CPU multi so there is no reason for the BIOS to show the multipliers.

3) What kind of PSU do you have? Because:
a) We know your RAMs are undervolted;
b) The mobo has an 8-pin power connector; so
c) The cpu may be undervolted; and
d) Your 4870 will eat around 150w or somewhere around 13 amps.

4) At what resolution are you gaming? What is your monitor? You may purchase a 19-inch LCD at 16x10 for $120.

5) You should not be having fps difficulties in COD4. This would lead one to assume you have driver conflicts or a configuration problem. Lookee here --->>>
http://www.guru3d.com/article/cpu-scaling-in-games-with...

At:
* 4x Anti Aliasing
* 16x anisotropic filtering
* All settings maxed out

6) How much RAMs do you have? What is your OS?
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March 20, 2009 4:57:21 PM

I'm in agreeing with the post's above about PSU and also the one about the older phenom chip. The HIS 4870 is a power hungry chip, compared to a 9800 or something close to its standard. My PSU is only 500watt 20+4 pin and the cpu takes 8 pin which i didn't even have so i had to buy and adapter for the CPU using 2x4pin and same thing with GPU i only had 1x6pin luckily it came with a 4 pin to 6 pin adapter so going crossfire with this psu and mobo is out of the question and to answer the question above. I'm running a Emachines 19" wide screen HD Monitor at 1280x960 i believe that's correct.
if you think im having a driver conflict do you think if i get like a 790FX mobo that i might have better results. Sorry for the newbness i just havent built a computer since my Athlon A 2600+@ 2.0Ghz single core with a Geforce 5900XT and DDR2@667mhz 1GB. I just got into the understanding and readings of the quad-core's and it really exited me so i went out and bought what i could afford :p  broke gamer i guess you could call me. Been playing the Xbox 360 since it came out b/c my 5900xt wasnt playing any new games, and even though the games look awesome on the 360 there optimized for the xbox to run them so well. I just missed being able to use my mouse and keyboard because its not the same.
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March 21, 2009 6:28:24 AM

ANYWAYS my question is could this PHENOM be bottlenecking my 4870's performance?

too small a psu does not cause this nor does undervolting the ram

tuning the system and oveclocking it is the best solution of swap the a dual core and get a high fsb, high core speed around 3ghz

good luck!
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March 21, 2009 6:53:50 AM

The cpu might be a bottlenecking but it really depends on the monitor reolution and the game your playing. One of my systems is a 9350e running at 2.2 with an overclocked 8800gt. I know the 4870 is fair bit faster but my phenom usually runs at %50 cpu usage in cod4 and cod5 at 1920x1200 with everything turned up.

Ok, I just checked up on your motherboard and it only supports 65w cpu's so that is a big problem to start with. I would suggest changing to a Gigabyte board with a 140w cpu rating and replace your cpu with the x3 720 black edition and just overclock it a little.
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March 21, 2009 6:55:36 AM

yikes!

the cpu is throtling down at defult settings!

you need to trash that mobo - sounds like a new mobo and cpu but start with the mobo.
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March 21, 2009 4:35:40 PM

I don't get it? 3100 isn't a bad CPU score at all in 3Dmark 06.
I'm only getting 2400+ CPU score wtth a 12,300+ overall with my 5000+BE
oc'd to 3.2 Ghz and a 2x HD 3870 GPU.
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March 22, 2009 5:32:34 PM

well im not loaded with cash so i planing to upgrade the mobo http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... to that first then the PSU then the CPU i dont want to ugrade the CPU yet because there prices are dropping right now so im gonna wait and see what happens this cpu will manage for now but i definitely will have to get a higher PSU
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March 22, 2009 11:17:34 PM

I would suggest going for a Gigabyte board over the ASUS. Gigabyte uses better quality components and the bios is also much more user friendly.
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March 25, 2009 2:19:30 PM

Look at the graphics cards available today the 9800's series and the 260 are dropping crazy and the 4870's i think ati and nvidia got some *** up there sleeves for the summer i think 256bit chips are gonna be obsolete next year and everything GDR3 and under is gonna be gone. I got the HIS 4870 512 just a few weeks ago, and then some of the 260s droped to 178$ now i wished i got one of those :(  you'll see, you'll all see
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March 25, 2009 4:30:08 PM

dragonsprayer said:

2.2ghz for amd is pretty low since a fx-60 ran 2.8ghz in 2005


yeeeeeeeeeeep not quite a fair comparison.

I have managed to get a stable 2465Mhz outta my 9500...thats without overvolting. Still sucks though, and everytime i get the cash to replace it something else comes up :/ 
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April 13, 2009 1:07:00 PM

Are you using the tlb patch disable fix? honestly these people saying the 9500 sucks dont know any better.. its not a bad cpu. i ran a test in farcry 2 .. i stood in an area where i got my minimum fps (20 fps).. then alt+tabbed and turned off the tlb fix and my fps jumped to 40 fps. this is with an ati 4870 1gb stock speeds, 9500 stock speeds and an abit ax78 motherboard and 16x10 res with 8xaa and everything at its highest. while the 9500 isnt the fastest cpu out there.. its decent enough to game on. Just google tlb bug fix. run cinebench r10 before and after to see what i mean.
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April 13, 2009 2:21:13 PM

