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Checking for broken parts: CPU Temp (..Too high?) and Prime95

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April 9, 2009 5:01:30 AM

Hello,

So I finally got one of the broken PC's in my home replaced (the 6 year old one) , and built a new system. (Thanks to those who helped me pick the parts; my original post seems to have disappeared..) Right now I'm trying to make sure the parts are working fine to find out if I have to RMA Newegg.

CPU: E5200 Intel
Heatsink: MASSCOOL 8WA741
MOBO: EP43-UD3L Gigabyte
RAM: 2x G.Skill 2gb DDR2 1066
GPU: 4830 Sapphire Radeon
Case: Antec 300 with 1 added 120mm fan in front (Blow air in)
HDD: WD6400AAKS 650GB
PSU: Earthwatts 430w
OS: Windows Vista 64-bit SP1
DVD ROM: LG DVD Burner Black SATA Model
Thermal Grease: MX-2

All stock settings, no overclock.

Average CPU temp with RealTemp is around 39-40 idle, which seems to be a little high since I read some users have gotten low 30 and high 20s with the same heatsink. First I applied it by making a small clump of the grease in the middle of CPU then placed heatsink. After checking the temp and thinking I might have improperly used the MX-2 , I cleaned and reapplied it by evenly distributing a thin layer of the grease first then placed heatsink, same temp readings.

So what else could be causing this?

And another thing, I tried running Prime95 via Realtemp to check what my temp would be at high loads, but it hangs up after a few minutes. No BSOD, just hang up (Mouse won't move and such). My first thought was dead RAM, so I used Vista Memory Diagnostics on both ram sticks individually: neither had any errors on the default tests. I'm pretty sure I downloaded the 64-bit version of Prime95.

Any ideas on this one too?

I'd appreciate any input, google isn't giving me enough information. :( 
a c 126 à CPUs
April 9, 2009 6:24:38 AM

One question. Does that heatsink use the push pins or have a back plate? Also I would check to make sure the heat sink is not round. If it is then it will cause your temp to be higher than they should since the surface contact will be less than intended.

As for the Prime95 hanging your PC that means your system is not stable. I would check the memory timings and voltages in the BIOS and make sure they are set properly. That is sometimes the cause since the BIOS likes to put wrong voltages/timings.

Oh and BTW, I just thought of this, what is the voltage on your CPU at? It could be set higher by the BIOS than is needed and see if you can lower that down. If the BIOS sets the voltage higher than needed then the temps tend to go up. But if you can lower it then the temps should go down.
April 9, 2009 6:46:21 AM

jimmysmitty said:
One question. Does that heatsink use the push pins or have a back plate? Also I would check to make sure the heat sink is not round. If it is then it will cause your temp to be higher than they should since the surface contact will be less than intended.

As for the Prime95 hanging your PC that means your system is not stable. I would check the memory timings and voltages in the BIOS and make sure they are set properly. That is sometimes the cause since the BIOS likes to put wrong voltages/timings.

Oh and BTW, I just thought of this, what is the voltage on your CPU at? It could be set higher by the BIOS than is needed and see if you can lower that down. If the BIOS sets the voltage higher than needed then the temps tend to go up. But if you can lower it then the temps should go down.


The heatsink has a back plate with spring-loaded screws, they're screwed tight. Not sure what you mean by "round." Any chance the high cpu temp might be because I only have one intake fan and it's not hitting the CPU? (It's for the hard drive).

As for the voltages.. I never thought about them before. Well, I didn't touch any of that in the BIOS menu. Is there a possibility that the voltage settings are off even with them at default? (Aren't they at auto?) I'll look at the CPU voltages when I get the chance to use that PC again.

Thanks
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a c 126 à CPUs
April 9, 2009 6:56:07 AM

By round I mean the contact part of the heatsink. The one that touches the CPU and thermal paste. It could be a bit round instead of near flat (flat is impossibly to do but still is feasable to a microscopic point).

And yes the voltages can be set wrong even by default.

My system is a good example. I got it together and instaklled everything and was set. Tried to play any game and it would crash after a while, sometimes sooner than later.

I checked my BIOS and my memories voltage was set too low at 1.8v while the spec was 2.1v. Then when I OCed it I was able to lower the timings increaseing performance a bit too.

There is always a chance that it could have set something wrong on auto.

And it could be because of only having one intake fan. Normally its better to have 2 or 3 at minimum pulling air in the front and out the back.
a c 172 à CPUs
April 9, 2009 7:29:26 AM

Idle temps are not hte problem. What are you CPU temps under load?

CoreTemp will tell you what your VID is. VID is basically the voltage that your particular CPU is programmed to run at. Lower is better. If you are running at stock frequency, you may be able to lower the voltage and still run with stability.

And last, a link to how to apply thermal compound:
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_conten...
April 9, 2009 7:43:24 AM

jimmysmitty said:
By round I mean the contact part of the heatsink. The one that touches the CPU and thermal paste. It could be a bit round instead of near flat (flat is impossibly to do but still is feasable to a microscopic point).

And yes the voltages can be set wrong even by default.

My system is a good example. I got it together and instaklled everything and was set. Tried to play any game and it would crash after a while, sometimes sooner than later.

I checked my BIOS and my memories voltage was set too low at 1.8v while the spec was 2.1v. Then when I OCed it I was able to lower the timings increaseing performance a bit too.

There is always a chance that it could have set something wrong on auto.

And it could be because of only having one intake fan. Normally its better to have 2 or 3 at minimum pulling air in the front and out the back.


