CPU

[Dienekes78]

Four years ago I and a friend built what I thought was a good gaming machine around an ASUS P5E3 premium motherboard and a Yorkfield 2.83 Ghz quad processor (LGA 775). Just recently I had heat problem when the CPU fan (Freezer Pro 7) seized and now have either a motherboard failure or CPU (potentially both). I'm checking to see if the failure is just the CPU or motherboard (or both). Assuming that it's just the CPU that got cooked. Is there anything in on themarket CPU's that would fit the socket that is better/faster than the Yorkfield? Or prehaps a less expensive option (I'm waiting for Sandybridge before I do a complete technology reflresh) that would give me equal or near equal perfromance? While I'm not a total Newb, I am no hardware maven either so I may need some explanation with your recommendation.....

Thanks in advance for your reply.

 

[geekapproved]

Your waiting for Sandy Bridge? It's been out for like a year now, and it's successor Ivy Bridge is only 2 months away.

Anyways, no the socket is obsolete, your best bet would be a used Q9400/Q9550 etc, but I doubt you could find one under $200.

You could get a modern cpu, mobo and 8GB of DDR3 for $200.

 

[diellur]

Stop waiting...Sandybridge is here (and has been for quite some time...)

 

[Dienekes78]

Sorry for dyslexic fingers, I meant Ivy Bridge. As to the rest of your message, I have been looking at an alternative starting with an i5 2500 (already got 8 gis of Corsair CMX4GX3M2a1700C9 - 1600 Mhz 9-9-9-24 memory) to couple with a ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 MB as an alternative since now I can no longer wait for Ivy Bridge. There will always be someting newer onthe horizon - as waiting is no lnger an option, I guess I should just press on - was kind of tryig to have cake and ice cream too by seeking a cheap replacement for the 775 cpu to tide me over. Just exporing alternatives. I got $1K to work with and all I need to replace is the CPU, MB and potentailly memory and a SSD.... Something like the folowing seems in order

MB ($205) - ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
CPU ($230) - i5-2500k
CPU Cooler ($35) - Hyper 212 EVO
MEM ($50) - Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1600 8GB CL9 1.5v
OS / Boot HD ($180) - Crucial M4 128GB SSD
OPTICAL ($60 after MIR) - ASUS Black 12x BD-RW

Thanks for the reply

Your waiting for Sandy Bridge? It's been out for like a year now, and it's successor Ivy Bridge is only 2 months away.

Anyways, no the socket is obsolete, your best bet would be a used Q9400/Q9550 etc, but I doubt you could find one under $200.

You could get a modern cpu, mobo and 8GB of DDR3 for $200.

 

[amuffin]

Or, i3-2100 and in april switch to i5-3570k or i7-3770k.

 

[geekapproved]

I was referring to a i3-2100/2120 setup, but he obviously has the money for the quad and an expensive motherboard to go with it.

 

[Dienekes78]

I am trying to build something that I can live with for 3-4 years, so am thinking of a more feature rich motherboard and a higher end CPU, but I've read here that for gaming (I will do mostly games, with lite business - heaviest app will be MS Project with very large project plans), the i5 2500K is a better cost/perfromance choice. And since I likley will not be looking to upgrade from this setup when it no longer supports higher end games, I'm not worried about the socket change that will come with Ivy Bridge or son-of-Ivy Bridge. What I laid out costs about $700 given I can reuse my ANTEC 1000 Power supply and 900 Case etc. Again thanks - just lookig for an effective choice I can ride for up to 3 years. I would have waited 6 months and spent twice as much for somehting more cutting edge, but given I can't wait, I'll have to make the best choices for the $1,000 that I can; given the constraints of wanting it to last 3 years within the dollars I have. The next upgrade is going to have to be substantial as by then the monitors and rest of the setup will be antique...

 

[geekapproved]

There is no socket change with Ivy Bridge. It should arrive around March. It's looking like 6-10% faster than Sandy Bridge but the graphics are much improved and the fastest model is only 77w.

 

[diellur]

+1

The CPU-side improvements of Ivy over Sandy aren't going to be huge, it's more an improvement in the integrated graphics. Also, Ivy is the first CPU to come out with trigate transistors...might not be the best CPU to try out from the first-generation technology perspective (IMHO) if Sandy is available to you also.

 

[Dienekes78]

Thanks, looks like the i5 and a good MB will tide me over for the next 3 years and then I'll be positioned to replace everything with the next gen Ivy and asociated technology upgrades in the 2014-2015 time frame. Thank you all for the insights..

D

+1

The CPU-side improvements of Ivy over Sandy aren't going to be huge, it's more an improvement in the integrated graphics. Also, Ivy is the first CPU to come out with trigate transistors...might not be the best CPU to try out from the first-generation technology perspective (IMHO) if Sandy is available to you also.

