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ATI 4890

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February 20, 2009 9:29:02 PM

http://www.techtree.com/India/News/AMD_to_Unveil_ATI_Ra...

Is this true and will it be faster than 4850x2. I personally am thinking of one of those if 4870x2 is too much for a phenom 9850?

so 4870->4890->5870? Whats your say?

More about : ati 4890

a c 171 U Graphics card
February 20, 2009 11:46:11 PM

I've heard this rumor before. I don't see how the extra 160SP will make it faster then any x2. +160SP plus the extra 100MHz in core speed will probably put it on top of the GTX260 216, but not much faster then that.
February 21, 2009 12:16:39 AM

4745454b said:
I've heard this rumor before. I don't see how the extra 160SP will make it faster then any x2. +160SP plus the extra 100MHz in core speed will probably put it on top of the GTX260 216, but not much faster then that.


From the looks of it the 4890 is nothing more than a 4870 with the redundant "repair structures" activated and a factory overclock. I agree that the shaders and overclock alone won't increase speed that much, but if all of the redundant structures are activated then there would also be an additional 8 TMU's and that should help performance a good bit. Assuming it actually does get produced it will probably occupy the slot between the GTX260-216 and the GTX285, just like the 4870 did with the original GTX260 and GTX280.

I haven't heard anyone say it'll be faster than an X2 card. Mostly what I've been hearing is "up to 20% faster" than a 4870, and that would likely be only in a few specific titles. What I will be more interested in seeing is whether or not the rumored $199 MSRP is accurate because if so it will mean big trouble for Nvidia as I really don't think they can afford to do another price cut and still make a profit.
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February 21, 2009 2:34:42 AM

The 199$ may be true, newegg is discounting some 4870's to around 150
February 21, 2009 4:26:58 AM

It doesn't sound like much, but 960SP and 48 TMU's are an extra 20% more stuff than the HD 4870, combined with a 13% increase in clockspeed, a 20%+ gain is very possible.
February 21, 2009 5:45:50 AM

Maybe a increase in physics engine and core engine.
February 21, 2009 1:24:48 PM

Dekasav said:
It doesn't sound like much, but 960SP and 48 TMU's are an extra 20% more stuff than the HD 4870, combined with a 13% increase in clockspeed, a 20%+ gain is very possible.


It should be the same gains the 260 GTS SP 216 had over the 260 GTX 192. Don't expect much, def not 20% I can gaurantee that.

Its going to be a really good refresh though. I would say maybe 5-10% increase in performance, over the 4870, and yes I think that it would prob put it over the 260 GTX.

Don't get your hopes up with the card, remember how our hopes came crashing down when the 4870 wasn't 50% stronger than the 9800 GX2, or stronger at all
a c 171 U Graphics card
February 21, 2009 1:50:23 PM

Quote:
Don't get your hopes up with the card, remember how our hopes came crashing down when the 4870 wasn't 50% stronger than the 9800 GX2, or stronger at all


I don't remember hoping that, nor do I remember anyone saying it would be. My "hope" is that its stronger then the GTX260, any version of it. As mentioned, with the extra SP and increase in clock speed, it should be. In some games, it might even edge out the GTX280. For $200 (if it comes in at that point, I suspect it will be higher as the 1GB 4870s are normally around $240ish.) it will once again be the card to have.
February 21, 2009 1:56:18 PM

with 160 SP and 100 mhz, I doubt it will match the 280 GTX, I'm pretty sure it will outperform the 260 GTX, but lets not get overboard:) 

There were charts from ATI beforethe 4870 was released should it up to 50% stronger than the 9800 GX2. So just cuz you didn't get your hopes up doesn't mean myself or others didn't.

