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Gagabyte GA-EP45-UD3R: MAY NEED A LORAZAPAM

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July 8, 2009 3:22:52 AM

Hi, guys, long time no talk. Thought I was through with building computers for another year or so, and it turns out that my buddy needs one, so I ordered this:

GA-EP45-GD3R
OZC platinum 4GB (2x2GB) 1066 (OCZ2P10664GK)
Intel core 2 duo E7400 Wolfdale 2.8GHz
Plextor PX-850SA DVD burner SATA
Seagate barracuda 250GB 7200RPM SATA
EVGA GeForce 9500GT 1GB PCI express
Thermaltake Purepower 500W PS
Microsoft Windows XP Home SP3 for system builders-OEM

…..$681.17 with the operating system, pretty cheap, yes?

I downloaded the motherboard manual and started reading it today and it literally scares the spit out of me! What’s with these million BIOS choices now??? What ever happened to “AUTO”, my favorite guy? And where-in-the-heck is ABIT??? We were good friends a year ago.

Anyway, I think I can work my way through it, but I’m really puzzled with the 8 SATA ports. Do I plug my single HD in sata one and the sata Plextor in SATA 2? A guy giving a review on Newegg said “Plug the HD into the yellow SATA2_0 and the DVD into the purple SATA2_0 otherwise if you don’t, the bios will think that the HD is the slave and the DVD is the master” (??)

True? The manual is far from friendly on this small point.

Anything else to get me off on the right track would be appreciated, parts come Thursday and I’m starting to sweat……(that DELL at Costco is looking pretty good right now…LOL)

-dave-
Medford, Oregon
a b V Motherboard
July 8, 2009 3:37:25 AM

You probably have 2 SATA connectors for the JMicron controller, and 6 for Intel's. Ignore the JMicron pair (Iforget the color), connect all your SATA devices to the Intel controller, whatever slots you like for good wiring. Mobo will sort it out just fine.

IIRC, ABIT's out of the mobo business.

Used to be just two things . . . type and correctape. Now we got options, and wind up with Word. Mobos are like that now. Welcome back.
a b V Motherboard
July 8, 2009 3:45:50 AM

Thought I'd add some info . . . the board will quite likely boot up fine by itself. A lot of stuff *is* Auto in the form of defaults, other choices are made based (eg) on data that is now stored on the DIMMs, which you may recall.

Do get into BIOS first time through and go through the options, and set/change *only* things you are sure of (like disabling the floppy, setting the boot sequence to CD first for now, etc.). Then let it boot up by itself.

Related resources
July 8, 2009 4:03:11 AM

Twoboxer said:
Thought I'd add some info . . . the board will quite likely boot up fine by itself. A lot of stuff *is* Auto in the form of defaults, other choices are made based (eg) on data that is now stored on the DIMMs, which you may recall.

Do get into BIOS first time through and go through the options, and set/change *only* things you are sure of (like disabling the floppy, setting the boot sequence to CD first for now, etc.). Then let it boot up by itself.


Thanks, Mr. TWOBOXER for the fast reply and terrific information. I'll sleep better tonight not worring about the stupid SATA connections.

I'll get it to boot and make some adjustments (of which I'm sure of, LOL) and probably be back to bug you next week.

Thanks again for the help, my friend. It is appreciated.

-dave-
Medford, Oregon
a b V Motherboard
July 8, 2009 4:08:44 AM

No problem - folks here will help, usually pretty quick, so don't hesitate to ask.
a c 177 V Motherboard
July 8, 2009 2:23:52 PM

Quote:
A guy giving a review on Newegg said “Plug the HD into the yellow SATA2_0 and the DVD into the purple SATA2_0 otherwise if you don’t, the bios will think that the HD is the slave and the DVD is the master”


Try to avoid even looking at stuff posted at NewEgg - the amount of total ignorance on display there is beyond human comprehension. Avoid the purple ports until you're out of the yellow ones - they are run by an ancillary jMicron-based controller 'hung off' the Intel southbridge which runs the yellow ones; it works, but has esoteric bugs, and isn't as fast as the Intels.

