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Trading Computer Build ( i7 Need Advice!! )

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January 29, 2009 1:05:12 PM

This is going to be short and sweet peeps. I would like a custom built trading computer with the highest quality hardware!!!

I would like a i7 CPU and from what I understand a Raid 5 hard drive configuration is just as fast as a solid state drive with much more storage ( obviously ) now if that is true I would like that to be applied into the build.

I will need this configuration to support 4-6 monitors ( 26 inch monitors ). Now I would love to go to NewEgg and buy the most expensive things, but from doing some research it does not work that way lol.

The above being said all of the hardware must be compatible, but I am not to positive if all the most expensive top of the line best of the best products will be compatible with each other ( That is where you come in )

The only thing we can save money on is the video card(s) ( I think I need more then 1 video card with my 4-6 monitor request ) Everything else must be best of the best top of the line hardware.


Dream away :bounce:  ,

Niko

January 29, 2009 2:31:32 PM

You need 3 video cards with 2 DVI outputs each for 6 monitors . Try something like this:

EVGA 132-BL-E758-A1 LGA 1366 Intel X58
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188039

CORSAIR DOMINATOR 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145224

PC Power & Cooling S75CF 750W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341011&Tpk=S75CF

with an i920, three HD 4670 cards, a couple of WD 640GB drives, and Vista Home Premium 64-bit.
January 29, 2009 2:39:11 PM

With two 4850 X2s you would be able to get up to 8 monitors if I am not mistaken. That would be the way to go for video.
Related resources
January 29, 2009 2:42:59 PM

LOL, eight 26" monitors, where do you even put them? But yeah, why not, especially if you also want to play games.

If you get two HD 4850 X2 cards, I strongly recommend a Corsair 1000HX PSU and an NZXT Tempest.
January 29, 2009 3:04:11 PM

I suppose if he could make do with ONLY 4 26" monitors he could save 300 bones and go with just one 4850X2. :lol: 
January 29, 2009 4:47:26 PM

Is there a need to get such powerful graphics cards for displaying information that isn't very graphics intensive? (Am I correct in assuming that you will be viewing a large array of numbers on all screens?)

The recommended EVGA X58 has 3 pci-e 2.0 slots that run at x16/x8/x8 with three way crossfire. It would seem that running 3-way crossfire with cheaper cards would be more reasonable as prices on graphics cards increase substantially with marginally better performance (you won't even see the performance gains as you'll be dealing with numbers, not games using Directx10).

Instead of getting two 4850x2 in crossfire for a maximum of 8 outputs at $600 spent on video cards, why not buy three 4830's or lower graphics cards for a maximum of 6 display outputs at a cost of $300.

I mean if you want the BEST out there, two 4850 x2's would offer solid GAMING performance and options to add additional monitors, but it would be kind of an overkill in your situation.

(Assuming your monitors aren't running resolutions in excess of 2560x1600, a 4830 will be powerful enough to run them)

Also, two 4850x2's would require more power from your psu than three 4830's.

Can someone verify what I am saying here?


Oh, and also, you will need most likely want to look into a FULL ATX case. Anything smaller and you'll be running into problems with your system overheating and your case not being able to fit all your components (esp if you want RAID 5 and 2 4850x2's as they are huge graphics cards)
January 29, 2009 5:01:40 PM

There are no 26" monitors with resolutions of 2560x1600 or larger AFAIK. If you can find one please provide a link and I'll buy one myself. :)  I think we should expect 1920x1200.

If this machine is for gaming, two HD 4850 X2 cards do make sense.
So would something like GTX 295 + GTX 295 + 8600GT (only 6 monitors though).

Two HD 4850 X2 cards under load do consume more than 3 HD 4830 cards under load, true. That's why I suggested the 1000HX for this scenario, it's a 1KW PSU.

BTW, if you buy three HD 4830 cards for gaming you'll have an unpleasant surprise, most likely. They tend to come without Crossfire bridges. Lots of upset customers because of that :( 
January 30, 2009 6:50:52 AM

Wow great information, thank you. Yea I do not need such a powerful graphics card, reason being is because I will only be running a trading platform and some web browsing ( nothing else ).

As far as the Raid 5 goes, is what I asked correct? And if so what set up would you recommend?