Look at the specs of this ccard, and remember that the ATI SP don't match up to the value system of the Nvidia SP system, from what I remember isn't 1 ATI sp = 3 SP Nvidia or 2 (just an example).
The only thing I'm hoping for this card is that its more powerful thant he 260 GTX, so that prices go down, but I don't expect it to get the Single GPU crown from those specs.
February 21, 2009 2:49:17 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Don't get your hopes up with the card, remember how our hopes came crashing down when the 4870 wasn't 50% stronger than the 9800 GX2, or stronger at all


Who here thought that? Anyone.......? :heink: 


Alas, I remember it well, a particularly dark period in my life,having all my hopes and dreams shattered like that. hard to talk about actually,but my psychiatrist said its time to begin the healing process . I was thinking maybe we could form a support group forum here. L1Quid, would you like to lead it?
February 21, 2009 3:03:27 PM

lol
a b U Graphics card
February 21, 2009 3:25:00 PM

Theres speculation as to which TSMC process will be used on this gpu. As seen here http://www.tsmc.com/english/b_technology/b01_platform/b...
the current process id the GP mode, and speculation has a possibility of it moving to GC, for higher perf. Also, again speculation has it using more SPs, TMUs etc etc. After the 4xxx series release, and how they "snuck up" on nVidia, its just too hard to explain whats really going to come out at this point. As for the 2x the perf of ANY nVidia product, Id need to see links, as I recall the only ATI slides Ive seen showed perf of 4xxx series against the 3xxx series, and its what weve basically seen up to this point. If ATI has made claims (again, Id like to see links) of 20% better perf with this new gpu, then from what was shown by ATI earlier, Id have to somewhat believe them at this point, as in the case of the 4xxx series rrelease, they were pretty much dead on
February 21, 2009 3:57:54 PM

I don't remember, but may be the 50% faster than 9800GX2 was when SLI wasn't enabled.
a b U Graphics card
February 21, 2009 4:13:46 PM

I think Ive seen this site once or twice, but is that from ATI?
February 21, 2009 4:19:51 PM

sites were saying it was I'll be honest not all have been, but this isn't the only 1. Theres another 1 that shows ratios....1.3 1.2 etc.
a b U Graphics card
February 21, 2009 4:29:49 PM

Well, I usually find better sources than that. Its always best to go to the sites or resources thatve proven themselves in the past, and post things not for hits n giggles, but for information
February 21, 2009 4:32:15 PM

I'm just saying ppl need to lower the bar, so they aint disappointed.
a c 169 U Graphics card
February 21, 2009 4:34:39 PM

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/200902191501...

ATI RV770/790 graphics processing units feature 800 stream processors, 40 texture units, 16 render back ends as well as 256-bit memory bus compatible with GDDR3, GDDR4 and GDDR5 memory types. The RV790 will feature higher clock-speeds, but not increased number of execution units.

Performance increases of the graphics card that is projected to be called ATI Radeon HD 4890 over the existing Radeon HD 4870 1GB should not be high as the difference between two products will be increases of clock-speeds. In case the graphics card designer decides to release ATI Radeon HD 4890 X2, performance gain should be modest as well.

"This is exactly the same situation as in the case of transition from ATI Radeon 9800 Pro to ATI Radeon 9800 XT back in 2003, performance gain will not be massive," a person wished to remain anonymous said.
a b U Graphics card
February 21, 2009 4:44:13 PM

Since the 5xxx series wont be released until Q3, this is all we will have. If its 100Mhz faster, that translates to 13% in speeds at stock. Maybe 15% overall.Thatd put it right behind the 285, ahead of the 280 by a nudge or comparable. In games the 4870 wins in, itll dominate, all others, itll be close, but the real factor will be cost. At low pricing, this could deal a serious blow to nVidias high end, as there really wont be any perf differences to be seen, just costs
February 21, 2009 4:49:41 PM

the 280 gtx is seen to be 15-20% faster than the 4870 lol, so wouldn't that put it 5% behind 280 GTX (excluding grid)??
a b U Graphics card
February 21, 2009 4:57:26 PM

Im saying about the same. It could be 5% or not, it depends on how these cards respond to the higher frequencies vs perf in games. You wouldnt notice a difference is what I am saying, and at the quoted 199$ or so pricing, thats where itll be at, as ATI will continue to rachet up their cost/perf ratio against the competition
February 21, 2009 5:11:30 PM

I'm still saying that its the golden age for 4870 X2 and 4830 ATm.

And I'm seeing the 4870 1 gigcoming down as low as 189.99 after MIR, which is really good.

