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Can't boot with IDE primary master and primary slave hard drives attac

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June 16, 2010 4:38:28 AM

Here is my problem. I am running WinXP Pro and have 2 hard drives connected to my primary IDE channel. I have an ASUS A7V400MX motherboard and 2 gigs of ram.

I was running two 80 Gig Western digital hard drives. I use my 2nd drive to Ghost to. My system has been very stable for over 4 years.

Last week I ran the WD diagnostics on both drives and found out that my primary drive was good and my second drive would not pass the tests.

I them purchased a WD 160 Gig drive to replace my 2nd drive.
I installed it as primary slave and formatted it to NTFS. Everything fine so far. I then used Ghost 2003 to do a sector to sector copy of my C drive to my new D drive. I then made my new drive primary with no slave attached. Everything was great it booted up and I was on my way.

Here's where the problems started. I then installed my old 80 Gig drive as primary slave so I could use it to Ghost to for a system backup.

Now I can't boot with the Primary slave attached. I have spent the last 2 days talking to Tier 2 support at WD. Basically they have given up. We tried may potential solutions including Win Recovery Console, writing 1's and 0's to the slave drive, I updated my bios to the latest version, etc.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I thank you in advance.

BZ
a c 342 G Storage
June 16, 2010 4:51:04 AM

For the jumper settings of the new 160 GB unit, do you have to change from "Master with No Slave" to "Master with Slave Attached"? Some drives are this way, don't know about yours.

Does the old 80 GB unit still have all its old data? I'm thinking, what about re-installing it as the ONLY drive in your system to see whether it is still working OK? If you can do that, re-run some of the WD Diagnostics on it for peace of mind. In fact, IF you are using the "for DOS" version of diagnostics that run from its own bootable floppy or CD-R disk, you can test any HDD without having any bootable HDD in the machine.
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a b G Storage
June 16, 2010 5:45:50 AM

Have you tried setting the drives to cable select? Alternatively swap the slave drive to the secondry chanel.
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June 16, 2010 5:35:15 PM

Paperdoc said:
For the jumper settings of the new 160 GB unit, do you have to change from "Master with No Slave" to "Master with Slave Attached"? Some drives are this way, don't know about yours.

Does the old 80 GB unit still have all its old data? I'm thinking, what about re-installing it as the ONLY drive in your system to see whether it is still working OK? If you can do that, re-run some of the WD Diagnostics on it for peace of mind. In fact, IF you are using the "for DOS" version of diagnostics that run from its own bootable floppy or CD-R disk, you can test any HDD without having any bootable HDD in the machine.


No my old 80 gig now has 1's and 0's per WD Tier 2 support. They ask me to do that. My operating only exists on my new 160 gig drive.
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June 16, 2010 5:37:15 PM

Jonmor68 said:
Have you tried setting the drives to cable select? Alternatively swap the slave drive to the secondry chanel.


I've never been able to use cable select with my motherboard. I've always had to jumper the drive. It's been that way for 5 years.

I'll try to connect my old 80 gig to my secondary IDE channel to see if it works.
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a c 342 G Storage
June 16, 2010 5:48:46 PM

Check in your BIOS Setup the Boot Priority Sequence settings. Ideally they should show MAYBE your optical drive as the first unit, then your new 160 GB unit as second, and NO other choices. Make sure that when the 80 GB older unit is installed as the Primary Slave (or the Secondary Master) it is NOT anywhere in the Boot Priority Sequence.

If you can get it to boot with that old HDD installed in some position, use Disk Management to find it in its LOWER RIGHT pane and Delete any and all Partitions it may have, until it is all Unallocated Space. Then Create a new Primary Partition that is not bootable and occupies the whole drive, and Format it to NTFS File System. Use a Full Format to ensure any doubtful sectors are detected and marked off by Windows. When done back out of Disk Management and reboot, and the old HDD should show up as a new drive in My Computer. Once you have it known good you can use it for whatever, including as the Destination unit in some cloning or ghosting system.
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June 16, 2010 6:21:24 PM

Paperdoc said:
Check in your BIOS Setup the Boot Priority Sequence settings. Ideally they should show MAYBE your optical drive as the first unit, then your new 160 GB unit as second, and NO other choices. Make sure that when the 80 GB older unit is installed as the Primary Slave (or the Secondary Master) it is NOT anywhere in the Boot Priority Sequence.

