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Upgrade Q6600 or Buy New i7 920?

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May 12, 2009 9:44:07 PM

I find myself in a crappy situation. I am currently using the follwing PC for home use: (mostly for video games with a lot of internet browsing and some music listening thrown in)

CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4GHz Q6600 (no overclocking)
Mobo: Intel DP35DP
RAM: 2x2GB OCZ Platinum DDR2 800
HDD's: 1x WD Caviar Blue 500GB (for OS) and 2x WD Caviar Black 500GB (Raid 0, for applications/storage)
PSU: NSpire PSH650V
Video Card: EVGA 8800GT
Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS
OS: Windows Vista x64 (eventually I want to dual boot with XP)
Case: Antec P182



Not a terrible system, except for the PSU, which I plan to replace with a Corsair 850TX as soon as I have the $$$. The RAM, HDD's, and the case are all new. (I upgraded a few months ago)

I was planning to overclock it to bring out it's inner beast, and to keep me happy until i7's dropped in price, or until they released something better... but then I made a frustrating discovery. My motherboard isn't capable of overclocking... (sigh)

So now I have a choice to make, I can either purchase a new motherboard and a CPU cooler (the stock cooler probably won't be enough after I overclock it) for my current setup, or I can upgrade to an i7 920.


I'd already picked out the parts for this new PC below:

CPU: Intel Core i7 920 2.66GHz
Mobo: ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 X58
RAM: 3x2GB Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1333



Basically, I want to know what you think. Is it worth getting a new motherboard/CPU cooler for my current setup, or should I just count my losses and spring for the i7 gear?

PS: Please forgive me if I should have posted this in another forum. I didn't really know where it should go; seeing as how it mostly has to do with CPU's, I chose here.

More about : upgrade q6600 buy 920

May 12, 2009 9:50:08 PM

That is the same issue I'm facing. My system is aging with multithreaded apps and i7 sounds great. My friend has a Q6600 at stock speeds and my E6750 @ 3.7Ghz is usually faster than his in most applications. The CPU, Board and RAM all look great. That is also the same setup I'm looking at. I just have to sell my current CPU/Mobo/RAM first. Go for the i7 and sell your current CPU/Mobo/RAM.
May 12, 2009 10:06:56 PM

It's nice to hear that someone's in the same boat as me. Hahaha.

I was leaning toward the i7 myself... I have been looking into new video cards too, but there's SOOOO friggin many that everytime I try to look up reviews and find the ones I want, I just get overwhelmed and quit. I'm interested in SLI or Multi-GPU configurations, but like I said, I don't know where to begin.
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May 12, 2009 10:19:10 PM

@kufan64
your psu is fine, you dont need bigger psu for your components when you get the $$$ buy an aftermarket heatsink and overclock your q6600.

they are very overclockable I got mine to 3.4ghz easily and it works like a charm
I can help you with overclocking and give you settings that I use

Now I will quote a review from newegg
"Basically, if you already own a Quad Core Q6600 or a higher end Dual Core CPU, upgrading to this won't improve your performance by a great degree. Also factoring in $200+ for a motherboard and 3 sticks of DDR3 memory, this setup could cost more than it's worth. If your an advanced user who runs software that utilizes the multiple cores of your CPU, such as VMware or other, you will notice the performance enhancements to a greater degree. In my opinion, most regular users and gamers would be better served buying a Q6600 and a bargain motherboard which will produce similar results at half the cost. Wait until next year when prices come down substantially."

As for myself I will not upgrade till 32nm processors will come out to get nice improvement for my money haha (:

@one-shot
in benchmarks core i7 shines when you use multiple graphic cars/1680x1050+ resolution. I would check my motherboard and see if its compatible with lga 775 quads and would get the q9550 and overclock it. In game benchmarks the 920 and q9550 run equally when you use single gpu. Save the money and get the q9550 dont change the whole system and wait for 32nm cpus to come out

/myfivecents
May 12, 2009 10:54:39 PM

@alvine
I've been trying to keep on top of upcoming and new technology, but I have to admit, I don't know what a 32nm cpu is...

As for my PSU... I know my voltages are good, but to be honest I don't trust the brand when it comes to overclocking. It has held up well for a couple of years, but with the added stress of overclocking, I fear it could fail and take my whole system with it. That was my logic for dropping over $100 on a new one before upgrading to either the i7, or overclocking my Q6600.

Another reason I am reluctant to buy a new motherboard AND a new heatsink for my Q6600, is mainly the fact that the Q6600 will become outdated sooner, will never be as fast, and I'll have to drop another couple hundred dollers into it.
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May 12, 2009 11:33:50 PM

@kufan64

I have to agree when you overclock you need a good powersupply, if you dont trust it then get a better one. I was running raidmax 530w with exact same specs. It was funny because when i had my quad overclocked to 3.4ghz i coudnt have my card stable at overclocked settings and when i backed off overclock on the cpu the card was stable haha then I knew I just needed more juice (:

