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OC'd 965 versus i5-750?

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July 19, 2010 1:49:50 PM

AMD Phenom II 965 (overclocked)
+ ARCTIC COOLING MX-3 Thermal paste
+ Thermaltake FRIO HSF

versus

Intel i5-750
+ stock cooler


Who's bringing home the bacon?


(I'm targeting an OC to 3.8 to 4.0Ghz with the AMD and a very moderate clock boost of 200MHz with the i-750)

More about : 965 versus 750

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a b K Overclocking
July 19, 2010 2:07:16 PM

Define "bacon".

Single card gaming? The OC'd 965 should do slightly better, but not a substantial amount.
Multi-card gaming? The i5 should do better clock for clock, the OC'd 965 may make some ground here: probably i5 leaning towards a tie.
Multi-core computing tasks? Clock for clock comparisons would put the i5 ahead of the 965, but again, the OC can make ground.

In the end, I would take the 965 with a frio over a stock cooled i5, but only because I like to OC, and the stock cooler would limit the fun that could be had.
July 19, 2010 2:21:29 PM

I thought so. I'm also leaning towards the FRIO option too because I'm sure it'll still be a cooling beast for my next build in 2011/12 (My old PC got fried and I'm just looking for a short-term but robust replacement)
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a b K Overclocking
July 19, 2010 2:40:12 PM

The Frio is a great cooler, the only reason I didn't bother with one was that the fanblades are light colors (have seen white and yellow so far) and with 2 smokers and 2 cats, the stains that would develop over time would be disgusting. I know I could just replace the fans, but that would start to be a really really expensive heatsink. I instead went with a 212+ and can't complain, but it is well documented that the Frio is near the top in air coolers.
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a c 100 K Overclocking
July 19, 2010 2:43:29 PM

But why not get even a cheap cooler like the Hyper 212+ for the i5? It's easy to hit 4ghz on the i5, and that will be much faster.
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
July 19, 2010 2:48:07 PM

wolfram23 said:
But why not get even a cheap cooler like the Hyper 212+ for the i5? It's easy to hit 4ghz on the i5, and that will be much faster.

+1
Best of both worlds.
July 19, 2010 2:57:27 PM

wolfram23 said:
But why not get even a cheap cooler like the Hyper 212+ for the i5? It's easy to hit 4ghz on the i5, and that will be much faster.


right on! Looking at my shopping cart, the costs are about the same.
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
July 20, 2010 9:03:43 AM

You could do that with a 955. The Hyper 212+ isn't even a bad cooler, for its cost its a great heatsink. Also, why not just save a little more money and go with the 955, I've seen many people hit the 4ghz mark with the 955 and Hyper 212+. Also, with the 965, I'm sure you could get it even higher than just 4ghz on a frio, maybe even 4.2 or even 4.3.
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July 20, 2010 10:02:26 AM

Because very few 955/965 can do 4GHz without water cooling and 955@4GHz is a joke compared to i5 750@4GHz.

Anandtech CPU benchmark 955@3.2GHz v.s. 750@2.66GHz

955 beats 750 in only 1 out of 31 benchmarks even with 600MHz higher frequency.
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
July 20, 2010 10:55:26 AM

O.o That's cool, it's just the fact that you hadn't even put in the fact that the 955 is actually 40$ cheaper than the 750, also, i never even said anything about comparing the same clock speeds. The i5 can only reach that high of frequencies because of tubo. Also if you look at this guide. You'll see, most i5's can't even reach 4.0 stable... http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/638380-i5-overclock... That guide shows that with standard cooling like the Hyper 212+, you wouldn't be able to get to 4ghz, 3.612 is more like it. Maybe even lower. Second as I said, you can't compare the two because there different price points...

This is more of a comparison, 1055T vs i5 750, there prices are exactly the same if not a few cents off. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/147?vs=109
I do admit the 750 does beat in graphics, but that's because many games currently don't utilize all the 4-6 cores, but there for quad cores in graphics would be more efficient than 6 but still, The 1055T in the future would be able to tie if not beat the 750 in most benchs, also it future proofs and not to mention the fact the 1055T can actually reach 4ghz much easier and stable than the 750.
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a b K Overclocking
July 20, 2010 11:43:37 AM

iqvl said:
Because very few 955/965 can do 4GHz without water cooling a

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absolutely not true, get your facts straight before posting garbage.