Regarding the memory that you recommended ( corsair ), is there any competition such as kingston?

aberchombie - You got the idea with the graphics cards, I am in no need of a gaming rig lol. That being said my screen res will most likely not even be 1900x1200. I am thinking about 1680x1050 for charting issues. A 1900x1200 is a little squinty on the eyes in my personal opinion.

aberchombie - Also I do not care if this case is 10 feet tall and 8 feet wide, as long as I have no cooling problems. I want this bish to make the arctic look like a summer get away

Let's build this women peeps! :) 


Niko



January 30, 2009 7:48:25 AM

If you are aiming at 1680x1050 suggestion of 3 HD 4670s was a good one. They are about $80 each and very cool and power efficient, they don't even need a power connector. Honestly they are fine even for gaming. I'm sure 3 crossfired could do pretty well with Crysis and any other game around if it mattered to you.
The fastest(nonSSD) drive around is the 640 gig WD black caviar drive but I have no idea about raid 5 so you'll have to wait for someone else to answer that one.
January 30, 2009 8:10:55 AM

You want a super build? Here are my suggestions:

CPU: i7 965 Extreme (overclocked)

Heatsink: Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme 1366RT (w/ Thermalright LGA 1366 Bolt-Thru Kit)

Thermal Paste: IC Diamond 7 Carat

Mobo: Asus P6T6 WS Revolution

RAM: Corsair Dominator DDR3-1866, 3x2GB, with cooling fan

Video Cards: two Sapphire 4850x2 cards for 8 monitors

Case: Coolermaster Stacker series, with 4-in-3 device modules for the HDDs

PSU: PCP&C 1200W

HDD (system): Intel X25-E 32GB SSD, 4 in RAID 0

HDD (data): Seagate Cheetah 15K.6 450GB SAS drives, 4 in RAID 5 (3 + 1 hot spare)

Hardware RAID Controller: Adaptec 2252700-R

Optical: Samsung SH-S223Q w/ Lightscribe

Mouse: Logitech MX Revolution

Keyboard: Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000

Monitor: eight 24" Samsung 245T (S-PVA panel)

OS: Vista Ultimate 64-bit


Feel free to "pare" this down as necessary.
January 30, 2009 8:59:28 AM

Akebono 98 said:
You want a super build? Here are my suggestions:

CPU: i7 965 Extreme (overclocked)

Heatsink: Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme 1366RT (w/ Thermalright LGA 1366 Bolt-Thru Kit)

Thermal Paste: IC Diamond 7 Carat

Mobo: Asus P6T6 WS Revolution

RAM: Corsair Dominator DDR3-1866, 3x2GB, with cooling fan

Video Cards: two Sapphire 4850x2 cards for 8 monitors

Case: Coolermaster Stacker series, with 4-in-3 device modules for the HDDs

PSU: PCP&C 1200W

HDD (system): Intel X25-E 32GB SSD, 4 in RAID 0

HDD (data): Seagate Cheetah 15K.6 450GB SAS drives, 4 in RAID 5 (3 + 1 hot spare)

Hardware RAID Controller: Adaptec 2252700-R

Optical: Samsung SH-S223Q w/ Lightscribe

Mouse: Logitech MX Revolution

Keyboard: Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000

Monitor: eight 24" Samsung 245T (S-PVA panel)

OS: Vista Ultimate 64-bit


Feel free to "pare" this down as necessary.



Yeaaaah! Atta boy, I can for sure manage 8 screens. I just did not know it would be this easy to do it ( Not very custom build computer savvy ) Do you know how compatible all of those parts are?

Any reputable geek near Chicago that wants to make a few bucks lol? I am most definitely down to throw you some cash building this beast.

If I buy all the hardware, what is the going rate to build something like this?


Thanks for all the great input,

Niko
January 30, 2009 12:19:44 PM

LOL, I think we've pushed this dream enough. Back to the real world now, how do we make this build more reasonable...

For example the eight 245T monitors can be replaced with eight Acer monitors of the same size, saving about $2000 (that's two thousand). The 245T is worth it for movies and photos, but won't do much for stock trading that a much cheaper monitor can't do.

The P6T6 WS at $360 is overkill, with the GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD4P at $240 offering all you need here. The $1010 i7 965 is also overkill, when a $300 i7 920 would still do the job exactly the same and still being idle most of the time. It's worth going for the i7 965 only if an i7 920 would be used at 100% most of the time, and I'm (almost) sure it's not the case here.

BTW, this could be done even cheaper with a P5Q-E and DDR2-800 and a Q9550.
January 30, 2009 12:23:53 PM

Here's an even cheaper solution, btw:

K9A2 Platinum, Phenom 9850 quad CPU, four single-slot HD 4670 cards, DDR2-800. You get support for 8 monitors without expensive cards like HD 4850 X2, and I bet the CPU is still fast enough. The total cost is under $800, instead of $1010 (i7 965) + $360 (X58) + $700 (two HD 4850 X2 + HD 4670) + $410 (Corsair Dominator DDR3-1866).
January 30, 2009 1:49:54 PM

Damn! See this is exactly what I am talking about lol. I am completely oblivious to what is needed in my situation. I thought the faster the CPU the faster it runs programs etc etc. Are you telling me I can build this computer for $800 lol? With an i7 CPU, because I do not know what a Phenom 9850 quad core is.... :( 

Basically my initial request is complete overkill and I will no where near use it to it's intended potential? I want something very reliable, but if I can even keep the budget under $1,500 I will just buy 2 set-ups


Niko
January 30, 2009 2:01:44 PM

OK, let's try a simple test. You already have a PC and the trading software, right? Run it, then go to Task Manager and see the CPU usage. Tell us what kind of CPU you have now and how much of it is used.

