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From Air to Water, Worth it?

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June 5, 2010 9:00:23 PM

Hi,

Ive been running for the last 6 months, an i7-920 @ 4.0GHz with Tri GTX260 216 OCd to 725/1150/1450.

This has been housed in a Antec P193 Case, using a Corsair H-50 Cooler (in Push/Pull) (intake at rear, out via top)

I live in the UK, and ambiant temp in room is ~28deg (far to hot). PC will idel at 47deg but increase to 85 under prime. Unfortunatly I built this around xmas when ambiant was ~15deg and PC was nice and happy.

My grfx cards will run at 100% load at approx 55deg (they are force fed masses amounts of air due to the case design).

If I was to change this to a water cooling set up to cool both the i7 and the Tri SLI set up, would I realistically be seeing a marked decrease in temperature? I would guess that my core temp would decrease but my grfx temps increase.

I would also like the WC setup to be completly internal, which would severly limit the amount of cases that are available for this, so far I believe, only the Antec 1200 (120.3 + 120.2) and Silverstone TJ-07 (120.4 + 120.2) can accomplish this. The 800D requires alot of modding, that coupled with the price tag makes it a no no.

Please also be advised I currently run a 4 disk array and would very much also like to keep these, and if possible some space for a pair of SSDs down the line.

I've read alot of articles saying that 120.3 is really needed for an i7 @ 4.0GHz, so would 120.2 be enough to remove the heat from a Tri SLI Setup (overclocked this far?).

Could 1 loop handle it with a good pump? Assuming 120.2 wouldn't remove enough heat from the grfx cards and the fact that it requires 2nd pump / 2nd resevoir and space is going to be severly limited.

Advice really welcome.

More about : air water worth

a b K Overclocking
June 6, 2010 12:01:21 AM

You will need a dual loop. 3x 260's is too much to keep in a loop with another hot running component. Have a good 120x2 rad with a good pump and water block on the CPU, and then at least a 120x4 rad, a great pump, and either just core or full cover blocks on each of the GPUs.

I'm not sure how much WCing prices are over in the UK, but you're looking at spending a lot of money. A good pump runs around $60, a great pump $75+, a 120x2 rad will run about $50-60, a 120x4 rad at least $75. Water block for the CPU will be at least $65. As for GPU water blocks, you can either get a block for the just the cores, then heatsinks for the RAM, VRMs, etc, or you can get a full cover block.

GPU core blocks will run about $60-75 apiece, heatsinks, guesstimating $15 per card, full cover blocks are board specific and will run at least $100 each.

Then there's tubing and fittings to take into account. But the good news is you only need one res!

My advice is to really think it over. Do your homework. Read stickies. Look at models. Figure out your price range. Read more! Then make a decision.
a b K Overclocking
June 6, 2010 1:06:16 AM

^+1. You pretty much need a dual loop. WCing just the CPU will set you back about $250 or so using top of the line parts. I'd say at least $350-400 for WCing the GPUs usisng full cover blocks.

Quote:
PC will idel at 47deg but increase to 85 under prime.

You may want to try and re-seat the H50 and see. In most benches I'v seen, the H50 hit about 76C-80C at 4Ghz. What's surprising is your Tri-SLI GPUs are running quite a lot cooler than expected and yet your CPUs running pretty damn hot.
Related resources
a b K Overclocking
June 6, 2010 1:52:31 AM

Well, when I had an H50, at 3.8Ghz on a Xeon (had a lower VID than most regular i7s), with push/pull in an open bench was getting 80C, and at 4GHz, was hitting 85C (all with an ambient temp of 24C). Mine was on 1156, though, with his being 1366, though I doubt it is that much of a change. There are a lot of variables.
a b K Overclocking
June 6, 2010 2:02:26 AM

jedimasterben said:
Well, when I had an H50, at 3.8Ghz on a Xeon (had a lower VID than most regular i7s), with push/pull in an open bench was getting 80C, and at 4GHz, was hitting 85C (all with an ambient temp of 24C). Mine was on 1156, though, with his being 1366, though I doubt it is that much of a change. There are a lot of variables.

I was getting 76ºC on a 980x at 4.0 Ghz, open bench, 24ºC room.
That was only 5ºC better than the stock cooler.
a b K Overclocking
June 6, 2010 2:04:24 AM

It being 32nm probably helped that, they run so much cooler right off the bat. What cooling are you using now?
a b K Overclocking
June 6, 2010 3:31:08 AM

jedimasterben said:
It being 32nm probably helped that, they run so much cooler right off the bat. What cooling are you using now?