If you can get it to boot with that old HDD installed in some position, use Disk Management to find it in its LOWER RIGHT pane and Delete any and all Partitions it may have, until it is all Unallocated Space. Then Create a new Primary Partition that is not bootable and occupies the whole drive, and Format it to NTFS File System. Use a Full Format to ensure any doubtful sectors are detected and marked off by Windows. When done back out of Disk Management and reboot, and the old HDD should show up as a new drive in My Computer. Once you have it known good you can use it for whatever, including as the Destination unit in some cloning or ghosting system.


I just tried what you suggested and it still won't boot with the primary slave attached. After a loog boot process my bios screen came up.
It shows the 160 gig as primary master, the 80 gig as primary slave. Here is the error message. Primary Master hard disk fail. Weird message because if I just have the 160 gig in as primary master and no slave everythig works fine.

This is the same error message I've been getting for 2 days while talking to WD Tier 2 support. They seam to thing it may be a MBR problem. I have run Recovery Console and ran fixmbr and fixboot but still have the problem.

My system will not boot with any configuration with a slave attached.
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a c 342 G Storage
June 16, 2010 7:07:59 PM

Do you have handy a valid Windows Install CD? That can be used to wipe out whatever is on the 80 Gb older drive. If you have, try this sequence.

1. Disconnect the 80 GB, leave only the 160 GB unit installed. Boot from that and verify it boots quickly and smoothly. Watch the POST messages fly by in case there are any errors noted.
2. All that OK? Next, disconnect the 160 GB unit, set the jumpers on the 80 GB unit to Master and move the IDE ribbon cable's end connector from the 160 to the 80. That makes it the only and Master HDD on the channel. Boot directly into BIOS Setup, verify that the 80 GB unit is detected. Go to Boot Priority Sequence and ensure that the optical drive is first, then the 80 GB HDD. NOW put your Windows Install CD in the optical drive, then Save and Exit from Setup to boot from that CD. One of its first menus should offer you a chance to Delete from the only HDD present any Partition you can find. Make sure you get rid of all of them. Now, tell it to Create a new bootable Primary Partition of the full disk size and Format it with an NTFS File System. Probably best to use a Full Format (takes a bunch of time). When that is finished and it proposes to continue by actually Installing Windows on this drive, stop it and exit out of Install. Shut down. Now you have an 80 GB unit that has a fresh valid Partition on it that is Formatted. But it has no OS on it.
3. Remove the Install Cd from the optical drive and boot up. This should find the 80 GB HDD as a good piece of hardware, but fail to find any OS and give you the message about needing you to supply a Valid System Disk for it to boot from. If you get that, the system could use the 80 GB unit normally at least to read its beginning. Shut down.
4. Move the end connector of the IDE cable back to the 160 GB unit, but leave the 80 Gb unit unconnected. Boot up the machine and verify the 160 still works OK by itself. Shut down.
5. Change the jumpers on the 80 GB unit to the Slave position and plug into it the middle data ribbon connector. Make sure it has power, too. Boot into BIOS Setup and verify that both HDD's are detected. Go to Boot Priority Sequence and make sure it is optical drive first, 160 GB unit second, and NO mention of the 80 GB unit. Save and Exit for it to boot. Does it? It should - you have two HDD's mounted and identified with the proper Master and Slave functions, and each has been proven so far to be readable. The 160 GB has even been proven bootable. If you can boot and see the 80 GB unit in My Computer, we're almost there!

Just to be safe, it would probably be advisable to Format that 80 GB unit again, in case some junk was left on it when the Install process was aborted. BUT, more that that, it is advisable to change the way its Primary Partition is set, so that it is NOT bootable and available only as a data drive. If you do this, don't bother reformatting first - that will be done in the next step. For this you use Disk Management's LOWER RIGHT pane to access that 80 GB unit. Right-click on the Partition it has and Delete it so it becomes Unallocated Space. RIGHT-click on that and Create a new Primary Partition that is the full disk space, BUT do NOT make it bootable. When you Format it, again do the Full Format and choose the NTFS File System. When done, back out of Disk Management and reboot.
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June 16, 2010 8:58:07 PM

Paperdoc said:
Do you have handy a valid Windows Install CD? That can be used to wipe out whatever is on the 80 Gb older drive. If you have, try this sequence.

