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July 22, 2010 11:59:47 PM

Should I keep my avatar or change it to what? I scatter the forum I post on currently apparently scaring people off fearing avatar-related injury. I was thinking of using a photo I have of an xgirlfriend, but the TOS won't allow it. Anyway, if you could care less, just leave a personal attack message in the form of a potential avatar. The real reason I posted. I have a CPU question and I didn't want to wade through the nOObs answering at the top. Apparently the thermal sensor on my Q94450 has ceased. With the hosed TS, are the temp software like Real temp, etc. accurate? Or are the Temps 'jaded' due to the sensor being in a state of not properly functioning? If possible, give links supporting the answer. Also, would you RMA the processor with a TS problem?
July 24, 2010 5:36:27 AM

If I recall correctly, I believe that a lot of the C2Q's have temp. sensor issues. My Q9400 is no different, i.e. the first two cores register the correct temps, while 3 and 4 are "stuck" on 37 until the cores actually go past that temperature. I'm not sure if getting another one will solve your issue or not to be honest.
July 24, 2010 5:52:53 AM

Well, the temps seemed to be normal until I swapped the unit from X38 to a P45. I get wild temp swings from Real Temp to Core Temp monitoring software. I can run both apps simultaneously and difference in temps is astounding. As much as 10 degrees on any particular core. With the X38 I had no such problem. I just went through latest BIOS again looking for any overvoltages to the unit. Real Temp reports temp sensor normal. The reads are high. Currently using TT Blue Orb. Had the Tuniq Tower 120 on it. Have all the case fans plus some. Using Artic Silver thermal paste. I really don't know what to do about RMAing the unit. I am OC'ed to 3GHz, but use speedstep to keep it from running hot temps when idling. My son uses it to game. He runs it full blast for hour upon hour and it doesn't fail, just shows temps in the high 50's at idle to high 60's F stressed. Normal room temperature. The idle temps were mid to high 30's and stress 40's the year or more I used it in my X38. Any suggestion?
Related resources
July 24, 2010 11:30:45 PM

Been a while since I messed with the 45nm. IIRC, many of them always report too high of an idle temp. I do know that you have to configure Tj Max to 95°c on the 45nm. I think Real Temp is already set at that, while other programs like Speedfan and Core Temp default at 100 or 105°c for Tj Max, which would explain your temp swings.
July 25, 2010 3:18:43 PM

The machine has been running about 15 minutes. The temps are similar with Real Temp and Core temp. So, I was wrong about the temps being so different between the two. Is it possible the move to the P45 caused the higher temps that are obviously occuring with the Q9450? The Real temp/Core temps were much cooler when the CPU was installed on the X38 chipset. P45 can cause the chip to run hotter?

Current:

Q9450
ASUS P45
2 x Radeon 4850
6 GB PC28500
WD 640 BL
PCP & C 610w

Prior config same Q9450 ran with much cooler temps:

Q9450
ASUS X38
2 x Radeon 4850
8 GB PC28000
WD Raptor 150
TT 700w TP

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/7562/q9450p45.jpg





July 25, 2010 10:01:58 PM

Quote:
Been a while since I messed with the 45nm. IIRC, many of them always report too high of an idle temp. I do know that you have to configure Tj Max to 95°c on the 45nm. I think Real Temp is already set at that, while other programs like Speedfan and Core Temp default at 100 or 105°c for Tj Max, which would explain your temp swings.


I misstated my earlier comment. The temp swings I was referring to is the huge difference in temps on the same processor when moving it from the X38 to the P45 setup. My bad, it has been some months since I have tried troubleshooting this temp problem I have currently with the Q9450. The chip ran beautiful for like almost two years. Now I have the high temps displayed in my post above. You think you can help talking Randomizer into commenting. I know He knows a lot about this subject. Then, there was the guy (can't think of his name right now) who had the 'temp guide' stickied for so many years. I'm sure if He were here, He could thoroughly give me ebough information to make my head pop right off my shoulders and roll onto the floor.

Then there is always this great advice available from the BoM French techs regarding how to open a bottle of wine. Caution French content. Be careful what you say. Their surrender is imminent.