To answer your question there will be 32nm cpus coming out, what is 32nm you ask? Its the size of transistors that make up the processor. Q6600 uses 64nm transistors making it run hot, need a lot of power. q9450/q9550/e8400/intel core 7 use 45nm transistors meaning they are smaller and they need less energy making them run cooler and allowing you hit higher overlocks. So when 32nm intels come out (q4 2009 / q1 2010) they will simply rn cooler and give us higher speeds so from my analogy its not worth to upgrade from 64nm to 45nm but to skip it and wait for 32nm and see the difference

And no you cannot stay on top of technology there is always something new coming out around the corner, just think about what do you use your computer for and get the parts that will suit your needs and dont go for the bleeding edge best since you are paying premium (intel 965 costs grand) when you can back of a little and get a 920 for less then 300 bucks.

hope that helps and clears things out a little
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May 12, 2009 11:58:35 PM

If you have the money for the i7 system then I would go with that and use the old Q6600 in a backup system. If the expense is gonna be painful for you though, then just a get a good motherboard and heatsink. You'll spend like 120 on a good P45 board and 30 on decent heatsink. Hey $150 is alot easier to swallow ^_^. You'll definitely see a big improvement by overclocking that CPU and it should help you hold out till the next line of i7s come out.
May 13, 2009 12:28:58 AM

@alvine
Thanks for the info. Do you happen to have any more info about intel's next line of chips? I had heard about the core i5's, but from what I was able to gather, they will just be less powerful, more affordable versions of the i7's.

@megamanx00
Thanks for the opinion. I'm not exactly rolling in money, but I can afford it if it will guarentee no major upgrades for another few years. I know it's impossible to get hardware that will be top-of-the-line for more than a couple months... but I like making large jumps and spending quite a bit in a short amount of time as opposed to taking little steps and spending money constantly to keep it up to date... So I'm still not sure what to do :p 
May 13, 2009 12:58:24 AM

I recently upgraded from Q 6600 3.3 to core i7 920 (3.8). I7 does run faster and it is easy to oc. But, if you can, i would suggest you to hold off core i7. Instead oc your q6600 to 3.3 or 3.6. Day to day applications such as word, browsing and windows loading time are about the same. I can tell the difference in applications such as cs4, encoding and ripping. core i7 runs faster. Unless you are looking for a bragging right, just stick with q 6600 and oc it. If you like, upgrade your psu. Buy a cooler that is compatible with both socket 775 and 1366. That way, you will ready for core i7 system in the future.

In short, upgrade psu and cooler. Oc the bad boy to 3.3 or higher. I know how fast q6600 is at 3.3. you will not regret it.
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May 13, 2009 1:16:55 AM

I would agree with the last poster.

If you do nothing except benchmark or video work all day then sure you will see a performance increase by going to an i7. Otherwise, just overclock your Q6600 a little bit more.

For the average user, upgrading from a Q6600 to an i7 will leave you wondering if you actually did upgrade at all.
May 13, 2009 1:21:47 AM

htoonthura, if you read his post, you'll learn that his motherboard is apparently incapable of overclocking. Talk about impotent, rofl.

@kufan64
Let's see, do you pay ~$250 for a new motherboard, power supply, and heatsink for an approximate 1ghz boost in performance, or do you pay .... what, $700? For a new x58 motherboard, i7 920, heatsink, PSU, and RAM for a substantial boost in multi-threaded applications and a minor boost in games and other common apps?

I'd honestly sit tight with the new motherboard (and new PSU, if you insist that your current one is incompetent) and overclock the Q6600 and just sit tight and watch how the computing world unfolds.
May 13, 2009 1:38:37 AM

@htoonthura
I was looking for both 775 and 1336 compatible CPU coolers, but was having trouble finding a good one. Do you know of any in particular that you'd recommend?

@jennyh
Thank you for the input. I've done a little research, and from what I can tell, the i7 isn't exactly a giant leap forward as far as game performance is concerned.

@mlcloud
I have to admit I lol'd at that impotent joke. :) 
I may just take your advice and try sticking with the Q6600 for another year or so and see what awesome stuff comes out for me to buy...

Thank you everyone for the great feedback, I'd still like to hear other's opinions as to what you would do we're you in my situation, but now I find myself leaning toward the side of biting the bullet and buying a new mobo and cpu cooler for my current hardware.
May 13, 2009 1:40:43 AM

If your motherboard can not oc, then i would try to sell the parts that you can not reuse it. In my opinion, it is not a wise move at all to spend more money on old platform.
May 13, 2009 1:45:05 AM

@htoonthura
Really? That's an interesting change of opinion. That's what I originally was thinking, but since i7 isn't too much better than current core 2 quads, I was thinking it might be a smarter move to get a little bit more life out of my current harware and wait for the next-gen processors to come out before getting any major upgrades.

Can you elaborate a little bit more on that?
May 13, 2009 1:45:21 AM

Remember, it's always up to you though, because apparently you're forced to spend money either way. Just trying to take the weight of the decision off of my shoulders here ;) 

The Mugen 2 is a cooler compatible with both LGA 775 and 1366, and it really is a monster of a cooler. Ever heard of the TRUE 120 (ThermalRight Ultra Extreme 120), the kickass HSF that pretty much destroyed everything until stuff like the IFX-14 and V10 came out? Mugen 2 matches TRUE in terms of performance, and its very cheap.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Question is, will it fit in your case? Your P182 comes out as 8.1inches deep while my NZXT Zero 2 comes out as 8.3 inches deep... however, I do have an inch (deep fan in the inside of the side of my case and the mugen 2 *still* fits. I think it may fit in your case!