Well, here's a picture of the HS:
http://www.masscool.com/product_detail.php?tab=3&pid=14...
Some differences: The back plate is plastic on mine and there is no preapplied thermal compound (But they give you a pack separated).

When I first took out the HS, the paste was already pretty close to it, so I don't think I could have made it any tighter...

As for the voltages, here are some interesting findings:

Before BIOS update:
CPU Clock Ratio: [8X]
Fine CPU Clock Ratio: [+0.5]
CPU Freq. 1.70GHz (200x8.5)

After BIOS update:
CPU Clock Ratio: [12x]
Fine CPU Clock Ratio: [+0.5]
CPU Freq. 2.60GHz

Voltages no change:
CPU Vcore 1.2250v [Auto]
CPU Termination 1.200v [Auto]
CPU Reference 0.805v [Auto]

As for the RAM...
DRAM Voltage: 1.800V [Auto]

Which is different from the voltage number listed on the RAM stick (2.0v-2.1v).
The timings were also different, for the card it's 5-5-5-15. (Is that CAS Latency, tRLD, tRP, tRAS in order??)

Performance Enhance was set to Turbo on default (Other options: Good, Xtreme).

I tried matching the timing with 2.1v setting under the new BIOS, but it still hanged up in Prime95 (Again, not BSOD). Should I try 2.0v and maybe set Performance Enhance to Good?

The CPU temp didn't change... I guess I should attribute that to not having enough fan intakes? Here's my airflow (Image was from google):

http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=300rnr.jpg

Pink arrow show airflow. HS has a fan inside also blowing the same direction as the back fan as indicated.
April 9, 2009 7:48:17 AM

jsc said:
Idle temps are not hte problem. What are you CPU temps under load?

CoreTemp will tell you what your VID is. VID is basically the voltage that your particular CPU is programmed to run at. Lower is better. If you are running at stock frequency, you may be able to lower the voltage and still run with stability.

And last, a link to how to apply thermal compound:
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_conten...


Hi,

The heatsink copper plate on mine unfortunately isn't marked for where it would come in contact with the CPU, so I opted to put the thermal on the CPU first on both accounts...

As for the high CPU load, I'm not sure because Prime95 keeps hanging up on me.

As for the VID

Coretemp 0.99.4 says my VID: 1.1500v
Under BIOS it said
CPU Vcore 1.22500v [Auto]
CPU Termination 1.200v [Auto]
CPU Reference 0.805v [Auto]

What does this mean? :heink: 

Thanks for the help
April 9, 2009 8:37:59 AM

You could also check the power saving options in the bios. By default they are normally on meaning that the cpu fan will not run at full speed until the temps go up to a predefined point.
a c 126 à CPUs
April 9, 2009 10:17:52 AM

Well the VID is the voltage that Intel tested the CPU at and was able to run it at its stock settings stable. I would also try lowering the memory voltage to 2.0v and set the Performance Enhance to just good.

Try setting the CPU voltage to that 1.15v as it should be sufficient for stability.

As for the hang ups, if it doesn't fix after this and you have done everything it may just be the program and 64bit.
April 9, 2009 2:28:38 PM

jimmysmitty said:
Well the VID is the voltage that Intel tested the CPU at and was able to run it at its stock settings stable. I would also try lowering the memory voltage to 2.0v and set the Performance Enhance to just good.

Try setting the CPU voltage to that 1.15v as it should be sufficient for stability.

As for the hang ups, if it doesn't fix after this and you have done everything it may just be the program and 64bit.


I tried 1.1500v but it still hangs up at Prime95 (Test #8 through RealTemp). Although after the hangup, the setting went back to the default (Auto), so I might have accidentally exited without saving under BIOS. I can try again later when I have access to the said computer.

As for the program... That is strange, I have read some people with Vista Ultimate 64-bit doing fine with it. :( 

As for the power saving options, I couldn't find one under BIOS... Maybe it was under a different term, I'll go look through the manual. Speaking of CPU fan speed, what can monitor RPM for CPU fan speed? I tried checking for airflow on the heatsink, but couldn't feel anything, I'm wondering if the fan inside it is busted to begin with.

Thanks.
April 9, 2009 10:49:27 PM

Just got some more tests done:
I built another computer with very similar specs (Same parts and brands, but different PSU, OS: XP 32bit, and case, it was to replace another broken PC), and it successfully ran the Prime95 test from RealTemp.

With that in mind, I took it's ram (Which is again the same as the vista machine's ram that kept failing Prime95) and switched them. The vista machine hanged up again at test #7 or #8. RAM is probably ok.

I also ran Orthos, and it seems to run fine without hanging up on the vista machine. Orthos is very similar to Prime95 right?

Here are the results a few minutes ago:
Direct link: http://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clipboard01tll.png
Thumbnail:

It's still going as I'm typing this... So I guess it is not a CPU problem? Orthos is only 32bit though, but that should only concern RAM right, which doesn't seem to be the problem. I can't think of anything else besides the Prime95 64bit build just not wanting to play nice with Vista 64bit home premium. As for the temperature... I guess I just got the E5200 from a bad batch? The XP machine that has the same processor outputs similar temp (Higher by about 2-3'C) with the stock cooler. It was purchased at the same time and day.
a c 309 à CPUs
April 10, 2009 4:15:33 AM

First, run memtest86+ for a few passes to be certain that the ram is ok. It should run without a single error.
Your ram is spec at over(2.0+v) the standard 1.8v. Set the ram voltage to the spec on the sticks if the default does not run properly.

Prime95-64 bit runs just fine with vista home premium. There are some more updated versions, so be certain to download and use the most current.
Use the rounding checking option to detect errors.

!