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ATI 4650 or 4670? (PSU limitation)

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February 23, 2009 7:49:54 AM

Hi all,

I need a decent GPU sub 85$. I have shortlisted ati 4670 and 4650.

Now the problem is should i go for 4650 or 4670. I know 4670 performs better but I doubt my unbranded 400W PSU will be able to run it. My psu has 15 (or maybe 18, i forgot) amps on 12v rail.

Will i be able to run 4670? or should i buy 4650?

Also, please tell what will happen if in put a 4670 in my system.

Thanks
a c 130 U Graphics card
February 23, 2009 8:02:44 AM

The 4670 dosent need extra power, it takes all its power from the PCIE slot and as such should have no issues working in your system.

What GPU are you on at the minuite ?
Mactronix
February 23, 2009 8:53:23 AM

Full specs:

Intel D805 2.66GHZ proccessor
Intel 945 GNTL OEM motherboard
Asus 6200TC
1 DVD ROM drive
1x 160 GB Seagate HDD
2x1 GB DDR2 Ram
Unbranded 400W PSU with 15 (or 18)amps on +12V rail

I'm just kinda worried if my Mother board will be be able to give the power required to the gpu from the PCIE x16 slot because it gets only 15 (or 18)amps from the 12V rail.

Thanks anyways!
Related resources
February 23, 2009 9:06:03 AM

Dude my lan tower at work is running a 4670 on a 15amp 300w without problems. The rest is via mobo and a E2180 80 gig hard drive dvd rom
February 23, 2009 9:12:56 AM

cyber_jockey said:
Dude my lan tower at work is running a 4670 on a 15amp 300w without problems. The rest is via mobo and a E2180 80 gig hard drive dvd rom


Wow, which brand PSU?
a c 130 U Graphics card
February 23, 2009 9:53:18 AM

While its not a strictly speaking a standard as far as there is no actual law. Its generally regarded as such that a PCIE slot provides 75 Watts.
Mactronix
February 23, 2009 10:00:16 AM

mactronix said:
While its not a strictly speaking a standard as far as there is no actual law. Its generally regarded as such that a PCIE slot provides 75 Watts.
Mactronix


What i mean to say is that i dont want my PC to crash on full load due to shortage of power.

Anyone else running a 4670?

And which card has more Value for money, 4670 or 4650?
February 23, 2009 11:40:11 AM

Just make sure you are using 24 pin main power connector and not 20 pin. In case it's 20 pin, check that you've alternate 4 pin power connector on motherboard and plug into that too.

4670 @ $76 has less value than 4650 @ $55 as for cheapest available ones. 4830 @$90 has best value in the market presently.

http://xtreview.com/addcomment-id-6278-view-Radeon-HD-4...
February 23, 2009 12:42:46 PM

Will check....

BTW, will i see any significant improvement in FPS (given above my specs)?
February 23, 2009 2:47:33 PM

My pc at work's psu is top silent aka top crap but its running fine with the 24 pin mobo.
February 23, 2009 2:48:01 PM

My pc at work's psu is top silent aka top crap but its running fine with the 24 pin mobo.
February 23, 2009 3:17:58 PM

get 4670 ddr4!
February 23, 2009 3:34:29 PM

6200TC is a nothing card for modern games. There will be heck of improvement in every game you play and in HD video playback with either of those cards.
February 23, 2009 3:57:01 PM

Doom I think you will be safe I am running a 4870 on a 500watt power supply with no problems and my card requires a external hook up. So I would think its more then a safe bet your power supply could handle a 4670 with out breaking a sweat. Yes there will be a improvement in gaming gonna go out on a limb and say a HUGE improvement since your running built in video now lol.