1. Disconnect the 80 GB, leave only the 160 GB unit installed. Boot from that and verify it boots quickly and smoothly. Watch the POST messages fly by in case there are any errors noted.
2. All that OK? Next, disconnect the 160 GB unit, set the jumpers on the 80 GB unit to Master and move the IDE ribbon cable's end connector from the 160 to the 80. That makes it the only and Master HDD on the channel. Boot directly into BIOS Setup, verify that the 80 GB unit is detected. Go to Boot Priority Sequence and ensure that the optical drive is first, then the 80 GB HDD. NOW put your Windows Install CD in the optical drive, then Save and Exit from Setup to boot from that CD. One of its first menus should offer you a chance to Delete from the only HDD present any Partition you can find. Make sure you get rid of all of them. Now, tell it to Create a new bootable Primary Partition of the full disk size and Format it with an NTFS File System. Probably best to use a Full Format (takes a bunch of time). When that is finished and it proposes to continue by actually Installing Windows on this drive, stop it and exit out of Install. Shut down. Now you have an 80 GB unit that has a fresh valid Partition on it that is Formatted. But it has no OS on it.
3. Remove the Install Cd from the optical drive and boot up. This should find the 80 GB HDD as a good piece of hardware, but fail to find any OS and give you the message about needing you to supply a Valid System Disk for it to boot from. If you get that, the system could use the 80 GB unit normally at least to read its beginning. Shut down.
4. Move the end connector of the IDE cable back to the 160 GB unit, but leave the 80 Gb unit unconnected. Boot up the machine and verify the 160 still works OK by itself. Shut down.
5. Change the jumpers on the 80 GB unit to the Slave position and plug into it the middle data ribbon connector. Make sure it has power, too. Boot into BIOS Setup and verify that both HDD's are detected. Go to Boot Priority Sequence and make sure it is optical drive first, 160 GB unit second, and NO mention of the 80 GB unit. Save and Exit for it to boot. Does it? It should - you have two HDD's mounted and identified with the proper Master and Slave functions, and each has been proven so far to be readable. The 160 GB has even been proven bootable. If you can boot and see the 80 GB unit in My Computer, we're almost there!

Just to be safe, it would probably be advisable to Format that 80 GB unit again, in case some junk was left on it when the Install process was aborted. BUT, more that that, it is advisable to change the way its Primary Partition is set, so that it is NOT bootable and available only as a data drive. If you do this, don't bother reformatting first - that will be done in the next step. For this you use Disk Management's LOWER RIGHT pane to access that 80 GB unit. Right-click on the Partition it has and Delete it so it becomes Unallocated Space. RIGHT-click on that and Create a new Primary Partition that is the full disk space, BUT do NOT make it bootable. When you Format it, again do the Full Format and choose the NTFS File System. When done, back out of Disk Management and reboot.


Ok I tried it but here is my problem When I got to the point to delete the partition I got the following error message.

Page Fault In Non Paged Area. It would not let me continue.
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a c 342 G Storage
June 17, 2010 12:00:07 AM

That message sounds like an error in RAM. Have you tested your main board memory for problems? Memtest 86+ is a good tool for this.
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June 17, 2010 2:52:45 AM

I ran memtest for over 2 hours. No errors.


What's next?
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June 17, 2010 7:24:32 AM

How many active partitions are there? if slave drive got active, then it can be the problem.
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a b G Storage
June 17, 2010 2:43:12 PM

Run Memtest over night 2 hours may not be enough.
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June 17, 2010 4:13:41 PM

anonymous1 said:
Run Memtest over night 2 hours may not be enough.


I'll try that.
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June 17, 2010 4:14:31 PM

techeasy said:
How many active partitions are there? if slave drive got active, then it can be the problem.


