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Installed Radeon HD 4650 - Boot Loops except in Safe Mode

Tags:
  • Video
  • Drivers
  • Radeon
  • Windows XP
  • Product
Last response: in Windows XP
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June 21, 2011 1:00:04 AM

Hello,

I'm running Windows XP SP2 and have installed the Sapphire Radeon HA 4650. No issues before installation.

The installation used the most updated drivers from the ATI/AMD website, as the CD drivers did not work. After the Catalyst Control Center (CCC) completed installation, the computer rebooted and entered in a reboot loop when booted into Normal mode. I am able to boot into Safe Mode (with Networking) but I have not been able to adjust the drivers or uninstall CCC.

I updated Avast before the reboot, and the scan hasn't shown any viruses. Any suggestions?

More about : installed radeon 4650 boot loops safe mode

a b \ Driver
June 21, 2011 2:25:47 AM



Since you tried to install the drivers from the CD, they may have been present when you installed the newer drivers from the AMD site.

When uninstalling ATI drivers using "Add/Remove Programs", you may have an entry for "ATI - Software Uninstall Utility". The uninstall utility removes the ATI control panel or ATI catalyst control center, the ATI display driver, any ATI demos, and the uninstall utility itself. This utility is the easiest way to uninstall the ATI software. Just select the uninstall utility, click the button, follow the prompts, and then reboot.

If ATI-Software Uninstall Utility is not listed in Add/Remove Programs, first remove ATI Catalyst Control Center then remove the ATI Display Drivers
Click 'No' when prompted to restart the system
Empty the Windows Temp folder by going to C׃\Windows\Temp\

Restart the system

Install the newer drivers after the older one's are known to be gone.
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June 21, 2011 3:51:53 AM

Unfortunately, I cannot uninstall anything in safe mode (message saying the Windows Unintstallers is not present or corrupt).

Any other ways of removing it? Should I try to start at the "last known configuration"?
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a b \ Driver
June 21, 2011 4:50:31 AM

OK, you can't do it in safe mode... This just calls for a bit of imagination.

Since you can start in safe mode, add a switch to the boot.ini to block your graphics card drivers from loading at startup.

Start up in plain old safe mode, no networking or CMD prompt.

Go to:

Start>Control Panel>System>Advanced>Startup and Recovery>Settings>
System Startup>Edit

There will be just a few lines, one looks a bit like this:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Windows XP Professional"/noexecute=optin /fastdetect

You will add this to the end of the line:

/basevideo

and then 'save'

Restart computer normally and use add/remove to get rid of the video drivers.


The /basevideo switch forces the system into standard 640x480 16-color VGA mode by using a video driver that is compatible with any video adapter.

When the bad drivers are removed you can go back here and delete the /basevideo switch and install good drivers.

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a b \ Driver
June 21, 2011 5:00:46 AM

gsforfree said:
Hello,


I updated Avast before the reboot, and the scan hasn't shown any viruses. Any suggestions?


Just one... Disable, turn off, or completely uninstall this thing before trying to install any drivers of any kind.



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June 21, 2011 2:42:58 PM

tigsounds said:
OK, you can't do it in safe mode... This just calls for a bit of imagination.

Since you can start in safe mode, add a switch to the boot.ini to block your graphics card drivers from loading at startup.

Start up in plain old safe mode, no networking or CMD prompt.

Go to:

Start>Control Panel>System>Advanced>Startup and Recovery>Settings>
System Startup>Edit

There will be just a few lines, one looks a bit like this:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Windows XP Professional"/noexecute=optin /fastdetect

You will add this to the end of the line:

/basevideo

and then 'save'

Restart computer normally and use add/remove to get rid of the video drivers.


The /basevideo switch forces the system into standard 640x480 16-color VGA mode by using a video driver that is compatible with any video adapter.

When the bad drivers are removed you can go back here and delete the /basevideo switch and install good drivers.



Updated the boot.ini as instructed, but still could not load Windows in normal mode. The "loading windows screen" shows with the status bar, then there is a quick blue screen flash, and the computer restarts.
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a b \ Driver
June 21, 2011 5:36:37 PM

gsforfree said:
Updated the boot.ini as instructed, but still could not load Windows in normal mode. The "loading windows screen" shows with the status bar, then there is a quick blue screen flash, and the computer restarts.



Go back to the same place I sent you above and look down the box for "Automatically restart" and un-check it.
While you are there, go back to the Boot.ini you changed by addding /basevideo and add yet one more thing... add /SOS and this will show all drivers being loaded when you start the computer. If it crashes you can see what driver did it and the computer will not restart but stall on the BSOD and show the offending object that caused it.

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June 21, 2011 6:52:31 PM

I turned off automatic restart and added the /SOS trigger.

