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Another Agp upgrade

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February 13, 2009 7:44:29 PM

hey guys i have a Pentium 4 3.2 processor with 1gb of ddr ram and an acient geforce fx 5200 that i want to upgrade. from what i understand the hd 3850 is the most powerful agp card out there.

my question is would the 3850 be a waste of money in which case i should go with a 3650 or 2600xt? i want to get the most gaming capabilities as i can.

More about : agp upgrade

a c 130 U Graphics card
February 13, 2009 7:50:57 PM

I have heard that the HD4670 is to be released on AGP but have yet to findout exactly when. Rumours say first quater so that would be march at the latest.
However i have not seen anything concrete yet.
You need to decide if the 3850 is value for money or not, personally i would get one, any performance in terms of FPS that you loose due to the CPU can be used to increase the picture quality, AA/AF etc.

Mactronix
February 13, 2009 7:58:14 PM

1909028,2,112849 said:
I have heard that the HD4670 is to be released on AGP but have yet to findout exactly when. Rumours say first quater so that would be march at the latest.
However i have not seen anything concrete yet.
You need to decide if the 3850 is value for money or not, personally i would get one, any performance in terms of FPS that you loose due to the CPU can be used to increase the picture quality, AA/AF etc.

Mactronix[/quotemsg
so your saying that games may lag a bit but that the picture would still be much better.
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February 13, 2009 7:59:02 PM

1909028,2,112849 said:
I have heard that the HD4670 is to be released on AGP but have yet to findout exactly when. Rumours say first quater so that would be march at the latest.
However i have not seen anything concrete yet.
You need to decide if the 3850 is value for money or not, personally i would get one, any performance in terms of FPS that you loose due to the CPU can be used to increase the picture quality, AA/AF etc.

Mactronix[/quotemsg
so your saying that games may lag a bit but that the picture would still be much better.
February 13, 2009 7:59:54 PM

double poster sorry
a c 130 U Graphics card
February 13, 2009 8:10:35 PM

Also it would be a good idea to get another Gig of ram, it will help with more modern games.
Mactronix
February 13, 2009 9:10:33 PM

It's time to upgrade the platform, so you'll actually get the improvements you want out of your new GPU purchase. Memory is dirt cheap for DDR2, so it's a good time to do it. :D 

I tried to upgrade to a X1950 pro from a Radeon 9800 about 3 years ago, while keeping my old platform. The old platform's cpu, motherboard, and power supply just couldn't take advantage of the new horsepower. It was a total disappointment. Paying a few hundred bucks for a bottleneck really sucks. :pfff: 
a c 142 U Graphics card
February 13, 2009 9:41:11 PM

I was in the same boat as rosanjin. Bought a Geforce 7800GS AGP for my aging system a while back. Completely disappointed in it's performance on my old system. Newegg has the HD3850 AGP for $120 right now. For $60 more, you could put together a new core system using PCI-E (motherboard, dual-core AMD cpu, 2x1GB or DDR2-800 RAM and an HD4650 graphics card).

To be honest, that would be a better use of your cash, but if you don't have that extra $60, you don't have it. I'd lean more towards the HD3650 if not lower.

-Wolf sends
February 14, 2009 2:47:29 AM

Needed :

G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 : 34.99$
+
GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3HP AM2+/AM2 : 85.99
+
AMD Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma 2.7GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache 2MB L3 Cache : 66.99
or
AMD Phenom 9850 BLACK EDITION 2.5GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 2MB L3 Cache : 144.99
+
SAPPHIRE 100265L Radeon HD 4830 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 : 99.99
or
SAPPHIRE 100245L Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 : 144.99

Low : 287.96$
Best : 410,96$

If you need :

OCZ GameXStream OCZ600GXSSLI 600W : 89.99$ for 59.99$ after Mir

Antec Three Hundred Black Steel : 59.95$

Western Digital Caviar Black WD5001AALS 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache : 74.99$

If you need all three, add : 194.93

You can have a COMPLETE new system for between 500-700$.
This old P4 need to take it rest ! The ram is slow and the entire platform is. For the best BANG .. go for something new. The 4830 is already an overkill for the P4. You can still buy a new card now, and a new system later. Youll see an improvement, but its not going to be what you expect.

