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GTX 295 3-Way SLI???
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teamlosigp
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Akebono 98
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No, you cannot because the GTX 295 does not have the necessary connectors for the 3-way SLI bridge.
If you're looking to run 3 dual GPU cards in tri-SLI, you'll have to keep your fingers crossed that nVidia builds in this feature in the GTX 395...
If you're looking to run 3 dual GPU cards in tri-SLI, you'll have to keep your fingers crossed that nVidia builds in this feature in the GTX 395...
- Feb 18, 2009
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teamlosigp
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Akebono 98
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This was a very fair question to be asked in a forum, especially because the answer is difficult to unearth (even from reading reviews) and one should be more careful when planning for such a large potential expenditure. I only knew because I looked into it carefully (out of personal interest).
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@cah027: Really more about driver support here. Since that hardware configuration is not possible, no one has written driver support for it yet (you can't 3-way a 4870x2, either). I think that it will really take a game with hyper-realistic graphics (like Alan Wake) to really need such GPU horsepower.
The more general issue is that scaling doesn't work as well with dual GPU cards, so there will always be that comparison, like 3 GTX 285 vs. 2 GTX 295. Here's a good article from Tom's with high-end benchmarks: article link.
Since it does take a while for drivers to catch up to this exotic edge, I would think that the smart money right now (if such expenditure can be called smart at all) on the i7 platform is to start with 1 GTX 295 and add a second one later. At least drivers will have improved by then and the envelope will have advanced sufficiently that you might need such a setup for general gaming use.
This is just my opinion so please, somebody correct me if I am wrong.
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@cah027: Really more about driver support here. Since that hardware configuration is not possible, no one has written driver support for it yet (you can't 3-way a 4870x2, either). I think that it will really take a game with hyper-realistic graphics (like Alan Wake) to really need such GPU horsepower.
The more general issue is that scaling doesn't work as well with dual GPU cards, so there will always be that comparison, like 3 GTX 285 vs. 2 GTX 295. Here's a good article from Tom's with high-end benchmarks: article link.
Since it does take a while for drivers to catch up to this exotic edge, I would think that the smart money right now (if such expenditure can be called smart at all) on the i7 platform is to start with 1 GTX 295 and add a second one later. At least drivers will have improved by then and the envelope will have advanced sufficiently that you might need such a setup for general gaming use.
This is just my opinion so please, somebody correct me if I am wrong.
L1qu1d
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well its a good opinion, but take example from the 9800 GX2, its still has problems in certain games with only 1 9800 GX2, until drivers come out. Thats why dual GPU card will always be dependant on drivers.
1 285 GTX is the best choice, or 260 GTX or 4870....I wouldn't recommend dual GPUs for any1 unless they have 1 slot on their mobo, or 30+ inch screens ( I wouls still recommend max 3 way sli even then or 3 way crossfire) just because games scale much better with 3 GPUs.
I had 9800 GX2 and 9800 GX2 quad, very lousy. I got really good results in some games, but in most, the frames either went down, or my min frame rate would be unbeleivably low ( 20 fps in Source, @ 1280x1024)....
What i didn't like about the 295 GTX is that for a card that is 6 months newer than the 4870 X2, it didn't really put much of a fight....I mean if it was single GPU, then that card would own
Thats my 2cents
Also 295 GTX has only 896 (or so) megs, and 448 bit buswidth, which really cripples it seeing as its a high end card. For 600$ at this time I would much rather had 295 GTX actually be atleast 2 280s
Drivers will mature but given a perfect world:
The 295 GTX is generally 20% faster than the 280 GTX.
so then 120%
295 GTX = 120%
2 295 GTX = 240% (in a perfect world with full scaling)
1 280 GTX = 100%
2 280 GTX = 200%
3 280 GTX = 300%
1 285 GTX = 110%
2 285 GTX = 220%
3 285 GTX = 330%
In a perfect world where scaling with another card is 100% These numbers can also change in favor if there were acutally 2 260s..
1 260 GTX = 80%
2 260 GTX = 160%
3 260 GTX = 240%
4 260 GTX = 320%
given if each card scaled in the 295 GTX.