The Phenom 9850 is a CPU made by AMD. It runs the same programs as the i7 920. If the programs are CPU-intensive (video encoding, Flight Simulator X, various math-intensive applications) then it's slower (by 30% or whatever, depending on benchmark). If the programs are less CPU intensive and all they really do is database queries and painting charts and Internet communications (e..g your trading programs, I think), even the Phenom 9850 would not be used at 100%. The same would be true for a Q6600, Intel's equivalent to that Phenom 9850. That is, the i7 setup would not be faster for that sort of thing, it would just be used at a lower percentage of its maximum abilities.

There are also faster CPUs like Phenom II 940, which also work in 790FX motherboards (i.e. with 4 slots for video cards, i.e. allowing 8 monitors). There's the Q9550 too, but that one is Intel and there are no Intel boards with 4 PCI-E slots AFAIK.

You can't really build it for $800 because the $800 includes only CPU/GPUs/RAM/MB, and you also need case/PSU/HDD/DVD/OS. Still, those are about $400 in total if you're not very picky, for a total of $1200.

Let's get one thing out of the way first: will you play games at all on this machine? If yes, are we talking about intensive things like shooters (Crysis, CoD, etc.), or just Solitaire/Tetris and so on?



January 30, 2009 7:24:40 PM

If you want the fastest disks you can go RAID 10, but you would been a dedicated controller and 4 drives. I don't think you would need anything that fast for what you want to do. The cost for someone to build the machine would depend on whether you want support after it is built. The building is usually the fun part, the support, not so much.
January 30, 2009 7:25:49 PM

Aevm is steering you in the right direction.
January 31, 2009 2:54:23 AM

There is one company specialized in multi display computerbuild. They also offer customization for the build they have check on Google. Because for multi display there is more then just multiple videocard with multiple output. did you want to have 1 image on all display your principal display split in 8 , on what screen did you want to display it. I think 6 to 8 display are not only for gaming :) 
Anonymous
January 31, 2009 2:30:02 PM

Couple of further points

1. Fastest RAID is 0 not 10, and whether you need it or not is dependent on multiple factors
A. Are you more interested in application load time or are you saving data constantly
B. Are you interested in raw speed or speed and safety (as in not losing your data)
C. You dont need a seperate RAID card, most decent MOBO's have ICH10R controllers

2. Besides just looking at the CPU you need to
A. Stop all other applications so that when you look at the task manager CPU core display everything shows zero or very minimal

B. Now get your trading program running at full load, does 1 CPU core show activity or all of them?

C. If you are only loading one CPU then core count wont matter much (your trading platform isnt multi-threaded very well)

D. During step B you also need to look at page file activity and memory usage

3. Video - Yeah you dont need high end, just compatible

4. Is you application written for 32 or 64 bit, probably 32 bit, but if they have a 64 bit option thats good, just another piece of the puzzle

If your system uses max cores on whatever you have now then an i7 will most likely increase the performance, but again there are a lot of variables

If you want to pass your e-mail to me I can help you out via a webex session (take a look at your system real time) probably not until monday though.
January 31, 2009 11:39:11 PM

Thanks to aevm for cutting me down there. And no, I was not trying to take you--just remember not to say "dream away" next time... What I've given you is a template for the gold standard. We can optimize quite a bit, of course.

You may need the highest available processing power, depending on what type of financial and / or mathematical models you run, so the i7 965 may not be overkill at all. In fact, it may be right on, but it depends. Sometimes, it's the burst speed that counts in trading, not just the steady CPU usage.

Part of me thought that this would be a conceptual template from which you would pare back (hence my final comment)--I just didn't expect you to say "mine" so quickly...
February 1, 2009 8:24:25 AM

aevm said:
OK, let's try a simple test. You already have a PC and the trading software, right? Run it, then go to Task Manager and see the CPU usage. Tell us what kind of CPU you have now and how much of it is used.

The Phenom 9850 is a CPU made by AMD. It runs the same programs as the i7 920. If the programs are CPU-intensive (video encoding, Flight Simulator X, various math-intensive applications) then it's slower (by 30% or whatever, depending on benchmark). If the programs are less CPU intensive and all they really do is database queries and painting charts and Internet communications (e..g your trading programs, I think), even the Phenom 9850 would not be used at 100%. The same would be true for a Q6600, Intel's equivalent to that Phenom 9850. That is, the i7 setup would not be faster for that sort of thing, it would just be used at a lower percentage of its maximum abilities.