When you start up the board, be sure to do a <DEL> at the first boot, to enter the BIOS, and execute the "Load Optimized Defaults" function - that should get all your 'auto's set up correctly...

Good Luck!

Bill

PS - When someone posts here, I usually take a look at their manual, or download it if it's one I don't already have; is the MOBO part number possibly a typo? I don't have any luck using GB's board search page to find it... The nearest one letter substitution I can see is: EP45-UD3R
July 8, 2009 4:18:53 PM

Yep, it’s a typo. Sorry. Should be GA-EP45-UD3R as you suspected.

I looked at the line drawing of the board and saw that the two purple ports were kind of buried…almost an afterthought it seemed. But now that you’ve explained it, I understand. An astute guy could do well just making “Cliff Notes” in layman’s terms about the various boards (would be a BIG seller at Newegg, yes?). It is just great that you folks here do this for free, but most of the ‘uninitiated’, or, in my case, “under-initiated”, would gladly pay for this great info.

Glad you suggested to load optimized defaults on the first boot, I had forgotten that point. Thanks.

Thanks again for the help, I’m sure I’ll be back for more of your wisdom and hospitality. :) 
a c 177 V Motherboard
July 8, 2009 5:23:38 PM

Always welcome!

Quote:
It is just great that you folks here do this for free, but most of the ‘uninitiated’, or, in my case, “under-initiated”, would gladly pay for this great info.


It's sad, really, that almost none of the manufacturers 'get' that good after-sales support is the best possible advertising they could ever have! I've often speculated that GB could do worse than to send me a pallet full of boards, a nice Sunbeam open-frame case, and give me a monthly budget for parts - it'd probably be cheaper than their next ditzy 'Ultra Durable' ad campaign, and get better results, too!

BTW - if you'd like a quick & easy 'walk through' to throw a mild, 'easy-on-the-equipment' overclock into that thing (say, 20% faster, or about 3.4 GHz), post back - it'll probably consume less than an hour of your time, and should be noticeably 'snappier'... Several of the 'over-volting' crazies have those CPUs at 4GHz!
a b V Motherboard
July 8, 2009 5:49:03 PM

I agree with bilbat's assessment of Newegg reviews, and when he says good after-sales support would be the best form of advertising. Hell, they could get a 50% improvement just hiring a native, fluent (eg) English-speaker to edit websites and manuals lol. Unfortunately there is another side to the issue.

If you read the Newegg reviews, you get a pretty clear sense why manufacturers find it difficult to provide support to those folks :)  Inevitably, these guys tell the mfg only half the story trying to preserve an RMA so their own mistakes are cost-free. The truth can sometimes be dragged out of them in this forum lol.

And you *can* make use of the Newegg reviews, but its sort of like an artillery barrage firing for effect. You need to read a lot of reviews, and know enough to develop an "Idiot Detector".

Mild overclocking is easy and can be fun for folks who are willing to invest the time to read guides, learn, move slowly, record what they have done step by step for reference, ask questions, etc. If you move slowly, the worst that happens is a post, boot, or torture-test failure. You back off, make adjustments, try again. New cpus make it easier, and mobo tools make some OCs easier still.

If you are at all inclined, and have a little time, take advantage of bilbat's offer.
a c 177 V Motherboard
July 8, 2009 6:06:16 PM

ROFL!!

Quote:
You need to read a lot of reviews, and know enough to develop an "Idiot Detector".


Can you tell me where to get a new one of these? Mine burned out months ago, due, I think, to continuous overloading!

Another thing to realize about places like NewEgg (besides the fact that half of 'em don't have the mental wherewithall to successfully plug in a toaster, much less actually make toast) is that, when people are pissed (either because something doesn't work, or they simply can't make it work) they will certainly take the time to fire off a rude comment, but seldom does anyone for whom it simply worked (but was not an item to brag or rave about) bother to post their experiences, so the whole thing is skewed to make a lot of otherwise fine products look bad. This, too, is one of those skills that one needs - sorting out the fools from the actually problematic products...
July 8, 2009 6:08:31 PM

” It's sad, really, that almost none of the manufacturers 'get' that good after-sales support is the best possible advertising they could ever have! I've often speculated that GB could do worse than to send me a pallet full of boards, a nice Sunbeam open-frame case, and give me a monthly budget for parts - it'd probably be cheaper than their next ditzy 'Ultra Durable' ad campaign, and get better results, too!”