Just my two cents.
May 13, 2009 2:01:00 AM

kufan64 said:
@htoonthura
Really? That's an interesting change of opinion. That's what I originally was thinking, but since i7 isn't too much better than current core 2 quads, I was thinking it might be a smarter move to get a little bit more life out of my current harware and wait for the next-gen processors to come out before getting any major upgrades.

Can you elaborate a little bit more on that?


i7 does run faster. it all depends on the type of apps and your needs. stock i7 runs faster than overclocked q6600 at 3.3.

if you do not oc, you can stick with stock cooler.

If i were you, i will either

1. stick with what you have or
2. sell the old parts and jump to i7.

I just do not want to spend at all on dead socket. The money you spend on 775 socket will be a waste. If you have a tight budget or you can wait a little longer, just stick with what you have. Your system is not that bad actually.

But, if you have to upgrade now and have a tight budget, then buy at least a good psu, cooler and p 35 chipset board. make sure you buy the parts (psu and cooler) that can be reused in i7 system.
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May 13, 2009 2:17:13 AM

hold out till the i5's arive me thinks - thats what im going to do

i too have a Q6600 rig (@3.5ghz) - dont worry, were up with the Phenom II's and what not and can beat an i7 in some benches - the rigs are fine for now ;) 
May 13, 2009 2:18:55 AM

@mlcloud
lol... relax, I'm not going to flat out ask you to do this for me... I just like to hear others opinions so I know I'm not doing anything stupid.
I have seen the TRUE 120... a true behemoth of a HSF if ever I've seen one... I'll need to check to make sure I've got the clearance, but that mugen 2 looks great, and it's compatible with both 775 and 1336... nice find. :) 

@htoonthura
I will be using my computer almost exclusively for gaming, with alot of internet surfing and some music listening thrown in. Me and you seem to think alike. Like I said, I originally didn't want to invest any more money on an outdated system. I bought the new HDD's and the case, and was going to buy a new PSU because they could all be used later when I upgraded. I bought the RAM because I only had 2x1GB Kingston economy RAM, it was cheap, and at the time, I thought I would be able to overclock my Q6600...
May 13, 2009 2:23:14 AM

@apache_lives
Do you happen to know anything in particular regarding the i5's?
Like I said earlier, I only know a little bit about them.
May 13, 2009 2:32:22 AM

kufan64 said:
@mlcloud
lol... relax, I'm not going to flat out ask you to do this for me... I just like to hear others opinions so I know I'm not doing anything stupid.
I have seen the TRUE 120... a true behemoth of a HSF if ever I've seen one... I'll need to check to make sure I've got the clearance, but that mugen 2 looks great, and it's compatible with both 775 and 1336... nice find. :) 

@htoonthura
I will be using my computer almost exclusively for gaming, with alot of internet surfing and some music listening thrown in. Me and you seem to think alike. Like I said, I originally didn't want to invest any more money on an outdated system. I bought the new HDD's and the case, and was going to buy a new PSU because they could all be used later when I upgraded. I bought the RAM because I only had 2x1GB Kingston economy RAM, it was cheap, and at the time, I thought I would be able to overclock my Q6600...



Only buy stuff that you need now. computer parts are cheaper and better. It will also be a waste when you buy stuff that you do not really need right now.

In your case, you do not need to buy psu and cooler if you stick to the current rig. Since you can not oc now, there is no need for a new psu or cooler. If you plan to change motherboard ( another 775) , then you would want to buy psu and cooler that can be reused in i7 rig. It is your call.
May 13, 2009 2:51:38 AM

If you sell your old parts for ~$200-$250, then an i7 system will be much cheaper. As it stands now, an i7 system with Motherboard/CPU/RAM is about ~$600-$700. It makes it that much cheaper.

A decent P45 motherboard is ~$140 for a Gigabyte UD3P. It's all what you want to spend. 775 is buy now keep for a few years. Socket 1366 will be here for a year or more so it is a better option if you upgrade frequently.

So basically, if you don't plan to upgrade for a few years you may be better off buying a new motherboard for $140 and upgrade when the REAL CPU comes out...."Sandy Bridge" or even "Ivy Bridge" in Q4 2010-Q4 2011. Google them if you are unsure about those name.

//Edited to make it easier to read
May 13, 2009 4:42:29 AM

Wow you guys, just wow. I can't thank you enough for all the information... I only posted this a few hours ago, and I've just been bombarded with great opinions and suggestions and information that have helped me to understand the situation so much better.

The possible root of my misunderstandings may come from the fact that I didn't fully understand modern chip manufacturing. I went from a Pentium 4 to my Q6600, which was a massive improvement, but that's because it was completely new technology. From what I was able to gather, Core i7 isn't so much new tech, as it is an upgrade/redesign of current Core 2 Quad processors, and an evolutionary stepping stone. (triple channeled DDR3, integrated memory controller, no FSB, etc.) It's better, sure, but it isn't the massive leap forward like I got from my jump from the Pentium 4. The massive leap forward that I am looking for will most likely be from the "Sandy Bridge" processor that apparently will use all new technology.