There are also faster CPUs like Phenom II 940, which also work in 790FX motherboards (i.e. with 4 slots for video cards, i.e. allowing 8 monitors). There's the Q9550 too, but that one is Intel and there are no Intel boards with 4 PCI-E slots AFAIK.

You can't really build it for $800 because the $800 includes only CPU/GPUs/RAM/MB, and you also need case/PSU/HDD/DVD/OS. Still, those are about $400 in total if you're not very picky, for a total of $1200.

Let's get one thing out of the way first: will you play games at all on this machine? If yes, are we talking about intensive things like shooters (Crysis, CoD, etc.), or just Solitaire/Tetris and so on?



Wow thank you for your time, first off. Second I will be playing zero games what so ever. I doubt I will even play solitaire.

As for these tests, I have no idea how to run them. I tried searching ways to clear CPU usage, but obviously came up unsuccessful.

Right now this computer is a little over a year old with the intel Q6700 CPU and 4 gig's of ram. I personally would rather go with Intel over AMD, based on by the reviews I have just read.

I would most definitely assume that my platform ( trading software ) is getting a lot of online data/influence.

The decision has been made about the screens - I want 8 ( eight ), but I was always under the impression that the more screens you have the slower the comp runs? ( This is all obviously speculation as I have never really understood computers to the fullest )


I would love to get this test going if someone can link me to a " how to " thread relating to " ways I can clear my CPU usage " or something along those lines...



Thank you,

Niko
February 1, 2009 8:36:46 AM

Quote:
Couple of further points

1. Fastest RAID is 0 not 10, and whether you need it or not is dependent on multiple factors
A. Are you more interested in application load time or are you saving data constantly
B. Are you interested in raw speed or speed and safety (as in not losing your data)
C. You dont need a seperate RAID card, most decent MOBO's have ICH10R controllers

2. Besides just looking at the CPU you need to
A. Stop all other applications so that when you look at the task manager CPU core display everything shows zero or very minimal

B. Now get your trading program running at full load, does 1 CPU core show activity or all of them?

C. If you are only loading one CPU then core count wont matter much (your trading platform isnt multi-threaded very well)

D. During step B you also need to look at page file activity and memory usage

3. Video - Yeah you dont need high end, just compatible

4. Is you application written for 32 or 64 bit, probably 32 bit, but if they have a 64 bit option thats good, just another piece of the puzzle

If your system uses max cores on whatever you have now then an i7 will most likely increase the performance, but again there are a lot of variables

If you want to pass your e-mail to me I can help you out via a webex session (take a look at your system real time) probably not until monday though.



1. A. Pretty much both. I need it to load fast but I am not sure if I need it SAVING data as much because there really is nothing to save unless I want to save my positions etc etc, but that I can do myself manually.

B. SAFTEY!!!! I would like speed, but saftey is key issue here I can not have this rig breaking down, must be very reliable.

2. I do not know how to do that, but I am going to find out here as soon as I get a link to a " how to " thread. Also I sent you my e-mail through PM.

- Edit -

I believe the software is made for 64 bit, it just came out a couple 2-3 months ago.


Thank you,

Niko
February 3, 2009 1:03:06 PM

Up - We are almost there :) 
February 4, 2009 10:33:39 AM

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp! lol
February 4, 2009 12:56:44 PM

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp with what exactly? If you ask a question we'll try to answer it.

How to check CPU usage: type Ctrl-Alt-Del, click Task Manager, click Performance. There will be a chart in there (or 2 charts or 4 charts, depending on CPU type and settings). Info about available memory is also shown on that screen (at least on XP, not sure about Vista right now).

Safety, as in the computer not crashing: if you buy reliable parts, don't skimp on the power supply, don't overclock, and keep the room temperature reasonable, it shouldn't be that hard.

You may need an uninterruptible power supply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninterruptible_power_supply
if electricity is flaky in your area and the occasional reboot is unacceptable, but most people do fine without one.

Anyway, since you're not into games at all, I'd abandon the HD 4850 X2 * 2 solution because it's $600 and consumes a lot of electricity. The whole i7/x58/ddr3 is way overkill here IMO.

Let me try to put a (much cheaper) list together. It will have to be based on AMD because I don't know any Intel motherboards with slots for 4 video cards.
February 4, 2009 1:12:40 PM

So, let's take it logically. 8 monitors, (without using cards like HD 4850 X2 which support 4 monitors), that means you need four regular cards (each supporting two monitors). They need to be single-slot because four dual-slot cards will be very hard to fit in a normal case. They need to be powerful enough to handle 2*1920x1200 in 2D mode, but don't need to be gaming cards.