I agree with you, Bill. Even a coffee cake once in a while would stoke a guy. But, I suspect that they think of ‘compensated astute Gigabyte champions’ the same way banks think about restrooms for their customers: “It’s a nice touch but it doesn’t help the bottom line”. LOL Let’s just hope that Tony Liao, Gigabyte’s VP of NA reads this thread and you get recognized and compensated along with the other experts here! ;) 

4GB out of a $US80 chip! WOW! I can still remember drawing pencil lines between traces on the old AMD CPUs trying to get little more than a gig! I’ll see how confident I am after I throw this together, but I MAY be brave enough to ask you for a little guidance along those lines…..

Thanks again, my friend. :) 
a b V Motherboard
July 8, 2009 6:11:20 PM

bilbat said:
Can you tell me where to get a new one of these? Mine burned out months ago, due, I think, to continuous overloading!


From the symptoms you describe, your "Idiot Detector" prolly works fine - it just needs a new psu :) 
July 8, 2009 6:41:10 PM

Mr. Twoboxer, I’m beginning to learn about the ‘idiot detector’ LOL Now, when I read the reviews, I do just the opposite of what my doctor does when he asks me “how much do you drink?” I say two a night and he multiplies it times three (that’s pretty close). When I read the reviews and they say 5 “years of tech experience”, I divide that number by six (6) and feel that I’m pretty close. LOL

When they say they are going to overclock by switching the power supply from 117VAC to 220VAC, you begin to realize there is a problem, yes?

I sympathize with the manufacturers which create 10 levels of “customer service” in order to distance themselves from the idiots. And yes, you’re correct, you can see the creative stories spun in order to get that RMA! LOL “The box was perfect, but all the pins on the CPU were bent!” “Must have been someone at the factory”. Or “All of the stickers were removed when I got it, they sent me a used one and I paid for a new one!”

It brings a smile to my lips and a tear to my eye at the same time.....
a b V Motherboard
July 8, 2009 7:09:16 PM

Hey, I think he's *got* it lol ! And, aye, it's a laughing shame.
a c 177 V Motherboard
July 8, 2009 7:22:06 PM

Ya know?

I preach here all the time about senseless RMAs; I've tried to point out to people contemplating their third RMA for the same problem, that you are in such an impossibly far branch of quantum improbabilty here, your only reasonable response is to run out and buy a couple lottery tickets! It seems the easiest route - they're incapable of admitting that they've far overrun their knowledge and abilities; all that remains is to blame it on the manufacturer (and here's another place where some form of competent support would directly benefit Gigabyte), and 'could I have another, please'?! They just don't 'get' that each useless RMA raises the prices at both the vendor and the manufacturing sides of the supply chain. That's one reason I don't mind answering questions here - I figure, for every useless RMA I can prevent, the cost of my next board at NewEgg will go down a buck, and maybe two from Gigabyte...

Another point I've stressed repeatedly is - have you thought at all about whether it's actually provident to try to build a computer:

Quote:
I try to answer as many questions as I can here, both to be of service, and because I learn a lot of things that may be handy to me as I throw together the seven systems currently on my 'to be built' list. I have TRIED to overlook the ignorance, the egregious misspellings, the inability to form a grammatically correct sentence; sometimes I just can’t resist commenting. GOD forbid! The PC Police are always lurking to jump down your throat. I blame it mostly on the educational system, and the media. Discussions have gotten ruder and more aggressive; people whose obvious main ability is to harbor ignorant beliefs will repeatedly state them as facts, and civility has taken a dump!