Doom what brand cards you looking at?
a c 177 U Graphics card
February 23, 2009 4:16:26 PM

@ YOUR_DOOM, That PSU is fine, the 4650/4670 is a perfect match for it and the rest of your system. We`re seeing quite a few Dell owners here, looking for the same sort of thing; A graphics boost with a 14 or 15 Amps Dell PSU, often of under 300W and they seem to be happy with these cards.
As for value, the 4670 is `nt hugely faster than the 4650 but faster is is:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_4650_OC

As for what will happen; Your framereate will improve no end and you will probably be able to use a little AA/AF to boot, which will make them look better as well.
BTW the 4670 uses about 48W at at full load (4 Amps) anf the 4650 a little less:

http://archive.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=7&t=93...
February 23, 2009 4:38:07 PM

Get the 4670. You get 20-30% more performance for a few bucks more.
February 24, 2009 1:15:55 AM

Wow, thanks a lot for the awesome replies :) 

Thanks for the really helpful link, coozie7

@hotroderx
I am deciding between palit and sapphire, still not sure where to go. Can anyone help?

Also, i dont mind spending a few bucks more to get a future proof card, cuz i cant upgrade my system every 6 months. So, whats the final verdict? HD4670 or HD4650

Also please tell which brand to go for, palit, sapphire or some other?

FYI, im using a 24 pin power connector for the Motherboard, my PSU dosen't have a 6 pin PCIE connector and im not interested in upgrading my psu anytime soon. :cry: 
a b U Graphics card
February 24, 2009 1:19:30 AM

You can always go for ebay and get a used 4830 or 9800GT/8800GT for around $80
February 24, 2009 1:26:27 AM

Uh, that needs a 6pin PCIE power adapter, right?

I dont have that. I need a GPU to draw its power from the PCIE x16 slot only.
February 24, 2009 1:33:09 AM

I'm running the Sapphire 4670 in my Shuttle. It is probably the third Sapphire video card I have owned and I give them a thumbs up.
February 24, 2009 1:40:20 AM

I have only ever used 1 Sapphire card it was a old 9250 and will it still runs in my server after almost 4 or 5 years so Sapphire seems to be a good brand. Palit I have never used but its also brand new here in America and I have done a little looking up on this and they seem to be a solid company thats seems pretty good. My personal pick would be MSI I have had a FX5900xt with them that still runs (its older then dirt its self lmao) and a X800XL which still runs (fan did go out but it lasted a week with no fan on it lol) thing I like about MSI graphic cards is the build quality seems to be superb (now only if there motherboards where as good as there video cards :p ). If you dont like the MSI cards Visontek is my current video card manufacture and they seem to be solid will rounded company ( would have gone MSI but at the time I got my card for 100 dollars less then retail price :)  ). Hope this helps your decision making. Just a quick FYI it seems like most if not all the 4670's come with 2 pin power connector for the fan which means the fan will run at 100% all the time unless there is some kinda which may or may not be a issue for you

1 more question when you say your using a 24pin power connector on your power supply do u mean a 20pin connector hooked into a 24pin adepter if so you might have issues running PCI-Express video card because they use the extra 4 pins for power ( I might be wrong never tried running a setup like the above)
February 24, 2009 1:43:43 AM

The fan speed on my Sapphire 4670 is intelligently controlled by the card itself. It is almost silent when not playing games, and still fairly quiet when under load. I barely notice the sound difference between this card and the fanless 8600GT I had previously.
February 24, 2009 1:51:00 AM

steckman said:
The fan speed on my Sapphire 4670 is intelligently controlled by the card itself. It is almost silent when not playing games, and still fairly quiet when under load. I barely notice the sound difference between this card and the fanless 8600GT I had previously.


Does your fan have more then a 2 pin power connector?
February 24, 2009 1:56:38 AM

I didn't have to plug the power in myself so I didn't look at it. But based on the photos at NewEgg and Sapphire's websites for my model it is a 2 pin power connector.
February 24, 2009 2:05:54 AM

hotroderx said:
I have only ever used 1 Sapphire card it was a old 9250 and will it still runs in my server after almost 4 or 5 years so Sapphire seems to be a good brand. Palit I have never used but its also brand new here in America and I have done a little looking up on this and they seem to be a solid company thats seems pretty good. My personal pick would be MSI I have had a FX5900xt with them that still runs (its older then dirt its self lmao) and a X800XL which still runs (fan did go out but it lasted a week with no fan on it lol) thing I like about MSI graphic cards is the build quality seems to be superb (now only if there motherboards where as good as there video cards :p ). If you dont like the MSI cards Visontek is my current video card manufacture and they seem to be solid will rounded company ( would have gone MSI but at the time I got my card for 100 dollars less then retail price :)  ). Hope this helps your decision making. Just a quick FYI it seems like most if not all the 4670's come with 2 pin power connector for the fan which means the fan will run at 100% all the time unless there is some kinda which may or may not be a issue for you