Sapphire HD 4670 single slot $80*4
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102792

Now we need to find a motherboard that can accept 4 PCI-E cards. That's a feature found in AMD's 790FX chipset, and TBH I have no idea if you can find it anywhere else. The best 790FX at Newegg that actually supports AMD's best CPUs is this:

ASUS M3A79-T Deluxe AM2+/AM2 AMD 790FX $189
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131339

Since this MB supports the Phenom II 940, get that CPU. It's AMD's best ever.

AMD Phenom II X4 940 Deneb 3.0GHz AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Black Edition $230
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471

RAM: get two sets of this for a total of 8 GB:

G.SKILL PI Black 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 $55 *2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231209&Tpk=G.Skill%20Pi%20Black%20DDR2-800

You do not need an aftermarket CPU cooler.

You need a large case with good cooling, like this for example:
COOLER MASTER HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP Black Steel ATX Full Tower $150
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160&Tpk=Coolermaster%20haf

February 4, 2009 1:32:20 PM

You need a 64-bit operating system now. That's important because otherwise you'd only get to see 2 GB of RAM or something like that. All those video cards need address space for their own RAM and with a 32-bit OS the address spaces is limited.

The logical choice is Vista 64-bit OEM, either Home Premium or Ultimate. The difference is that Ultimate costs more and adds extra features for backup/fax/administration/etc IIRC. If you want to investigate the differences and maybe buy the Ultimate, go ahead. Or you can get the Home Premium and buy any extra features you need separately, as programs made by Microsoft or by others.
Vista Home Premium 64-bit OEM $100
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116488

Hard drive(s). I like the Western Digital 640GB most these days. It's one of the fastest drives and much cheaper per GB than the few drives that do beat it (e.g. Velociraptors).

WD6401AALS $70
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319&Tpk=wd6401aals

You could get two of these and set them up in a RAID 1, for example, so that when a drive fails you still have all your data mirrored on the other.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID
Or just buy two of them and copy files manually to make backups, whenever a file is important and needs extra protection. You should also make backups on DVD+R disks, since that's the only way to make backups that can't be defeated by a virus.
(The virus can infect a second HDD, an external HDD, a USB flash drive, a DVD-RW, but it can't write to a DVD+R.)

PSU: since reliability is a major factor here, you have only two choices IMO. PC Power & Cooling and Corsair. OK, there are a few more manufacturers I trust, but these are the best these days IMO. For a setup like yours, a 750W PSU sounds about right. Any of these 3 would do all right here:

Corsair 750TX ($100), PC P&C S75QB ($100), PC P&C S75CF ($90)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703009
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341011



February 4, 2009 3:06:50 PM

Ok well I was hoping for something a little more high end. Here is what I am thinking, would you just fill in the blanks such as video cards and a few misc items I know I am missing ( heatsink whatever )....

If you could also overview the hardware and let me know if it is compatible or any other suggestions etc etc..

http://secure.newegg.com/Shopping/ShoppingCart.aspx?Sub...
February 4, 2009 3:19:52 PM

You can use the X2 6400+ instead of the Phenom II 940 in the setup I listed for you, not a problem. However, the Phenom II 940 is the high-end CPU there, not the X2 6400+. It even costs 3 times more, in fact.

Mind you, the X2 6400+ is pretty good, and will compete well with the Phenom if you only have one application running and that application doesn't do multithreading. However, if you use multithreaded software or run multiple things in parallel, then Phenom will do better. It's rather hard to say, since I have no idea what your trading software does. Do you run one instance or multiple instances? That is, to fill 8 monitors, do you start the same application 8 times, or just once?
February 5, 2009 4:24:03 AM

aevm et al.,

Seriously, thanks so much for your time. Your advice is very much appreciated from more than just one. As a trader, I'm in a similar situation as Niko because none of the retail box makers build a decent system so we're having to resort to building our own. Although I don't need to support 8 displays (information overload), [btw, Niko, how do you plan to execute a trade if you're sitting 10 feet away from your desk and suffering death by analysis? :D  ] maybe 4, we're looking for something more on the high end with regard to RAM, CPU, and video because speed is everything--just like in gaming I imagine--even if it isn't as graphic intense. Having an edge in terms of hardware is the easiest part of a solid trading plan and is 100% under a person's control. Trading with outdated technology, as John Carter would say, "...would be like entering the Daytona 500 with a Winnebago."

Now, value does play a part but we'll still want to be in the top tier in terms of speed/execution of the things we can control--our trading system. Personally, I plan to build two systems: One will be dedicated to running trading software and kept squeeky clean like by not surfing the Internet. And the other to do everything else like play CivIV, PokerStars, or surf pr0n. I'd love to build these two units with similar specifications and hope they last me a while.