Have I at least grasped the general idea?
(God I hope so...)

If this is in fact the case, then I think I will upgrade and overclock my current rig and it should serve me well through 2010, about the time when "Sandy Bridge" should be headed to retail.

Here's what I plan to buy: (assuming I have correctly understood what I have learned)

Mobo: ??? (see below)
CPU HSF: ??? (see below)
PSU: Corsair 850TX

I could use some suggestions on good mobos and HSF's that are compatible with the rest of my hardware.

I looked into these, but I'd like some more suggestions:
Mobo:
Gigabyte UD3P (I think several posters have suggested this one... and it looks like it is probably the best value for the price of any 775 board on newegg...)
CPU HSF:
Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro (this thing has over 3,000 reviews... it has to be good by my logic. lol)
Mugen 2 (compatible with both 775 and 1336... also apparently a very nice cooler)
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May 13, 2009 4:58:01 AM

kufan64 said:
I find myself in a crappy situation. I am currently using the follwing PC for home use: (mostly for video games with a lot of internet browsing and some music listening thrown in)

CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4GHz Q6600 (no overclocking)
Mobo: Intel DP35DP
RAM: 2x2GB OCZ Platinum DDR2 800
HDD's: 1x WD Caviar Blue 500GB (for OS) and 2x WD Caviar Black 500GB (Raid 0, for applications/storage)
PSU: NSpire PSH650V
Video Card: EVGA 8800GT
Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS
OS: Windows Vista x64 (eventually I want to dual boot with XP)
Case: Antec P182



Not a terrible system, except for the PSU, which I plan to replace with a Corsair 850TX as soon as I have the $$$. The RAM, HDD's, and the case are all new. (I upgraded a few months ago)

I was planning to overclock it to bring out it's inner beast, and to keep me happy until i7's dropped in price, or until they released something better... but then I made a frustrating discovery. My motherboard isn't capable of overclocking... (sigh)

So now I have a choice to make, I can either purchase a new motherboard and a CPU cooler (the stock cooler probably won't be enough after I overclock it) for my current setup, or I can upgrade to an i7 920.


I'd already picked out the parts for this new PC below:

CPU: Intel Core i7 920 2.66GHz
Mobo: ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 X58
RAM: 3x2GB Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1333



Basically, I want to know what you think. Is it worth getting a new motherboard/CPU cooler for my current setup, or should I just count my losses and spring for the i7 gear?

PS: Please forgive me if I should have posted this in another forum. I didn't really know where it should go; seeing as how it mostly has to do with CPU's, I chose here.

Well the most logical option would be the new mobo + CPU Cooler...
If you are able to spend around $100, then get the CPU Cooler option, which was given by mcloud
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Adn instead of spending $140 on LGA 775, get this mobo with a single pcie slot...
Reason :
1. The $140 mobo does have 2 pcie slots but you have 8800GT and you cant SLI on that mobo...
2. This $80 mobo has very good OC options in BIOS and you can get the Q6600 to hit 3.2 to 3.4 with that CPU cooler...
3. This mobo and you graphics card can hold up until end of year, by which intel would launch new CPU(Mayb even AMD) and both nvidia and ATI would launch their new GPUs...So then upgrade the whole PC... "Resist the Temptation :p "
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

And for your setup theoretically your PSU should do fine even after you OC your CPU...But like you said the quality is not so good and it can cause stability issues...
So if you buy a new high quality PSU, it can be used for the future setup too...
May 13, 2009 5:51:23 AM

If you want high overclocks, then the Gigabyte P45 UD3P is a no brainer. However, you also needs a new CPU cooler if you plan to overclock.

Here is the motherboard. The Gigabyte P45 UD3P

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Here is the CPU cooler, which I personally own and any people will agree it is very good. It is a Xigmatek HDT-S1283

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

and the highly recommended retention bracket and it will also work for Socket 1366 which is what Core i7 uses.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

All of this comes out to $181.97 and is much cheaper than spending $600+ for marginal gains.
a b à CPUs
May 13, 2009 6:06:43 AM

^ Nice CPU cooler...

But I would again say spending $140 over that mobo when a $80 mobo can do the job, is not a good option...
Am not saying that the mobo is bad ...actually it is one of the best P45 out there...but as you want a temporary solution, then you should get a good cheap stable component that could do the job...
And I have given the reason for the same on my previous post...
May 13, 2009 6:40:47 AM

one-shot said:

All of this comes out to $181.97 and is much cheaper than spending $600+ for marginal gains.


It is not marginal gains. core i7 is a lot faster than q 6600. Performance limitation is on the user, not on the system. Of course you will see no performance gain between core i7 and q6600 when you are typing a letter.
May 13, 2009 6:45:10 AM

htoonthura said:
It is not marginal gains. core i7 is a lot faster than q 6600. Performance limitation is on the user, not on the system. Of course you will see no performance gain between core i7 and q6600 when you are typing a letter.


