Suggest Memory

[b_digital]

Hi All,

I've decided to upgrade my mobo (GA-EP-45-UD3LR) and processor (Q8400).

Can anyone suggest which memory would be best for my HTPC setup?

I do alot of video converting, budget would be around $100. I'm currently running 2GB Corsair 6400. The mobo can support 1366,1066,800,667.

I do plan to overclock the Q8400.

I would prefer 8GB or 4GB which ever one is best. I just dont know which company i should go with(maybe G.Skill or OCZ?).

I want reliability and performance.

My current index score for the corsair memory is 5.4, I want it to go up to 6 or 7 (i know wishful thinking) if its possible.


Thanks all for your input.

 

[Crashman]

Hi All,

I've decided to upgrade my mobo (GA-EP-45-UD3LR) and processor (Q8400).

Can anyone suggest which memory would be best for my HTPC setup?

I do alot of video converting, budget would be around $100. I'm currently running 2GB Corsair 6400. The mobo can support 1366,1066,800,667.

I do plan to overclock the Q8400.

I would prefer 8GB or 4GB which ever one is best. I just dont know which company i should go with(maybe G.Skill or OCZ?).

I want reliability and performance.

My current index score for the corsair memory is 5.4, I want it to go up to 6 or 7 (i know wishful thinking) if its possible.


Thanks all for your input.

For DDR2, the fastest memory you can buy is DDR2-800 (PC2-6400). Everything else, such as DDR2-1066, is actually DDR2-800 that's been rated at an overclock setting. You're looking for stability, which means you're probably not looking to play around with memory overclocking.

 

[ausch30]

+1^
In addition to that statement, all the benchmarks I've seen show very little performance difference between DDR2 800 and DDR2 1066. lower timings increases performance much more than faster speeds do. You should be looking for DDR2 800 at the lowest timings and at the JEDEC standard 1.8v.

Something like this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146731

 

[MikeJRamsey]

For DDR2, the fastest memory you can buy is DDR2-800 (PC2-6400). Everything else, such as DDR2-1066, is actually DDR2-800 that's been rated at an overclock setting. You're looking for stability, which means you're probably not looking to play around with memory overclocking.

Crashman,
I have been curious about that. It's the external data bus clock rate that drives the actual speed. If you drove a DDR2 chip at the old DDR clock rate it wouldn't perform any faster and might be slower. You seem to be saying that if you drove DDR2-1066 at the DDR2-800 clock rate it wouldn't run any faster. I think that is right.

Name       Memory clock    Cycle time    I/O Bus clock    Data xfers/s    Peak xfer MB/s
DDR2-800    200 MHz        5 ns          400 MHz          800 Million        6400 
DDR2-1066    266 MHz        3.75 ns       533 MHz           1066 Million        8533

The DIMMs should have Serial Presence Detect capability so that the system's BIOS has the option of setting the external data bus clock rate to fit the available memory speed. In theory at least, the system could adjust itself to handle DDR2-1066's higher clock rate. Are you saying that in practice this doesn't happen unless you explicitly overclock it?

 

[MikeJRamsey]

+1^
In addition to that statement, all the benchmarks I've seen show very little performance difference between DDR2 800 and DDR2 1066. lower timings increases performance much more than faster speeds do. You should be looking for DDR2 800 at the lowest timings and at the JEDEC standard 1.8v.

Something like this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146731

ausch30,
How would a DDR2-800 at the 4-4-4 timing compare to a DDR2-1066 at the 6-6-6 timing? What is the formula that gives you the transfer rate?

 

[ausch30]

Crashman,

The DIMMs should have Serial Presence Detect capability so that the system's BIOS has the option of setting the external data bus clock rate to fit the available memory speed. In theory at least, the system could adjust itself to handle DDR2-1066's higher clock rate. Are you saying that in practice this doesn't happen unless you explicitly overclock it?

The thing is that JEDEC sets the memory standards and their standard voltage for DDR2 is 1.8v. Motherboards will read the SPD chip and set the memory to run at the correct JEDEC speed. All the settings at voltages above 1.8v are EPP (Enhanced Performance Profiles) settings and are guaranteed by the manufacturer to work with that memory but motherboards don't default to those higher settings.