OP, the i5 is a superior CPU. however its also a more expensive build. what do you plan on doing with it?

if you are gaming, get the AMD system, and put the saved money toward the GPU. if you are doing encoding or other CPU intensive tasks, get the i5 and a cheap cooler like the 212+.
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
July 20, 2010 12:29:30 PM

Quote:
Rubbish from AMD fanboy again. Stop trolling about the imaginary OCing potential of phenom ii!
I guess that's why several of my customers complained about that they can't even reach 3.7~3.8GHz while others can do 4GHz.

AMD must paid TOM a lot for many mod positions so that they can ban everyone who believe the truth that AMD is a fail at the moment, letting AMD fanboys keep trolling!

AMD hex loses to Intel quad, FAIL!

Lets keep some civility. Childish comments like this do nothing to help your point, they just make you look like an immature douchebag. I am sure you don't consider yourself an immature douchebag, so why portray yourself as one?

PS: All the AMD fanboys think the same thing as you about Tom's and Intel. You both can't be right, now can you?
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July 20, 2010 1:44:42 PM

Quote:
Speaking of the facts is childish/garbage?! You amd fanboys have absolutely no common sense at all.

What amd fanboys can do but trolling and personal attacking while none-fanboys show you the truth?

Denying the truth makes you AMD fanboys not even close to childish, but foolish. Face the fact.

p.s. Who cares what AMD fanboys think?! Speak as if I would care about your fantasy.


You need to calm down and relax a litttle. If you don't have anything to add, keep quiet.
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a c 100 K Overclocking
July 20, 2010 2:19:55 PM

i5 hits 4ghz easy

I had mine at 175 base clock, with turbo on for 3.68ghz up to 4.2ghz.

I then disabled turbo and on the same voltages got an easy 200x19=3.8ghz. Bumped up to 20 multiplier, added a little voltage, and there you go, 4ghz.

IIRC it's at 1.35V Vcore and 1.25 VTT or so. Temps are low 70s like 72C or 73C in IntelBurn Test, idle is around 40C. Scored 18k (CPU score) in Vantage. Scored 16k with the turbo set up.
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July 20, 2010 2:22:56 PM

Quote:
It's those two have to calm down. They are the ones doing personal attack, not me. They have to keep quiet if they have nothing to add but trolling.

Are you also one of the mods hired by AMD too?! Don't you have anything to do but criticizing/banning everyone who argue with the always rude amd fanboys?


Check your PM.
July 20, 2010 2:25:53 PM

Break it down to how much you pay for how much performance.

'Bang to the buck' is pretty much the only way one can decide between different components. Fanboyism does not help.
July 20, 2010 2:55:32 PM

The i5 will bring home the bacon and the ham =), but in seriousness i5 will be a little faster (~5-10% without OC). you can get some nice i5 packages that don't cost an arm and a leg. Although the performance difference might not be big at all vs the 965 (AMD makes really good hardware). I think you should buy an x6 1055 instead of the i5, you get a lot of power for almost no money =). GL anyways, make sure to read some more reviews.
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a b K Overclocking
July 20, 2010 8:09:48 PM

Also I agree with freezed, the 1055T will futureproof your system, as time goes on many games and apps will start using the full potential of the hex-core and quad core. Also, I've seen many people hit the 4.0ghz mark with the 1055T.
a b à CPUs
a c 100 K Overclocking
July 20, 2010 9:19:09 PM

The thing about games using more cores is that it won't matter. Almost any new game is GPU limited. If you check CPU usage while gaming, it's going to be low, while GPUs are at 90-100% usage. I don't think there's much need to "futureproof" you CPU at this point.
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July 21, 2010 3:46:05 AM

aznshinobi said:
Also I agree with freezed, the 1055T will futureproof your system, as time goes on many games and apps will start using the full potential of the hex-core and quad core. Also, I've seen many people hit the 4.0ghz mark with the 1055T.

Check Anandtech bench, 1055T loses to 750 in more than 50% comparisons even with 200MHz higher frequency.

In addition, the difference between them is huge in game even at default clock. (8, 39, 13 and 29FPS less on 1055T in four games respectively.) LESS BANG FOR THE BUCK INSTEAD!