I was referring to the marginal gains for the difference in prices of both systems. He can spend ~$180 and have a great setup. The benefits of $400+ extra for an i7 would be marginal at best. Sure, i7 is faster in certain things. I'm actually getting an i7 system myself, but the extra cost isn't worth the benefit in this case.
May 13, 2009 6:59:11 AM

gkay09 said:
^ Nice CPU cooler...

But I would again say spending $140 over that mobo when a $80 mobo can do the job, is not a good option...
Am not saying that the mobo is bad ...actually it is one of the best P45 out there...but as you want a temporary solution, then you should get a good cheap stable component that could do the job...
And I have given the reason for the same on my previous post...


I would and will never recommend a P43 for overclocking. Remember, he wants to get the best value out of his system. He doesn't want a board that will give him a little overclock. He also has a 8800GT, and you are correct, he may not need the extra PCI-E slot.

The cheaper boards, such as the one you listed and the Gigabyte P45-UD3L, which is $94.99, only offer a 4 Pin CPU connector. I have a 4 pin CPU power connector on my P35-DS3L that is the predecessor to the P45-UD3L. It doesn't clock well with quad core CPUs and I can't imagine this being any different. The P45-UD3P has an 8 pin CPU Connector which can supply more current which will allow a higher overclock.

65nm Kentsfield CPUs are known to run very hot and in turn require more current than 45nm variations or dual core CPUs. The $80 board will not do what the $140 board will do so that argument is not valid

I stand by my previous suggestion. Anandtech.com tested the board and had awesome results. The facts don't lie and I respectfully disagree with you.

Edit*

Also, If you read his last post, he stated that he wants to try to wait until Sandy Bridge, which is due to be out Q4 of 2010. This is not temporary and the extra $60 is well worth it.
May 13, 2009 7:03:59 AM

Ok kufan64, I read through all the comments and didn't see anyone really ask the important question...what app on your system needs an upgrade?

You only listed 3: games, internet, music.

The last two are obviously fine on your current rig.

So games then. What resolution do you play at? What games? Depending on this I would rec possibly a psu upgrade and a video card upgrade. Both of which can also go into a new rig (though vid card will prob be outdated by then).

Just something to think about. I love new parts as much as anyone, but if you're on a budget, like me, you might only need the two parts I listed.

Maybe a 4870, 4890, GTX260/280, or 4870x2 could hold you off for another 9-12 months and make you feel like you got more out of your system. <-This is what I will be doing soon to extend my q6600. I'm also oced to 3ghz and run on 1920x1200, so I'm not on your stock speed and my current vid card suffers before my cpu at that res(4850).
a b à CPUs
May 13, 2009 7:32:13 AM

one-shot said:
I would and will never recommend a P43 for overclocking. Remember, he wants to get the best value out of his system. He doesn't want a board that will give him a little overclock. He also has a 8800GT, and you are correct, he may not need the extra PCI-E slot.

The cheaper boards, such as the one you listed and the Gigabyte P45-UD3L, which is $94.99, only offer a 4 Pin CPU connector. I have a 4 pin CPU power connector on my P35-DS3L that is the predecessor to the P45-UD3L. It doesn't clock well with quad core CPUs and I can't imagine this being any different. The P45-UD3P has an 8 pin CPU Connector which can supply more current which will allow a higher overclock.

65nm Kentsfield CPUs are known to run very hot and in turn require more current than 45nm variations or dual core CPUs. The $80 board will not do what the $140 board will do so that argument is not valid

I stand by my previous suggestion. Anandtech.com tested the board and had awesome results. The facts don't lie and I respectfully disagree with you.

Edit*

Also, If you read his last post, he stated that he wants to try to wait until Sandy Bridge, which is due to be out Q4 of 2010. This is not temporary and the extra $60 is well worth it.


^ Well I wont argues that the P43 mobo is better choice than the P45...

But I certainly cant agree with you on about the overclocking abilities of that P43 mobo...
If you check the customer reviews of that board, you can find users having overclocked their E5200 to 3.5GHz stable at 1.275v...
And in another forum, a member has his Q6600 overclocked @ 3.59GHz 1.39V
using Gigabyte P43 DS3L
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=600422

It is just how good you are with BIOS...It you get the settings right, then you can overclock stable on this board without problems...

And the about the power consumption, even the Q6600 has a 95W TDP, same as the Q9x00 and Q8X00 series...

And more over it will depend more on the stepping on his Q6600...If its not a GO stepping, even your $140 mobo cant do much to Oc that CPU...