1 more question when you say your using a 24pin power connector on your power supply do u mean a 20pin connector hooked into a 24pin adepter if so you might have issues running PCI-Express video card because they use the extra 4 pins for power ( I might be wrong never tried running a setup like the above)


Thanks for the suggestion, but only palit and sapphire are available to me. I have no problems with noise, but it should run cool. And if what steckman said is true, then its freakin awesome!

As for the Power to the motherboard, I seem to have a direct 24 pin connection, no adapters in between. Those 24 wires come directly out of the psu and go directly into the motherboard. So, maybe it should be able to run the 4670. what say?

I'm already running a 6200TC on my current PSU
February 24, 2009 2:43:20 AM

your_doom said:
Thanks for the suggestion, but only palit and sapphire are available to me. I have no problems with noise, but it should run cool. And if what steckman said is true, then its freakin awesome!

As for the Power to the motherboard, I seem to have a direct 24 pin connection, no adapters in between. Those 24 wires come directly out of the psu and go directly into the motherboard. So, maybe it should be able to run the 4670. what say?

I'm already running a 6200TC on my current PSU



your good then :D . If them are your only to options I would go with palit

http://www.palit.biz/main/vgapro.php?id=975#spec

(assuming thats the card only one listed on there sight as 4670)

vs

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Reason being palit's cooler looks beefier
February 24, 2009 3:44:04 AM

Oh, ok thanks!

Palit will take up 2 of my pci slots....... :( 

But anyways, hope its worth it!
February 24, 2009 5:10:01 AM


I kinda curious to how the card is manging the fan with no data link (3rd pin) I wonder if its possible there a sensor built into the card that adjust the power flow to the fan thus causing it to spin faster or slower depending on voltage but that seems kinda funky way to do it.... don't mean to harp on this just don't want to be someone who gives out mis information :D 

steckman said:
I didn't have to plug the power in myself so I didn't look at it. But based on the photos at NewEgg and Sapphire's websites for my model it is a 2 pin power connector.


Doom just a little background on why i suggested beefer cooler :D 
I know it will take up to slots but the reason I suggest the beefer cooler is I ran into a issue a few months back. I had a friend buy a nice new 8600gt (not a high performance card but still a decent card at the time) it was a XFX and will we installed it and it had a similar cooler to whats on the sapphire will after 5 or 10mins of gaming the card would artifact like crazy so we returned it got the new one same issue except it was 25mins this time. So I started trouble shooting possible issues. Long story short the card was running at 80c or 176f which is blistering for a video card thats low to mid range. I called XFX up and came to find out that yea there was a slight issue with the fans but proper case cooling was need to insure it would run smooth which I red flagged if anything 2x's 120mm fans and 2's 90mm fans in case is adequate (CPU ran 5-10 degrees warmer then room temperature) so at that point we pretty much knew it was defective card issue
February 24, 2009 5:50:54 AM

it realy depends on how 'good' your generic power supply is. The 4670 will run fine on a branded 300w PSU. Most generic power supplies dont quote the actual power you could drain from the power supply.
You could have a look at this article on generic power supplies. Then make your judgement
a c 130 U Graphics card
February 24, 2009 6:39:53 AM

@ HotRoderX
The fan thing isnt like a CPU fan its all done on the card
Mactronix
February 24, 2009 7:50:48 AM

hotroderx said:
Doom just a little background on why i suggested beefer cooler :D 
I know it will take up to slots but the reason I suggest the beefer cooler is I ran into a issue a few months back. I had a friend buy a nice new 8600gt (not a high performance card but still a decent card at the time) it was a XFX and will we installed it and it had a similar cooler to whats on the sapphire will after 5 or 10mins of gaming the card would artifact like crazy so we returned it got the new one same issue except it was 25mins this time. So I started trouble shooting possible issues. Long story short the card was running at 80c or 176f which is blistering for a video card thats low to mid range. I called XFX up and came to find out that yea there was a slight issue with the fans but proper case cooling was need to insure it would run smooth which I red flagged if anything 2x's 120mm fans and 2's 90mm fans in case is adequate (CPU ran 5-10 degrees warmer then room temperature) so at that point we pretty much knew it was defective card issue