And i still dont know wich res you play at ;) 

For 287.96 you can see a BIG BANG from your current system.
February 14, 2009 2:54:01 AM

I have to advise against upgrading and advise to just make a new build. $120 is simply way to much for a AGP card and it would simply be better to save up and make a low end build and OC it which would slaughter your current rig.

As for the 4670 going AGP I highly doubt it and if I am wrong it would still be a waste of money.
February 14, 2009 2:59:38 AM

Thats my point ... I can post an INTEL build if you want .. E5200 on P45 (OC like hell)
a c 130 U Graphics card
February 14, 2009 12:27:37 PM

NuclearShadow said:
I have to advise against upgrading and advise to just make a new build. $120 is simply way to much for a AGP card and it would simply be better to save up and make a low end build and OC it which would slaughter your current rig.

As for the 4670 going AGP I highly doubt it and if I am wrong it would still be a waste of money.


Taken from an interview with ATI,

Concerning AGP
I asked ATI if they were finished with the AGP interface, and the company immediately responded that no, they would continue to support AGP users. ATI has provided board manufacturers with the necessary information to build AGP cards, and expects to see 4670s in that flavor in the future. There are no plans to bring the 4800 series to market on the older interface, but the current high-end AGP cards top out with the Radeon 3850. The 4670 should outperform that card, and provide a reasonable upgrade path.

Another point from myself,
The main point to this card would be to give an option to those with pre-built machines with a limited PSU as they dont need extra power to run, its an easy fix to keep older machines competative. Dont forget that it turns the old P4 or athlon into a decent HTPC

Mactronix :) 
February 14, 2009 12:50:24 PM

your right. a P4 is OK to be an HTPC. But if he wants to play some new games ... He need a new system.
a c 130 U Graphics card
February 14, 2009 1:04:42 PM

boulard83 said:
your right. a P4 is OK to be an HTPC. But if he wants to play some new games ... He need a new system.


No get it right,
If you want to play the latest titles with all the whistles and bells on then an upgrade is needed granted.
However not everyone slams all the quality sliders to the right and then whinges when it doesn't run very well, most people do, but some dont.
When Crysis came out there were all these posts about framerates being crap and the hardware should be better etc. :cry: 
Me i ran crysis on a system that consisted of a Athlon 3000+ 1gb Ram and a X1650XT. Yes it could have looked better with different hardware but it still looked as good as Far Cry did when that came out.
So don't try and tell me you cant run modern games with a 3.2 P4 and a 3850 because i know from experience that you can, as long as you don't expect miracles.

Mactronix
February 14, 2009 2:09:43 PM

You can ... without any eye candy. you were running crysis at possibly the lowest settings. BTW crysis is a bad game .. its only a beautifful game if you have a 2000$ cpu ...

If he wants any kind of candy, he need an upgrade. and he REALLY need if he play @ 1440xxxxx or 1680xxxxx resolution. If he still play @1024x768 he can be fine with an AGP HD38xx. Using High res and candy is something he cant do with this system.
February 14, 2009 3:16:58 PM

Don't buy that crappy AGP card, its a complete waste, for $60 more you could have a complete build. let me show you.

For $180 exactly you can get this computer that will BLOW your computer away.

$45 MotherBoard: AM2/AM2+ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

$40 Processor: 4400+ x2 dual core http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

$50 VideoCard: 9400 GT http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

$22 RAM: 2GB ddr2 800mhz http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

HardDrive: use the one from your old computer

$25 Case: You could use your old one, or buy new one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

$23 PowerSupply: 550watt http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
February 14, 2009 3:37:16 PM

this is the cheapest build ive ever seen ... DONT BUY IT ...
February 14, 2009 3:55:55 PM

It's not junk, I am on the exact computer I just listed, no problems WHATSOEVER! plays crysis on medium/high with good 30 fps. its great for a budget build.
February 14, 2009 4:05:42 PM

I just cant agree .... Everything is cheap ...
February 14, 2009 4:08:26 PM

+ if you play Crysis on MEdium-High with a 9400GT ... its possibly @ 800x600 ...