Please indulge me in a couple of questions:
1) Is it possible to build a comperable or better performing system than the one which is spec'd and valued here? Falcon F-41X Ultimate Trading System
2) Can the suggested build be swapped with quieter components without sacrificing performance?
3) When choosing a power supply, how does one know if 600W or 800W or even 1200W is necessary?
3) Is there any major hardware upgrades on the horizon? I mean, not so I can buy the biggest and baddest, but rather to save some money on some major price drops on current tech.
February 5, 2009 11:38:46 AM

The Vix said:
aevm et al.,

Seriously, thanks so much for your time. Your advice is very much appreciated from more than just one. As a trader, I'm in a similar situation as Niko because none of the retail box makers build a decent system so we're having to resort to building our own. Although I don't need to support 8 displays (information overload), [btw, Niko, how do you plan to execute a trade if you're sitting 10 feet away from your desk and suffering death by analysis? :D  ] maybe 4, we're looking for something more on the high end with regard to RAM, CPU, and video because speed is everything--just like in gaming I imagine--even if it isn't as graphic intense. Having an edge in terms of hardware is the easiest part of a solid trading plan and is 100% under a person's control. Trading with outdated technology, as John Carter would say, "...would be like entering the Daytona 500 with a Winnebago."

Now, value does play a part but we'll still want to be in the top tier in terms of speed/execution of the things we can control--our trading system. Personally, I plan to build two systems: One will be dedicated to running trading software and kept squeeky clean like by not surfing the Internet. And the other to do everything else like play CivIV, PokerStars, or surf pr0n. I'd love to build these two units with similar specifications and hope they last me a while.

Please indulge me in a couple of questions:
1) Is it possible to build a comperable or better performing system than the one which is spec'd and valued here? Falcon F-41X Ultimate Trading System
2) Can the suggested build be swapped with quieter components without sacrificing performance?
3) When choosing a power supply, how does one know if 600W or 800W or even 1200W is necessary?
3) Is there any major hardware upgrades on the horizon? I mean, not so I can buy the biggest and baddest, but rather to save some money on some major price drops on current tech.


DON'T FALL FOR THAT TRAP!!! www.tradingcomputers.com is the biggest scam ever! They overprice this sh*t out of their computers and tell you that you get a " secret tune ", seriously! For the price of that you can build a super computer, no lie.

How am I going to fit 8 screens you ask? I have a big ass Brestar U-Shape desk lol. At least now I know I am not the only one looking for something better then all the overpriced garbage these defunct companies are trying to spoon feed us....

Better to fix the roof when the sun is shining not after the storm... So get a little over-kill here and there to make sure you will have no reliability issues - In my case I am going to be over-killing the hell out of my rig in a way that I know it will be reliable with compatible long lasting hardware.


BTW - www.tradingcomputers.com laptops are based off a lower end Clevo M860TU which is the same thing as a Sager NP8660, but those have DDR3 better CPU, GPU, etc etc etc for a cheaper price. I called them and that was when the tech said, " yea but we do special things to ours " then I asked him " really? " followed by a quick " what? " then he replied with " now if I told you that - it woulden't be a secret no more now would it? "- I laughed, wished him good luck with his scam, and hung up.... So stay as far away from them as possible, complete garbage. Not to mention how startled he got when I enlightened him about the Sager NP8660 then informed him that the Clevo M860TU model is the same thing!

N.
February 5, 2009 12:52:18 PM

The Vix said:

Now, value does play a part but we'll still want to be in the top tier in terms of speed/execution of the things we can control--our trading system. Personally, I plan to build two systems: One will be dedicated to running trading software and kept squeeky clean like by not surfing the Internet. And the other to do everything else like play CivIV, PokerStars, or surf pr0n. I'd love to build these two units with similar specifications and hope they last me a while.

Please indulge me in a couple of questions:
1) Is it possible to build a comperable or better performing system than the one which is spec'd and valued here? Falcon F-41X Ultimate Trading System
2) Can the suggested build be swapped with quieter components without sacrificing performance?
3) When choosing a power supply, how does one know if 600W or 800W or even 1200W is necessary?
3) Is there any major hardware upgrades on the horizon? I mean, not so I can buy the biggest and baddest, but rather to save some money on some major price drops on current tech.


First of all, why build two systems with similar specifications if their requirements are vastly different. It would make more sense to optimize each system according to what it's supposed to do. The trading system can use cheap graphics cards ("cheap", as in $80 or close) and a quad-core CPU (Q9550 for example) and 8 GB of RAM. The gaming system on the other hand would do better with a good graphics card (let's say $200 or higher) and a higher-clocked dual-core CPU (E8500, etc.) and doesn't need more than 4 GB of RAM.


