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Who knows Intel, please help here to a novice...

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January 1, 2009 8:59:16 PM

Hello all,

First of all I must say I opened a discussion recently on this forum (here) on building a new system based on AMD. Lunyone and other people helped me so much to develop and optimize it.. But, I am back again with a new set of questions... I hope I don't give you a headache. Some guys are telling me to build the system based on intel. Nowadays, intels are performing quite well compared to amds, on gaming and other works. What do you think?? I quickly built a system, tell me your comments on it, please, especially on MOBO... I would like to take my only shot and build a system with performance to price ratio as higher as possible. So I need your help... AMD vs INTEL built..


INTEL - E8500 C2D
PALIT - HD4830
GIGABYTE - EP35C-DS3R
KINGSTON HYPERX - 2x1 GB DUAL DDR2 1066
SEAGATE - 500 GB SATA2 32 MB NCQ

(Assuming I have 460 W Cooler Master PSU, Case with 12 cm fan and LG DVD-Writer )

More about : intel novice

January 1, 2009 9:10:31 PM

In all of the posts I didn't really see what you wanted to do with the build. If you post what you want to do then it would be easier to give advice. I would build a gaming rig differently from a PC that would mainly be used for encoding or rendering.
January 1, 2009 9:20:10 PM

I will not be encoding or rendering... Almost none. I will usually use it for gaming... I will be using some programs like MATLAB but not so much. Usually for fun..

Thanks!
Related resources
January 1, 2009 9:33:48 PM

1. DO NOT GET THAT MOTHERBOARD. The P35C chipset is known to have issues with RAM compatibility. Do your self a favor and get on of these boards:
P45-UD3L
P45-DS3R
P45-UD3R
P45-DS3L
P45 P5Q Pro (Enable CrossFire)
P45-UD3P (Enables CrossFire)

2. DO NOT use that CoolerMaster PSU. It is low quality. Get a quality PSU from Corsair, PC Power & Cooling, Antec, OCZ. For your build I recommend the Corsair 650TX or PC Power & Cooling 610 (assuming you will CrossFire). Else a Corsair 450VX/550VX.

3. Depending how much you run MatLab consider getting a Quad core. ie Q6600.

4. What is the total budget?

5. Are you willing to OC?
a b å Intel
January 1, 2009 9:55:24 PM

The "C" designates a DDR2/DDR3 combo board. That is ugly, since you can't use both types of ram at the same time. Any of the other gigabyte boards mentioned would be fine. Don't paqy more for features that you don't plan to use. Start by looking at the DS3L.

Go to the ram vendor's web site, and access their configurator.
Corsair, Kingston, Patriot, OCZ and others have them.
Their compatibility list is more current than the motherboard vendor's QVL lists which rarely get updated.
Enter your mobo or PC, and get a list of compatible ram sticks.

Core 2 cpu's are not very sensitive to ram speeds.
If you look at real application and game benchmarks(vs. synthetic tests),
you will see negligible difference in performance between the slowest and fastest ram.
Perhaps 1-2%. Not worth it to me.
Don't pay extra for faster ram or better timings unless you are a maximum overclocker.

You are better served by a 4gb kit od DDR@0800 ram. You can get corsair now for $25 after rebate. A no brainer.

For gaming, spend your dollars on the best vga card you can afford. Skimp on the case if you have to.
Back off to a E8400 perhaps. It will drive even a 4870 decently.
January 1, 2009 10:09:30 PM

Shadow703793 said:
1. DO NOT GET THAT MOTHERBOARD. The P35C chipset is known to have issues with RAM compatibility. Do your self a favor and get on of these boards:
P45-UD3L
P45-DS3R
P45-UD3R
P45-DS3L
P45 P5Q Pro (Enable CrossFire)
P45-UD3P (Enables CrossFire)

2. DO NOT use that CoolerMaster PSU. It is low quality. Get a quality PSU from Corsair, PC Power & Cooling, Antec, OCZ. For your build I recommend the Corsair 650TX or PC Power & Cooling 610 (assuming you will CrossFire). Else a Corsair 450VX/550VX.

3. Depending how much you run MatLab consider getting a Quad core. ie Q6600.

4. What is the total budget?

5. Are you willing to OC?


I am replying in different order for the sake of the answers...

4. Total budget is about 750-800 usd

1. Here I can buy,

MSI - P45 PLATINUM........166usd
MSI - P45 NEO2-FR........ 139usd
MSI - P45 NEO3-FR........ 120usd
MSI - P45 NEO-F........ 105usd
MSI - P43 NEO-F........ 89usd
GIGABYTE - GA-EP45-DS3R........ 147usd
ASUS - P5Q SE-R........ 125usd

For others I have to search and I will...

