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Overclocking an AMD PII X4 965 vs i5 -760?

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September 2, 2010 7:06:59 AM

I'm a complete noob to overclocking. I will be putting together a new build this fall and these are two CPUs I have it narrowed down to. I was going to go with the AMD for sure until I saw the Micro Center 15 mins from me has the i5 760 for $170, which is quite the deal it seems.

First off, I don't intend to touch the vcore, at least not right away. So I'm going to be overclocking at stock voltage.

To my understanding, the only thing you need to do to OC the AMD CPU, is to go into the BIOS and change the clock multiplier. Now, the Intel seems a lot more tricky. Is it really that much harder to get a slight OC with the Intel? Can a noob such as myself accomplish it, or would it be beyond my grasp without prior OCing knowledge?

I've seen guides to OCing the I5 750, which I'd assume would be the same thing for the 760. However, the guides lose me, as they are not a step by step outline, and they don't seem to explain it in a way someone knew to OCing can grasp.


Eh....any advice or help? :lol: 
September 2, 2010 9:36:23 AM

I have the i5-750 and a Gigabyte motherboard. There is an easy overclocking Gigabyte utility that gets me up to 3.35Ghz that comes with the motherboard. No BIOS jiggery-pokery at all.

If you are buying a new motherboard too, check if there is an easy O/C utility included on their website. Some manufacturers such as MSI have switches on the motherboard for overclocking so they make it very easy.
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September 2, 2010 1:02:38 PM

If you want a good overclock, avoid the OC utilities. They only overclock by very small margins.

I just assembled a computer for someone yesterday with a Athlon X3 445. The asus OC utility puts the CPU at 3.3ghz from the stock 3.1. Not much of an OC so 5 minutes later I had the CPU running at 3.89ghz , a great 25% overclock with little voltage increase.

For the i5 760 you don't need to touch much except vcore and the BCLK and memory multiplier like any other OC. You could fiddle around with other voltages but they actually don't do much despite what people say.
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September 2, 2010 6:19:12 PM

I'm looking for an OC guide that does a step by step explanation. Not just what to do, but why you do it. If that makes sense.
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September 2, 2010 7:16:01 PM

MrMooky said:
I'm looking for an OC guide that does a step by step explanation. Not just what to do, but why you do it. If that makes sense.


Well the reason is rather simple, you overclock because you either need that extra speed or because you want to find out what your CPU is capable in terms of performance. My question is, what is this PC going to be used for?

Here is a great guide for the i5/i7 line of CPU's
http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/605848-i5-i7-lga-11...

Note: Don't even bother overclocking if you are going to leave all your voltages at stock, it doesn't work that way ;) 
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September 2, 2010 7:29:24 PM

OvrClkr said:
Well the reason is rather simple, you overclock because you either need that extra speed or because you want to find out what your CPU is capable in terms of performance. My question is, what is this PC going to be used for?

Here is a great guide for the i5/i7 line of CPU's
http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/605848-i5-i7-lga-11...

Note: Don't even bother overclocking if you are going to leave all your voltages at stock, it doesn't work that way ;) 



I know why you overclock. I was referring to you adjust (insert bios setting) to (insert reason why it helps the overclock). Something that goes a little more in depth then a list that says, change this to this, this to this, and this to this.


As far as not overclocking if you aren't going to change voltage, I've seen in plenty of the i5 750 OC guides, that you can get a pretty solid increase without messing with the voltage. Even if you only get an extra 200mhz without a voltage increase, it's still an increase over stock.
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September 2, 2010 7:41:12 PM

MrMooky said:
I know why you overclock. I was referring to you adjust (insert bios setting) to (insert reason why it helps the overclock). Something that goes a little more in depth then a list that says, change this to this, this to this, and this to this.


As far as not overclocking if you aren't going to change voltage, I've seen in plenty of the i5 750 OC guides, that you can get a pretty solid increase without messing with the voltage. Even if you only get an extra 200mhz without a voltage increase, it's still an increase over stock.


Correct, but nobody goes out to buy an i5/i7/AM3 system just to get an extra 200mhz out of it. There has to be a reason for the overclock, weather it’s for a higher frame rate in games or simply for bragging rights. If the PC meets or exceeds the users expectations at stock there is absolutely no reason to overclock.
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September 2, 2010 7:45:35 PM

I plan on gaming. I've seen in most guides you can get a pretty hefty OC on an i5-760 at stock voltage. The 200mhz was just an example. I do intend to adjust the voltage in the future, but I figured someone new to it shouldn't dive right into the deep end until he understands it better.
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September 2, 2010 8:06:04 PM

MrMooky said:
I plan on gaming. I've seen in most guides you can get a pretty hefty OC on an i5-760 at stock voltage. The 200mhz was just an example. I do intend to adjust the voltage in the future, but I figured someone new to it shouldn't dive right into the deep end until he understands it better.