 

[geekapproved]

Thanks, looks like the i5 and a good MB will tide me over for the next 3 years and then I'll be positioned to replace everything with the next gen Ivy and asociated technology upgrades in the 2014-2015 time frame. Thank you all for the insights..

D

I think your confused. Ivy comes out in March, it won't be around in 2014-2015. lol

 

[Dienekes78]

I could well be confused, as my initial note indicates, I'm not a hardware maven - so no ego in this discussion - just looking for a best choice solutin given my situation and budget. Someone else in one of these threads indicated that a first gen IVY might not be the best approach cost effective wise. I needed a solution that will run high end games for the next few years reusing as much of my existing setup as I can, and then replacing most everything as the velocity of technology change will put my, what was decent hardware in '08 far into antiquity..

Making a new build is easy but getting to longer lasting solutions is a bit harder. Thank you for your comment.

I think your confused. Ivy comes out in March, it won't be around in 2014-2015. lol

 

[Blandge]

Let me see if I can clarify a few things. The term "generation" does not really apply for Ivy Bridge because there will not be any major changes to its design during the time that it is in production. Ivy Bridge is the third generation of Intel's Core processors. diellur was referring to the first generation of CPU's that use trigate, or finFET, transistors. I disagree with him. I would say that there is no reason why Ivy Bridge will not be better than Sandy Bridge in every way. The two use the same microarchitecture, so beyond device level they function almost identically (Ivy Bridge has more/newer features). The pricing of Ivy Bridge is nearly identical to Sandy Bridge, according to this pricing list on Tomshardware.

Clearly you want a high performance system right now, and the Sandy Bridge Core i5-2500k will provide you with this. Ivy Bridge will use the LGA 1155 socket that Sandy Bridge uses, and Intel will most likely continue releasing new Ivy Bridge SKUs until some time in 1H 2013. This gives you an ample upgrade path through the next couple years. If you wait until 2014/2015 to upgrade again, Ivy Bridge will most likely will be your best option for LGA 1155. That being said, if you are the type of person that only upgrades every 3+ years, you should count on having to replace most of the major components in the system, including CPU, Motherboard, memory and GPU at the very least. Consistent, yearly upgrades (generally alternating between CPU + Mobo and GPU) will ensure that your system is always able to play the latest games at ultra-high settings.

 

[geekapproved]

Ivy Bridge will be long gone even by 2013, cmon man, you guys know how Intel rolls.

 

[Blandge]

Ivy Bridge will be long gone even by 2013, cmon man, you guys know how Intel rolls.

It's unlikely, especially as they transistion to a new socket, LGA 1155 will probably get a final update, maybe even after Haswell is released as the 22nm finFET process matures. For example, Intel just released 7 new Sandy Bridge CPUs a couple days ago and the i7-2700k at the end of 2011.

 

[geekapproved]

Yeah but 2011 is supposed to have a shorter life than X58, and that was short.

The new SB cpu's, well, 4 of them are lowly Celeron's and i5's with no graphics, likely i3's and i5's that were failures being resold as low end cpu's either with hyperthreading disabled or graphics disabled, I can't really consider those NEW cpu's.

There was only 1 NEW cpu released and that was the 2550K, which is just a 2500K with the clock speed bumped 100mhz, again, not a something I consider a NEW cpu.

I can't see Ivy Bridge being around in 2014-2014. No way man.

 

[Blandge]

Yeah but 2011 is supposed to have a shorter life than X58, and that was short.

Oh yes I meant to type LGA 1155, I have corrected it.

The new SB cpu's, well, 4 of them are lowly Celeron's and i5's with no graphics, likely i3's and i5's that were failures being resold as low end cpu's either with hyperthreading disabled or graphics disabled, I can't really consider those NEW cpu's.

There was only 1 NEW cpu released and that was the 2550K, which is just a 2500K with the clock speed bumped 100mhz, again, not a something I consider a NEW cpu.

I can't see Ivy Bridge being around in 2014-2014. No way man.

Yes the i5-2550k and i7-2700k are exactly what I am talking about, a Sandy Bridge LGA1155 CPU with higher performance than the previous i5-2500k and i7-2600k.

I would consider them new.

And in 2014 there will certainly still be SOME Ivy Bridge CPUs in production, and many available used through 2015 and on, but I understand that there will not be any new SKUs. The point I was making is that in 2014+, LGA 1155 will STILL be limitted to the (by then) dated Ivy Bridge generation.