So really you can play with a numbers a bit, and the main opinion would be the 295 GTX (in quad) is more of a hassle, as a single card, its well worth its price compared to 1 285 GTX.
1 285 GTX is the best choice, or 260 GTX or 4870....I wouldn't recommend dual GPUs for any1 unless they have 1 slot on their mobo, or 30+ inch screens ( I wouls still recommend max 3 way sli even then or 3 way crossfire) just because games scale much better with 3 GPUs.
I had 9800 GX2 and 9800 GX2 quad, very lousy. I got really good results in some games, but in most, the frames either went down, or my min frame rate would be unbeleivably low ( 20 fps in Source, @ 1280x1024)....
What i didn't like about the 295 GTX is that for a card that is 6 months newer than the 4870 X2, it didn't really put much of a fight....I mean if it was single GPU, then that card would own
Thats my 2cents
Also 295 GTX has only 896 (or so) megs, and 448 bit buswidth, which really cripples it seeing as its a high end card. For 600$ at this time I would much rather had 295 GTX actually be atleast 2 280s
Drivers will mature but given a perfect world:
The 295 GTX is generally 20% faster than the 280 GTX.
so then 120%
295 GTX = 120%
2 295 GTX = 240% (in a perfect world with full scaling)
1 280 GTX = 100%
2 280 GTX = 200%
3 280 GTX = 300%
1 285 GTX = 110%
2 285 GTX = 220%
3 285 GTX = 330%
In a perfect world where scaling with another card is 100%
These numbers can also change in favor if there were acutally 2 260s..1 260 GTX = 80%
2 260 GTX = 160%
3 260 GTX = 240%
4 260 GTX = 320%
given if each card scaled in the 295 GTX.
So really you can play with a numbers a bit, and the main opinion would be the 295 GTX (in quad) is more of a hassle, as a single card, its well worth its price compared to 1 285 GTX.
Akebono 98
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Great post, L1qu1d--many thanks. 
One other point that is sometimes overlooked when making these types of comparisons is that although 20% may not sound like much on paper (e.g. 40% more cost for 20% more performance = not worth it), if that extra increment occurs right around the playable / non-playable point (e.g. going from 25 fps to 40 fps) then the extra bump is more than worth it. Or alternatively, the extra performance increment just allows a little more eye-candy to make you happy.
That's just the nature of the diminishing returns curve at this level.
One other point that is sometimes overlooked when making these types of comparisons is that although 20% may not sound like much on paper (e.g. 40% more cost for 20% more performance = not worth it), if that extra increment occurs right around the playable / non-playable point (e.g. going from 25 fps to 40 fps) then the extra bump is more than worth it. Or alternatively, the extra performance increment just allows a little more eye-candy to make you happy.
That's just the nature of the diminishing returns curve at this level.
L1qu1d
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Exactly^
For example, lets say my friend's system is 20% faster than mine, but both system play the game at 60 fps....do I care if he gets more frames when really for LCDs all you need for high paced games is 60? nope
But your right, when put on paper, 10-20% can be a breaker.
25 fps vs 30 fps thats 17% difference.
Thats why overclocking has become so popular, seeing as most cards can acheive around 10% atleast in most cases.
I'm trying to get used to turning off shadows in games on my laptop (since thats what most of the time kills ur frames) that way I'm ready when games become stressful for my laptop.
And yes your right Akebono, most ppl don't take notice that just because the 295 (for example) is 10-15% faster than the 4870 X2, its about 100$ more expensive, that doesn't justify the 10-15% gain.
I would say that the safest cards to invest in would be the old 260s, and 280s since they are sooo cheap (for single GPU gaming, since I doubt u'll find them for dual in the future) and the 260 GTX sp 216 and 4870 1 gig.
That way you don't spend enough money to make u cry
But the best Price/Performance card to date, I beleive is the 4830
I'm glad you enjoyed my post.
For example, lets say my friend's system is 20% faster than mine, but both system play the game at 60 fps....do I care if he gets more frames when really for LCDs all you need for high paced games is 60? nope
But your right, when put on paper, 10-20% can be a breaker.