2. I will not make any crossfire for now. I cant afford it. Can't I stay in the safer side till I get money for a PSU, like three-five months?
5. I will not OC in near future.. At least for making OC I need to increase the budget which I cannot for now.
3. Not so much I will be using. Even in my workplace a dual core @ 2.66 can make it..

Thank you so much!



January 1, 2009 10:18:47 PM

geofelt said:
The "C" designates a DDR2/DDR3 combo board. That is ugly, since you can't use both types of ram at the same time. Any of the other gigabyte boards mentioned would be fine. Don't paqy more for features that you don't plan to use. Start by looking at the DS3L..


What about this: Gigabyte EP45-DS3L ? I have found this here and I can afford that...

geofelt said:

Go to the ram vendor's web site, and access their configurator.
Corsair, Kingston, Patriot, OCZ and others have them.
Their compatibility list is more current than the motherboard vendor's QVL lists which rarely get updated.
Enter your mobo or PC, and get a list of compatible ram sticks.


OK, I will do that. I know Kingston has that feature, others I need to find out..

geofelt said:

You are better served by a 4gb kit od DDR@0800 ram. You can get corsair now for $25 after rebate. A no brainer.
.


Do you think 800 Mhz is OK and enough? What about 1066??

geofelt said:

Back off to a E8400 perhaps. It will drive even a 4870 decently.

This will save me for $20... Do you think I should do that?

Thanks.
January 1, 2009 10:34:46 PM

1. Ok, so since no CrossFire get the P45-DS3L. Make sure if you are getting any Gigabyte board DO NOT INSTALL DES software. It's a good board.

2. Yes DDR2 800 is enough.

3. Yes, go down to a E8400.

4. Seriously though, consider getting a better PSU ASAP if you are on a very tight budget. Since you won't CrossFire a Corsair 400CX will do the job fine. Or select one of the good PSUs listed here:
http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.aspx?i...

========
@OP: Where are you buying from?
January 1, 2009 10:45:34 PM

Shadow703793 said:
1. Ok, so since no CrossFire get the P45-DS3L. Make sure if you are getting any Gigabyte board DO NOT INSTALL DES software. It's a good board.

4. Seriously though, consider getting a better PSU ASAP if you are on a very tight budget. Since you won't CrossFire a Corsair 400CX will do the job fine. Or select one of the good PSUs listed here:
http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.aspx?i...

========
@OP: Where are you buying from?


What is DES Software?

I am buying from Ankara, Turkey @ www.gigatek.com.tr
January 1, 2009 11:01:07 PM

I recommend cutting back to an E8400 or maybe even an E8200. If you are going to OC, then the E8200 could be a good choice. I've got mine OC'd to 3.6Ghz. I'd then cut back the RAM to DDR2-800 and get a cheaper HD if you don't need 500 GB of storage. Then take the money you saved on CPU, RAM, HD and buy a better video card. Buy the best one you can afford like a 4850, 4870 or GTX 260. That's what I would do on a limited budget to get the best gaming PC.
a b å Intel
January 2, 2009 1:43:54 AM

Gigabyte DS3l is very good.
You can't tell the difference in performance with ddr2-800 vs faster.

For psu's, here is one list of psu's tiered by quality:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10...

460w coolermaster may not be the best, but if you already own it, go ahead and use it.
It should be able to power a 4830 or 4850 vga card.

If you must go for a budget psu, look for fortron(FSP).

Gaming performance is mainly in the vga card. so see if you cant justify a 4850.

January 2, 2009 5:47:43 AM

calinkula said:
I recommend cutting back to an E8400 or maybe even an E8200. If you are going to OC, then the E8200 could be a good choice. I've got mine OC'd to 3.6Ghz. I'd then cut back the RAM to DDR2-800 and get a cheaper HD if you don't need 500 GB of storage. Then take the money you saved on CPU, RAM, HD and buy a better video card. Buy the best one you can afford like a 4850, 4870 or GTX 260. That's what I would do on a limited budget to get the best gaming PC.


Well, I am not thinking OC'ing and also I do not know how to do it. Already, I guess, you would recommend not to do so until I replaced the PSU. Here we have only 4$ difference between 500 gb and 320 gb HDD, so I cant save much on that. Backing of saves me for $10. So from 8500 to 8200 I would be saved 30 USD. This may give me a change of going for 4850 but definitely not for 4870. So:

1. case: stand for 4830:
-No extra PSU Requirement
-May buy 8400
-May buy 500 GB
-Low risk over GPU with the PSU.

2. case: Get 4850
-Buy 8200
-Buy 320 gb to save money
-Mid-level risk over GPU with the current PSU.
-To overclock, get a quality PSU.