BTW crysis is not a good game ... its just a beautyfull game ....

My low BUILD is just 100$ more, and its 10 times faster and WAY better ....
February 14, 2009 4:12:02 PM

Can you post your low build for me please? I just spent $300 on a computer from newegg and I would like to compare =D
February 14, 2009 4:12:47 PM

i posted IT look UP
February 14, 2009 4:16:38 PM

Your missing the case and the power supply, and its not THAT much better, Processor is 100 mhz faster, videocard is a good amount better... that's about it.
February 14, 2009 4:19:22 PM

loll NO i postes PSU-CASE-HDD if needed too

CPU also have the HYPERTRASNPORT near twice as fast ... GPU is 5 times better and CPU-MOBO is really a better futurproof being for the price.

I would not buy your post for my GF web computer .... imagine for gaming !
February 14, 2009 4:27:56 PM

Dude, I am playing crysis on this computer with 35 frames at medium settings with 4x AA, I never said this computer was a CRAZY GOOD GAMING COMPUTER, he was about to pay $120 on AGP card that would suck, if he was to just pay $60 more he could get this which is WAY BETTER then his PC setup.
February 14, 2009 4:36:52 PM

coozie7 said:
@TheKidd:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

A useful upgrade and cheap.
BTW some extra memory would help but I suspect it`s DDR rather than DDR2 so it may be expensive.


Don't buy that videocard, look at the reviews! only two 5 star, and 10 1 star! this videocard will probably overheat or you will have difficulty finding drivers according to the reviews.
February 14, 2009 4:44:37 PM

@whitefang

I agree, you build is a better choice then buying an AGP card ... but if he buy a new system its better to spend 300$ (350 if he need the PSU too) on something really better with quality parts.

@coozie

I agree ONLY if thekidd really CANT buy a ny computer.

My complete build is under 500$ for everythings he need. Its quite cheap for what he can have. And the MOBO support AM2+ so he can still upgrade later the CPU that is the weakest part on my "cheap" build.

If he keep his CASE-HDD its 350$ .... and if his PSU isnt too bad. its under 300$.

The only thing i have to say is ... why not ! ;) 
a c 184 U Graphics card
February 14, 2009 4:45:35 PM

OH H*** My mistake:(  Probably why its so cheap.
Still there`s always this;

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

HOW MUCH!

Bu really, I did think it was a nice card, shame I didn`t check the reviews. That said a 1650 would come in at much the same price and still be a upgrade from a fx5200.
February 14, 2009 4:52:37 PM

sry coozie but the debate about buying an AGP card is closed, DONT ! ;)  and really dont if its a 200$ agp card !
February 14, 2009 5:59:59 PM

well my budget is about 150$ max so i dont think building a new system is possible.
if the hd 3850 is a waste then ill just go with the 3650 or 2600xt..
the 2600xt comes ahead of the 3650 for gaming but all the reviews say its crap so i dont kno what to do...
a c 184 U Graphics card
February 14, 2009 6:13:59 PM

Listen to the reviews.
Get the 3650.
BTW BOULARD83; I linked the card because I could n`t believe the price! it`s mad!
February 14, 2009 6:15:33 PM

This one is one of the best AGP 3650, but reviews suck. if you end up getting one of these and it turns out to work fine, this one is a beast for agp. EDIT they deactivated the beastly AGP card so I don't have the link anymore EDIT

This one is one of the best AGP 3850, revies are good. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I wouldn't get a 2600xt they aren't as good as the 3650.
February 14, 2009 6:19:30 PM

Not bad, under 100$. well ... if you cant affort a new system. HD36xx is ok !
a c 130 U Graphics card
February 14, 2009 6:54:02 PM

@ TheKidd,
Look at the end of the day its up to you as i said earlier its up to you to decide if money wise the 3850 is worth it.
I have posted a review including benchmarks to support my belief that your system will be fine with a 3850.
Now before all the crap about getting a 3650 and a 3850 not being worth it without much but personal opinion backing it up. I was about to ask the next important question which is about your Power supply.
If your power supply isn't up to supporting a 3850 then its a moot point anyway and you would have to make do with a 3650. The 3650 will still be a massive upgrade to your old card just not as good as it could be is all.
Can you post what your PSU is please ? or specifically the +12V Amps or Wattage.

