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Ati Radeon HD 4670 vs Nvidia Geforce 9600GT

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Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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February 23, 2009 5:55:26 PM

First of all, hi every1, I'm new to this forum. :bounce: 

I'm currently trying to figure out a new graphics card for my planned CPU..
For the time being these are the specs ive decided on:
Intel Core 2 Duo e8400 @3.0 ghz
2 pieces of 2gb ddr2 ram

For the motherboard, i still haven't gone through the products; but generally it'll support the following:
socket LGA 775 (of course /swt)
DDR2 minimum 2 busses
PCI-E x 16

Right now i'm torn between an nforce based chipset or an intel one.. I heard that having a tandem of Nvidia Processor and GPU lets u overclock em safely using the nforceware (is that the name? i kinda forgot). is this true?

ok -- finally on to the graphics -- using this link (mods, is it okay to use links and references outside of tom's hardware?) as a reference, i quickly browsed through to my targeted price range; between 90 and 110 dollars.
Found 3 cards that fits my criteria (has to be based on a sort of new chipset, has a high ram [below 512mb is ignorable]). They are:

Geforce 9600gt --( the 500 and the 1000 mb variant)-- $93/118 -- 650 core clock 1800 memory clock
and Radeon HD 4670 --1gb ram-- $97 -- 750core/1100memory

at first i liked the radeon one, not much difference in price for more ram than the 9600gt 512 mb, and also a bit more clock. btw, those figures are the factory default, taken from wikipedia.. :whistle: 

of course the next step was to research further.. so i opened another site

the bottomline from comparing these 2 cards in the site is that when running crysis the radeon manages to get 15 lower fps than the geforce (the 512 mb one). BUT, to note, the reviewer used an updated testbed when testing the 9600gt..


my questions are:
1 could the difference in fps come from the different testbeds?
2 are the prices up-to-date or reliable?
3 about forceware; should i try and stick to a nvidia-nvidia processor and gpu for it? is it significant? worth sacrificing if indeed 4670 has more power?
4 would putting a 3.0 ghz processor with this entry-medium level be an overkill ? I had a P4 2.4 ghz put with a 7200 gt (+1.5 gb of ram), and yea can't even run mafia with a descent framerate.. dont' wanna repeat the same mistake. :cry: 
5 will there be a significant difference in performance betwen the 1 gb and 500mb 9600gt? would you say that it's worth the $20 increase?

If u managed to survive reading thru these walls of text, please give me your oppinions. :kaola: 

More about : ati radeon 4670 nvidia geforce 9600gt

a c 130 U Graphics card
February 23, 2009 7:30:08 PM

Well for a start what size screen/ res will you be using and where are you as far as a PSU is concerned. You have the bones of a very respectable PC there and at first glance it would be a shame not to have at least a 4850 or 9800GTX+ in it.
So what we need is your priorities as far as what do you want it to do ? Play games/ watch films or both ?
Are you at the point where the budget is getting tight ?
As far as your questions go
1 Yes
2 Pass im in UK but they look ballpark right
3 It wouldnt concern me i dont see you getting extra performance this way
4 See my coments above, if you want to OC then there are cheaper chips that will (should nothing is a gimme) OC to very similar performance levels.
5 Not unless you plan to run a 24"+ screen

If you can post the info then i can get back to you

Mactronix
February 23, 2009 11:52:20 PM

Thanks Mactronix for answering my questions sharply!

For the time being (until i get a better lcd that is) i'll b using 1024x768 pixels. and actually screen size isn't much of a concern for me, as long as it's not lower than that.
For PSU, i'll b using a standard 380 watts one. Would it be enough? i'm not using anything near powergaming stuff, right?

Priorities are for gaming; Not really aiming to high all the quality settings or use max resolution though (like i said above).

So ur saying that using a 3.0 ghz processor right there is an overkill compared to the GPU? Then i'll prolly lower it down a bit.. as much as i want having a more powerful GPU, above $110 seems a bit too much for me..
Here are my budget plans, these figures are "about these prices, cud b less/more"
$200 --> processor
$100 --> mobo
$50 --> ram
$50 --> hard drive
$100-110 --> graphics
total: $500 well looking at these figures.. think i can squeeze in another 20-30 bucks
soundcard should b onboard; rom drives are gonna be reused from the previous pc

Another question just popped into my head.. will a 100 dollars motherboard b good enough for my plan?

ok in response to your answers:
1 uw.. i forgot to add "kinda significant"-difference (of course the testbeds wud make a difference. The question i meant was: but was it all because of the testbeds?
2 k np u've been a lot of help already
4 after thinking about it.. No overclocking (possibly more fans --> more powerfull psu) + don't wanna risk it

Hmm.. Overall i'm getting more set on my planned spec. just a bit of doubt though, about the overkill processor thingy and about using a 1/2 gb ram GPU instead of a 1gb.