Who the hell would need a "future proof" hex that is worse than "outdated" quad?

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/147?vs=109
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
July 21, 2010 4:03:52 AM

iqvl said:
Check Anandtech bench, 1055T loses to 750 in more than 50% comparisons even with 200MHz higher frequency.

In addition, the difference between them is huge in game even at default clock. (8, 39, 13 and 29FPS less on 1055T in four games respectively.) LESS BANG FOR THE BUCK INSTEAD!

Who the hell would need a "future proof" hex that is worse than "outdated" quad?

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/147?vs=109


clock for clock the 750 will come out in front but that is easily resolved by raising the FSB a bit and pushing at least 3.5/3.6Ghz on 6 cores. It is "bang for buck" because LGA 1156 will be obsolete by the end of next year so while you are buying a CPU/MOBO and possibly a new set of ram, I am buying just the CPU :D  .. I can sacrifice a bit of performance for some $$, you can always overclock and close the gap between both CPU's

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20100209194503...

AM3 socket will be running for quite some time, not saying that LGA1156 is on the low end but the upgrade path sucks unless you have cash to burn ;)  . Not everyone is rich...


a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
July 21, 2010 4:07:44 AM

*Cough* People who don't game? If you compare the 965 vs 1055T, the 1055T loses in gaming too. It's just the fact that when you game the AMD Hexacores become tri-cores If i'm correct. Also, How is it less bang for the buck. The 1055T actually is the best bang for the buck. For a second, consider people who are just running synthetics, video editing, multithreading, and just a sprinkle of gaming. Many aren't going to notice the difference in gaming. And in multithreading synthetics video editing the 1055T performs better in practically all benchs. There for better deal.
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July 21, 2010 4:16:30 AM

OvrClkr said:
clock for clock the 750 will come out in front but that is easily resolved by raising the FSB a bit and pushing at least 3.5/3.6Ghz on 6 cores. It is "bang for buck" because LGA 1156 will be obsolete by the end of next year so while you are buying a CPU/MOBO and possibly a new set of ram, I am buying just the CPU :D  .. I can sacrifice a bit of performance for some $$, you can always overclock and close the gap between both CPU's

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20100209194503...

AM3 socket will be running for quite some time, not saying that LGA1156 is on the low end but the upgrade path sucks unless you have cash to burn ;)  . Not everyone is rich...

By the time that you REALLY need to upgrade, I guaranty that you will definitely need a new CPU/MB combo.

If you upgrade before you really have to, you are in fact spending more money.

By the way, do you agree that people who get an i5 now won't need to upgrade in a few years? Hope that you do.
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July 21, 2010 4:24:56 AM

aznshinobi said:
*Cough* People who don't game? If you compare the 965 vs 1055T, the 1055T loses in gaming too. It's just the fact that when you game the AMD Hexacores become tri-cores If i'm correct. Also, How is it less bang for the buck. The 1055T actually is the best bang for the buck. For a second, consider people who are just running synthetics, video editing, multithreading, and just a sprinkle of gaming. Many aren't going to notice the difference in gaming. And in multithreading synthetics video editing the 1055T performs better in practically all benchs. There for better deal.

It's you who mention CPU is not important in game. I just wanted to show you that the truth is opposite.

Most peoples' time are spent on apps that don't even utilize full potential of 3 threads, so you are going to see performance lost in most time with AMD hex. Hence, 750 is a much better deal for the majority considering it's much faster clock per clock.

However, no one is stopping you from getting an 1055T if you really spend 50%+ of your time in 6-thread apps. I don't think that's possible even for professional CADers though.
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a b K Overclocking
July 21, 2010 4:32:55 AM

No, I'm just tallking about your argument that the 750 beats the 1055T in most benches. If you look at the synthentics and multi-thread apps on that anandtech page you posted, the 1055T beats the 750 in most of those anyway, while you say the 1055T is actually beat over 50% in all those benches. The 1055T from me looking at all the benches looks likes it's par for par on benches and or maybe even beats the 750 in an extra benchmark or two.
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July 21, 2010 4:38:35 AM

aznshinobi said:
No, I'm just tallking about your argument that the 750 beats the 1055T in most benches. If you look at the synthentics and multi-thread apps on that anandtech page you posted, the 1055T beats the 750 in most of those anyway, while you say the 1055T is actually beat over 50% in all those benches. The 1055T from me looking at all the benches looks likes it's par for par on benches and or maybe even beats the 750 in an extra benchmark or two.