And I feel that these arguments are pretty valid...
And I certainly don't feel $60 more cash is worth spending on that board for his NEEDS..., check that this is just a temporary solution for him...
If he was about to build totally new PC on the LGA 775 socket, even I would have suggested that P45 board...but not now...
May 13, 2009 8:56:25 AM

Q6600 is good enough after OC. So get a new motherboard and a good cooler.I7 doesn't seem much better than Core2
May 13, 2009 10:21:40 AM

Alright, even though my nick suggests that I am and will always be on the "green" side, I will try to help if you haven't already built the system :) . In the computer world, timing is everything. Even if you buy the top dog processor, it will already be old after six months. That is the reason why you should NEVER buy a processor that costs above 500$. At this time, an upgrade seems pointless because Intel is already whispering something about the new Nehalems. What could happen? You buy a processor for 300$ and the next day that same processor costs half the price. I would wait a little longer if I was in your skin. On the other side, your processor is very outdated, and although it achieves high overclock performance, that doesn't mean everything. You see, Intel's Core2Duo architecture is a bit messy. The greatest reason is that Core2's do not have L3 cache. Because of this, communication of the processor and the memory is a bit crippled on these, and that can sometimes cause stuttering in gaming even on the highest end processors. Intel has seen this and fixed it in the i7 architecture, so it shouldn't be a problem on i7's (although I didn't have a personal experience with these). Buying an Intel setup is always a gamble. Intel is very hard on innovations and, as I mentioned before, new tech can come out every day. But it seems that you can't go fully wrong with the i7 because the new platform should be future-proof. At last, have you considered buying and AMD system ;) ? I will do that, because I have Intel E4600. Going with a Phenom 955 on an AM3 board will give you killer performance in gaming while the new AM3 boards will stay in play probably for a long time. Anyway, I think I mentioned this in another article, but here are the conclusions:

Q6600 choice: Bad choice. This processor is very outdated and you probably wouldn't want to spend money on some coolers when new processors are in the corner. The lowest end i7 will kill this quad core, maybe even when it is downclocked.

I7 choice: A total gamble. Could be a perfect solution, but could be outdated soon because of Intel's aggressive policy. This processor will end any stuttering in games but may have problems on high resolutions. It is a gamble for gaming, but for compressing, video encoding and 3D rendering a bogeyman.

(Alternative) Phenom II choice: Probably a good choice if you are a serious gamer who wants performance, and not to be praised at work for his i7. It will bring nearly the same performance as the i7 in gaming, so if gaming is the only thing you do, go with it. I7 beats it in other stuff, though...

Hope I helped and good luck with a computer!
a b à CPUs
May 13, 2009 10:28:54 AM

^ Hmm... Well he has the Q6600...
a c 309 à CPUs
May 13, 2009 1:40:00 PM

If your most demanding application is gaming, I suggest that you sell your 8800GT, and replace it with something a couple of levels higher, such as a
GTS250/GTX260/GTX275.

If you feel that the Q6600 is holding you back, sell it on e-bay for about $150 and replace it with a E8500 for the higher clock speed. Very few games can make use of more than two cores.

Only go to the i7 if you will benefit from many cores.
May 13, 2009 3:40:58 PM

Alright... It would probably be too hard for me to address individual posts, so I'll just throw some stuff out there.

First of all I should clarify that the most intense thing I've probably put my computer through is playing Crytec games like Crysis or Far Cry 2 which demand a lot of out of both my CPU and my GPU. (they're very pretty afterall) I've been told before that my GPU isn't the problem, as my Q6600 at stock speeds is incapable of pushing the GPU to it's limit. Like I said before, I've recently become interested in SLI and multi-GPU configurations, but does multi-GPU even make a difference if a game isn't running with PhysX technology? I also have recently purchased a 24" Acer P243WAid LCD widescreen monitor that is capable of 1920x1200 resolution.

I should also remind everyone that I have an Antec P182 case, and it has a bottom chamber for the PSU. I check my temps every now and then just for curiosity's sake, and it seems to fluctuate between 50-60C depending on a lot of things, but I have all 3 of my fans set at their lowest settings. I have also had it recommended to me that I buy and install the optional 4th fan (an intake in front of the HDD's, I believe) to help keep everything cool.

I need to make it clear that I don't want to overclock my PC to it's breaking point. Sure, I want to push it, and make it work harder for me; but I don't want to stress it beyond it's capabilities. I've been told before that getting it to 3.0GHz carries nearly no risk if done correctly, and I assume it is safely capable of even more.

I realise that my quad core probably isn't much better for games than a dual core, but I didn't originally build this system. I have been personally making upgrades to it over the past few months, and then I hit the brick wall of realization that my board was incapable of OCing...

I now have 3 suggestions for HSF's: (in order of interest to me)
Mugen 2
XIGMATEK Dark Knight-S1283V
XIGMATEK HDT-S1283
(no one commented on the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro I linked to... does anyone have an opinion about it? Also my case doesn't have a window, so none of this has to look cool, as it won't be seen by anyone but me)

I also have 2 suggestions for a board: (in order of interest to me)
Gigabyte UD3P P45
Gigabyte UD3L P43
(I don't know which way to go here... You've both made very valid arguments... I hope with this added info we can all agree on what is best)
May 13, 2009 3:42:05 PM

gkay09 said:
^ Hmm... Well he has the Q6600...


I realize that. I just posted which choices are good and bad at this time. Either way, Q6600 is not my favorite...
May 13, 2009 3:53:34 PM

AMD4Life said:

I7 choice: A total gamble. Could be a perfect solution, but could be outdated soon because of Intel's aggressive policy. This processor will end any stuttering in games but may have problems on high resolutions. It is a gamble for gaming, but for compressing, video encoding and 3D rendering a bogeyman.