Perhaps one last question, from ur answer of question no. 5, i take it that it won't have a significant difference.. How insignificant do you think it will b?

+ anyone have more input about getting a less-powered processor than i planned b4?
Related resources
a b U Graphics card
February 24, 2009 12:03:20 AM

Put it this way man, on the 1 gb card vs a 512 mb card, you can grab a faster 512 mb card than 1 gb card for less money. If you got say a 4670 1 gb, you would still be better off with say a 512 mb 4830 because the card is faster. You won't completely utilize all the memory until high resolution, but if you don't get a good enough card, your card may not have a quick enough GPU to handle high resolutions though you have more memory. In other words, get at least a 512 mb card, but buy the fastest you can afford.

Standard 380 watt power supply? What is the amperage rating on the 12v+ rail. Because if that reading is too low, and you can't afford a new PSU, your best option would probably be the 4670.
February 24, 2009 12:18:05 AM

thanx for replying ohiou, that clears things up more..

So, i can cut some $20 for something not too affecting.. hmm..

amperage rating..mm it's 18A. can u explain how this affects anything? i'm not too familiar with that area.

anybody to argument on getting a lower-powered CPU? and about the price for a good enough motherboard to match up with the rest..



a b U Graphics card
February 24, 2009 12:29:55 AM

Yeah, with that power supply you are limited I think on what graphics card you can get. May be safe running a 4670 though.

The 12 v+ rail is where your video card gets it's juice. For example, some 400 watt units have 30 amps on the 12V+ rail. What does that mean, it's a much stronger power supply and is more capable of delivering the advertised power.

Many times look at a power supply. Sometimes you might see a really cheap 500 watt power supply list 17 amps as it's 12v+ rating. But if you see say a 400 watt that lists 30 amps, which sounds like a more quality supply to you?

What will happen is sometimes manufacturers will list peak numbers for the wattages. So while you look at wattages to a point, be more concerned with the amperages. But if you want a better video card, and if your main concern is games, I would personally cut down on the processor to something cheaper, pick up a better power supply, and then see what you can afford for a video card.

For example, a decent card on newegg that lately can be found for about 90 bucks is the ATI 4830. To give you an idea, it's about the same performance as a 9800gt which is a step above the 9600gt's you were looking at. But if games are the main concern here, generally a decent midrange dual core processor and a better video card is better than a high end chip and board with a cheaper video card.
February 24, 2009 1:55:42 AM

Thanx for Replying.. Sorry if i still don't get all this after all of your explaining, ive forgotten about those stuff from 9th grade..

and after reading ur post and the Power supply faq on this forum...
Ouwch, i had just bought a $10 power supply on saturday.... Never thought that a PSU is really important to the healthiness of the other components as well..

and-- what's that? i need to spend $100 on a PSU according to the faq?? that swells up my budget plan big time! :fou:  :cry: 

...
... ehemm

that's settled then.. but how much dollars spent is enough? i also heard of "Pure" PSUs, from what i heard, they're tested and guaranteed to give out the written ammount of watts..

Uuh ok, when planning this PC, i wasn't really aware on the balance, since i don't observe IT that much.. and uh.. about the reason me choosing the 3.0 ghz core 2 duo. well oddly enough these figures were on some site:
Core 2 Duo E8200 2.66GHz fan 6MB 1333MHz $179.97
Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0GHz fan 6MB 1333MHz $169.99
if i'm not mistaken they were taken FROM TH. took them last night

Literally get more for less money.. but if it was a typo,, or region specific (america), then i'll go change to the 2.66 ghz :pfff:  and probably means to pump more money in this pc overhaul mission..

u talked about my graphics card should be more powered, hmm that means going to the next milestone -- a 9800 gt 512mb for 128.

I'm a bit confused here, a 9600 uses a n94 chip, whereas a 9800 uses the older n92 .. used by a 8800... why is a 9800 better? was the n94 designed not to be better than its older counterpart?
a b U Graphics card
February 24, 2009 4:49:25 AM

Double the stream processors. 9800gt has 112 If memory serves, and if I'm not mistaken, the 9600gt only has 64. Also, if I'm not mistaken, functionally, a 9800gt and 8800gt are basically the same performance wise.