 

[ausch30]

ausch30,
How would a DDR2-800 at the 4-4-4 timing compare to a DDR2-1066 at the 6-6-6 timing? What is the formula that gives you the transfer rate?

I'm unsure of the formula but you're also talking about theoretical transfer rates which often differs greatly from real world performance (which is the reason I'm not a fan of synthetic benchmarks). In real world performance what you have listed would usually perform virtually identically but the actual performance would be determined by several factors including memory controller, FSB speed, multiplier or whatever method your system uses for communication between the CPU and memory.

 

[MikeJRamsey]

The thing is that JEDEC sets the memory standards and their standard voltage for DDR2 is 1.8v. Motherboards will read the SPD chip and set the memory to run at the correct JEDEC speed. All the settings at voltages above 1.8v are EPP (Enhanced Performance Profiles) settings and are guaranteed by the manufacturer to work with that memory but motherboards don't default to those higher settings.

Ah, to get the increased speed it is also required that you up the pressure on those electrons. I am going to look into this some more; just curious.

 

[Crashman]

Crashman,
I have been curious about that. It's the external data bus clock rate that drives the actual speed. If you drove a DDR2 chip at the old DDR clock rate it wouldn't perform any faster and might be slower. You seem to be saying that if you drove DDR2-1066 at the DDR2-800 clock rate it wouldn't run any faster. I think that is right.

Name       Memory clock    Cycle time    I/O Bus clock    Data xfers/s    Peak xfer MB/s
DDR2-800    200 MHz        5 ns          400 MHz          800 Million        6400 
DDR2-1066    266 MHz        3.75 ns       533 MHz           1066 Million        8533

The DIMMs should have Serial Presence Detect capability so that the system's BIOS has the option of setting the external data bus clock rate to fit the available memory speed. In theory at least, the system could adjust itself to handle DDR2-1066's higher clock rate. Are you saying that in practice this doesn't happen unless you explicitly overclock it?

I'm saying that chips are rated at a certain cycle time, and that DDR2-1066 uses chips rated by the manufacturer at DDR2-800. If you have to crank up the voltage, it's obvious you're overclocking. If the module assembler tells you to crank up the voltage, its obvious they're telling you how to overclock.

 

[MikeJRamsey]

I'm saying that chips are rated at a certain cycle time, and that DDR2-1066 uses chips rated by the manufacturer at DDR2-800. If you have to crank up the voltage, it's obvious you're overclocking. If the module assembler tells you to crank up the voltage, its obvious they're telling you how to overclock.

I went looking and found this:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21332718-DDR2800-vs-DDR21066

To use DDR2-1066 I guess you are overclocking. Thank you for the education.

 

[ausch30]

I went looking and found this:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21332718-DDR2800-vs-DDR21066

To use DDR2-1066 I guess you are overclocking. Thank you for the education.

That is not entirely true. Originally DDR2 was 400, 533, 667 and 800. About a year and a half ago they added 1066 but all of them are at 1.8v. If you purchase RAM that lists it's speed at 1066 at, say, 2.1v then it's simply DDR2 800 that is guaranteed by the manufacturer to work at those increased settings.

This is an example of actual DDR2 1066
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227453

Just so you know moving forward, the actual voltage for DDR3 is 1.5v. You will have a difficult time finding quality memory at that voltage but if you keep an eye on it over the coming year or so you will see the timings and voltages drop closer to 1.5v as the technology matures.

This is an example of actual DDR3 1333
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231252

This is likely DDR3 1066 which is guaranteed to overclock to 1333
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148226

I say likely because it may be 1333 but just at higher timings at 1.5v, you wouldn't know until you bought it and ran CPUZ.

 

[b_digital]

Thank you all for your response. i think i will get this.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16820231219

Would 8Gb be overkill?

 

[badge]

I have 3 kits of the G. Skill linked. I believe it's from Powerchip a Japanese chipmaker, but at any rate the kits do well in my systems and run at advertised specs. Recently installed 8GBs with my E6600/965 with Vista 64. Had 3 GB with Vista 32 before. Made a difference in overall system performance for sure. I have found G. Skill to be slow responding to RMA requests in the past. But, this is a very good product for the price.

 

[b_digital]

Badge, thank you for your response.

I came across these chips:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220335&Tpk=Desktop%20Memory%20PVS24G6400LLKN

I notice the recommended voltage settings is 2.1v. Why is it this way and what will be the difference compared with the G.Skill with 1.8v since they both have the same timings?