Only 1
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June 18, 2010 10:25:59 AM

Several different options to offer:
First you don't mention what drives these are, ide?, sata?
Second, there are some sequences of incompatibilty between 2 drives, whereas one can be a master and the other a slave but the inverse is not (strict incompatibility-IDE). In some instances this can be overcome by going from master/slave relationship to drive select method. Based on the information you supplied you must be using ide as I'm unaware that this conflict is possible with sata.
Exception: If these are sata drives the only way an incompatibilty could exist is that an identifier classes the 2 drives as the same one to the system.
How? the label may be the same and or the assigned serial no. ( not the manufacturers but the operating system's assigned one.
One of the options with ghost is to copy this information during the transfer.
IF the volume label is the same you can change that easily from command prompt with the command ; label/? for instructions
IF the serial number is still matching you need to (fdisk/mbr) the drive, I know you said you wrote 0/1's but that only clears the storage area and not the label and operating system serial no. good luck no I'm not crazy
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a b G Storage
June 18, 2010 10:45:42 AM

Well seeing as the drives in question are referred to as Master and Slave the drives must be IDE. I would low level format the 80 GB. Sometimes thats the only way to get a drive to respond. Also is it possible that the 80 GB is a lower ATA than the 160 GB forcing the ATA to a level the 160 is not happy with? Will your controller cope with two drives running at different ATA? You may have a 66 ATA and 100 ATA or even 100 ATA and 133 ATA. I see that ATA 6 which is necessary to run a PATA drive over 137 GB uses a different LBA setting than earlier ATA standards. Can your controller handle two different LBA requirements on the same ribbon? If your controller is already pushing past the 137 GB mark then the 80 GB would have be ATA 6 compliant to interface properly perhaps?
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a b G Storage
June 18, 2010 3:28:35 PM

Is this your case?

Computer won't power up with additional hard drive attached

Unfortunately it appears that the drive has been damaged by trying to hot plug the power while the system was on. The circuit board may need replacement.
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June 18, 2010 5:54:58 PM

Wamphryi said:
Well seeing as the drives in question are referred to as Master and Slave the drives must be IDE. I would low level format the 80 GB. Sometimes thats the only way to get a drive to respond. Also is it possible that the 80 GB is a lower ATA than the 160 GB forcing the ATA to a level the 160 is not happy with? Will your controller cope with two drives running at different ATA? You may have a 66 ATA and 100 ATA or even 100 ATA and 133 ATA. I see that ATA 6 which is necessary to run a PATA drive over 137 GB uses a different LBA setting than earlier ATA standards. Can your controller handle two different LBA requirements on the same ribbon? If your controller is already pushing past the 137 GB mark then the 80 GB would have be ATA 6 compliant to interface properly perhaps?


My motherboard (ASUS A7V400MX) manual say it is for UltraATA 133/100/60.

Below is the spec sheet for my NEW 160 gig drive.

When I got the new drive I was able to connect it to my primamary IDE channel as a slave.
Windows saw it a I formatted it NTFS. I then used Ghost 2002 DOS version to ghost my good 80 gig drive to the 160.
I installed the 160 in the prmary IDE channel as master without a slave and everything was fine. My system booted fine.
I thought I was almost done. All I had to do now was install my old 80 as slave to the 160 and done.

That's was the start of my current problems. After 3 days of tier 2 support from Western Digital no resolution was found
The 160 will not accept a slave attached. No way no how. Always the same error message - PRIMARY MASTER HARD DRIVE FAIL when a slave is attached.

I now have my 80 on the secondary IDE channel as a slave to my CD/DVD burner and it works fine. At least I have a drive to back up my data to.

I did also try to Ghost my 160 to my 80. It did it but when I installed it alone on the primary IDE channel as master without a slave I could not
boot from it. Same error PRIMARY MASTER HARD DRIVE FAIL. I think it is a problem with ghosting from a 160 to an 80.

Question
Specifications for the 160 GB Caviar Blue EIDE drive (WD1600AAJB, WD1600AABB).

Installation FAQ and Manuals | Downloads Library | Troubleshooting FAQ


Answer
Specifications for the 160 GB Caviar Blue EIDE drive (WD1600AAJB, WD1600AABB).