25 fps vs 30 fps thats 17% difference.
Thats why overclocking has become so popular, seeing as most cards can acheive around 10% atleast in most cases.
I'm trying to get used to turning off shadows in games on my laptop (since thats what most of the time kills ur frames
) that way I'm ready when games become stressful for my laptop.And yes your right Akebono, most ppl don't take notice that just because the 295 (for example) is 10-15% faster than the 4870 X2, its about 100$ more expensive, that doesn't justify the 10-15% gain.
I would say that the safest cards to invest in would be the old 260s, and 280s since they are sooo cheap (for single GPU gaming, since I doubt u'll find them for dual in the future) and the 260 GTX sp 216 and 4870 1 gig.
That way you don't spend enough money to make u cry
But the best Price/Performance card to date, I beleive is the 4830
I'm glad you enjoyed my post.
Akebono 98
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Just so that no casual readers of this thread get confused, my earlier 25 to 40 fps example was not meant to illustrate the 20% performance increase, but rather, the crossing of the playable / non-playable hump. It comes from this Crysis benchmark (what else??), which I just pulled out of the air for illustrative purposes: link. Crysis at 1920x1200 (24"), eye candy turned off, a single GTX 280 (extrapolate for GTX 285) vs. GTX 295. This is just an example where the GTX 295 makes sense over the GTX 285.
+1 on the shadows off setting.
Old GTX 260s and 280s are great--especially with eVGA's new voltage tuner!
+1 on the shadows off setting.
Old GTX 260s and 280s are great--especially with eVGA's new voltage tuner!
gamerk316
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GX2/X2 cards are dependent on drivers, as L1quid said, but L1quid, 20 FPS with any source game is horrific, the GX2 does far better than that...
For instance, my GX2 hates every 18x driver so far (hard PC lockups, and I know its driver related) except for 181.20 (which is 98% stable; 2 lockups per 100 hours comp useage so far...). I wonder whats going to happen when the 295's start running into the same problems...
Its always better to get a single powerful GPU, less reliance on drivers.
For instance, my GX2 hates every 18x driver so far (hard PC lockups, and I know its driver related) except for 181.20 (which is 98% stable; 2 lockups per 100 hours comp useage so far...). I wonder whats going to happen when the 295's start running into the same problems...
Its always better to get a single powerful GPU, less reliance on drivers.
L1qu1d
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The 20 fps was not an avg, it was my min frame rate when I was quad sli enabled.
As for the 295 GTX, the 20% is an overall average of what it gets over the 285 GTX in general, sometimes its only 10% sometimes its 40%, but the general average is 20%-30% (I've only seen 20%).
Even with a generous 40% over the 285
2 295 GTX 280%
3 285 GTX 330%
(Again these are in a perfect world)
Look at these charts as a general and overall frame rate
Thats the average over all the resolutions and all the games they tested.
And this is at 1920x1200 over all the gains.
So for all the resolutions combined, the 295 GTX is generally only 10% stronger, while at 1920x1200, the 295 GTX is 21% stronger.
As for the 295 GTX, the 20% is an overall average of what it gets over the 285 GTX in general, sometimes its only 10% sometimes its 40%, but the general average is 20%-30% (I've only seen 20%).
Even with a generous 40% over the 285
2 295 GTX 280%
3 285 GTX 330%
(Again these are in a perfect world)
Look at these charts as a general and overall frame rate
Thats the average over all the resolutions and all the games they tested.
And this is at 1920x1200 over all the gains.
So for all the resolutions combined, the 295 GTX is generally only 10% stronger, while at 1920x1200, the 295 GTX is 21% stronger.
L1qu1d
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no it isn't but it does put a good fight.
I would never say buy a 285 over either 295 GTX or 4870 X2 if yoru looking for price performance, but if your looking for a solid foundation, then a strong single GPU card is your best bet.
