Intel vs Nvidia - whos right!

[dragonsprayer]

Well nvidia has sued intel, nvidia's cross licence agreement as all know expired and nvidia did not get it renewed due to dirty dealing in SLI back 3 years ago when it pulled support for SLI from 975x chipsets.

After nvidia got its intel licience it then did not renew intels licience - intel never files suit or really publically went after nvidia they just waited patiently for nvidias licience to expire.

Incase you do not know, early intel based X975 chipset mobos where both crossfire and SLI ready - nvidia blocked it. Also nvidia made statements like "intel does not know how to make chipsets" among other things!


fox business says: "SAN FRANCISCO -- Nvidia Corp. said late Thursday it is countersuing Intel Corp. over a chipset contract dispute. Last month, Intel sued Nvidia claiming a 2004 chipset agreement did not give Nvidia the right to make chipsets that are compatible with new Intel semiconductors with "integrated" memory controllers. "Nvidia did not initiate this legal dispute," said Jen-Hsun Huang, Nvidia president and chief executive, in a statement. "But we must defend ourselves and the rights we negotiated for when we provided Intel access to our valuable patents. Intel's actions are intended to block us from making use of the very license rights that they agreed to provide."


Copyright © 2009 MarketWatch, Inc."



google search: http://news.google.com/news?pz=1&ned=us&cf=all&ncl=1321091102

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Intel goes after AMD, and in doing so, violates the terms of its license with AMD. Sound familiar? I think Intels trying to send a message

 

[dragonsprayer]

I like to add this is big beef of mine, i was caught up in this when it happened we even used hacked sli drivers -- this of coarse was no good as soon as new cards came out and there was no updated driver support.



the move by nvidia forced us to use nvidia chipsets which ran hot and not as fast with dual core cpu's. Then quad cores ran even woarse with nvidia chipset. Anyone who builds knows that the 690i, 780i where trirrible quad overclocking chipsets and the.

The P5N-e many use with the 650s chipset the max fsb was 1400fsb if you wanted a 100% stable system and you need to add fans to the nb. In the dark ati R600 days if you wanted a multi gpu cablity you where forced to use the nvidia chipsets and 800GTX over priced at up to $800 for a water cooled BFG.

Nvidia golden days would close as ATI moved to new cooler running 3870 then the 4870 series and quad cores and intel chipsets became much more popular.

 

[dragonsprayer]

Intel goes after AMD, and in doing so, violates the terms of its license with AMD. Sound familiar? I think Intels trying to send a message

intel did not go after amd - the pulled the x86 licence and rightly so since amd sold the fab and is essentially not making cpu's

Dubai is making cpu's - i mean do we really want intel technolgy going to the people (close to it) of 911?

intel did not go after amd- amd violated the x86 agreement



ibm dictated the x86 agreement with 8088/8086 production - ibm created microsoft, intel, amd, and many others with the pc

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Keeping things to oneself can cause problems for others, like SSE4. Businesses arent interested in the consumer, just themselves

 

[dragonsprayer]

well nvidia is very anti consumer - they hold stuff and anti competitive in general

intel is like a book - tic tok they explain the road map years into the future and avoid being anti competitive due their near monopoly in cpu's. they are consumer oriented in they are predicted and price competitive

amd is crazy and marketing is what ever goes - they appear to consumer oriented if possible but who knows - you got like amd!

ati has always been a consumer friendly


remember the nvidia cheating fiasco years ago - now the physics drivers cheating with 3dmark - the sli pull from intel, holding back and raising prices with the G80

 

[exit2dos]

As I understand it, AMD and Intel are free to use each other's x86 extensions and enhancements (Though, this current Intel/AMD litigation may change things).

AMD chose not to use the full SSE4 instruction set. They went with a small subset (SSE4a) as they focused on SSE5. IIRC, it was AMD's choice - not Intel holding out on them.

As far as nVidia vs Intel: I haven't seen the details of what nVidia is suing for - ie, Do they just want the right to make chipsets, or are they trying to revoke some rights Intel has licensed? With so many patents out there, it's hard to say if Intel is using other nVidia IP other than SLI.

I'll have to wait for more details to come out. One one hand, nVidia may have a valid argument. On the other hand, Jen-Hsun Huang sometimes gets, shall we say, "excitable".