Physical Specifications
Model Number WD1600AAJB, WD1600AABB
Formatted Capacity 1 160,041 MB
Used Sectors Per Drive 321,581,808

Interface 40-pin EIDE
Bytes Per Sector 512
Dedicated Landing Zone Yes
Actuator Latch/Auto Park Yes

1 Western Digital defines a megabyte (MB) as 1,000,000 bytes and a gigabyte (GB) as 1,000,000,000 bytes



Performance Specifications
Data Transfer Rate (maximum)
- Buffer to Host
- Buffer to Disk 100 MB/s max (Mode 5 Ultra ATA)2
972 Mbits/s max
Average Read Seek 8.9 ms (average)
Track-to-track Seek3 2.0 ms (average)
Full Stroke Read Seek3 21 ms (average)
Average Latency 4.2 ms
Rotational Speed 7200 RPM
Read Cache Adaptive
Write Cache Yes
Buffer
- WDxxxxAAJB
- WDxxxxAABB
8 MB
2 MB
Drive Ready Time 9.0 sec average
Start/Stop Cycles 50,000 min
Error Rate
(non-recoverable) <1 in 1014 bits read
LBA support Yes

2Maximum burst rate running the specified PIO, DMA, Ultra ATA, or Serial ATA transfer mode.
3 On reads and writes.

Physical Dimensions
Height 1.028 in. (25.4 mm) max
Length 5.787 in. (147.0 mm) max
Width 4.0 in. (101.6 mm) ± .01 in.
Weight 1.07 lb. (0.485 kg) ± 10%

Power Requirements4
Mode 12 V (± 10%) 5 V (± 5%) Power
Read/Write4 280 mA 650 mA 6.61 W
Idle 270 mA 600 mA 6.24 W
Standby 6 mA 180 mA 0.97 W
Sleep 6 mA 180 mA 0.97 W
Spinup 1.5 A 410 mA 17.3 W

420% duty cycle.

Environmental Specifications5
Shock
Operating (2ms) 65G
Non-operating (2ms) 350G (2ms)
Half sine wave measured in 2 ms duration, measured without isolation.
Vibration
Operating - Random 0.004 g2/Hz (10 to 300 Hz)

- Linear 20-300 Hz, 0.75G (0 to peak)

Non-operating - Linear 5-20 Hz, 0.195 inches (dbl amp)
20-500 Hz, 4G (0 to peak)

Operating Temperature and Humidity
Temperature 0°C to 60°C (32°F to 140°F)
Humidity 5-95% RH non-condensing
Thermal Gradient 20°C/hour (maximum)
Non-Operating Temperature and Humidity
Temperature -40°C to 65°C (-40°F to 149°F)
Humidity 5-95% RH non-condensing
Thermal Gradient 30°C/hour (maximum)
Acoustics (average)
Idle Mode6 29 dBA
Seek Mode 06 32 dBA
Seek Mode 36 30 dBA
Warranty Period Warranty Length
5No non-recoverable errors during operating tests or after non-operating tests.
6Sound power level.

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June 18, 2010 5:55:37 PM

roonj said:
Several different options to offer:
First you don't mention what drives these are, ide?, sata?
Second, there are some sequences of incompatibilty between 2 drives, whereas one can be a master and the other a slave but the inverse is not (strict incompatibility-IDE). In some instances this can be overcome by going from master/slave relationship to drive select method. Based on the information you supplied you must be using ide as I'm unaware that this conflict is possible with sata.
Exception: If these are sata drives the only way an incompatibilty could exist is that an identifier classes the 2 drives as the same one to the system.
How? the label may be the same and or the assigned serial no. ( not the manufacturers but the operating system's assigned one.
One of the options with ghost is to copy this information during the transfer.
IF the volume label is the same you can change that easily from command prompt with the command ; label/? for instructions
IF the serial number is still matching you need to (fdisk/mbr) the drive, I know you said you wrote 0/1's but that only clears the storage area and not the label and operating system serial no. good luck no I'm not crazy


All my drives are IDE. Yes I know I have and old system.
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June 18, 2010 5:57:12 PM

evongugg said:
Is this your case?

Computer won't power up with additional hard drive attached

Unfortunately it appears that the drive has been damaged by trying to hot plug the power while the system was on. The circuit board may need replacement.


NMo it is not.
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a b G Storage
June 19, 2010 7:40:18 AM

The controller seems to be at issue here most likely because of inability to relate to two diverse drives on the same ribbon. Lets eliminate what we can.