However, check this out.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

That's an ATI Radeon 4830, 90 bucks but has a 15 dollar mail in rebate making it about the same price as the 4670 after you get the rebate back. This card competes against the 9800gt, and rumor has it that it's a better card in some areas.

Cheapest 9800gt on newegg is close to 110 bucks. So 20 dollar difference for a comparable card, that's where I'd put my money. You could go for the 9600gt, but then on that front, for 10 bucks more you might as well grab the 4830.

But I think I'd pick up the 4830 with the rebate, and use the extra cash on a better power supply. You don't have to spend 100 on a PSU, but count on at least 40-50 for a decent unit. The bad thing about power supplies is if a cheap one goes, you could risk taking other components with it.

If you are looking for cheap, this may do the job.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I'll let some of the other guys comment on the brand, I've never used silverstone myself, but the amperage ratings look decent and some guys seem to have good luck, also look around at the Antec Earthwatts series, some of those are only rated for say 380 or 430 watts, but they are a decent PSU for that rating.

Also look at brands like corsair, ocz, thermaltake has a few decent ones, stay away from rosewill for the most part. But do a google search on whatever you are thinking about buying and see if any reviews are done testing that unit.


Also, if you want to save more money, and if you are interested, AMD has some decent stuff coming out may consider peeking at what they've got as well. The Phenom 2's are supposed to be a fairly decent chip, though if you go with an AM3 board, and ddr3 memory, you may end up spending more. But look around, you may find something you like.
a c 177 U Graphics card
February 24, 2009 5:45:03 AM

Quote:
$200 --> processor
$100 --> mobo
$50 --> ram
$50 --> hard drive
$100-110 --> graphics


If I may, lets change this a bit.

$140 --> processor
$100 --> mobo
$50 --> ram
$50 --> hard drive
$100-110 --> graphics
$60 --> PSU

The answer to the question is the 9600GT is better. The 4670 and the 9600GSO (384MB GSO) are more or less equals. This puts the 9600GT on top. Yes it uses a newer chip, but not all new chips are built for speed. Some are built using a new process, sort of a testing if you will. The GSO has 96SP, I'm not sure how many the GT has. The 8800GT has 112, so the GT has either 96, or something between these numbers. (the 9600GT actually scores very close to the 8800GT, I've even seen overclocked 9600GTs outscoring stock 8800GTs.)

Someone in a different post bought the 500W Antec Earthwatts for $60, so lets start there. (it might have been $69.99, not sure.) I'm sure you can find something on newegg for $60ish. I'd also switch over to the 4830. These can be had for less then $100 on newegg, and you don't need to wait for a rebate. You can also find some that come with a free game, so take a look at them. The 4830 ~ 9800GT, so these are good cards.
a c 130 U Graphics card
February 24, 2009 6:36:15 AM

@ TimothyHK
Looks like you have been getting some decent advice while i have been sleeping.
I really like the look of how 4745454b has it priced, for power supplies look at Corsair, Antec and Seasonic. The PSU meantioned above is $69 and as you are not looking to run a heavy duty gaming card you could get away with a slightly lesser supply. Antec make a 430 Watt unit that carries 30A on the +12v rail which is plenty for your needs. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
The 4830 is a good starting point as well, it will easilly handle your res and will cope well enough if you decide to get a larger screen later.
As overclocking isnt something you fancy then staying with the best CPU you can afford and maybe upgrading something else further down the line may be a consideration, (if you budget does get tight).

Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
February 24, 2009 11:38:22 AM

@OP:

PSU is one of the most over looked part of the PC. The PSU is one of the components that determine how long your PC will live. Cheap PSUs can cause chaos on a PC, from random BSOD/re-starts to killing your CPU/motherboard,etc.
In the long run it WILL hurt you if you get a low quality PSU.

Good PSU manufactures are: PC Power & Cooling, Corsair, Antec, OCZ.

The best of that list are Corsair and PC Power & Cooling. Imo, you can't go wrong with those two manufactures for PSUs. For your needs a Corsair 450VX would do the job just fine. A Corsair 400CX would also work, but the 450VX is more future proof.

+1 for the 4830.
a c 365 U Graphics card
February 24, 2009 12:31:49 PM

I prefer Seasonic PSUs.