February 5, 2009 1:07:33 PM

OK, I looked at that Falcon system. US$3400 buys you this:
- unspecified dual-core Intel CPU at 4.15GHz. I'm guessing E8600. $270
- 4GB DDR3 $50 (I'm writing $50 because if you build your own you'd pay $50 for 4GB of DDR2, you wouldn't get DDR3)
- 250 GB HDD - yuck, $50
- DVD-RW $25
- XP Pro SP 3 OEM $140 at Newegg
- unspecified motherboard, but it has slots for 2 video cards since it supports 4 monitors $110 (GA-EP45-UD3P, P5Q pro, if lucky)
- unspecified video cards, but a safe guess is it has two cheap ones $80*2
- unspecified PSU. Safe to assume it's a smallish one, maybe 500W $60
- unspecified case, similar to NZXT Tempest $100
- unspecified cooler, but it must be good if it does 4.15GHz $60

Total, if you built it yourself: 270+50+50+25+140+110+160+60+100+60=1025

Maybe I'm too harsh with them and in fact they used top-quality things like $300 MB and $300 PSU and so on, but I doubt it. They'd be imbeciles to do it, from a business point of view. Their job is to minimize cost, obviously. So, anyway, you can get something similar, working at 3.33 Ghz (E8600 stock) for a third of the price. Overclocking from 3.33 to 4.15 is nice, but it may be completely useless too if those trading apps are in fact limited by the Internet connection or the speed of the disk where the database is located. It shouldn't cost $2000 more just because it's overclocked, anyway.

So, for a trading PC, get yourself something like this:
Q9550
GA-EP45-UD3P
2* HD 4670
650TX
Xigmatek Dark Knight
NZXT Tempest
SH-S223F
G.Skill PI Black DDR2-800 4GB - two sets
WD6401AALS
XP Pro SP3

For the gaming PC:
E8500
GA-EP45-UD3P
2* HD 4870 1GB or a HD 4870 X2 or even a GTX 295
750TX or PC Power & Cooling S75CF
Xigmatek Dark Knight
NZXT Tempest or RC-690 or Antec 900
SH-S223F
G.Skill PI Black DDR2-800 4GB
WD6401AALS
Vista Home Premium 64-bit





February 5, 2009 1:34:41 PM

Alienware is legit.

Whether the guy selling the PC on eBay is legit or no, I have no idea. He may be a scammer just using their name to get your cash and run.

I can build the exact same system for about $2300. They charge $3500 to put it together, overclock, test, install Windows, ship, offer warranty (I hope). It's a bit too much IMO, but if you have the money and need those services, and you trust the guy, then it may be a good deal.

Now, if you don't need it to be exactly like that, and you can live with a 20% slower CPU and air cooling, the whole thing can be done with Newegg parts for about $1500 or $1700.
February 5, 2009 5:26:44 PM

I see. Well what about something like this - Which laptop the Sager NP8660 or the Sager NP2096. Then I just found something called a matrox triplehead2go which will allow an addition 3 external screens to be added. Specs on the laptops found here http://www.sagernotebook.com/category_browse.php?cid=&l...

The above being said - I can buy either of those 2 laptops ( which ever you recommend ) and use the matrox triplehead2go for the 3 new 22inch 1680x1050 I buy.... How does that sound? Will either of those laptops be able to handle the matrox triplehead2go / 3 additional 1680x1050 monitors

Now obviously those laptops will be nearly maxed out on specs... Intel P9600, 4 gigs, etc etc
February 5, 2009 5:27:02 PM

I see. Well what about something like this - Which laptop the Sager NP8660 or the Sager NP2096. Then I just found something called a matrox triplehead2go which will allow an addition 3 external screens to be added. Specs on the laptops found here http://www.sagernotebook.com/category_browse.php?cid=&l...

The above being said - I can buy either of those 2 laptops ( which ever you recommend ) and use the matrox triplehead2go for the 3 new 22inch 1680x1050 I buy.... How does that sound? Will either of those laptops be able to handle the matrox triplehead2go / 3 additional 1680x1050 monitors

Now obviously those laptops will be nearly maxed out on specs... Intel P9600, 4 gigs, etc etc
February 6, 2009 11:52:59 AM

123urpked said:
pwn, if you really want a great laptop (kind of expensive, but awesome!) check out www.mtechlaptops.com



Thank you but most of their comps are based off of the Clevo which is an ODM. Their M860TU is actually a Clevo M860TU which is actually a Sager NP8660 ( $1,400 ). So they are taking products from ODM(s) and just reselling them, but in this case they are trying to pull a www.tradingcomputers.com and sell them for double the amount....

Thanks anyway, but like I said, just another stupid defunct business thinking they are going to " make it big " selling the same product for double the price with a re-branded name


Niko
February 12, 2009 7:12:17 AM

aevm said:


So, for a trading PC, get yourself something like this:
Q9550
GA-EP45-UD3P
2* HD 4670
650TX
Xigmatek Dark Knight
NZXT Tempest
SH-S223F
G.Skill PI Black DDR2-800 4GB - two sets
WD6401AALS
XP Pro SP3

For the gaming PC:
E8500
GA-EP45-UD3P
2* HD 4870 1GB or a HD 4870 X2 or even a GTX 295
750TX or PC Power & Cooling S75CF
Xigmatek Dark Knight
NZXT Tempest or RC-690 or Antec 900
SH-S223F
G.Skill PI Black DDR2-800 4GB
WD6401AALS
Vista Home Premium 64-bit


Bravo aevm! Thanks so much. You are worth every dollar. And probably more.