The Primary controller works with any single drive. Yes
The Primary controller works with matching drives on the same ribbon. Yes
The 80 GB HDD works on the secondary IDE. Yes
Both HDD are operational. Yes
Both Controllers are operational. Yes
Hardware Failure. Very unlikely.
Compatabilty Issue. At this stage the best lead we have.

The LBA and the 137 GB limit issue must be eliminated. The Controller is most likely unable to relate to two seperate drives on different terms on the same Ribbon. You can:

Try another HDD with both of the drives in question.

See if the 160 can be jumpered to drop to 137 GB. Some drives can do this. Back up Data First!! Once it is jumpered then see if they will play nicely together.
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a c 342 G Storage
June 19, 2010 4:09:34 PM

Wamphryi suggests limiting your new 160 Gb unit to 137 GB (128 GB the way M$ counts it) in case the mobo controllers cannot handle drives with and without 48-bit LBA Support on the same port / cable. I would not expect that problem, but maybe it can happen. However, he / she says do it with jumper settings. Can't do that on a WD unit. Seagate has a way to do it on their drives using their diagnostic software because they designed that feature into the HDD's processor board. On the WD website all I could find was a suggestion that, if your mobo cannot support 48-bit LBA you must use their diagnostic package, Data Lifeguard for DOS (on a bootable floppy or CD-R) to Partition the HDD unit to no more than 128 GB.

There are slight technical distinctions here. The Seagate system actually resets the HDD to behave exactly as if its real size is whatever limit you set. With that done, NONE of the HDD space beyond that is available to any OS - as far as any other system knows (even the mobo BIOS), that IS the total size of the HDD unit. The WD website does not make their system's design clear. It may actually do something like that. OR it may merely create a Primary Partition of 128 GB that you can use quite safely on a controller only capable of 28-bit LBA (the older standard), but leave the remaining HDD space simply Unallocated. In truth, if that is all it does you can do that anyway manually when you set the size of the Primary Partition as you create it.

I've been thinking, though, in another direction. Your problem is unusual, which is why no obvious answer is working. The hardware should not behave this way. But what is different from my perspective is that you have used Norton Ghost to do all your cloning work. I have not used that software, so I cannot comment directly on its special quirks. But I am wondering whether that is the source of the problem.

Since you have all WD HDD units, you could download for free and use their Acronis True Image WD Edition package, which among many abilities does cloning. You could then use it to clone your new 160 GB unit, which is working OK, to the older 80 GB unit. This assumes, of course, that the information actually on the 160 GB unit (which originally fit on the 80 GB unit) still occupies less than 80 GB and can fit. Make the clone a bootable one as if you want to substitute the 80 GB HDD for the 160 GB unit as your boot drive. Once that's done, see if that version of the drive will work smoothly in your system - should not matter whether you boot from it or not. I'm just thinking that some small detail of the Partition Table and MBR may be written differently in this process and solve the apparent clash problem.

IF that works and you actually want to be able to use the 80 GB unit as a complete backup drive, you've just found a way. The cloning process can do that, although it will be limited once your 160 GB unit fills up beyond 80 GB. On the other hand IF you just want the 80 GB unit to be a data storage device, you can use the Acronis software again to simply Delete that bootable Primary Partition you created in this cloning process and Create a new Primary Partition that is NOT bootable, Format it, and use it.
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a b G Storage
June 20, 2010 12:41:09 AM

Thanks for that info Paperdoc. In my days of PATA I was a Seagate Barracuda man and those drives were jumper based. I was not certain it was possible to configure the more modern drives in that manner. Controllers can act in mysterious ways which is why I am keen to eliminate the possibility.

Yet I now have a different theory. The thing is that the 160 GB is a system drive. Cloning that to another drive on the same ribbon would present two System Drives to the BIOS on the next reboot. An IDE BIOS will not cope with that scenario. However it can cope with two System Drives if the second drive is on on the secondary controller where it will be accessed as non system drive by the OS.

Bob it would seem has not succeeded in removing the Partition off the 80 GB HDD.

"Ok I tried it but here is my problem When I got to the point to delete the partition I got the following error message.