Charles Murray (of ‘Bell Curve’ fame [or infamy, depending upon your attitude toward his revelations]) recently wrote a book about our education system, and its systemic failings; some of his points, I feel, are cogent to this matter, and bear repeating:

A. Half the population, BY DEFINITION, is BELOW AVERAGE! “You can lead a horse to water, but you CAN”T teach him calculus!” If you have minimal, or no, math skills; if you have only a vague idea of what is meant by ‘hexadecimal’ or ‘binary’, if you never did well in (or avoided completely) science and math courses – you probably SHOULDN’T be attempting to build a computer… The PC idiots have promoted the idea that everything (and everyone) is equal; that a PET scan (based on particle physics, and incredibly complex computer geometric analysis), Christian Science (based on faith that some possible omnipotent being will take responsibility to heal you), and homeopathic medicine (based on consuming poisonous ‘antidotes’ at dilutions beyond one molecule per MORE than the number of atoms in the WHOLE KNOWN UNIVERSE), are equally valid – are simply a difference of opinion. Well, I’m here to say that your opinion that your pile of parts SHOULD work together to somehow ‘become’ a computer will NOT make it function!
B. More than half the recent products of this educational system have an attention span that does not extend beyond texting two lines of grammar-free nonsense full of ‘texting contractions’, which means they have NO frustration tolerance. They’ve never been asked to ‘stretch’ their minds, to tackle something beyond their immediate grasp. Everything in their path has been so ‘dumbed-down’ that they assume any endeavor requiring more than an hour is somehow intrinsically faulty. I spent more than a hundred hours doing ‘due diligence’ research for my upcoming workstation build before ever ordering part one! These kids literally can’t imagine such an undertaking, much less believe that it might be necessary. They don’t ‘get’ the underlying math ( http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/254636-30-memory-volt... ), and they petulantly “want what they want” – the fastest parts advertised, with no comprehension of what they’re paying for, or getting, or what may be required to make it function. The computer media contribute to this problem. Their articles (to suit their confirmed knowledge about their readership) are too short to contain adequate technical discussion to expose potential problems (which their average reader doesn’t want to have to try to read, anyway…); take a ‘cheer-leader’ approach [see 1 below] to make their advertisers happy; and often present a computer ‘build’ in less than two pages, making it appear as if getting a dozen or two disparate parts to function together was merely a matter of assembly. The underlying problem here is that, if the parts themselves were technically and electronically ‘dumbed-down’, to the point where anything would work with anything (which is certainly, in most cases, possible – I hardly ever answer a question about getting 667 RAM to work), there would be NO ‘high-performance’ systems – no real REASON to ‘roll your own’. You certainly can’t BUY the parts cheaper than Dell, when they order in ten or hundred thousand lots. Such a ‘dumbing-down’ of underlying specifications would eliminate the X48 MCH, PC-9600 RAM, and Q9660 CPUs – and what would remain as the point?
C. A new phenomenon has been noted by university educators in the past ten or fifteen years – students arguing aggressively with professors regarding grades on egregiously bad papers. Their main point seems to center around the concept “that’s just your opinion”; they don’t get the idea that, well, yes, that’s my opinion, but my opinion is based on my experiences of twenty years as a tenured professor in this field, and yours is based on being a dip-stick!
D. The PC police, based on this erroneous assumption of essential equivalency, will argue that poor grammar, and worse spelling don’t matter. But they DO! When I read a post full of jumbled ideas and ridden with unbelievable misspellings, I immediately know that I’m dealing with someone whose jumbled thinking and basic ignorance will become a problem, if not THE problem. (Try this: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/254649-30-ep35c-dsr3-... ) If you don’t think this is FAIR (by the way – let me point out right here that LIFE is NOT fair), read Noam Chomsky to explore the relationship between command of language, and the ability to accurately manipulate abstract thoughts – they’re one and the same… You may not like those assumptions (and you might do well to give some thought to what a prospective employer will assume about your capabilities when you present him with an incomprehensible application full of misspellings, a bead in your nose, and an offensive tattoo on your wrist), but they are joined in reality by a high degree of statistical correlation; no amount of ‘opinion’, or ‘belief’, or ‘wish’, on your part will alter that correlation!

Sorry if I’ve offended (and I’m quite sure that I have), but every word can be confirmed just by going to New Egg’s ‘Eggspert’ forum and reading the posts!