Finally had time to look into this and just spent the past few hours educating myself and shopping around a bit. These suggestions are fantastic and I'll never buy another retail box again.

Would you happen to know if there's truly a difference between, say, a Sapphire Radeon HD 4870 Video Card - 1GB GDDR5 and a XFX Radeon HD 4870 Video Card - 1GB GDDR5? I don't understand what causes the price point difference when these seem to spec. out the same.

Also, what would you recommend for a decent set of speakers and for displays? And, heck, why not? How about a keyboard and mouse suggestion while we're at it? lol.

Off topic: Where's the best opportunity to sell my current hardware in attempts to help offset the costs of my new boxes? Again, thanks for your time, aevm. I know you're busy and we all really appreciate your expertise.

Btw, I took a picture of Niko's trading setup in case you're curious:

February 24, 2010 3:08:43 PM

Hi
Niko,

What system did you end up with? How is it working out for you? I'm going through the same process you have gone through and would likje to know if you can share your experience.

Thanks,

th
March 4, 2010 1:41:48 PM

I stumbled across here. Also searchinng for an I7 trading computer with a 3 monitor array. I run an intense backtesting program. I don't have time to build myself. Who out there builds a good multi-monitor system at a good price?
March 4, 2010 2:05:06 PM

geckojb said:
I stumbled across here. Also searchinng for an I7 trading computer with a 3 monitor array. I run an intense backtesting program. I don't have time to build myself. Who out there builds a good multi-monitor system at a good price?


Hi there,

Try Falcon Systems. I'm moving forward with my own build, but they do top of the line work. It will cost you ... wish you good trading. Last two days have been fenomenal on TF
December 26, 2010 5:32:29 PM

Or Just go to EZ Trading Computers and Eddie Z. will speck out what you need, build it, ship it, & and Give you a 3 Year warranty btw he happens to be a trader too so he knows what you need lol. I got a system from him with support for 8 monitors i only use 6 but man is this thing fast! Using 6 samsung bx2440 bought from circuit city online.

http://eztradingcomputers.com/ for info or http://tradingcomputersnow.com/ for his store site.

monitors here http://www.circuitcity.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...

January 16, 2011 10:06:38 PM

1 - Radeon 5870 eye-finity edition with 6, count -em, 6 mini-display ports. Monitor problem solved.
July 5, 2011 12:38:34 PM

geckojb said:
I stumbled across here. Also searchinng for an I7 trading computer with a 3 monitor array. I run an intense backtesting program. I don't have time to build myself. Who out there builds a good multi-monitor system at a good price?


Hi,

I would also recommend for the Eddie Z. I got mine from http://tradingcomputersnow.com with full tech support and warranty. Using it and it is working great.

Have a happy working!

Regards,
Thomas
July 6, 2012 12:43:42 AM

holy crap i have one for you thats 6000 pounds right?

12x 24" view sonic
http://www.amazon.com/Viewsonic-VX2450WM-LED-23-6-Inch-...

=2160$ =811.19 pounds

GPU= 2x gtx 690 $1,199.99 each
http://www.amazon.com/EVGA-Signature-mDisplayPort-Graph...

CPU= 980x $1151.87
http://www.amazon.com/Intel-i7-980X-Extreme-Edition-Pro...

PSU= 1200w corsair gold plus $267.98
http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Professional-1200-Watt-Ce...

Memory= 2x caviar black 2tb $192.98 each
http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Caviar-Internal-D...
1x120gb ssd 119.99
http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-2-5-Inch-Solid-State-CT12...

MOBO= Gigabyte G1. Sniper around $449.95
http://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-Sniper-Intel-Core-Mother...

RAM= 6x4GB $149.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

optical= blueray SH-B123L/BSBP $79.99
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-12XReadable-DVD-Writable-...
IHAS424-98 24.99
http://www.amazon.com/Lite-On-LightScribe-Layer-Drive-I...

Case= Thermaltake Level 10 GT Snow addition $289.99
http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Level-Edition-Gaming-...

CPU cooler= H100 $102.74
http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Extreme-Performance-Liqui...

Keyboard/Mouse= G19 $148.33
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Programmable-Gaming-Keyb...
Cyborg R.A.T.9 $119.99
http://www.amazon.com/Cyborg-T-7-Gaming-Mouse-MAC/dp/B0...

total price

7841.66$
5051.6 pounds

my god that is a NICE Computer :p  have fun!!!
July 9, 2012 9:01:09 AM

This topic has been closed by Proximon
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