Nvidia should be giving off a response soon, and I'll make my move and buy another 285 GTX:D 
February 21, 2009 9:16:25 PM

Isn't grid *The way its mean to be played* game ?
a c 106 U Graphics card
February 21, 2009 10:11:42 PM

With 20% extra processing resources and a modest increase in clock speed it's possible for the 4890 to be on par and perhaps overtake the GTX 280/285 especially with overclocked models. I don't think that will matter though ad the real goal here is to take two of them and make a card that is stronger and cheaper to produce than the 295. We'll see if this rumor is true and what kind of performance the 40nm cards from ATI will bring in the coming months.
February 21, 2009 11:44:32 PM

How about we all predict then:) .

I say its going to be as strong as 1 GPu from the 295 GTX.

Any other opinions?

And Grid favors Ati, which is too bad for my main system because I love that game, plus Dirt
February 22, 2009 3:15:06 AM

I concur, HD 4890 will STOMP the GTX 295.
a c 169 U Graphics card
February 22, 2009 5:19:34 AM

to Dekasav:
Did u read the link that i post ?
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/200902191501...

Performance increases of the graphics card that is projected to be called ATI Radeon HD 4890 over the existing Radeon HD 4870 1GB should not be high as the difference between two products will be increases of clock-speeds. In case the graphics card designer decides to release ATI Radeon HD 4890 X2, performance gain should be modest as well.
a b U Graphics card
February 22, 2009 7:07:08 AM

At this point, Ill say it again, no one really knows hat the numbers are. Im thinking what Maziar is saying is mostly true, but will be better than just a small bump. My guess is somewheres between 12-18%, depending on game and final real clocks etc. It may fall right under the G28x's in perf, but not enough to notice. This reminds me of the 1900xtx vs the 7900GTX, tho it may be reversed this time around, with nVidia having the slight edge, but again, itll be the pricing that really seperates these gpus
February 22, 2009 12:16:43 PM

Dekasav said:
I concur, HD 4890 will STOMP the GTX 295.



I said = to 1 GPU of the 295 GTX not both. I don't see anything above 10% increase in performance. Although I'm hoping that it can atleast match 1 of the 295s cores so that prices shift again. Because the 295 GPU (Not both just 1), is about 10% faster than the 4870 1 gig, so I think it will be able to match it for sure:D . It will alteast scare Nvidia into lowering costs.

Just ashame that both companies are making revisions, though I'm not seeing any1 point that out;)
a c 171 U Graphics card
February 22, 2009 1:57:01 PM

It won't be like the 9800pro and 9800XT. Those cards had the same internals, the XT was simply clocked a bit higher. (412MHz vs high 300s if my memory serves.) The 4890 is not only clocked higher, but is supposed to come with more SP. If its going to have an extra 160 SP, then it will be a bit faster then the 4870. More then the 9800XT was faster then the 9800pro.

My prediction, assuming it does ship with 960SP and an extra 100MHz on the core, is that the 4890 will once again top the GTX260, even the 216 model. For most games, it will continue to trail the GTX280, though it will be close. There will also be a few games where the 4890 will be faster, possibly even reaching the GTX285.
February 22, 2009 2:54:12 PM

^agreed, i mean its basically like saying 280 GTX vs 280 GTX OC2....its not the same case.

This card has additions instead of just a GPU die revision + oc. The 285 is a 55nm die shrink and a pretty high OC (considering the 280 GTX couldn't oc worth poop...I would know). the 4890 like 4745454b said, will feature 160 sp and 100 mhz oc (though I would've liked to see more).

We'll have to wait and see. Frankly I'm not interested in buying a new card till I see a single GPu card atleast almost doubling the 285 GTX:) 
February 22, 2009 4:22:07 PM

Apparently I should remember that sarcasm doesn't speak well over the internets...