@ boulard83,
1 TheKidd said in the first post "i want to get the most gaming capabilities as i can" Thats the 3850 end off subject.
2 I believe the way it usually works is the OP decides when the subject currently being debated is closed not you :pfff: 
3 Why dont you post some supportive evidence to what you are saying ? Your last post is saying get a 3650. why not a 3850 ?
4 Now this sound like you are calling me a liar.
"You can ... without any eye candy. you were running crysis at possibly the lowest settings. BTW crysis is a bad game .. its only a beautifful game if you have a 2000$ cpu ... " If you are curious about the settings you only have to ask.
5 This just shows you really dont know what you are talking about.
"If he wants any kind of candy, he need an upgrade. and he REALLY need if he play @ 1440xxxxx or 1680xxxxx resolution. If he still play @1024x768 he can be fine with an AGP HD38xx. Using High res and candy is something he cant do with this system" :lol: 
The higher the resolution the more dependant on the GPU it is, the only issue possible with a 3850 in that system is CPU restriction which just gives more horsepower for AA/AF so actually higher res and more candy would help remove the bottleneck ;) 

Mactronix


February 14, 2009 7:17:17 PM

Thanks a lot guys uve been more than helpful

@Mactronix

i have a 300w PSU. but i found a 500w PSU on microcenter for only 16$ so i can live with that =)
anyways i think youve made up my mind. im going to go with the 3850. xD
February 14, 2009 8:25:08 PM

1 : IM not telling your a LIAR. i dont know where you see this.

2 : The Sapphire Radeon HD 3850 is 124.99$. quite expensive for the performance VS a HIS Radeon HD 3650 for 84.99$

those are from TigerDirect.com. AGP are cheaper there ... I think the FPS is going to be near the same...

I agree that with more GPU power you can use more AA-AF. but the CPU can still be a limit at some point.

Personnaly i would not spend over 100$ on an AGP card ....

The 300$ upgrade i posted can be a bit cheaper from serching MORE. ive done this in 5 min ... and this 300$ is a real BANG whit a 4830-mobo-ram-cpu.
February 14, 2009 8:35:35 PM

LOL i mean it when i say my max is 150$

believe me i would love to build a new computer.
thanks though
February 14, 2009 9:50:24 PM

No No no, don't buy anything for it, its fine just the way it is.

Can you buy off newegg? they are the best. that PSU is fine though from what I know, but then again im having a problem with my PSU so don't ask me! LOL
February 14, 2009 9:55:49 PM

LOL what does it mean when it says the memory clock is 828MHz x2 ? does it mean there are 2 memory clocks?
February 14, 2009 10:10:05 PM

It's probably talking about GDDR3 memory, when it says 800MHZ since it is GDDR3 it doubles the speed putting it at 1.6 ghz memory clock.

I think that's what it means anyway.
a c 130 U Graphics card
February 15, 2009 9:53:13 AM

Ok so i know its slightly over budget but this is what i would get if it was me.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Now i dont know how well the rebate thing works but you would be under budget after that.
As far as the 828MHz x2 is concerned its nothing to do with being GDDR3.
Its the DDR bit that is the key DDR= Double Data Rate so 828MHz x2
DDR2 is still Double Data Rate.

Mactronix :) 
February 15, 2009 1:03:51 PM

Mac is right, His parts are similar to those i posted, and plz dont buy the cheap PSU you listed Thekidd. Remember that the PSU is one of the MOST important part of your build.

@Mactronix
I just buyed this C-M psu for a cheap friend build and its doing it nicely ! plenty of power for the price.
February 15, 2009 1:51:26 PM

hey mac this PSU has PCIe connectors which i dont have.
does that matter? and what should i look for that would be compatible with my old mobo?
February 15, 2009 1:52:52 PM

the PCIe connector is for connecting to a videocard, the videocard you will be buying doesn't require one, so don't worry. look for 20+4 pin PSU because your old MoBo might require 20 pin and 20+4 pin will work for both 20 pin and 24 pin.
!