Synthetic = Imaginary!

Do you notice that the real world and synthetic 7-zip benchmark give a completely opposite result? 750 beats 1055T up to the pulp in REAL world benchmark.

By the way, I am sure that 750 wins in 50%+ case as I counted myself previously.
p.s. Do notice that the "lower" the "better" in some Anandtech benchs.
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a c 100 K Overclocking
July 21, 2010 4:43:56 AM

Instead of arguing which CPU is going to be better in which benchmarks, maybe we should consider the OP's uses for the CPU, yeah? He never actually said it, but given the CPUs he was looking at, it's fairly certain that he's talking about gaming. Therefore, we can exclude multithreading apps and look directly at the gaming benchmarks, in which the i5 750 is the winner.

Also of note is that, while expensive, you can upgrade the i5 750 to the i7 860 which is a quad core with hyper threading, for 8 logical cores. This is a pretty damn good CPU upgrade if it's even needed in several years and will negate the need to rebuild an entire system.
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a b K Overclocking
July 21, 2010 4:44:43 AM

This is ridiculous.

If we ignore the trolls, will they go away?

i'm sure this guy isn't too far away form a ban anyway, but this thread has become such a fanboy rant i fear the OP will not get his question answered correctly.
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a b K Overclocking
July 21, 2010 4:49:05 AM

Alright Wolfram, I'll stop, still I'd rather save 40 and get the 955 :D 
a b à CPUs
July 21, 2010 5:15:46 AM

Let's try to keep the OPs question in mind when posting. Try to stay on topic, and not on personal insults.

If you believe you're right, back it up with facts. Don't personally attack someone with an opposing opinion. Last warning to all....
July 21, 2010 11:41:27 AM

wolfram23 said:
Instead of arguing which CPU is going to be better in which benchmarks, maybe we should consider the OP's uses for the CPU, yeah? He never actually said it, but given the CPUs he was looking at, it's fairly certain that he's talking about gaming. Therefore, we can exclude multithreading apps and look directly at the gaming benchmarks, in which the i5 750 is the winner.

Also of note is that, while expensive, you can upgrade the i5 750 to the i7 860 which is a quad core with hyper threading, for 8 logical cores. This is a pretty damn good CPU upgrade if it's even needed in several years and will negate the need to rebuild an entire system.


Spot on mate. And after hearing all the arguments and doing some further research, I'm pro-i5 cos:

1. the i5 IS better (by quite a margin)
2. The price is justified *IMHO*
3. I mostly play a lot of CPU intensive games (RPGs, RTSs & sims...can't wait to see my max troops in mount & blade with the i5)
4. I've built 3 gaming PCs since 2000 and NONE of them have ever been an intel...so perhaps the time has come for me to join the dark side
5. Not worried about the i5 platform obsolescence as I always get a new platform with each upgrade...otherwise the upgrade isn't justified.
6. I found a very nice i5 + mobo combo which actually saved me over $10 compared to the equivalent AMD965 build!

(Right now it looks like the i5 alone can own ALL of AMDs offerings...gaming-wise...and then there are the i7s!!! It's all quite depressing really because AMD is so far behind and we really need a competitive CPU market otherwise intel will bleed us dry. )

And so I've ordered i5 + FRIO + mx3 paste (it's cost a bit extra but what the heck...I can afford it...well barely)

This weekend will see some very very very ungodly overclocking...bwahahaha :evil: 


Thanks all.
July 21, 2010 2:02:45 PM

Join us. Turn to the dark side, we have cookies.
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a c 100 K Overclocking
July 21, 2010 2:25:55 PM

Sounds good L0tus! Which mobo did you get?

As for AMD's offerings, apparently they'll have a new CPU out late this year or early next - Bulldozer. I don't know anything else about it but it has some people talking.

Of course, Intel is also coming out with Sandy Bridge so who knows what'll happen.
July 21, 2010 3:20:59 PM

Glad you asked cos I was just thinking about that.