Wanna explain that FUD?
May 13, 2009 4:00:25 PM

kufan64 said:
Alright... It would probably be too hard for me to address individual posts, so I'll just throw some stuff out there.

First of all I should clarify that the most intense thing I've probably put my computer through is playing Crytec games like Crysis or Far Cry 2 which demand a lot of out of both my CPU and my GPU. (they're very pretty afterall) I've been told before that my GPU isn't the problem, as my Q6600 at stock speeds is incapable of pushing the GPU to it's limit. Like I said before, I've recently become interested in SLI and multi-GPU configurations, but does multi-GPU even make a difference if a game isn't running with PhysX technology? I also have recently purchased a 24" Acer P243WAid LCD widescreen monitor that is capable of 1920x1200 resolution.

I should also remind everyone that I have an Antec P182 case, and it has a bottom chamber for the PSU. I check my temps every now and then just for curiosity's sake, and it seems to fluctuate between 50-60C depending on a lot of things, but I have all 3 of my fans set at their lowest settings. I have also had it recommended to me that I buy and install the optional 4th fan (an intake in front of the HDD's, I believe) to help keep everything cool.

I need to make it clear that I don't want to overclock my PC to it's breaking point. Sure, I want to push it, and make it work harder for me; but I don't want to stress it beyond it's capabilities. I've been told before that getting it to 3.0GHz carries nearly no risk if done correctly, and I assume it is safely capable of even more.

I realise that my quad core probably isn't much better for games than a dual core, but I didn't originally build this system. I have been personally making upgrades to it over the past few months, and then I hit the brick wall of realization that my board was incapable of OCing...

I now have 3 suggestions for HSF's: (in order of interest to me)
Mugen 2
XIGMATEK Dark Knight-S1283V
XIGMATEK HDT-S1283
(no one commented on the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro I linked to... does anyone have an opinion about it? Also my case doesn't have a window, so none of this has to look cool, as it won't be seen by anyone but me)

I also have 2 suggestions for a board: (in order of interest to me)
Gigabyte UD3P P45
Gigabyte UD3L P43
(I don't know which way to go here... You've both made very valid arguments... I hope with this added info we can all agree on what is best)


From what I read in your posts I guess that money is not such a problem to you. Well then why not go with the board that has nice overclocking capabilities for your old processor with an x48 chipset? Those boards are very good in overclocking, if you want that: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

But seriously, wait for the new Nehalems. LGA775 is a socket that will soon be very outdated (even now there are no new boards), and you wouldn't see much difference anyway. You'll remember my words when you punch yourself for wasting precious money for nothing. So, buy an x58 chipset motherboard, and wait for stronger Nehalems (that is when the price of the current ones will drop). The maximum improvement you will see over your old board if you go with LGA775 is overclock (which can only cause you problems or minor increase in performance) and a bit smoother overall Windows performance. Please wait, I'm really trying to help and convince you that buying another LGA775 motherboard will lead you nowhere.
May 13, 2009 4:51:29 PM

I will ignore the post above. Anyway, it doesn't matter at all. I know very well what I am talking about and you can only convince me otherwise if you are an Intel employee. If you are, I am sorry sir, you know the best about your company. If you are not, chill up and shut up.
May 13, 2009 5:00:08 PM

I was just carefully reading my reply and the comment above, I choked while drinking coke and thought: "Who the hell am I proving my opinion to?" And I figured it out. A complete retard. I do not know what the hell are you trying to prove with that picture. You are not sure about what you are talking about, dude. I said, and for the damn last time: INTEL WILL SOON BE SHIPPING 32NM PROCESSORS IN THE END OF 2009 AND MAYBE IT WILL BE A WASTE TO BUY EARLY I7'S EVEN NOW. GET IT MAN. JUST GET IT.

PS: Or just get a cheap used brain in the nearest laboratory (I guess you Intel fans have money for everything).
May 13, 2009 5:09:53 PM

Oops, I thought you meant the 32nm chips will not be supported by the current infrastructure (which it will). But it looks like the LGA1366 Westmere part, the Gulftown, will be launched in 2010, rather than 2009.

With that being said, I still don't know why its too late to buy an i7. Afterall he does benefit greatly with Nehalem, and with the infrastructure in place, he can easily upgrade to Gulftown if he choose to.
May 13, 2009 5:41:43 PM

I think I'm learning more from this argument. lol

Core i7 and it's future replacement "Gulftown" both use LGA-1336 and they're considered the high-end CPU's for the Nehalem microarchitechture.

Core i5 and it's future replacement "Clarkdale" both use LGA-1156 and they're considered the mainstream CPU's for the Nehalem microarchitechture.

Is there any reason why a serious gamer shouldn't look into the i5/Clarkdale line? They have less cores, but modern games never take advantage of more than 2 right now anyway.

Information is hard to come by on the "Sandy Bridge" processor. I assume this is because Intel hasn't released a whole lot of information on it, but maybe I'm not looking hard enough.
May 13, 2009 8:32:01 PM

kufan64 said:
I think I'm learning more from this argument. lol

Core i7 and it's future replacement "Gulftown" both use LGA-1336 and they're considered the high-end CPU's for the Nehalem microarchitechture.