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

My point is, Intel does what nVidia does what AMD does.... they hold back their IP for their own advantage, and in doing so, one company shouldnt be raised in higher regard than another. Intel has been found guilty of a few things in courts of law, illegal business practices. Should we condemn Intel for that fact? nVidia and driver tweaks, selct games with new drivers, etc etc, then you have AMD, and their claims of the first Phenom.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

or USB, or GeForce3 or.... you can go on and on. In courts of law, thats where itll be decided, like in Korea, or the EU concerning M$

 

[The Third Level]

My point is, Intel does what nVidia does what AMD does.... they hold back their IP for their own advantage, and in doing so, one company shouldnt be raised in higher regard than another. Intel has been found guilty of a few things in courts of law, illegal business practices. Should we condemn Intel for that fact? nVidia and driver tweaks, selct games with new drivers, etc etc, then you have AMD, and their claims of the first Phenom.

Claims with the first Phenom? Im sure that hyping a product that ends up sucky isnt illegal.

 

[dragonsprayer]

my point is nvidia does blatantly anti-consumer stuff like banning intel chipsets from sli for 3 years until they had to switch <acutally i guess i am still pissed on my 975x and others who we built

this really hurts some user and customers -

nvidia held the 200 back until they needed to one up ati

the sold overheating chipsets and lost their butts on notebooks when they failed but they ran hot in desktops too

nvidia wants to write the rules - intel makes the atom and wants to package it with a chipset its their product. nvidia want to force them to sell the cpu by itself - buy the chipset toss it in the garbage, like i toss psu and fans out of cases!

enough people bitch, itnel will flip and the atom and nvidia gets it way

i am sure they make special drivers for evga mobos for triple sli at asus's expense, and they tweak the physics engine for their gpu's in testing - i guess this is not much different then intel tweaking the bios for qaud cores and chipsets

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Regarding SSE4, Im right, as both companies were doing exactly whats being done here
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=719
PS 5 comes after 4

 

[mamw93]

Well if Intel and NVidia had an agreement then NVidia should have kept their end of the deal.

 

[joefriday]

nvidia makes some solid chipsets, and although at times they may not be number one with graphics cards, their drivers for the most part have always been up to date and more bug free than ATI. Their geforce 7 mgpu for Intel processors chipset has been actually very stable on my Biostar motherboard, and I get a better IGP than Intel's GMA offerings at that price point. I only wish the 9xxx series of IGP mobos for intel processors was more popular with the mobo makers. i only see a handful on Newegg, and the time is rapidly approaching that the chipset will be a thing of the past with the move to mainstream i5. Seems the 9xxx IGP mobos for intel CPUs will disappear before they ever become plentiful or super cheap, just like nforce2 chipsets for socket A AMD. Sigh...

Anyway, I'm a big fan of nvidia chipsets and GPUs. I hope they get to stick around and innovate on the i5/i7 platforms.

 

[dragonsprayer]

Well if Intel and NVidia had an agreement then NVidia should have kept their end of the deal.

intel did not getting a counter agreement - i think the sli pull caught them surprise as it did me with x975 mobos and intel waited and pulled a nvidia

here we are today

after nvidia lacked 780 support at first

finally no i7 support at all - nvidia is forced so sue or be locked out of potential 85% of the cpu market and new and upcoming note book i7 or i5 cpus

 

[dragonsprayer]

nvidia makes some solid chipsets, and although at times they may not be number one with graphics cards, their drivers for the most part have always been up to date and more bug free than ATI. Their geforce 7 mgpu for Intel processors chipset has been actually very stable on my Biostar motherboard, and I get a better IGP than Intel's GMA offerings at that price point. I only wish the 9xxx series of IGP mobos for intel processors was more popular with the mobo makers. i only see a handful on Newegg, and the time is rapidly approaching that the chipset will be a thing of the past with the move to mainstream i5. Seems the 9xxx IGP mobos for intel CPUs will disappear before they ever become plentiful or super cheap, just like nforce2 chipsets for socket A AMD. Sigh...

Anyway, I'm a big fan of nvidia chipsets and GPUs. I hope they get to stick around and innovate on the i5/i7 platforms.

for top of the line quad core overclocked gaming rigs - total garbage very hot, unstable and low speed

qx6700, q6600, q6600 go, early q9550/9450

only the latest 780i are good - early 790i where garbage too

then again we push cpu to the sweet spot and nvidia can not match intel i.e a qx6700 or q6600 over 3.4ghz they where not usable.

not only that we had lots of failures and mutliple failures - bad pci-e slots, crashed mobos, locked mobo's

tweaking to 3.4ghz+ 100% stable with 680i was a 2 day event - intel it was 2 min event

very inconsistent settings on one board of the same type and brand did not work on similar mobos

i loved the newegg reviews, (typical 4 star review) evga tech support is so good i am on 4th mobo and they got it here super fast -- similar asus (2 star review) this mobo sucks i never use asus a again <first failure

 

[jimmysmitty]

Intel goes after AMD, and in doing so, violates the terms of its license with AMD. Sound familiar? I think Intels trying to send a message

Not familiar at all really. What is happening here is nVidia screwed Intel so now that the licsense has expired it is up to Intel to decide to let it renew or not. nVidia can't really claim anything the other way TBH.