These reviews were from Techpowerup.com, its a pretty respectable site, and have decent reviews
here is a more up to date table
For all the avgs of the games @ that resolution that they have conducted, and here is the site for the review
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_295/30.html
From everything I've seen and with the price declines in the States and Canada, the 4870 X2 is the best Price/Performance High end card, and the 4830 is the Best Price for performance card over all If you can get a 4870 X2 for 100$ less than tha 295 GTX, I would say that the 100$ you save MORE than justifies the 3 % you loose. basically your paying 1$ per .03% performance gain going from 4870 X2 to 295 GTX.
I would never say buy a 285 over either 295 GTX or 4870 X2 if yoru looking for price performance, but if your looking for a solid foundation, then a strong single GPU card is your best bet.
These reviews were from Techpowerup.com, its a pretty respectable site, and have decent reviews
here is a more up to date table
For all the avgs of the games @ that resolution that they have conducted, and here is the site for the review
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_295/30.html
From everything I've seen and with the price declines in the States and Canada, the 4870 X2 is the best Price/Performance High end card, and the 4830 is the Best Price for performance card over all
If you can get a 4870 X2 for 100$ less than tha 295 GTX, I would say that the 100$ you save MORE than justifies the 3 % you loose. basically your paying 1$ per .03% performance gain going from 4870 X2 to 295 GTX.Akebono 98
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L1qu1d :
From everything I've seen and with the price declines in the States and Canada, the 4870 X2 is the best Price/Performance High end card, and the 4830 is the Best Price for performance card over all If you can get a 4870 X2 for 100$ less than tha 295 GTX, I would say that the 100$ you save MORE than justifies the 3 % you loose. basically your paying 1$ per .03% performance gain going from 4870 X2 to 295 GTX.
If you can get a 4870 X2 for 100$ less than tha 295 GTX, I would say that the 100$ you save MORE than justifies the 3 % you loose. basically your paying 1$ per .03% performance gain going from 4870 X2 to 295 GTX.
+1
Maziar
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L1qu1d :
no it isn't but it does put a good fight.
I would never say buy a 285 over either 295 GTX or 4870 X2 if yoru looking for price performance, but if your looking for a solid foundation, then a strong single GPU card is your best bet.
These reviews were from Techpowerup.com, its a pretty respectable site, and have decent reviews
here is a more up to date table
http://i1.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_295/images/perfrel_1920.gif
For all the avgs of the games @ that resolution that they have conducted, and here is the site for the review
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_295/30.html
From everything I've seen and with the price declines in the States and Canada, the 4870 X2 is the best Price/Performance High end card, and the 4830 is the Best Price for performance card over all If you can get a 4870 X2 for 100$ less than tha 295 GTX, I would say that the 100$ you save MORE than justifies the 3 % you loose. basically your paying 1$ per .03% performance gain going from 4870 X2 to 295 GTX.
I would never say buy a 285 over either 295 GTX or 4870 X2 if yoru looking for price performance, but if your looking for a solid foundation, then a strong single GPU card is your best bet.
These reviews were from Techpowerup.com, its a pretty respectable site, and have decent reviews
here is a more up to date table
http://i1.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_295/images/perfrel_1920.gif
For all the avgs of the games @ that resolution that they have conducted, and here is the site for the review
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_295/30.html
From everything I've seen and with the price declines in the States and Canada, the 4870 X2 is the best Price/Performance High end card, and the 4830 is the Best Price for performance card over all
If you can get a 4870 X2 for 100$ less than tha 295 GTX, I would say that the 100$ you save MORE than justifies the 3 % you loose. basically your paying 1$ per .03% performance gain going from 4870 X2 to 295 GTX.
Well said,HD 4870X2 has got a nice price drop which makes it a good option and the difference between GTX 295 and HD 4870X2 isnt much either.
Jack64
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Man, excellent thread!!! I went with the GTX295 for the sole reason, I did not and do not plan to run sli and this card did it for me internally, and so far is all I could have hoped for. But you are exactly right, quad 295's just aren't worth it, I think it is the internal sli combined with the external sli that seems to kind of take the wind out of it's sails. But as a single card...it rocks. I don't think I will regret my decision to go with a single 295. But quad....not worth it, go with a single gpu card and sli it.
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