Core i5 and it's future replacement "Clarkdale" both use LGA-1156 and they're considered the mainstream CPU's for the Nehalem microarchitechture.

Is there any reason why a serious gamer shouldn't look into the i5/Clarkdale line? They have less cores, but modern games never take advantage of more than 2 right now anyway.

Information is hard to come by on the "Sandy Bridge" processor. I assume this is because Intel hasn't released a whole lot of information on it, but maybe I'm not looking hard enough.


Yeah ^^. Sorry for the language, both you and yomamafor1, but I get pissed off sometimes. Anyway, yes. It's sort of that as you said. Hope I helped in other comments though...
May 13, 2009 8:35:42 PM

yomamafor1 said:
Oops, I thought you meant the 32nm chips will not be supported by the current infrastructure (which it will). But it looks like the LGA1366 Westmere part, the Gulftown, will be launched in 2010, rather than 2009.

With that being said, I still don't know why its too late to buy an i7. Afterall he does benefit greatly with Nehalem, and with the infrastructure in place, he can easily upgrade to Gulftown if he choose to.


Alright, I guess it's settled then. Sorry man, I got pissed off just like I usually do ^^. But you didn't understand me. I know i5's will come in 2010, I just tried to recommend waiting for the new, improved process (32nm) in the last quarter of the year.
May 13, 2009 10:09:41 PM

So I've been doing research all day and have come to the following conclusion...

Upgrading to Core i7 is the way to go and here are my reasons for this decision:

1) The current technology my PC is running on is considered "dead." I am out of date as far as the world of technology goes. I cannot overclock my system, nor would it provide a great benefit anyway; simply delaying the inevitable upgrade, and making me spend more money.

2) Upgrading your critical components on the "tock" of Intel's development cycle ensures the longest lifespan of your core components. Since both the "tock" (new microarchitecture) and the following "tick" (new process tech) appear to fit the same socket, you may decide to upgrade your processor during the life of it's microarchitecture, (in this case Nehalem) while only spending money to replace the processor, and being able to keep the same mobo, and RAM (assuming you don't want to buy larger sticks)

3) Purchasing new technology at it's birth always ensures a sour experience. For example, you wouldn't want to buy a vanilla copy of Windows 7 the day it is made avaiable for purchase, as it likely will still have a number of issues and problems that were not spotted during development. This is not the fault of the maker, (Microsoft in this example) as they obviously cannot be expected to spot and fix every single bug and problem without actually making it available to the public. You would most likely wait until SP1 came out and the major problems have been addressed before you upgrade.

Money problems aside, I personally feel that I am in the perfect position to upgrade my PC to a Core i7 920. I strongly encourage anyone who disagrees with me to voice their opinion, as long as you can provide evidence and valid arguments as to why my reasoning is incorrect. I look forward to hearing what everyone thinks...
May 13, 2009 10:38:53 PM

kufan64 said:
So I've been doing research all day and have come to the following conclusion...

Upgrading to Core i7 is the way to go and here are my reasons for this decision:

1) The current technology my PC is running on is considered "dead." I am out of date as far as the world of technology goes. I cannot overclock my system, nor would it provide a great benefit anyway; simply delaying the inevitable upgrade, and making me spend more money.

2) Upgrading your critical components on the "tock" of Intel's development cycle ensures the longest lifespan of your core components. Since both the "tock" (new microarchitecture) and the following "tick" (new process tech) appear to fit the same socket, you may decide to upgrade your processor during the life of it's microarchitecture, (in this case Nehalem) while only spending money to replace the processor, and being able to keep the same mobo, and RAM (assuming you don't want to buy larger sticks)

3) Purchasing new technology at it's birth always ensures a sour experience. For example, you wouldn't want to buy a vanilla copy of Windows 7 the day it is made avaiable for purchase, as it likely will still have a number of issues and problems that were not spotted during development. This is not the fault of the maker, (Microsoft in this example) as they obviously cannot be expected to spot and fix every single bug and problem without actually making it available to the public. You would most likely wait until SP1 came out and the major problems have been addressed before you upgrade.

Money problems aside, I personally feel that I am in the perfect position to upgrade my PC to a Core i7 920. I strongly encourage anyone who disagrees with me to voice their opinion, as long as you can provide evidence and valid arguments as to why my reasoning is incorrect. I look forward to hearing what everyone thinks...


But I really do not get why did you post this topic when you see you are fully capable of thinking of it yourself... Besides that, I respect your opinion, and after doing some research myself, I must say I may have been a little wrong, but hey, it could happen. You buy it now, next day 100$ :0. Never mind, good luck with your build.
May 13, 2009 11:01:57 PM

Sounds like you're not on a budget, so then I think an i7 is a good choice for an upgrade of your cpu.

Your 8800 at 1920x1200 isn't enough, especially if you like AA and HIgh Settings which I'm guessing you do.(just curious whats the mem on your card 512?)

I'm still surprised no one on these forums has been urging you to upgrade your vid card with your soon to be new cpu...usually most replies on here are from machines built for gaming, from what I've seen.

Anyway, I'd get a GTX295 if you can, or a 4870x2. Without a vid card upgrade you're not going to see any huge difference in your gaming.



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