The board I bought:

MSI P55-GD65 LGA1156 Intel P55 DDR3 - up to 2133(OC) ATX Motherboard / DrMOS on CPU, VTT and SuperPipe Cooling System

But what makes a good OC motherboard? Is just about the brand?


crazy random question: can you use 2 PSUs for one motherboard?
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a c 100 K Overclocking
July 21, 2010 3:34:38 PM

That mobo is pretty good for OCing as long as you don't get a defective one lol.

Seriously tho, I had the same one and it died on me while OCing (180 base clock, with turbo on, it died at 1.28 VTT and uh... 1.3 something Vcore)

On the other hand, I had it stable at 175 base clock with turbo on with slightly less voltage than my current Asus P7P55D PRO takes for the exact same OC.

I think the MSI board is quite good, it's just they seem to maybe have some quality issues at this time. When I got mine replaced at the store, the tech said that they've had quite a few MSI products coming back for RMA. But it could have been a first batch or something.

As for using 2 PSUs, yes you could. Although I think it might make more sense to run a single PSU for the mobo and a 2nd for the GPUs, but yeah, shouldn't matter. Not that I've tried it but I have heard of dedicated GPU PSUs and in theory there's no reason it wouldn't work.
July 21, 2010 4:22:09 PM

You've saved me Wolf.

I managed to change my MSI board for an almost-equally-priced Asus (and because I'm spending a lot, the store allowed me to keep the combo deal discount)

Now I've got an ASUS P7P55D PRO mobo just like yourself...oooh I'm so original!

Thanks again.
a b à CPUs
a c 100 K Overclocking
July 21, 2010 4:57:21 PM

Awesome man. Good to hear. That's a great board, I really really like mine. It's got all the options you could need.

Just one thing, some people report getting a bit of a squeal sound at idle. I had this too, but I found out it's something to do with C States, in particular C6. I think it's called "transistor resonance" or some crap. Anyway, by setting the C States to C3 instead it got rid of it. It's not super loud, but if it's quiet and you PC is idle, sitting beside you, it's definitely annoying. But yeah, it's not a big deal, and not everyboard has it, and it doesn't affect performance so... yeah. Just a heads up... (maybe I should have mentioned that sooner lol. Sorry)
July 22, 2010 8:07:49 AM

How do you intend to use 2 PSUs on one motherboard?

Are you intending using one PSU to feed the motherboard through the main 24-pin ATX connector and the second on the CPU through the 4/8-pin 12V connector? Feasible, though I am not sure what you would gain from it.

If you want to link two standard ATX power supplies to switch on together, go to the 24-pin ATX connectors and link the green wire from one to the green wire from the other. Do the same with two black wires, any two black wires, as long as one is from PSU 1 and one from PSU 2, like the greens. Black - black, green - green. The other wires you can leave unlinked.

What would make more sense would be to run a supply for motherboard and CPU (say, 650W for a potent CPU and overclock), a second for graphics card(s) (total GPU wattage + 10%, 25% if overclocking), and maybe a third one for HDDs and DVD burner (250W should be the most you will need here). Green wires connected, black wires connected. All three PSUs will operate as one.

It would still be much less effort, and easier to do, to get a single honkin' big power supply to run everything. Also lower odds of failure, and you only have to figure out where to stick one PSU. I have done this before, and I can assure you the case is a mess inside afterwards.

Hope this helps...
July 22, 2010 12:18:29 PM

I was thinking about future upgrades because I have a 550W PSU and a 400W PSU lying about some where. And I've purchased a 650W PSU for my current system. (the 550W PSU was a giveaway from some garage sale )

When I upgrade, I could I just these PSU's for the new system...given the trend, future systems could well be requiring a min 1000W...it's crazy (especially nVidia's new power-hungry cards!)
July 22, 2010 12:54:03 PM

Well, if you already have the supplies lying around, no reason why not.

Just remember that it's green to green, and black to black.
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
July 22, 2010 8:06:13 PM

Well... You can, I mean there are some people who buy drive bay power supplies to power just there HDD's CD/DVD Fans stuff like that, then they reserve the main PSU to the VGA cards and the mobo. So in essence you could just use the 650 to power the card and mobo then the 550watt to power the other stuff. BUT, don't do until you absolutely need to :p  I mean if your goin with ATI cards even in crossfore there is no need for over 600watts even for 5850 and 5870s in crossfire!
!