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4th core of Athlon X3 440 and Temperature

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September 24, 2010 12:10:19 AM

Based on this article (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-pc-build-a-p...) i built an almost identical system, just improved ram to 4gb (patriot), HD (750gb green WD) and put a 500w coolermaster psu instead of 460.

I was able to unlock the 4th core with no trouble at all but although it seems stable (and IDENTICAL CPUID - bellow - as the print posted in the article after OC) my idle temperature is of 41ºC and full load 60-64ºC, im running prime95 and so far so good (1h) but im a bit affraid of temperatures. What do you guys think, too high? Im using stock cooler and 2 intake fans + 1 exhaustion fan.




I read i should aim at 55ºC max load. No can do with the OC proposed on the article on my machine... Although they claim " Even stock-clocked socket temperatures during load testing approached 60 degrees Celsius" i dont know what to think... 64ºC is beyond "approach" and 41ºC idle feels weird. Need insights! Are the temperatures ok?

Thanks in advance.

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September 24, 2010 6:48:32 AM

I would buy an after market cooler but I would say
just try not going over 62C...that would be the real max...58C is still ok...
So either underclock a little or get an after market cooler...
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September 24, 2010 12:42:59 PM

+1 to the above
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September 24, 2010 2:28:41 PM

I also built a new computer with a x3 440 Rana, successfully unlocked the fourth core and with the stock hsf, had a maximum temperature of ~64 degrees Celcius when using the Prime 95 torture test. Like you said, a lot of people say that when overclocking these cpus, you should buy a new heatsinkfan because you need to keep your maximum temperature under load to 55 degrees Celcius MAX if you plan on running the computer overclocked 24/7 and want it to last. I went out and bought a Thermaltake Contac 29 (the slightly better coolermaster hyper 212+ was out of stock) and it reduced my maximum temperature by a lot and I am now running all four cores at 3.535ghz with a maximum load temperature of ~55 degrees Celcius and a maximum CPU voltage of 1.476v (it goes up to this from 1.44v when the cpu is at 100% load). I idle at ~41-42 degrees Celsius.
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September 24, 2010 4:37:21 PM

Ok, so buying a new sinkfan kit depends on:

a) your processor TDP and b) you case internal room, right?

My x3 440 at stock conditions runs at 106,88W and at 132,5W when OC.
My case is a mid-tower Coolermaster Elite 310 (acrylic side)

I was looking at coolermaster TX3 (92mm fan) and 212+ (120fan) , the tx3 is said to be ideal for the 95w CPU's and seems like the 212+ for 130w. But im affraid 212+ wont fit my case and could be overly noisy.

Do you guys think the TX3 would be enough to reduce my 64ºC load to near 55ºC when it is at 132,5W as it is suppose to be better than stock heatsink and fan?

Thanks again guys.
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September 24, 2010 10:11:03 PM

i have my 445 unlocked and play games with it oc to 3.5 temps are 50-55c tops after a few hours of starcraft. i couldnt figure out prime and how to get it working for some reason so i said screw it. your original temps seem about the same as mine though i sit around 40 idle give or take a few degrees on a stock cooler
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September 24, 2010 11:32:31 PM

stop obsessing on temperatures. My E6600 has run with stock cooler/paste, normal load at 65-70C seen it go to 85C(TPD is 72C i think, maybe a faulty sensor, heatsink only feels lukewarm), and it's still running strong, after 4years. And from what i read around here, 4years is long to own a CPU. no worries, keep on gaming instead of worrying about your component temperatures. Only worry if you believe the heatsink had lifted from the cpu, or it begins to underclock.

harddrives on the other hand you should worry about, try to keep temps under 40C at all times, else they will die fast on you.
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September 25, 2010 4:35:17 AM

I unlocked a 445 and stuck a CM TX 3 on it and it stays cool. I didn't OC it though, just left it at 3.1. Idles at 30 or so, maxes out around 48C
Anybody think its weird that his L3 didn't open up? My 445 is showing L3 at 6MB. IS the 440 a different core??
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September 25, 2010 10:25:43 AM

440 is more likely to be the porpus core instead of denab so no l3 cache on most of em that unlock. if i remember right it has to be stepping 3 or a certain revision for it to have l3 cache? got all that crap mixed up havent read about it since i put my system together. odd that it reads as a denab and phenom still though just noticed that. do read as porpus and just a plain quad core athlon or does it always say denab and phenom even if theres no l3
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September 25, 2010 11:53:25 AM

g048989h said:
I unlocked a 445 and stuck a CM TX 3 on it and it stays cool. I didn't OC it though, just left it at 3.1. Idles at 30 or so, maxes out around 48C
Anybody think its weird that his L3 didn't open up? My 445 is showing L3 at 6MB. IS the 440 a different core??