Seasonic also manufactures PSUs for Corsair and PC Power & Cooling.
February 26, 2009 2:51:01 AM

Thx for all the amazing replies, guys.. i appreciate u helping me by going through some e-tailer products -- although unfortunately i live in Indonesia (SE Asia), and most of the producers don't sell their stuff here.

@ohiou_grad:
thanx for giving me the heads up on that card with the rebate.. How much does shipping to outside of US cost me? If it were amazon, i think there's an additional $30 fee for shipping..

Hmm.. there's this Gigabyte (anyone ever heard of em?) 500W PSU for $50. Gigabyte are a taiwanese manufacturer, and a respected enough one -- but i don't know when it comes to their PSU products..
Anyone from Asia to help shed the light?

Corsair.. umm too expensive.. to give some comparison, the 400W = $10 more than the aforementioned 500W Gigabyte

PC Power & Cooling - never heard of them. Think they don't sell here
Seasonic - also never heard of em too



Think the last step is to go consult with computer shop owners on the particular manufacturers of each part.. Since we have different manufacturers here.


Fellow members, thanx once again for giving me much needed input -- they really help.

So these are set:
an e8400 Intel Processor @3.0Ghz
an 9800Gt

kk, some more questions have just popped up.. I'm having my eyes set on a Zotac 9800Gt -- cheaper than others + slightly OCed.

My questions are:
There are different manufacturers of the same chipset -- what makes their prices differ? Besides their different OCing, fan, and accessories?
How risky buying from some new player in the market is?
a b U Graphics card
February 26, 2009 10:11:53 AM

Quote:

Corsair.. umm too expensive.. to give some comparison, the 400W = $10 more than the aforementioned 500W Gigabyte

But, it is much more stable than the Gigabyte PSU and it can actually output more than 400W.
February 26, 2009 2:25:07 PM

Thanx shadow for giving me your opp.

so ur saying that their PSU line of products aren't as good as their motherboards and graphics? hmmmmmmmmmm.. but i think im gonna need more than a-bit-more-than-400W.. which means.. more money! gah gah gah

oh well since it can't be helped (lest i want some damaged components from unstable power..) T_T
a b U Graphics card
February 26, 2009 11:11:36 PM

^Yup. Their motherboards are very good. On par or in some cases better than ASUS. But, their PSUs are pretty low quality.

The Corsair 400CX can easily power a 9800GT/GTX.
February 27, 2009 6:08:00 AM

kk.. ive made up my mind.. dun wanna risk things.
so their labeled-as-400W can -- and i quote, "easily" power it? that's great to hear...
then having another dvd rom wouldn't be a problem

and uh shadow, if u have opinions on my other questions, it'll be great to hear em


thx again ^^
a b U Graphics card
February 27, 2009 5:36:29 PM

To give you an idea, I have a 650 watt PSU, the brand is ultra, not a bad PSU, but it's listed for 38 amps. Figure a 400 watt corsair will push 30-32 amps, that should give you an idea how strong they really are.
a b U Graphics card
February 27, 2009 8:19:46 PM

Quote:

There are different manufacturers of the same chipset -- what makes their prices differ? Besides their different OCing, fan, and accessories?
How risky buying from some new player in the market is?

Prices differ based on what quality their components are (ie solid caps,etc) the features (ie RAID,etc) and target market (ie hard core OCer, every day user,etc). I prefer going with things that are known to work well (ie P45-UD3P,etc) compared to a similarly equipped lower priced ASRock board.
a b U Graphics card
February 27, 2009 8:23:03 PM

TimothyHK said:
kk.. ive made up my mind.. dun wanna risk things.
so their labeled-as-400W can -- and i quote, "easily" power it? that's great to hear...
then having another dvd rom wouldn't be a problem

and uh shadow, if u have opinions on my other questions, it'll be great to hear em


thx again ^^

The Corsair 400CX TOTAL POWER output is (130+360+9.6+12.5) 512.5W.

The Gigabyte PSUs are rated with the MAX POWER output. If you are to load the Gigabyte PSU to the advertised power it will not be stable.
August 4, 2010 11:12:43 AM

i had issue with psu's.Through research i found that ratings were very confusing.To find the real answer to psu ratings i had to read the graphs showing power output to temperature rise.. This means that as temp rises the ability to deliver current decreases on the inferior models. so no matter what the label says it's the graph that tells the truth. l.e you can have a 1000w psu and it will fail because on load it cannot deliver a sustained output due to temperature issues. ;) 
!