July 26, 2010 1:29:21 AM

Did you mount the heatsink properly? That's the most common cause of different temps. The chipset shouldn't make any differences unless it's pumping out heat like a radiator. Don't worry about the differences between Real Temp and Core Temp. Each will probably use a different assumed value for Tjunction Max when it is not really known or particularly important. Delta (or distance) to Tjunction Max is what you want to know, because that's what each program reads before translating it into an absolute temperature. Of course there are plenty of reasons why you should take that information with a grain of salt as well, but since you're looking at a difference between two setups you can fairly safely assume that there is a real rise in temperature.
July 26, 2010 3:35:18 AM

Well, now that you mention it an improperly seated heatsink/fan is often the cause of temps that look like mine. That has been my experience too. I first installed the Tuniq Tower 120 on the system when I built it. It was big. I hope in the end I didn't bend something geting it on tight. Like the CPU itself! Or the house! The Tuniq showed those high temps like you see. So, I used an engine hoist and removed the 4 story Tuniq and installed a new Thermaltake Blue Orb with it's giant like 120mm blue fan. I didn't really use an engine hoist, but it was funny when I thought it. I think what I will do is take the fan off the blue orb and check the bottom of the copper heatsink as well as the top of the CPU housing for levelness. I can use a flat edge and run it along the surfaces and look for any daylight. I'm lucky if I can see the sun on most days, but I'll manage. I can write down the numbers of the CPU in case I decided to fill out the RMA paperwork too. I think big.

Thanks Randomizer. I think you are spot on my friend. I'll try and do all this later tonight. It may take me a couple of days to get to it though. Gott go out in the garage and find my engine hoist.
July 26, 2010 4:40:57 AM

Removed the TT Blue Orb cleaned and reapplied Artic Silver. Well, no change in temps. The surface of the HS as well as the CPU housing are flat. The copper heatsink fits right down on top the CPU. The temps look like the ones posted above, so no need to post again.
July 26, 2010 10:06:38 AM

Badge you should keep your avatar ...

We need to be able to find you for security reasons ...

I can see what your tying now ... so don't hit <enter> until you change that last sentence.

July 26, 2010 4:47:11 PM

I have may have some ideas I want to try for the avatar. Canned the idea of me in the tub. I like exit2dos's avatar. I was thinking I could pull out the old photos I have of me and Manson growing up. I was thinking of choosing a shot of Charlie and me in a cute moment. I am grateful you didn't move this to the CPU section. I may be subject to a breach in security responding to the hate mail up there. I'm seriously thinking I 'may' RMA the unit. I will be busy going through thiose old photos I mentioned. Enough about me. Life on parole must be great, you look good.
July 27, 2010 12:05:03 AM

I don't think Intel RMA based on temperatures alone. After all, the DTS is not designed for use as a source of temperature monitoring data. It is there purely to trip thermal protection.
July 27, 2010 12:12:03 AM

Quote:
I don't think Intel RMA based on temperatures alone. After all, the DTS is not designed for use as a source of temperature monitoring data. It is there purely to trip thermal protection.


I am assuming my Q9450 is operating at those elevated temps I posted earlier. Goes back to my original question, are those temps actual CPU temps or has the busted DTS caused inaccurate readings by Core temp, etc. Yeah, I would just say the CPU failed if I RMA'd it. Since Intel no longer makes the 9450, maybe I would get a new latest stepping Q9550 in exchange. Then again I might get it back just the way I sent it in, broken.
July 27, 2010 12:17:22 AM

Oh I'm sure Intel keeps a few old chips around for RMA purposes :) 

It's unlikely that the DTS is "busted." Does the temperature fluctuate +/- a few degrees just under normal usage or does it pretty much stay at exactly the same idle temps until you put it under heavy load?
July 27, 2010 1:42:02 AM

Well, mine is a retail box. I recently RMAds my e8400 and received a brand new sealed retail box with a latest stepping e8440. So, if the DTS is not busted, do you think the temps Real Temp are giving are accurate? The cores are idleing mid 50's near 60C? Before, when installed on the X38 the same chip idled 20 degrees cooler. Currently the temps do fluctuate a few degrees under normal load. FTR, I ran Prime on the chip on the old X38 and it passed under normal runs. I have not run Prime with the unit installed on the P45. Do you think the CPU is running at those temps I posted? Or running cooler than Core Temp reads?