What happened with Intel and AMD is more on the IP side than this. AMD is using x86. Even thier x86-64 is still x86 based. So Intel has the right to protect that technology from being thrown out to some other company if it is in breach of the agreement. I think if AMD kept 50%+ of the Foundry it would be fine. But since, from what I have heard, AMD is now only in possesion of 30%+/- due to some switching on Dubais part its not owned by AMD thus they cannot have them make the CPUs.

but thats all from my eyes and whats been spread.

Anywho, whats up with you JD in everytime something comes up for Intel you talk about the AMD/Intel x86 crap? We all know what will happen. AMD and Intel will talk it over and in the end something will come to an agreement. This on the otehr hand will end up different. nVidia is very stingey. They want SLI to themselves so they can force customers to buy their chipsets and make money.

Think of it this way. AMD has the power to leave CF to just their CPUs. Or they could leave it to their chipsets forcing Intel to allow ATI chipsets. But instead they allow Intel to use it on their chipsets. Why is that? its because they know they will make more money off of Intel chipsets than their won. The main rason is because the Intel chipsets are the best for Intel CPUs. I can't count the number of people I know who wish they had gone with a Intel chipset (and ATI card) instead of a nVidia chipset.

 

[mi1ez]

Dubai is making cpu's - i mean do we really want intel technolgy going to the people (close to it) of 911?

What a clueless, ridiculous, and quite frankly racist comment!

Stick with the computers if you don't understand politics.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Think of it this way. Its all business. 1 company doesnt want another company (GF) to use its IP. Really, its as simple as that. Im actually for that, in the AMD case, because Im not at all comfortable with GF doing this, as it could lead to other problems. But I also believe this could never happen, and Intel is just p1$$1n in the wind on this, and is more sending an overall message, like they are to nVidia to not mess with us, knowing the EU is soon to start next year.
I mean, cmon, do you REALLY believe that GF would be able to get away with using 86 IP?

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Having Ion, having GF, both effect Intel, either now, or down the road. To send a message down the channel, as Intel is now doing, is in Intels interests, not only directly concerning each lawsuit/dispute, but indirectly, as to how vendors, OEMs etc will respond down the road. Its unfortunately good business practice from Intel, and the unfortunarely comes from the part where the lawyers always win in the end no matter what
PS : To all the lawyers out there, you dont need my love, just go hug your money

 

[roofus]

Dont have to like it or agree with it but Intel does have some brilliant people guarding their IP. I don't like to see innovation stifled but if it were my company and hard such a death grip on the market I would probably look at it different.
JDJ as alot of times before put it proper perspective. This isnt about what Intel fears now. The legal ramblings and petitions, threats, etc are to do their level best to make sure they remain the most significant player in the game. They dont want AMD to grow, the want Nvidia to die or become something they can grab in a fire sale at some point.
I think the biggest problem for Intel is they are becoming a more public bully. We all knew they play some dirty pool with AMD and Nvidia (along with many others). It is just becoming so public now that they could create a monster of a public perception problem at some point. Makes court cases harder to win when the general public sees you as a scoundrel.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Which has been a point of mine where Intel just doesnt get it. No one cares if you become rich, when obviously youve earned it, as is the case with Intel, but if/when the perseption turns, and its about power, people tend to change their minds. Im NOT saying Intel doesnt have a totally legal basis in all this, as anything can be argued, as our old dear prez once said, "it depends on what is , is", or in other words, is it worthy of arguing the point or not, since it can and will at some point be seen as redundant bullying

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Things like nVidia announcement of possibly entering into the cpu business and this http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20090327PD204.html
Im sure drives Intels motions as well

 

[MarkG]

nvidia wants to write the rules - intel makes the atom and wants to package it with a chipset its their product. nvidia want to force them to sell the cpu by itself - buy the chipset toss it in the garbage, like i toss psu and fans out of cases!

Force?

Hands up all those who actually want the crappy Intel chipset in their Atom system?

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Intel, to a point , has neglected their chipset functionality like the red headed ugly step child, just for certain functions, like they have their IGPs. Tell me, if they hadnt, how much more would the ATOM not only be a bigger seller, but Intel wouldnt be so reticent about its usage? Im mainly saying power usage, but theres a few other things involved as well