On the 980x ?
EK Supreme HF / MCP 350 w/XSPC top / MCR 220 Res
a b K Overclocking
June 6, 2010 3:41:21 AM

Nice. Should be getting some sweet temps from that.
a b K Overclocking
June 6, 2010 3:49:34 AM

It's been hell trying to keep the room temps stable, so the cpu temps have been all over the place.
Have it at 4.4 Ghz with 69ºC in a 22ºC room.
Don't know if your interested but Frozencpu is clearing out the Feser 480 for $80, ordered 2 last night, 1 for each system.
a b K Overclocking
June 6, 2010 3:55:13 AM

Damn! I JUST bought the Swiftech MCR420-something-something for $80 last week! If I had the spare money now, I'd order one and send mine back to Jabtech.

And as for room temps, my A/C coil is full of holes and leaks freon, and is now completely out. I live in South Florida, and the outside temp is usually 95F during the day. In my house, my computer room usually hits 88F. :(  I have someone coming Monday to add more freon though, thank God.
a b K Overclocking
June 6, 2010 3:59:37 AM

We've been seeing high 80's low 90's here on the Jersey coast.
It'll date me a little, but my grandkids are coming up from Tampa next week.
June 6, 2010 8:35:50 AM

VCore on CPU runs at 1.288volts (P6T6 WS Revolution), the H50 was re-seated about 4 weeks ago. (I will re-seat this again today and recheck temps) ***edited*** Just checked the rear Rad it was solid with dust, so have cleaned that out now and temps are slightly under 80. However one of the rads threads is now dead so will have to change it. What do i do? New H50? Antec 1200 + TRUE? Antec 1200 + 120.2 1 Loop WC CPU? *** end of edit***

Maybe i'm an idiot, but spending ($250(CPU Loop) + $400(GPU Loop) + $200(Case)) is just not even close to economically justifiable. P.S $850 = £550

This is also taking in to account that the GPU temps really wont be affected. So what I am thinking, is replacing the case with an Antec 1200, using the drive callies to force feed the GPUs masses amounf of air and only add 1 loop for the CPU.

Will use a 120.2 rad covering the rear exhaust fans with a good pump and a 1U resevoir.

Workable?
June 6, 2010 8:45:35 AM

Quote:
PC will idel at 47deg but increase to 85 under prime.
You may want to try and re-seat the H50 and see. In most benches I'v seen, the H50 hit about 76C-80C at 4Ghz. What's surprising is your Tri-SLI GPUs are running quite a lot cooler than expected and yet your CPUs running pretty damn hot.


This is because their are 2 Antec Tri Cool fans in Pull / Pull setup before they get the the GPUs, with the GPU Fans at 100% thier is a mini tornado comming out the back of the expansion slots. I also believe that my ~+30% OCd GPUs run alot cooler than most standard clock GPUs. So i'm really happy the the GPU temps.

Unfortuanatly the H50 is about the only 'decent' cooler than can be used in the case due to the limited height available (the side fan mount pertrudes 3/4inch inside the chassis).

a b K Overclocking
June 6, 2010 3:00:13 PM

In my opinion, I think that you should keep your current case and do the CPU loop, if you really want to step up to full water. Your rad will be on the outside, but you can attach the radiator on the top exhaust fans and have two on top of that pulling out of the rad. Add a shroud to it (or make one) and put some nice fan grilles on the top of the two fans, and it will actually look pretty good.

A 120x2 rad should be more than enough to cool a 4GHz i7 with HT, especially in push/pull. I would have push/pull on my 120x4 rad if I could have gotten another fan controller, and I'm still considering it!

Your case already has the hole thingies to put tubing through, so that's definitely a plus. A res and pump could go just about anywhere in there (that case looks like it has a ton of space).
a b K Overclocking
June 6, 2010 6:34:16 PM

^ You want a 320 rad for OCed i7s imo.
June 6, 2010 7:12:05 PM

Think I will switch to a TJ09 and do 1 loop for the CPU with 120.2(internal using Silverstones rad bracket), as iI really dont like this P193 (its really not as big as photos make it look).

I will still get good GPU cooling, and can add additional 120.1 (x2) rads at a latter stage if I choose, (one on the GPU intake fan, one on the 120 exhaust fan).