 

[badge]

The two have the same specs, but the Patriot requires more voltage to run at the same speed. The G. Skill is very good RAM. It runs as well some more expensive Micron chips I have. Never owned Patriot of any kind. No reason though. Crucial is good RAM and their Ballistic series are Micron chips as far as I know. Micron is the parent Co. of Crucial, Inc. I have had good experience with Micron RMA warranty service. Corsair was also prompt when asked to do a RMA repalcement under warranty. OCZ was also very good to work with when RMAing their products. Just my experience is all. For $50 the G. Skill should do you well. Although I just had some G. Skill PC28500 fail memtest and tried to RMA. It was a hassle. They blamed it on 'moving'. They are in Walnut, CA so I am a few miles away. I could have driven over and handed to them before they got around to answering my email RMA requests.

Edit for Writer's embellishments.

 

[b_digital]

Thanks badge, what is the windows index rating for the g.skill?

 

[badge]

Well, I haven't run the 8 gigs with windows index yet on that machine. I installed Vista 64 on that E6600/965 machine last week. So far the machine runs much better with Vista 64 and 8 gigs of the G. Skill than it did with Vista 32 and 3 gigs of PC6400. I'm sure with Vista 64 and 8 gigs the windows index rating should be 5.9. I get 5.9 with 8 gigs of G. Skill in my other systems.

Q9450/x38 and 8 gigs of this.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231145

Also 5.9 in my AMD PII 940/780g and 8 GBs of this G. Skill.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166

My son gets 5.9 with a 4 GB kit you listed combined with a 2 GB kit of this G. Skill for a total of 6GB system RAM.

This RAM runs all day at 4-4-4-12 880+ MHz!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231098

 

[badge]

Let me see if I can run the E6600/965 8 GBs of the gkill you listed and get a screen shot up.

 

[b_digital]

Thanks badge, someone has the patriot windows index score of 6.3, but the high voltage is really a turn off

 

[badge]

ok, this is the system i put together last week. 8 gigs of the pc26400 you linked. e6600 c2d. asus q965 micro. the mb is limited on the oc i can attain. i believe the memory would go to a 5.9 windows index with a better oc. i think my fsb is at 280mhz/2.5ish ghz. voltage adjustment available/voltage regulators limit the oc. i'm on my 40 in. monitor on my htpc without my cordless keyboard. won't work with vista 64. this keyboard was 2.95 and has a short cord. 8)

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/3770/cropcrap.jpg

 

[geofelt]

For any ram you are considering, do your own homework.
Go to the ram vendor's web site, and access their configurator.
Corsair, Kingston, Patriot, OCZ and others have them.
Their compatibility list is more current than the motherboard vendor's QVL lists which rarely get updated.
Enter your mobo or PC, and get a list of compatible ram sticks.

Cpu performance is not very sensitive to ram speeds.
If you look at real application and game benchmarks(vs. synthetic tests),
you will see negligible difference in performance between the slowest and fastest ram.
Perhaps 1-2%. Not worth it to me.
Don't pay extra for faster ram or better timings unless you are a maximum overclocker.

Unless you are doing heavy multitasking, 4gb is enough. Very few programs are coded to use more than 2gb of ram.
4 sticks of ram may limit your ability to overclock. I suggest a 4gb kit(2x2gb) of ddr2-800 ram from a quality vendor.

 

[MikeJRamsey]

Sage advice, ancient poster geofelt.

 

[badge]

Thanks badge, someone has the patriot windows index score of 6.3, but the high voltage is really a turn off

The highest Vista Windows Index score attainable is 5.9. Windows 7 may be indexed by a different method, set of values. Never ran Windows 7 Index. I have a measly AMD 64 4000 single core and 2 GBs OCZ Platinum PC3200 DDR on my current Windows 7 64 installation.

 

[badge]

Memory configurators:

http://www.crucial.com/index.aspx

http://www.corsair.com/configurator/default.aspx

http://kingston.com/

http://conf.ocztechnology.com/index.php?c=1

 

[b_digital]

thank you all for your input, I'm going thru the configurator now. I'll probably stick with the G.skill. runs cooler. only if directron had them i can pick them up locally

Thank you, for making my decision easier

cheers!!!!