Page Fault In Non Paged Area. It would not let me continue."

Perhaps when cloning to the 80 GB it damaged the partition in some manner. I recently had a laptop come in that had been subjected to a Pirated XP Install. Needless to say it was restored to its original Vista.

The point of this is that when we went to reinstall Vista the Installation was unable to write information to the HDD and or see partition information. The HDD had been altered in some way by the malware in the bogus XP install. It was either malware or alterations made to XP at a kernel level. The answer was a low level format and everything went fine after that.
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June 20, 2010 1:43:14 PM

Bobz, clear the volumne serial no., clear the label
clear the MBR with xp or earlier, command is fdisk/mbr
delete any partition image left
power down, reboot, create new partition, check that there is no label or volumne serial no.
If that works delete partition and see if you can install as secondary drive without boot fail. If all ok partition and reformat done.
If this proves too complicated you can accomplish the same with Wdigitals software as long as you have a bootable cd/dvd.
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June 21, 2010 3:02:54 AM

Paperdoc said:
Wamphryi suggests limiting your new 160 Gb unit to 137 GB (128 GB the way M$ counts it) in case the mobo controllers cannot handle drives with and without 48-bit LBA Support on the same port / cable. I would not expect that problem, but maybe it can happen. However, he / she says do it with jumper settings. Can't do that on a WD unit. Seagate has a way to do it on their drives using their diagnostic software because they designed that feature into the HDD's processor board. On the WD website all I could find was a suggestion that, if your mobo cannot support 48-bit LBA you must use their diagnostic package, Data Lifeguard for DOS (on a bootable floppy or CD-R) to Partition the HDD unit to no more than 128 GB.

There are slight technical distinctions here. The Seagate system actually resets the HDD to behave exactly as if its real size is whatever limit you set. With that done, NONE of the HDD space beyond that is available to any OS - as far as any other system knows (even the mobo BIOS), that IS the total size of the HDD unit. The WD website does not make their system's design clear. It may actually do something like that. OR it may merely create a Primary Partition of 128 GB that you can use quite safely on a controller only capable of 28-bit LBA (the older standard), but leave the remaining HDD space simply Unallocated. In truth, if that is all it does you can do that anyway manually when you set the size of the Primary Partition as you create it.

I've been thinking, though, in another direction. Your problem is unusual, which is why no obvious answer is working. The hardware should not behave this way. But what is different from my perspective is that you have used Norton Ghost to do all your cloning work. I have not used that software, so I cannot comment directly on its special quirks. But I am wondering whether that is the source of the problem.

Since you have all WD HDD units, you could download for free and use their Acronis True Image WD Edition package, which among many abilities does cloning. You could then use it to clone your new 160 GB unit, which is working OK, to the older 80 GB unit. This assumes, of course, that the information actually on the 160 GB unit (which originally fit on the 80 GB unit) still occupies less than 80 GB and can fit. Make the clone a bootable one as if you want to substitute the 80 GB HDD for the 160 GB unit as your boot drive. Once that's done, see if that version of the drive will work smoothly in your system - should not matter whether you boot from it or not. I'm just thinking that some small detail of the Partition Table and MBR may be written differently in this process and solve the apparent clash problem.

IF that works and you actually want to be able to use the 80 GB unit as a complete backup drive, you've just found a way. The cloning process can do that, although it will be limited once your 160 GB unit fills up beyond 80 GB. On the other hand IF you just want the 80 GB unit to be a data storage device, you can use the Acronis software again to simply Delete that bootable Primary Partition you created in this cloning process and Create a new Primary Partition that is NOT bootable, Format it, and use it.


I did try the Acronis True Image WD Edition package and got an error saying "GetDriveLayout: CreateFileFail. Access is denied".
I then spoke to WD tier 2 support again and they said it was because I was trying to go from a 160 to and 80.

My next call was to Acronis and I was told that the WD version might have that turned off as far as cloning from a larger drive to a smaller drive.
The full version would work.

I also looked at the file placement on the 160 after it was cloned from my 80 and noticed that a most of the data was in the middle of the drive and not at the beginning. I then ran Microsofts Disk Defrag but it left the files in the same place.