Agreed, find a nice AM2+ mobo, and do some light OCing on your current CPU. Should be able to get up to 2.4-2.6 without too much trouble, which while still slow, will help considerably. As prices drop, look to pick up a new PhenomII.
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April 13, 2009 6:14:28 PM

dragonsprayer said:
memory bandwidth and cpu speed can be a bottle neck

2.2ghz for amd is pretty low since a fx-60 ran 2.8ghz in 2005

so your using a 2009 video card with 2003 cpu technology - i am not surprised

amd buyers should stick with dual core or new phenom II - the phenom is total junk other then a cheapy business system or low end graphics workstation



I have the Phenom II 940be, and the phenom 9850 with B3 stepping and It is not junk, I can overclock it stable to 3.1Ghz and not that it means much but vista rates it at 5.9. The older b2 are junk but the newer 9850 and 9950 are not as bad and are ok processors.
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April 13, 2009 7:11:52 PM

I did some bottleneck tests a while back with my E8400/HD4870 setup. The performance really started to drop off when below 2.0 Ghz on a dual core. Really, 4 cores at 2.2 Ghz should be fine. AMD's processors have amazing memory bandwidth too. That's not to say I wouldn't recommend overclocking that thing a bit.
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April 13, 2009 7:40:32 PM

dragonsprayer said:
memory bandwidth and cpu speed can be a bottle neck

2.2ghz for amd is pretty low since a fx-60 ran 2.8ghz in 2005

so your using a 2009 video card with 2003 cpu technology - i am not surprised

amd buyers should stick with dual core or new phenom II - the phenom is total junk other then a cheapy business system or low end graphics workstation


Keep in mind that the Phenom 9600 is $95, and the 2.6Ghz 9950 is $150. Also know that the direct "competitor" to the 9600 is an Pentium E5400 at $90 (lol), and the closest competitor from Intel for the 9950 is the 2.33Ghz Q8200 at $165. It's about price performance, not just performance.

Not everyone has three benjamins to drop on a computer chip.
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a c 108 à CPUs
April 13, 2009 9:22:13 PM


I've got a Phenom 9600BE/780g combo at a respectable 2.6GHz running Vegas. Works pretty spiffy, too. Not meant for gaming rig but I imagine it would be respectable with the right video card.

Hopefully the OP is on the road to success with his new mobo - at 14x9 or 16x10 he should be okay ...
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April 13, 2009 9:27:30 PM

hey all again, thanks for all the replies. I cant agree but cant argue with most comments made, but agree about the motherboard being junk. Its selling on newegg for 60$ now wow gg me, like 2 weeks after i bought it, it was 100$ when i bought it.I should have dished out the cash and went with a 2x2.0 PCI slot mobo and 4Xddr2 slots instead of 2 and defiantly 790FX board. There are some great prices on the phenom chips right now like the 9950BE its like what? 149$@ 2.6, im sure easily overclockable. I dont have a whole lot of room to complain, i changed settings in COD4 and never run lower then like 45 fps now and when not moving at all have reached 350 fps. when running usually like 40-120 fps and in action like 45-100 fps. Crysis runs pretty decent considering! I run CRYSIS WARS on medium and never really reach below 25-fps while being able to reach a high of 110fps or so. 2X on as well it seems to run better at higher res. 1280x960, (desktop default as well). I see the 4890 came out just like i was saying up there before i said i thought they had somthing up there sleeves,BUT. I know by this december a card like 9800, or 260 , 4850, or 4870 will be the standard in gaming. Cards will have to be upgraded soon enough :(  time to save up more cash LOL! but this system is great for multimedia and running a server ftp, and numerous other things and i will still use this computer up until my next one, my wife and i play WoW together. Never really playing this game its kinda fun and this system runs wow@ 1280x960 MID settings like 25-200 fps good enough for us to play. i have 2 laptops both dual core gens. lol ones built for vista the other runs xp, 6150Go series and the intel 965Xpress? im guessing is what it is, it was a gift. Anyways. thankx again everyone, and on second note, when i increase my FSB in my bios even stock is 200mhz, setting it to 201 causes complete instability, fuzzy booted windows :p  not cool lol OUT!
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April 14, 2009 9:19:04 PM

hey again, id like to restate my some of my previous statements above. I said my system was completely unstable after only increasing my fsb from 200mhz to 201mhz, well huh....... like a said before ive never overclocked b4. After some readings and correct me if im wrong overclocking should be done in increments of like 5mhz to 10mhz , and the results are in. Using CPUZ i have SShots, i havent done much of an overclock yet but plan to up the mhz after running some tests. After only increasing to 205mhzMultiPlyX@11 i increased my 3dMark06 score from 3100 to 3190....psssssh not much.After increasing the mhz from 205mhz to 210mhz @ 2.31Ghz never going above uhh 46'Celcius or so and getting my score to 3280. If it continues to run stable @ these speeds ill eventually try to get it to 2.4Ghz and 2.45Ghz and so on..... does anyone have any tips of steps to continue this process? Ill post a new 3dMark06 Score of the full system after next few replies THANKx. Oh i have d/led Burn In and MYGUARD that comes with my 4870 wich states my temps being from 36C to 46-48C, any programs i should use and how long should i run BURNIN?
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April 17, 2009 3:07:42 PM

lol should be my final post. I Oc'd the cpu to 2.44 Stable on air running 2 instances of CPU burn-in at 30 minutes running cpu @ 50% with temps reaching 48C and my conclusion that the bottle neck is not the cpu. This graphics card with this mobo nether one is that great. but for gaming the phenom 9500 is not a bad cpu www.canyourunit.com rated it at 6.14Ghz and i get all 5 bars for crysis and 4 bars for gta4. My CPU score for 3dmark went from 3100 to 3500 and overall went from 9343 to 1001 so wupti do mabe at 3.0Ghz or 3.2 id notice a bigger difference
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