1 – I used to subscribe to PC Magazine, as they were fairly technical, and basically honest in their reviewing. This was back during the days when the physical retrieval of a data stream from a hard drive was so slow, that there was much to be gained by doing LZW compression in hardware, on the way in and out. One day I received an issue in which they reviewed a drive controller card which they were never able to make work, although they tried it in several systems, and had access to a level of tech support from the manufacturer (who, since, I am glad to report, has gone out of business) that no user could ever get – and they wound up giving it an eight or nine rating, out of a possible ten, BASED ON THE FEATURES LISTED ON THE BOX!!! That very day, I sent them my cancellation notice!


Mostly, what this accomplishes, is to have the politically correct pounce, pointing out, in one form or another, the ditzy dictum that "everyone is special in their own way";
simply reminds me of another dictum: "Never try to teach a pig to sing - wastes your time, and pisses off the pig!"


a b V Motherboard
July 8, 2009 7:50:26 PM

Great read! Particularly:

- "Half are below average": This statistical concept also seems to escape politicians who continually appropriate more money so that their (schools, roads, whatever) will be "above average". Please stop. In the extraordinary case you are successful, you just make it more expensive for those of us who already are.

- "Equine calculus": Love it. And perhaps I've learned that my problem with pigs was made more severe by trying to teach them to fly, unsurprisingly with the same results.

Of course, I'm ignoring the truly important points of language manipulation, opinion-based "logic", etc, in order not to break down and cry for my grandchildren lol.
a c 177 V Motherboard
July 8, 2009 8:01:10 PM

Quote:
I'm ignoring the truly important points of language manipulation, opinion-based "logic", etc, in order not to break down and cry for my grandchildren


I feel for ya, brother - I saw where this was heading (south) a looonnng time ago - and had a vasectomy!

I'm a SciFi buff - back in the forties, with the collapse of the eugenics movement, Robert Heinlein accurately predicted that, by the eighties, you wouldn't be able to walk through a public park sans an armed guard!
July 8, 2009 8:10:47 PM

Bill, thank you so much for that wonderful quote but you’re preaching to the choir. I was the ghost writer for Mr. Murray and I told him that he was being too kind!

I am a product of UC Berkeley in the ‘60’s and I’m appalled at what I see now. What the heck happened in such a short time to our technical thinkers? Where have they gone? Our high schools have an exceedingly higher drop-out rate each year. Why? Most kids say they don’t want to do their senior project as it literally takes all year and it cuts into their free time. (!)

College? A private liberal arts institution please. Student loans for $100K. Sure! Can’t find a job to repay them, could you please forgive them as I’m really a nice person…..

Sorry, guys, but Bill pushed my button……I’m going back into the woodwork now.
a c 177 V Motherboard
July 8, 2009 8:40:39 PM

LOL - you probably need that lorazepam worse than when we started! :o 
a b V Motherboard
July 9, 2009 2:16:52 AM

Amen!
July 9, 2009 2:35:35 AM

Actually gentlemen, I felt much, much better after our venting session and didn't require any self-medication.

But what really made me feel better was when I discovered that there was, in fact, a place for all of those....um....disadvantaged to go....

......or they can work for the city



So we don't need to fret about that anymore, yes?
a c 177 V Motherboard
July 9, 2009 3:12:56 PM

ROFL!

Quote:
or they can work for the city


I'm pretty sure a sizeable proportion of them work for the Department of Transportation here in Wisconsin. We had a five week spell here where you couldn't get into the DOT offices because our state found they had to implement a federal procedure to show proof of citizenship to get a license, so in advance of this, the illegals were lined up a half-mile deep in the AM before the offices opened to 'beat the clock' on this new law. My immediate question was "why doesn't INS have a semi at the back door, and simply escort them from the front door, into the semi??" (Speaking of the DOT - remember your last experience renewing your license - soon, this will be your doctor's office!)

Youv'e GOT to read a couple short stories by Cyril M. Kornbluth that he did in the early fifties: "The Little Black Bag", and "The Marching Morons"; you will die laughing (if you don't commit suicide from despair about it all 'coming true')!!!
!