It will depend on the resolution you play at, for instance if you purchase a 965 and your resolution is 1920x 1080p or higher chances are you do not have to bother with overclocking the CPU as 3.4Ghz is more than enough CPU power for any game out at the moment. Example, I used to play at 1680x 1050 and most of my games would under perform unless the CPU was at 3.7Ghz or higher, of course every configuration is different so the results will vary. Since I upgraded my screen not too long ago I am able to play my games at 3.4ghz without any frame loss whatsoever. For lower resolutions you will need a bump in speed to maintain a tolerable frame rate.
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September 3, 2010 12:13:23 PM

OvrClkr said:
It will depend on the resolution you play at, for instance if you purchase a 965 and your resolution is 1920x 1080p or higher chances are you do not have to bother with overclocking the CPU as 3.4Ghz is more than enough CPU power for any game out at the moment. Example, I used to play at 1680x 1050 and most of my games would under perform unless the CPU was at 3.7Ghz or higher, of course every configuration is different so the results will vary. Since I upgraded my screen not too long ago I am able to play my games at 3.4ghz without any frame loss whatsoever. For lower resolutions you will need a bump in speed to maintain a tolerable frame rate.

What you just said seems very counter intuitive to me. How is it that you need higher clock rates to play at lower resolutions? I have a 965 running at stock and can only run Crysis (see the rest of my spec below) at 1360 x 768 when on high settings so I was thinking about OCing it. What you've said has got me scratching my head!
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September 3, 2010 12:57:41 PM

At high resolutions the GPU is more of a bottleneck while at lower res. the CPU is more of a bottleneck.
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September 7, 2010 6:08:31 PM

So for gaming, would the i5 760 be the better choice, or the x4 965? Again, I only play games, so that's all that the choice would be based off of.
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September 7, 2010 6:39:31 PM

MrMooky said:
So for gaming, would the i5 760 be the better choice, or the x4 965? Again, I only play games, so that's all that the choice would be based off of.


In games you will not notice a difference when comparing both platforms, in the end it comes down to the GPU, not the CPU. At 1080p or higher both CPU's are neck to neck at stock clocks, at 1680x 1050 or lower the 760 significantly faster.
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September 7, 2010 6:47:58 PM

My issue with going the intel route, is they are soon to replace the 1156 LGA, where as I've heard the new AMD CPUs will work with the AMD 3 socket. I prefer Nvidia over ATI as it would be a 768mb gtx 460 or 5770 gpu for my budget range. Also, the 965 sounds a lot easier to overclock for a noob like myself.

Seems like I should pass up the 760 for $170 though. I'm really torn on which way to go.
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September 7, 2010 7:21:45 PM

LGA 1156 is on its way out by Q1 of next year, but this does not mean that you will be stuck when it comes to your upgrade path. On the other hand SB is around the corner so if you can wait a few more months you will have a few more options to choose from. Intel is known for swapping chipsets every 2 years or so, its how they do business =)

My suggestion is that you go the AM3 route if all you do is game, you will save $$ and your socket will be good for a few more years down the road. Now if the PC is going to be used to render/encode/bench then you should opt for the 760/SB hands down.
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September 7, 2010 7:54:23 PM

I strictly game. The other thing I noticed is that a good P55 board with at least dual 8x is quite a bit more expensive then an AMD 3 board with dual 8x for crossfire. The fact that a i5 750 goes for 150 at microcenter down the street is what keeps me second guessing the AMD route.
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September 7, 2010 8:05:46 PM

MrMooky said:
I strictly game. The other thing I noticed is that a good P55 board with at least dual 8x is quite a bit more expensive then an AMD 3 board with dual 8x for crossfire. The fact that a i5 750 goes for 150 at microcenter down the street is what keeps me second guessing the AMD route.


What GPU/GPU's will be used with this build?
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September 7, 2010 8:50:24 PM

If I go AMD it would most likely be 5770's, unless they prices on 5850 drop down a little bit by the time I go to build.

The intel build would use the 768mb GTX 460.

Both builds would start off with one gpu and adding the second a little time after.
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September 7, 2010 9:00:36 PM

If you get the 460 get the 1Gb if you are going crossfire the 760 will be less of a bottle neck, but a Phenom x4 overclocked with 2 5770s will play anything on highest settings at 1920x1080 and be alot cheaper than the intel option.
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September 7, 2010 9:17:45 PM

Simon, I would get the 1gb 460 but it's not in my price range that I am trying to stick with. Also, you can't crossfire 460's, it would be SLI, so your statement there is confusing me a little. I'll assume you meant SLI. On top of that, I don't believe the 760 or 965 would be a bottle neck at higher resolutions, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

AMD being the cheaper build is what keeps me looking that direction. That, and the crazy socket switching ways of intel.
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September 7, 2010 9:18:43 PM

Also, I'm seeing a lot of places that if you intend to overclock, the 955 would be the better option than the 965.
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September 7, 2010 9:22:54 PM

MrMooky said:
Simon, I would get the 1gb 460 but it's not in my price range that I am trying to stick with. Also, you can't crossfire 460's, it would be SLI, so your statement there is confusing me a little. I'll assume you meant SLI. On top of that, I don't believe the 760 or 965 would be a bottle neck at higher resolutions, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

AMD being the cheaper build is what keeps me looking that direction. That, and the crazy socket switching ways of intel.