Would rather use either 1 1U or 2U resevoir, gonna go look up for parts,
June 6, 2010 7:54:47 PM

Pump: Swiftech MCP655,
CPU block: Swiftech Apogee XT CPU Block

But suggestions on Radiator and Resevoir (preferably 1U or 2U - so that modding and drilling not required) that will fit the TJ09 please?
a b K Overclocking
June 6, 2010 8:22:53 PM

Shadow703793 said:
^ You want a 320 rad for OCed i7s imo.

I think that a 120x2 with push/pull may not be optimal, but will still cool it better than an air cooler would. A 120x3 is the best option, but with the OP's case, 120x2 will have to do.

OP: Even if you get the TJ09, you may or may not be able to keep the radiator AND fans inside the case, I don't think it has enough clearance for a rad and fans until hitting the motherboard.
June 6, 2010 8:35:58 PM

Ok, using a TJ09, why cant i mount a 120.2 + 120.1, can you even run 2 rads in 1 loop? (i would guess so)

Quick question, if a 120.2 is not optimal, how can the 120.1 H50 cool the unit to a good extent?
a b K Overclocking
June 6, 2010 9:13:16 PM

I had not seen that, so it looks like you'll just skate by with 25mm deep fans! Huzzah!

Yes, you can run multiple rads in a single loop, that's not a problem. I hadn't seen where you were gonna add a 120x1 in there. :D 

The H50, as you have seen, can keep the temps, when pushed to 4+Ghz, around 80-85C. Even with a 120x2 rad (not in production, just a test sample a friend has) lowers temp by around 10C, but that's mixed with the same weak pump of the H50.

Now with a regular pump, that same system with a 120x2 rad would probably bring the temp down to to 65C range. A 120x3 rad would bring the temp down to the 40s.

Sound about right Shadow? You've been watercooling for a lot longer than I have.
June 6, 2010 9:36:22 PM

You can mount the 120.1 here:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/system-builder-mara...
You could prolly mount it on the 120mm exhaust fan as well if you really wanted,

This would give a total of 120.3 for CPU only, and could at a later stage when i dont have 3 fking gpus (and the cost associated with them) use a radbox and mount another 120.3 at the rear of the chassis for gpu cooling.

From looking around, reading forums etc, I would assume a Swiftech H20-220 would actually do quite a good job for cooling the CPU, also can pick it up for about $200 in the UK (clearly I would pay for it in £) hehe.

The Switfech H20-220 was used in Marches SBM 3000 rig, here:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/performance-pc-ssd,...

The Res is not really what I would be looking for but the Pump / Block and Rad are. Any suggestions on a 1U or 2U (5.25 drive bay) res?
a b K Overclocking
June 6, 2010 10:28:22 PM

jedimasterben said:

The H50, as you have seen, can keep the temps, when pushed to 4+Ghz, around 80-85C. Even with a 120x2 rad (not in production, just a test sample a friend has) lowers temp by around 10C, but that's mixed with the same weak pump of the H50.

The pump/block of the H50 isn't to bad
See my post here
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/281732-28-diamond-res...
a b K Overclocking
June 6, 2010 11:46:46 PM

@ Cygone: As for a res, I don't have much knowledge on the matter, I'm currently using a small fish bowl :)  (I have an open test bench my computer is on, so I don't have any real space restrictions).

I assume that pretty much any one you can find will suffice, something tells me that there's not much to a res! ;) 

@delluser1: That's pretty cool, I had always heard from several people that the pump on the H50 wasn't good enough to take full use a 120x2 rad. Thanks for showing me that. Sometimes its nice to be shaken from what I've known :) 
June 7, 2010 6:26:53 PM

For a stop gap I have moved the H50 120.1 rad to the GPU cooler fan, and now have it running 2 push 1 pull set up, it has lowered my temps to about 38idel, so thats will surfice untill the real 'summer hits'.

In the mean time i will start 'collecting' the parts required for the new WC system.

Thank you for all your help Jedi, much appreciated.
a b K Overclocking
June 7, 2010 8:04:57 PM

It's no problem, anything to help someone out! Good luck on your full system, and post back when you've got some results!
June 19, 2010 6:22:11 PM

I ended up goingh for an Antec 1200, mounted the 120.3 vertically at the front with NO modding other than a little cut on one of the fan mounts. (I actually used 2 Antec 1200s, nicked the cages out of the 2nd and RMAd it)

This also includes a 4 disc array

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