I use speedstep. Idle is 2.2GHz. Stressed is 3GHz.
July 27, 2010 1:51:36 AM

It's hard to know really. If you changed Real Temp/Core Temp versions that can alter the reported temps because they sometimes change the Tj Max for certain chips. The Distance to Tj Max is more important in the end anyway. Everything else is guesswork.
July 27, 2010 2:03:04 AM

Possible the core temp software is accessing the processor temperature via 'other' means on a P45 than say the X38? Both boards are using Windows 7 64 with the same version of core temp installed. I'm wondering if the physical socket on the P45 (pin contacts for example) is defective? Like nothing wrong with the Q9450, but the socket it is plugge in to is 'flawed'?

Here's the P45. Brand new never had another CPU installed. There's an idea. Install another CPU and see how the temps go.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/asu...
July 27, 2010 6:14:08 AM

reynod you are doing a fantastic job as moderator and glad to see you have so much time to be on Tom's with the new babysitter working out so well. How old are your kids now?

July 28, 2010 7:41:58 PM

Update. The Q9450/P45 crashed and burned. I RMA'ed the processor to Intel this morning. Put in a request to ASUS for RMA authorization on the P45 Pro Turbo also. I read a reliable review stating the ASUS Pro Turbo had heat issues with an inadequate chipset cooling solution being the problem. The chipset cooling system on my A8N32-SLI Deluxe 939 is much larger and serves it's purpose better than the puny heatsinks this P45 came equipped with. I believe my heat problems stems from this inadequate MB cooling system.

On a more serious note, if anyone (reynod) has any questions, please Ask Carole.

Key quote:

By around six months human infants start to babble and, depending on the sociability of the individual, this spontaneous chattiness may continue into adulthood. This is more likely to happen in females than males.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/jul/24/ask-carol...

July 29, 2010 4:55:00 AM

Ah, so it was an issue with the MOBO. I take it that you're going to go with a replacement Q9450? I've been contemplating bumping mine up to a Q9550 for the heck of it if I can find a cheap one (an extra 6MB of L2 won't hurt).
July 29, 2010 5:08:59 AM

Yeah the system would no longer boot up. I took out the Q9450 and bench tested it with the e6600 from my HTPC. Nothing, dead board. It had to be the heat related issue that caused it. The system ran hot like that for months. That q9450 ran real nice on my x38. As soon as I built the ASUS Pro Turbo P45, the processor was like on fire. The temps went up 20 degrees with the same OS and smae version of Real Temp.

The Intel RMA was a little different this time. I used the online chat to RMA. I was asked the usual 6 lines of information on the processor, so have it out of the machine before you RMA. Then, the guy asks the numbers off the back of the stock Intel fan that came with it! I had that, so I got the RMA ok. Tip: Just tell them the chip failed. Don't try explaining the DTS is hosed. You bench tested it thoroughly and it failed. Yeah, I expect to get a new retail box Q9550 back in couple of weeks.

Nothing wrong with asking for a warranty replacement for a unit that has a bugged DTS. If Microcenter is near, sometimes they offer the Q9550 for $149. I paid $159 for mine. But I paid $299 for the Q9450 when it was released.

http://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.phtml?...
July 30, 2010 9:19:37 PM

Update regarding ideas for my avatar change. Well, I was up in Los Angeles today and swung by Tom's corporate offices in Marina Del Ray. I didn't realize LA is the capital of Mexico, and since 1967. I got this pic of a couple of Tom's employees waiting outside accounting. It was obvious to me these crack French bench techs are visiting from Tom's offices in Paris. Smells like Tom's teen forum avatar material to me. These two immediately surrendered when they saw me shooting with my camera.