The box is still restarting, but I'm able to see the blues screen, which is not, in fact, a BSOD. The screen looks like the one that shows up when windows checks the disk with the text:


"Microsoft Windows Version 5.1 (build 2600: Service Pack 2)
2 System Processors [1152 MB memory] Multiprocessor Kernel"


Then it goes to a black screen with white writing (similar to command prompt) saying:

"Checking file system on G:
The volume is clean
Checking file system on C:
The volume is clean
Windows has finished checking the disk."

Then the computer restarts. I am still able to enter safe mode.
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a b \ Driver
June 21, 2011 11:13:58 PM


We keep getting closer with every step.

Start in safe mode. Click; Start>Run>CMD and Ok.

In the command box, enter this CHKNTFS /X C:

Disk checking is now turned off at startup. Maybe the true error will show its ugly face.
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June 22, 2011 12:18:37 PM

Well, I ran chkntfx /x C: G: and the same steps happened.

I had the blue screen referenced above and then the prompt that just said "windows has finished checking the disk"
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a b \ Driver
June 22, 2011 5:52:02 PM



Something strange going on here. I'm wondering if your disk is really being checked or is this a message from something sinister running at startup.

The machine started up properly on your old card. What was the old card?
The new card is PCIe. Is the BIOS set to use the PCIe card as the primary adapter?
Has power been set to the PCIe slot in the BIOS? Set to max 125W if not.
I assume you plugged in the separate power cord to the card. Check.
Next safe mode startup, move autochk.exe to another folder so it can't be started. (Windows/system32/autochk.exe). You'll get a message autochk.exe could not be found, skipping disk checking.

All else fails, put old card back in and see if machine can boot properly with it.


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June 22, 2011 8:28:33 PM

I should have clarified earlier, it's in an AGP slot w/ power plugged into the PSU.

Finally got the BSOD!

DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

With some technical information (see image attached) and the files ati2mtag.sys.

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a b \ Driver
June 23, 2011 5:48:36 AM

This becoming one tough nut to crack. Let's get this thing away from ATI.

Start by restoring your boot.ini back to normal (delete the /basevideo entry or we'll never get anywhere). The /SOS can stay if you like, it is harmless and can lead to a bum driver being shown.

Make a new restore point first.

Stop the hardware auto-discovery service: The card won't be discovered by Windows;
Start>Run>services.msc
Double-click "Shell Hardware Detection" and change Startup type to Disabled, then Apply, then Ok.

Delete it's inf file. Can't put old drivers back without inf file as a guide.
C׃/Windows/inf
Double-click each inf file starting with the letters 'OEM' until you find the ATI Radeon driver. Should be in the first 10. Look at OEM6.inf first.. you may get lucky.
When you find it, delete it, and the 'PNF" file that goes with it.
The inf file will look something like this at the top...
;-----------------------------------------------
;----------0810011644-8.541-080923a-069992C-ATI
;-----------------------------------------------
; ATI Display Information file : ATIIXPAG.INF
; Installation INF for the ATI display driver.
; Copyright(C) 1998-2004 ATI Technologies Inc.
; Windows XP
; Base INF Last Updated 2005/11/01


There are a few inf files that start with "ati" but they are the Windows generic divers and aren't know to be an issue, so they live, unless they cause trouble.

Delete it's reinstall map; Old drivers can't be auto-reinstalled if this info is missing.
Windows/system32/ReinstallBackups/0000 and ? Under each folder there is another folder named Driver Files. There may be 20 of these numbered folders, starting with 0000. Click the Driver Files under each one as ATI usually uses 2 of these numbered folders... exactly which ones needs to be discovered by hand. You'll see many ATI files for the two that ATI is using. Usually they lay claim to the first one (0000) but look and verify before deleting 0000. If you can't see this folder, ignore and continue...

Kill the ati2mtag service at the registry level. Service causing BSOD Stop error must die.
Start>Run>Regedit Navigate to:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Services\ati2mtag
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet003\Services\ati2mtag
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\ati2mtag
Delete entire key in left pane for each of these.

Open Windows Explorer, Navigate to Windows/System32/ati2mtag.sys and delete it (if possible).

Deny the computer even had that card installed;
Start>Control Panel>System>Hardware>Device Manger>Display adapters>ATI Radeon HA 4650>Uninstall

Do full restart. Go to BIOS and look at what video card is showing as primary. Yours will be AGP. Also look at the "Aperture Size" setting and lower it down to about 16MB, keeping you out of main memory as much as possible.

Save and exit. Windows should start normally at 640x480 @16 colors in normal startup. It will not find your card, it doesn't know how anymore. Be absolutely positive you have the correct driver for that card. I don't think the AGP version driver is different from the PCIe version, but a look at the the AMD site will not be wasted time. Install new driver. When instructed to Restart, go back to services and put "Shell Hardware Detection" back to "Auto" at startup before re-starting computer so it is working to discover your card and finish loading the new drivers when it starts up.

Come back and report the progress.