I suppose since we have reports out of more SP and reports that say otherwise, really, we'll have to wait for the cards. With just a clock increase, probably only 10% increase in performance; with the extra shaders, it could hit 20% in some cases.
February 23, 2009 6:30:26 PM

If ATi price their card right nvidia might be in trouble. No one in their right mind would buy a card with up to $150 more expensive for a slighty performance increase. A 4890x2 will satisfy the extreme gamers if 4890 is success but seriously we need the HD5870 and the gtx380.
February 23, 2009 8:52:10 PM

we need a new line of cards, at first it wasn't as bad that only Nvidia was refreshin but now both companies are, and its not always a good thing for common consumers. Though I'm more of the, show me what you can do user, rather than show me what you can slightly improve upon:p .

Personally I don't think Nvidia will be any more trouble than AMD will be especially with the Recession. Remember AMD was very close to bankrupcy if it wasn't for the what 300 mill given from Germany (Recollection, don't quote me).
a b U Graphics card
February 23, 2009 9:39:53 PM

Trouble is, even tho AMD is "in trouble", that doesnt help nVidia sell gpus today or when these cards come out. nVidia is blowing it big time, as theyve managed nothing new in the mid to lower end, and had just continued to rename their old gpus, and have not given the new card (G2xx series) that are the renamed older series to certain sites, as theyve crossed the line by telling the truth, that nVidia isnt doing anything in the mid and lower market, just renaming, and has created bad attitudes from many a site, their high end may be threatened by this release, and as Ive said, their mid and low end is old re-renamed stuff. Its going to be [H]ard for nVidia to get a decent break from these sites now, and the pricing pressure is on. They didnt do ATI/AMD any favors when they had the vast lead, and wont get any this time around from them. Theyve managed to alienate almost everything that matters to them, their gpus over priced and the renaming has turned off alot of customers, former customers, and their marketing is taking a huge hit, their older gpus were failing in Lappys, you name it, nVidia is imploding
February 23, 2009 9:50:35 PM

Like I said, no company is out of the water, but don't be ignorant to the idea that both companies aren't where they should be. Remember Nvidia is losing money, while amd/ATI is making money in debt. So really no company is technically "winning".

And from the charts I've seen in Steam survey, most ppl that use steam have Nvidia still.

Ever thought maybe the company didn't want to manage a low end? Its funny how ATI doesn't make a super high end like nvidia, and the excuse is they don't want to, while Nvidia doesn't make a low end and its because they can't.

Frankly I don't even know what we're trying to aheive by having either company loose.

In my opinion the next series should be the make or break. I mean the 2000s and 3000s kinda broke ATI, and the 9 series from Nvidia broke their customers away since all the cards were basically renames (except GX2). And with the 200s, they over priced at first. Soooo 2 faults.

5000s and 300s:)  Lets hope they come out even, that way we get that price war we all love:) tech
February 23, 2009 10:14:30 PM

Yes I understand that, and I dont' deny it, I'm just saying don't just see the faults in 1 company. Recently you've been looking the other way too much. And I don't know why. You use to be down the middle :p 

I think we need Intel to jump in;)
a b U Graphics card
February 23, 2009 10:37:03 PM

If ATI renamed a card for the fourth time or whatever, if nVidia had great pricing before the 4xxx launch, if they hadnt sent "special" cards out for their G2xx series mid and low end launch to reviewers. All these things, plus the laptop gpu deal, the denials etc have turned me off towards nVidia, and I wont be toyed with like this. It seems anyone who presents the truth about nVidias dealings of late get shafted by them as well. If ATI did these things, Id find it sadder than I already do for nVidia, but its sad nonetheless
February 23, 2009 10:43:24 PM

See thats what doesn't really bother me. I mean if the company didn't trick me, it makes me feel smarter than the company, which make me happy:) .

Frankly Basing this on which company you like over the other is stupid, because that won't affect what YOU specifically are looking for. I mean lets say you wanted the strongest single GPU card, you wouldn't buy it because the company toyed with ppl?

Come on, no1 is telling you to not hate the company, but don't start pushing purchases towards a company that might not be needed by some. If you read your posts agian, you'd see that the way your speakinga bout Nvidia its like your telling ppl to stay away, yet at the same time you don't want them to lose or fail.