July 31, 2010 5:35:42 AM

Quote:

"The Distance to Tj Max is more important in the end anyway. Everything else is guesswork."

This quote is what I will remember. The article is good and delves pretty deep into the inner workings of how the temperature of the CPU is measured (or in Intels case, how to interpet temps if the the busted stuff isn't present). A little insight into my interest into how a prospective DTS works. I'm really good at diagnosing the transition game in Pro basketball ;)  In my case, I was stuck with a processor that ran hot after two years of running cool. When the MB failed under the stress of a processor that had decided to end it's lifespan early, I had the opportunity to RMA the unit and I did. Im sure I'll be happy with my new latest stepping C2Q9550. My inadequately planned, puny cooling solution ASUS Pro Turbo P45 is headed to ASUS RMA land tomorrow morning too. Not even the skyscraper-like behemoth Tuniq Tower 120 could quell the system's thirst for heat production. The TT Blue Orb resembled a finely crafted Asian hand fan when put up against the heat output of the oven-like Intel siphering station. Using Speedstep to quell the heat made no sense as the Intel instruction pamphlet suggested, I'm sure. Thermal paste may as well have been Ketchup (remember that thread).

I remember your posts with Comp and I think Grimmy. I know you know a lot on the subject and have spent a lot of time working at it. Thank you for sharing. If you ever need some insight into transition basketball, check out an Oklahoma City Thunder game. I sincerely appreciate the help Random.
August 26, 2010 6:00:02 AM

Update on this 'heat' thing I experienced. I rebuilt the system with the new retail box Q9450 Intel sent out under RMA warranty. Also, the MB was RMA'd with ASUS support and the same P5Q Turbo Pro P45 I sent to them was sent back. Other than ASUS support flashing the BIOS to an older version than I had, I can not tell if anything was physically done or not.

For the record, the previous temps with the malfunctioning CPU and it's faulty DTS are posted above. All the hardware is the same as before with this new Q9450 installed reading out these temps. Apparently the problem was indeed the result of a faulty DTS.

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/8654/aug25new.jpg




Below are the temps with the faulty DTS plagued CPU installed.

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/7562/q9450p45.jpg
August 26, 2010 1:58:34 PM

I raised this issue 2 years ago with the E8 series CPU's and got mauled by an unfriendly group of rabid Intel fanbois ... and my hair has only recently grown back.

Random's advice is quite good badge.

I ignore all of the thermal settings are after fitting an aftermarket cooler ... and a pizza oven laser works good for me ... as I don't trust the thermal sensors on any of the Intel core2 line of CPU's.

They are about as useful as the K7 thermal diode ... or a flashing light on a deaf person's phone.

August 26, 2010 4:50:16 PM

The allways useful haywire DTS was ignored for seven months. Finally I got tired of doing my computing looking at a blank screen and had to do something. Now I'm happy to have a picture back on the LCD. I'm told that's how the LCD works when the planets are in alignment in the shape of an 'I' for Intel. Now my Logitech stuff is not being logical. My Canon printer is making a booming noise too. I am happy with the smell of of my Rosewill keyboard. And I noticed my Cooler Master is turning my my Patriot RAM against me. Maybe you could shed a Liteon it with your vast knowledge of the Volvo. And no a volvo is not a part of the female anatomy. BTW I don't live in Tulsa, but I would like to invite you to Shuttle on over there. It's backwards of me, but Tulsa spelled backwards is aslut and I know you are interested. I'm really sorry about the mauling. Take a couple of Zotac, you'll feel better.

Edit for Writer's embellishment.
August 26, 2010 9:02:47 PM

Quote:
I raised this issue 2 years ago with the E8 series CPU's and got mauled by an unfriendly group of rabid Intel fanbois ... and my hair has only recently grown back.

Random's advice is quite good badge.

I ignore all of the thermal settings are after fitting an aftermarket cooler ... and a pizza oven laser works good for me ... as I don't trust the thermal sensors on any of the Intel core2 line of CPU's.

They are about as useful as the K7 thermal diode ... or a flashing light on a deaf person's phone.