Yea, my friend also had this xfx 8600gt a year ago. It idled at 70 degrees! Needless to say, it didnt even last a year. XFX 8600gt is (in)famous for overheating

@cybot
As ive said, mine is a Supercomp (some local company) (read: unbranded) PSU. Will the 4670 work?
February 24, 2009 8:34:26 AM

generic, unbranded ... sounds the same to me, IMO. It is going to work because the 4670 only drains ~59W. All i would be concerned about is the stability.The more you load you put on the power supply the greater the noise level increases in the rectified DC power going into the components in your PC. Noise may result in damage of your hardware. So id advice getting a branded psu from a company with a good reputation.
Read the article i posted on my previous post and hopefully you will understand.
a b U Graphics card
February 24, 2009 11:21:57 AM

^+1 for saving up $ and buying a good PSU.
February 24, 2009 11:51:21 AM

@ cybot
Thanks for the inputs. Yea i read that, and it was informative.

But i cant really buy a new PSU cuz im a 16yr old and i will have to convince my parents for a new PSU (convincing them for a new GPU was hard enough!).

Anyways, its good if some of my hardware blows off, atleast i will have a reason to buy new ones and a new psu :D  XD

BTW will I be more safe with a 4650 than a 4670?
February 24, 2009 3:30:26 PM

your_doom said:
@ cybot
Thanks for the inputs. Yea i read that, and it was informative.

But i cant really buy a new PSU cuz im a 16yr old and i will have to convince my parents for a new PSU (convincing them for a new GPU was hard enough!).

Anyways, its good if some of my hardware blows off, atleast i will have a reason to buy new ones and a new psu :D  XD

BTW will I be more safe with a 4650 than a 4670?


The difference is not much(~10w), therefore the safety of your hardware would not change much. Go for the 4670. the 4670 trails the GF 9600GT by just a few fps.
July 13, 2009 1:47:55 PM

can a Sapphire Radeon HD 4670 512MB GDDR4 work whit a 250w psu?
a c 235 U Graphics card
July 13, 2009 2:27:14 PM

I would not try it
July 13, 2009 3:17:22 PM

ct1615 said:
I would not try it

Why?
a c 130 U Graphics card
July 13, 2009 4:21:24 PM

@ kashi169,

I will give you all the relevant info i can think of, then you can make an informed decision yourself.

While it is not a standard, it is generally recognized that the PCIE slot on a motherboard will supply 75 Watts to the Graphics card. However this may not be the case with a generic PC like yours. It has been known for the makers to work out the loads needed just for the hardware they supply and rate the power supply accordingly, the 4650 would be a safer option as far as power usage would be concerned and would still give you a sizable increase over what you have now, (assuming its what is listed on the specs for your machine) I am adding a link to a review that includes both the 4650 and 4670. techPowerUp HIS HD 4650 iSilence 512 MB Review Page 6 - 32

So really now you need to decide which card suits your set up best, the charts in the link as you will see cover most resolution and settings. It is always advisable with these type of machines to phone and ask customer/tech support if the PC will actually support the card you plan to use, sometimes the motherboard isn't capable of doing so and this is usually fixed with a bios up date, however sometimes it just plain cant and if this is the case a quick phone call will save you money and time.

Anything i haven't covered please ask,

Mactronix
a c 235 U Graphics card
July 13, 2009 6:27:14 PM

kashi169 said:
Why?



although ATI recommends a 400w PSU for the 4670, you can run it on a solid 300w unit with good amps on the 12v. A 250w PSU is really pushing it.
July 14, 2009 1:25:06 AM

maybe the 250w could work if the pc only had one hdd drive, a energy efficient dual core processor, no optical drive or other ad in cards.
But again 250w would be really pushing it, and the system wouldnt last long.
July 14, 2009 8:52:17 AM

yhea i am buying the 4650 512mb gddr 3 today
!