 

[Dienekes78]

Thank you for your thoughtful reply that does more than point out I'm no hardware guru. Tonight my friend brings over a 775 chip (e6600) so we can see if it’s the mobo or the CPU that’s fried. If it’s just the CPU, then the path forward is buy a new CPU and continue with my upgrade to Ivy bridge later in the year. If not, then your information confirms that I should pursue the i5 with a high quality mobo option. Given your reply, it also seems clear that the 3-4 year upgrade everything approach maybe ought to be rethought to an ongoing upgrade (if one has a socket like the 1155 that can last a while). I see an ongoing upgrade choice might be a better one; as my old setup with the 775/Q9550 was handling today’s games just fine and only the graphics card (that in 08 was a hot card a ZOTAC GTX280), is now just a heat creating hot card that needs replacing. Thank you again for your deeper answer. I think I understand the paths forward more completely.

Let me see if I can clarify a few things. The term "generation" does not really apply for Ivy Bridge because there will not be any major changes to its design during the time that it is in production. Ivy Bridge is the third generation of Intel's Core processors. diellur was referring to the first generation of CPU's that use trigate, or finFET, transistors. I disagree with him. I would say that there is no reason why Ivy Bridge will not be better than Sandy Bridge in every way. The two use the same microarchitecture, so beyond device level they function almost identically (Ivy Bridge has more/newer features). The pricing of Ivy Bridge is nearly identical to Sandy Bridge, according to this pricing list on Tomshardware.

Clearly you want a high performance system right now, and the Sandy Bridge Core i5-2500k will provide you with this. Ivy Bridge will use the LGA 1155 socket that Sandy Bridge uses, and Intel will most likely continue releasing new Ivy Bridge SKUs until some time in 1H 2013. This gives you an ample upgrade path through the next couple years. If you wait until 2014/2015 to upgrade again, Ivy Bridge will most likely will be your best option for LGA 1155. That being said, if you are the type of person that only upgrades every 3+ years, you should count on having to replace most of the major components in the system, including CPU, Motherboard, memory and GPU at the very least. Consistent, yearly upgrades (generally alternating between CPU + Mobo and GPU) will ensure that your system is always able to play the latest games at ultra-high settings.

 

[Blandge]

Thank you for your thoughtful reply that does more than point out I'm no hardware guru. Tonight my friend brings over a 775 chip (e6600) so we can see if it’s the mobo or the CPU that’s fried. If it’s just the CPU, then the path forward is buy a new CPU and continue with my upgrade to Ivy bridge later in the year. If not, then your information confirms that I should pursue the i5 with a high quality mobo option. Given your reply, it also seems clear that the 3-4 year upgrade everything approach maybe ought to be rethought to an ongoing upgrade (if one has a socket like the 1155 that can last a while). I see an ongoing upgrade choice might be a better one; as my old setup with the 775/Q9550 was handling today’s games just fine and only the graphics card (that in 08 was a hot card a ZOTAC GTX280), is now just a heat creating hot card that needs replacing. Thank you again for your deeper answer. I think I understand the paths forward more completely.

In general GPUs become outdated much faster than CPUs because of the nature of graphical processing. To make a GPU more powerful, a wider bus and more simple processing core can be piled on with relative ease (though difficult to do so without increasing power). This increases the parallel processing power of the GPU. Increasing the primary metric of CPU performance, single threaded performance, is much more difficult. Obviously CPUs have expanded to multiple cores with great success, but the real world performance benefit of using multiple cores for CPUs begins to diminish after 4-6 cores. This is subject to change in the next decade, but at the moment 4-6 cores is a sweet spot for the majority of applications.

This is why many enthusiasts buy a top tier video card when they become available such as 6970 or 580 (usally runs $400+, and then a year or two later when they need more performance they can get another(Usually runs $100-$200) and do SLI. It's rarely the best idea to buy 2 mid ranged cards for SLI unless cost is your primary metric.

 

[geekapproved]

So a year or two later you can get a GTX580 for $100 to $200? lol

I got news for ya, the GTX580 has been out way over a year and it's still $500. It'll disappear completely before you see it drop lower than $300.

Don't expect any mobo to last you more than 2 years and still find cpu's for it. They get discontinued shortly after a new model comes out as soon as inventory runs dry. If you do find one at that point, it's usually going to cost you more than a modern cpu would.

 

[Blandge]

So a year or two later you can get a GTX580 for $100 to $200? lol

I got news for ya, the GTX580 has been out way over a year and it's still $500. It'll disappear completely before you see it drop lower than $300.

Don't expect any mobo to last you more than 2 years and still find cpu's for it. They get discontinued shortly after a new model comes out as soon as inventory runs dry. If you do find one at that point, it's usually going to cost you more than a modern cpu would.

I am of course talking about used parts here. Are you telling me you cannot find a single LGA 1156 cpu on craigslist? I concede that you may be correct about the GPU price. Dropping from $400 to $200 after one year is probably an overestimation of devaluation.

 

[geekapproved]

Sure you can still find a Q9550, but you'll pay $200 for it.