Frankly I judge the card by the performance, not by the logo. Not saying you do, but you posts are brutally (Accurate) but at the same time very biased. No1 is saying lean green, but atleast have a foot out there. I mean I lean either way, I lean towards Nvidia for performance, and towards ATI for P/P. But I don't judge the company because I don't care. If they have what I need they can be Hitler for all I care.
a b U Graphics card
February 23, 2009 10:59:29 PM

Ive recommended many an nVidia card, it doesnt change the facts of what nVidia had been doing, nor does it seem to be left unsaid either. I care about the truth of reviews, the consistancy. I find alot of info from them, but of theyre tainted, how can this be? Corruption isnt good in small or large form. Doing some of the things nVidia has done lately has not only shown some corruption from nVidia, but adds collusion from the sites that go along with it, and now, if theyve voiced complaints about these things, theyre being omitted from reviewing these (new) cards.
That being said, theres ruleas and laws that should be followed before there actually HAVE to be rules and laws, I point to Wall Mart. They may not break the laws, but they do bend the rules, making for protectionist laws in certain countries, towns etc. This is sad. nVidia needs to win on their merits, which theyre capable of, not by this underhandedness theyve been doing lately.
Now, I will buy an nVidia card in the future, as Im sure theyll have something Ill like, but itll take awhile for my decision to be an easy one after all this, especially regarding the laptop issue, where it effects users directly
February 23, 2009 11:07:03 PM

well whether this is right or wrong, is more of a moral choice. Frankly if I can sell my droppings as new fresh food to ppl, and ppl are buying it I'd have to be an idiot not to:) . Whether thats morally right or not, well thats up to my conscience. If ppl choose to switch over to other companies and not eat my poop, well when it comes down to that road I'll bring in fresh food:) . In all honesty though, does a card like a 9800 GT (pwoer wise) not seem appealing? :)  I mean most games can be maxed out by my laptop which is 10-20% slower than a 9800 GT. So if we rename them and then charge 20$ more, it won't really hurt the public would it? i mean we're not talking about 100s of $s. And really prices can go up even if the name changes or not. But atleast this way you have a reason.

I don't see u complaining about the ATI revisions:p  I mean its basically what Nvidia did, more SPs, more mhz....just not die shrink (that I kno of:p ).
Only thing I hate is no1 said anything bad about this, I mean the 285 GTX is around 350$ compared to the 400$ 280, thats a price drop? right?

Anywho we'll see when it comes out. I might as well sell my 4870 X2 while it still has value, any buyers?
a b U Graphics card
February 23, 2009 11:15:19 PM

I'll buy that X2 if it's really, really cheap :D 
February 23, 2009 11:20:34 PM

I'm selling it for 250-300$ :p  I think that seems reasonable :D  haha

Not on as much as before where have u been:D  haha:p  or maybe I just don't see it:p 
a b U Graphics card
February 23, 2009 11:22:15 PM

That's only $60 more than a 1GB HD4870 is here (after currency conversion and excluding shipping), not bad at all :)  It normally goes for another $300 AU (about $700-750 AU total).
a b U Graphics card
February 23, 2009 11:23:09 PM

Ihad nothing at all bad to say about the 285, but, the + addition had me laughing, and also, at the time, all the nVidia fanbois were still certain the 4850 wasnt as good as the 9800GTX, so I had a lil fun. Refreshes are a needed thing in gpus, and at no time would I want the gpu market as stagnant as the cpu market. I enjoy them. But, since many a refresh is portrayed as a 1 upsmanship attitude, this I dont agree with, or denial, as if nVidia was superior to begin with, which I knew at the time wasnt so, so I repeatedly pointed it out. This should not be construed as fanboyism, but disdain towards it actually. Ive admitted my fondness of ATI over nVidia, but like Ive said, Ill buy nVidia if the price/perf is right. However, all the things nVidias done lately shouldnt be left unsaid, and whether it makes a difference towards others on their future purchases, its truly up to them. Alot of the problem is this, it seems when 1 company gets in the lead for awhile, many jump on their train, and all the OMZZZZ ITZ RULZZZZ crap starts, and after awhile, it gets old, and when the competition has a comeback, I may partake in it, as I did with the ATI resurgence, which we really needed as consumers
a b U Graphics card
February 23, 2009 11:25:29 PM

Also, as seen by my posts in the cpu section on P2
!