3. case: 4870:
- No way :)  I cant afford it...

4. case:
What do you think about nVidia's????
January 2, 2009 9:27:22 AM

Personally i think nVidia is a much better choice but for someone on a tight budget i would say stay with the 4850, if you are not planning to OC then a E8200 or E8400 are very good choices.

I would say go for option 2, but dont bother saving $4 on your HHD you will be much happier with 180 extra gigs of space later on.
January 2, 2009 9:59:30 AM

mehcrim said:
Personally i think nVidia is a much better choice but for someone on a tight budget i would say stay with the 4850, if you are not planning to OC then a E8200 or E8400 are very good choices.

I would say go for option 2, but dont bother saving $4 on your HHD you will be much happier with 180 extra gigs of space later on.


I can have MSI - N9600GT-T2D512-OC less costing than 4850.. What can you recommend?
January 2, 2009 10:29:32 AM

also here i can have Biostar 8800GT 512 MB 256Bit DDR3 Dual DVI 16X for equal price with 4830.
a b å Intel
January 2, 2009 2:37:13 PM

4830, 9600gt, 8800gt-512, 8800gts-512 are comparable cards.

4850, 8800GTX, 8800ultra, 9800GTX, 9800GTX+ are comparable cards.

The 8800gtx or ultra are older, and may require more power.

If you will not overclock, stick with the E8400.

Do you have a case, OS, and the other parts already?

January 2, 2009 7:14:08 PM

tgulez said:
What is DES Software?


DES software is a Energy Saving software. The software reduces your voltages when not at full load. This is a bad thing as the SpeedStep automatically deals with it. Having the software installed can cause BSODs,etc.
January 2, 2009 7:14:41 PM

I have the case already. Not the other parts and I will be using Windows XP SP3.
January 2, 2009 7:24:28 PM

geofelt said:
4830, 9600gt, 8800gt-512, 8800gts-512 are comparable cards.

4850, 8800GTX, 8800ultra, 9800GTX, 9800GTX+ are comparable cards.

The 8800gtx or ultra are older, and may require more power.

If you will not overclock, stick with the E8400.

Do you have a case, OS, and the other parts already?



I guess you mean buying 8800 for example is not much different than buying a 4850.. Some say ATI is better than nVidia recently so trend is ATI nowadays. This is confusing me only. I assume, if I buy 4830 instead of 4850, I cannot play some games that I could play with 4850. Am I right? Or I can play but the quality will be worse? Which one is correct?

a b å Intel
January 2, 2009 8:39:41 PM

You get pretty much what you pay for. There are Nvidia fans, and ATI fans, and depending on the game, resolution, settings, one may be favored over the other to a small degree. Unless you have a favorite game, don't worry about the differences. ATI was good for a while, unitl nvidia cut prices to compete.

There are many variations of 88oo cards, so look at the details carefully. In general, if buying new, I think it is better to stick with the newer offeringgs.


You can play any game with any card. You may not get the fastest frame rates, or be able to use the highest settings with a lesser card, but you can play. For games,I would get the best vga card I felt comfortable paying for, and build the rest of the system around it. Don't worry too much about the future, sli/crossfire and such because vga cards are improving every few months. By the time you want to upgrade, there will be something out that is faster and cheaper.
At that time, sell the old card and buy the new.
January 2, 2009 10:56:32 PM

geofelt said:
4830, 9600gt,8800gt-512, (G92)8800gts-512, 9800GT are comparable cards.

4850, 4870, 8800GTX, 8800ultra, 9800GTX, 9800GTX+ are comparable cards.

The 8800gtx and ultra are older, and may require more power.

If you will not overclock, stick with the E8400.

Fixed/added.

If you really want to play the newer games (ie Crysis) don't go below a 4670/9600GSO/8800GS. Imo, the 8600/9500 have pretty bad performance for the money.
January 3, 2009 4:21:57 AM

So my new configuration is:

INTEL-E8400 C2D 174.5 USD + TAX
GIGABYTE-GA-EP45-DS3L 109.5 USD + TAX
OCZ-2 GB DDR2 800 VALUE 74 USD + TAX
MSI-N9600GT-T2D512-OC 105 USD + TAX
SEAGATE-500 GB SATA2 32 MB NCQ 57.85 USD + TAX
LG-H55N-S 28 USD + TAX
C. MASTER CASE + C. MASTER PSU 460w 129USD+ TAX
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL 677.85 USD + TAX
TOTAL (TAX INCLUDED) 799,22 USD


I have reached my upper bound which was 800 USD totally here.. I guess, it became a good build. what do you think?
!