Correct, at higher resolutions it will depend on the GPU. It all comes down to a flip of a coin in your case, clock for clock Intel is faster than AMD (hence why the 750 @ 2.66Ghz is as fast as a 965 @ 3.4Ghz give or take). Try configuring both platforms and comparing costs just to see what you can come up with ;) 
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September 7, 2010 9:24:49 PM

How would you compare the CF 5770 vs SLI 768mb GTX 460?
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September 7, 2010 9:25:32 PM

I've always had Nvidia cards. Makes me hesitate to try somethign new with ATI.
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September 7, 2010 9:32:29 PM

Individually the 768Mb 460 is similar in performance to the 1Gb 5830 and since SLi tends to scale better than crossfire the 460s will be better than 2 5830s which are obviously better than 2 5770s. Make sure you have good cooling for 2 x 460s though.
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September 7, 2010 9:33:55 PM

Forget about the 5770, its not even in the same bracket as the 460. You also want to make sure you get the 1Gb version if you do decide to go with the 460. The 5830 is comparable to the 460 not the 5770 =)
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September 7, 2010 9:37:34 PM

I've thought about the 5830, but I keep hearing bad things about them. Such as they are just a broken version of the 5850. Would there be a 5830 card you would suggest?
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September 7, 2010 9:43:07 PM

MrMooky said:
I've thought about the 5830, but I keep hearing bad things about them. Such as they are just a broken version of the 5850. Would there be a 5830 card you would suggest?


Nope, the only AMD card i can recommend is the 5850 which is nicely priced at around 260.00/270.00$ ATM. And yes the 5830 is a crippled 5870 with half the RoP's @ around 200.00$.


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September 7, 2010 9:54:01 PM

Check out http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/2010-gaming-graphi... unfortunately the 460SLi is not on it. It does show that the more you spend the less FPS for your cash you get. Also remember the Radeon 6xxx series will be here this year (expected) so you could wait or it could be a good time to get a bargain on your second 5xxx series. Thats what I did when I got 2 x 4870s which can max out any game I have at 1920x1080.
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September 7, 2010 10:07:25 PM

260-270 is a bit more than I would like to spend on a GPU. Not too keen on the 5830 being a crippled 5870 either. The release of the 6000 series doesn't guarantee an immediate price drop either simon, as mousemonkey so rudely pointed out.
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September 7, 2010 10:16:49 PM

Well if the choice is between the 760 + 2 x 460s or a 955BE + 2 x 5770s then its really just a matter of how much you want to spend. My best educated guess is that on average the 760 + 2 x 460s will give you around 20-25% more FPS on average though it will vary by game & resolution massively and if someone has some actual benchmarks to compare I could be very wrong (though actual bench marks will only for the games they are on).
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September 7, 2010 10:30:36 PM

Again, if I got the 460, it would be the 768mb version. Would you still estimate that around 20-25% more FPS then CF 5770s?
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September 7, 2010 11:03:49 PM

Yea, a 760 + 460's SLI would best the AMD system but it would also cost more since the 460's are at around 200.00$ a piece vs. the 5770's that can be found for around 140.00$. I think the most logical comparison would be dual 5830's vs. dual 460's (768mb). And even then the 460's will still come out in front due to their awesome scalability (SLI).

Chart shows 5830CF nipping at the toes of the 460's SLI 768mb in BC2:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-460-sli-revie...

The 5830's get clobbered in Dirt2 :
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-460-sli-revie...

In Metro they are EQUAL :
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-460-sli-revie...

Of course at lower resolutions the outcome vastly differs so make sure that you will be running 2 card's at 1080p or higher.
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September 7, 2010 11:20:04 PM

Hmmm, I seem to be between a rock and a hard place on this one. I can either get 5770's which are inferior and under the $200 budget I'm on for a gpu. Or, I could get the gtx 460 768mb and go with intel, which has already stated the LGA 1156 is a thing of the past. The only other thing I can think of is getting an AM3 socket board that supports SLI and get the 460s with the 955.

Though, I'm not aware of a quality AMD SLI board. From what I've heard, there is but a few, and they aren't very good.


:( 
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September 7, 2010 11:33:11 PM

Also, you said the 5830 has half the RoPs. What are RoPs?
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September 7, 2010 11:43:38 PM

It depends, I had no issues with dual 250's paired with an AM2+/AM3 Asrock 780a. If anything I fell in love with that setup, no hiccups, nada. But everyone's opinion is different when it comes to AMD + Nvidia config's.

The ROP's perform the transactions between the relevant buffers in the local memory - this includes writing or reading values, as well as blending them together. In other words, the more the better.

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September 8, 2010 12:06:06 AM

Looking to get one in about a week and a half. Hopefully I can make up my mind by then.
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