I then downloaded Defraggler by Pinform and ran it. It took a long time because it moved a ton of files. Now my files arre at the start of the drive.

What I plan to do next is borrow a drive and try to do another clone. I have my 80 now on the secondary IDE channel as master. At least I can back up my data.

The bottom line is that I really need a new modern system with sata drives. My current system has served me well for almost 5 years.
I really want a custom system built but just don't have the money right now to get it done.



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June 21, 2010 3:14:54 PM

You mentioned that you now have it as a slave to your CD/DVD burner drive. Can you format the drive now in Disk Management or does it still give you that "Page Fault in Non Paged Area" error?

We assume that disk failure is unlikely, but have you ran S.M.A.R.T tests to definitively rule out the possibility of drive failure after the ghost?
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June 21, 2010 3:36:46 PM

ohsonoob said:
You mentioned that you now have it as a slave to your CD/DVD burner drive. Can you format the drive now in Disk Management or does it still give you that "Page Fault in Non Paged Area" error?

We assume that disk failure is unlikely, but have you ran S.M.A.R.T tests to definitively rule out the possibility of drive failure after the ghost?



Yes it is now formatted.
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a b G Storage
June 21, 2010 9:24:19 PM

A good way to make the jump from PATA to SATA is to buy a SATA Controller that will slot into one of your PCI slots. That way when you buy drives you can future proof with SATA drives. When you finally get a new motherboard etc you have the drives for the job. If you buy the right board (or controller) you can use RAID 1 (Mirror) to have redundancy without having to resort to Ghost. If you like having images of your OS then Win 7 Pro (and to a lesser degree Home Premium) has the ability to dump an image of itself onto a drive or network location without so much as a reboot.
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January 14, 2012 8:15:31 PM

Altho I am sure Bob has moved on, I thought I'd share my experience here. I was having the same exact issue as Bob. I read this thread - tried and failed to get my 160G to boot as master with my data-filled 80G as slave. I gave up. Booted my computer - AND IT WORKED!!! Don't ask me why, but here is how I (accidentally) left my computer set up when it worked.

The 80G is jumped as master.
The 160G is jumped as slave.
I plugged the "master" cable into the 160G
and the "slave" cable into the 80G.
I set my BIOS to boot in this order:
CD
HDD-1
HDD-0
Floppy

When I turned the computer on, the BIOS saw the 80G as primary master and the 160G as primary slave. At this point, I was ready to work in that scenario. But when WinXP came up, it was the 160G screensaver! I went to Explorer and the 160G was drive C: and the 80G was drive D: this is what I'd been trying to accomplish for 8 days before I gave up! At some point Windows "found" and "installed" new hardware (the 80G? the 160? some invisible thing? Don't know).

Anyways.... for what it's worth, this might help someone else.

Happy computing....
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May 25, 2012 8:28:21 AM

Well I'm damned!!! Completely counter-intuitive but it worked. Thanks a million Starlight. I only spent a couple of days fooling around and getting nowhere except that I found your message.

Short summary, it worked for me too. I had exactly the same problem with Windows XP and your hint solved the problem.

Wonderful.

With kind regards,


Peter R Jensen in Sydney, Australia
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May 27, 2012 4:38:14 AM

Peter J said:
Well I'm damned!!! Completely counter-intuitive but it worked. Thanks a million Starlight. I only spent a couple of days fooling around and getting nowhere except that I found your message.

Short summary, it worked for me too. I had exactly the same problem with Windows XP and your hint solved the problem.

Wonderful.

With kind regards,


Peter R Jensen in Sydney, Australia


Hello Peter,

It's great to know that my post (and my 8 days of misery!) benefited someone else... on the other side of the planet even! (California here)

Until I got all of my programs "installed" on the 160G, if I needed to run a program "installed" on my 80G, I will go to BIOS and set it to read HDD-0 first. At this point it boots up my 80G, I do what I need to do, reboot and set the BIOS back to read HDD-1 first and am on my way again.

Cheers!
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March 19, 2013 9:47:20 AM

Jonmor68 said:
Have you tried setting the drives to cable select? Alternatively swap the slave drive to the secondry chanel.


Three years later... but for me Cable Selct (CS) did the trick!!!
THNX!

Frans
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