/Haunting thoughts... The ATI driver installer might say you don't have ATI hardware. If this happens, all is not lost. Go back to services and set "Shell Hardware Detection" back to Startup type: Auto again and restart machine.
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June 23, 2011 3:05:01 PM

It didn't take and now there's a now BSOD with no mention of a sys file:

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a b \ Driver
June 23, 2011 3:31:05 PM



How far did you get when this showed up? Were you able to start normally with low color and resolution after doing the above things I said? Did this happen after installing the new driver?

A Stop 0xa error is a bad driver or hardware, such as memory.
If you couldn't start normally before installing the driver, I'm leaning on a bad bad card as the source of the problem.

I would say to try that card in another computer but machines with an AGP slot are getting rare so now one must wonder about that card with a bit of frustration because it can't be popped into another computer. Can you put the old card back for a test?


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June 23, 2011 3:41:39 PM

So I removed the old drivers successfully and then reinstalled the catalyst control center with all the drivers (unfortunately, ATI does not allow for just driver downloads.

I'll try the old card, but the picture was freezing and going black on that one, which prompted the purchase of the new vid card.
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June 24, 2011 12:06:11 AM

I tried the old card, at the computer booted normally. Does that mean the card I received is bad?
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a b \ Driver
June 24, 2011 3:01:55 AM

gsforfree said:
I tried the old card, at the computer booted normally. Does that mean the card I received is bad?



The finger is pointing that way. After all that has been done, it should work. The final straw would be to install just the drivers and not CCC. I have a Radeon card myself and I seem to remember that there was an option to only install the driver and nothing else in a "Custom" install. I don't have a high-powered card like yours, but still I take the same drivers as you and mine works. (I have a 3800 HD series card, PCIe)

A stop 0XA error is often a bad memory error, or bum driver. I think your driver is the least of all to suspect.

A replacement card may be in order, especially since it never worked.... even once.

We have other very experienced people here and none of them chimed in to suggest anything else you could try. I think we were being watched and were seen to have exhausted our options on our own.

I thought about bad system memory interfering, but the old card uses the same memory and it works, so that idea is dead. Since these things come with a warranty, a return/exchange/refund is in order.

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June 24, 2011 11:47:33 AM

I'm concluding it was a bad card. It did not work with just the driver installed as well.

Interestingly, my old card is a Radeon 9200, which works just fine. Before putting that one in, I took out the memory, vacuumed out any potential dust, and put the memory back in.

Could it be that the 250W PSU is not strong enough to power the card?
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a b \ Driver
June 24, 2011 5:31:00 PM

gsforfree said:
I'm concluding it was a bad card. It did not work with just the driver installed as well.

Interestingly, my old card is a Radeon 9200, which works just fine. Before putting that one in, I took out the memory, vacuumed out any potential dust, and put the memory back in.

Could it be that the 250W PSU is not strong enough to power the card?


The plot thickens !

I see in an earlier response I said to set the PCIe slot power to 125 Watts which turned out to be moot because you have and AGP card, but it was a un-noticed bread-crumb trail to a potential source of trouble. (I went with 125W to make sure the power setting was absolutely not going to a problem if you had PCIe). The AMD website has a list of certified power supplies for use with their cards. I looked down the list and see the lowest-rated one is around 500W.
(HERE).

We all go blind sometimes working on these things and overlook the one thing that is needed to make it all work- Power. A 250 watt power supply will be challenged to energize everything without adding a high-performance GPU. I now think the card was working (or trying to work) properly but the power supply could not maintain. There was a voltage dip of significant proportions when the driver kicked the card into action and slam-dunked the system causing the crash. Your card is supposed to consume about 30 watts which is not a terribly high amount, but your power supply is doing all it can without this added burden. We must remember the rating of a power supply includes power delivered at all available voltages. Some are 'beefy' at +5 but lacking at +/- 12 volts. One voltage can dive and not come close to the total rated output of a PSU.

A new power supply is in order here. A new 450W will likely satisfy your needs without costing a bundle.





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June 24, 2011 8:29:31 PM

Given that it's a dell poweredge 400SC - I think i'll probably go with this one. That *should* do the trick.
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a b \ Driver
June 25, 2011 4:59:58 AM

gsforfree said:
Given that it's a dell poweredge 400SC - I think i'll probably go with this one. That *should* do the trick.



Just as long as it has the "UL" listed/approved certification. That's a nice inexpensive PSU. It is going to make your computer a lot happier. There are monster PSU's out there for a lot of money but that one is probably about right for the demands of your system. Make sure you come back after it is installed and let me know how it works.... card included.




To be continued....
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July 17, 2011 7:15:01 PM

Installed new power supply, \no issues with PSU installation, but vid card is still giving me blue screen with the ati2mtag.sys driver error.

So, do I get an RMA and return the card?

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July 17, 2011 7:57:30 PM

One last update - I located the 10.12 version drivers (vs. 11.1 that we used before) and it loads without an issue!

No BSOD at all! Thanks for all the help going through this. I learned more about drivers than I ever did before.
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