I was always having a pop at Computronix and the need for users to set the thresholds for temp monitor software because of that sensor issue, my argument being "how do you know the reading is correct?".
August 27, 2010 3:27:58 PM

I was more interested in the output temp on the water block ... thankfully now you can get decent performance without resorting to neutron control rods and screaming fans and the like.
August 28, 2010 10:46:53 PM

Quote:
I was thinking of using a photo I have of an xgirlfriend, but the TOS won't allow it.

If you do it, I doubt any of the mods here will ban you :p 
August 28, 2010 10:54:41 PM

Im still waiting for liquid dry ice
August 28, 2010 11:38:11 PM

Quote:
I was thinking of choosing a shot of Charlie and me in a cute moment.


I found the video:
August 28, 2010 11:52:02 PM

Looks like thered be alot of bellyaching tween charlie and Badge
August 29, 2010 1:00:43 AM

This topic has been approved by Mousemonkey

August 29, 2010 1:11:32 AM

OK MM quit monkeying around
August 29, 2010 1:41:29 AM





August 29, 2010 1:52:26 AM

He sounds like one frustrated pussy cat
August 29, 2010 3:16:14 AM

It started off being "mmm ello" and ended up "ummmemomwoyo"
August 29, 2010 9:54:20 AM

Can you translate for us random??
August 29, 2010 10:24:19 AM

I dunno what happened there, I back clicked and the the thread came up as closed. :??: 
August 29, 2010 7:56:30 PM

-Update on search for new avatar to prevent my curent situation regarding scaring people off fearing avatar-related injury.

Option 1: Have Charlie's girls carve up exit2dos into little pieces (like 1/2 inch by 3/8" if questioning the accuracy of my friends) then take his Gacy related avatar for my own.



Option 2: Use this avatar I made from my signed lithograph picturing SRV imitating me.



Option 3: Use no avatar and post a link to video in it's place.

http://www.break.com/index/farmer-bales-himself-in-hay....

Writer embellishment note. Taking offers on the signed lithograph. Signed badge.
August 30, 2010 12:09:25 AM

Quote:
-Update on search for new avatar to prevent my curent situation regarding scaring people off fearing avatar-related injury.


Well, these scare me:


August 30, 2010 12:24:34 AM

Ones a fruit the other is a super heroine, called the Bulk, its OK...really
August 30, 2010 12:29:11 AM

Now, if we could just get her to wear that suit...
August 30, 2010 1:00:41 AM

Whatd be scary is the bulge would get bigger
August 30, 2010 2:27:35 PM

Pleas stop posting pictures of the other moderators here on the forums.

It is distressing to our loyal users ...

They normally look up to us for advice ...

Do we really want them to know we like spandex, non-windows operating systems, and can only type one-handed?

The picture of Nadine was particularly distressing ...
August 30, 2010 6:57:15 PM

Quote:
Pleas stop posting pictures of the other moderators here on the forums.

It is distressing to our loyal users ...


My comment: I like the seperation factor here. I could not resist posting this link regarding the disposition possibilities our terrific group of heavily intoxicatedMods. Pardon the insinuation, but reynod mentioned banging his face into a partition injuring himself on a hard drive. I think not.

According to Hamilton County Sheriff’s deputies, Frankenstein, of Hamilton, was intoxicated when he approached them and threatened multiple times to kill them, stating, “If I had a knife I would stab you.”

Frankenstein was taken into custody and placed into a cruiser.

He then kicked out a rear side window of the vehicle, rendering it unusable, court documents said.

Deputies moved Frankenstein to another vehicle where, according to a police report, he repeatedly banged his face into the partition, injuring himself.

Taken to University Hospital for treatment, Frankenstein continued to threaten deputies and then, medical staff, deputies said.


Linking this is against my strict rule of not making fun of names. But in this case Forrest V. is a Jr.

Headwound




August 30, 2010 7:01:32 PM

I'm only slightly intoxicated. :ange: 
August 30, 2010 7:10:27 PM

Unlike the other Mods reynod who has to be hammered to get the truth out of him. :heink: 
!