Actually the previous poster may be right about the core, but I have seen plenty of unlocked CPU's that didn't unlock the L3 cache. that is not unusual.

The TX3 should be sufficient for mild overclocking. Personally I don't overclock on stock heatsinks. And I believe that for a day to day overclock, you really don't want to take Phenom II and Athlon II over 55C. 62C is the max for these processors. You don't want to run it like that all day long.
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September 25, 2010 4:09:12 PM

It shows Deneb after OC on CPUID but EVEREST recognizes it as PROPUS, and propus as mentioned before has no L3.

Weird thing is that OC'd from 3.0mhz to 3.2mhz, with 4th core unlocked and undervolted a bit from motherboard auto voltid, i have a cooler idle temperature 36-38ºC instead of 39-41ºC AND idle voltage at 1.36v instead of 1.44-1.46v (stock), which is above the 1.425 described as safe for this amd chip (WEIRD dont you think?).

I tried running Prime 95 with stock conditions undervolted to the same 1.325 and got an error before 20min, the same 1.325 OC with 4 cores went smooth for more than an hour, again, WEIRD, (didnt test more because i'll wait for a cooler to be installed). Full load temperatures on both are similar, stock seems to go to 62ºC and OC to 64ºC. I'll keep it OC as it seems more in the parameters it should be than stock (+ is faster), buy a cooler and let it be. When i test it i'll come back with the results.

Thanks all

Ah in case someone wonders, local temperature is 25ºC at the moment.
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September 25, 2010 5:30:04 PM

personally i dont find a need for an all day overclock. does your mobo have the option to use a program in windows for it? example my asrock 870 has an overclock program in windows that i can just bump up my multiplier for oc speeds during gaming and drop it back down for general use without having to mess with the bios
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September 25, 2010 8:02:45 PM

skervy said:
personally i dont find a need for an all day overclock. does your mobo have the option to use a program in windows for it? example my asrock 870 has an overclock program in windows that i can just bump up my multiplier for oc speeds during gaming and drop it back down for general use without having to mess with the bios


The newer Athlon II and Phenom II should be able to use cool and quiet and overlcock. So if you overclocked say to 3.2-3.4Ghz for example, during idle and low workloads it would downclock to save energy and wear and tear on the system, then it would increase speed for gaming or whatever. This type of dynamic overclocking is what manufacturers are going to as well with turbo clock, etc.
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September 25, 2010 9:29:37 PM

i was not aware of that thanks lol that explains why my clock speeds would go down to 800 when i didnt know why. i disabled it or something though id guess cause it stopped doing it when i started playing with the bios
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September 26, 2010 5:05:09 AM

skervy said:
i was not aware of that thanks lol that explains why my clock speeds would go down to 800 when i didnt know why. i disabled it or something though id guess cause it stopped doing it when i started playing with the bios


Yep, that's right it was cool and quiet that was lowering the frequency and voltages. Dynamic clocking is where were all headed, no doubt about it. As a veteran overclocker, I have always killed cool and quiet because I am much more interested in performance than saving energy. Also it almost guaranteed a better overclock, but that is not the case anymore. At least that is what I believe from the articles here on toms, Anandtech and other sites. I still have it turned off on my power rig, but turned on on my laptop.

I think Cool and quiet is one of those settings that you need to turn off for core unlocking, now that I think about it. I imagine that isn't the case with the newer motherboards and their hardware unlocking tools.
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September 26, 2010 7:35:19 AM

i remember something about it and the c1 halt state thingy that was why i turned it off now that i think about it. but i think it was just to get it going and once you had everything good to go with your oc it was ok to enable it again. not sure if it works while unlocked and oc but ill read around some more on it later when i get home
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September 27, 2010 4:27:33 AM

Bought coolermaster TX3 and another fan (Zalman ZM-F2 Plus) to do a push and pull setup, awaiting them to do more testing.

Meanwhile here is where i stand:

validation link: http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=1409046

While i wait for the cooler :sleep:  i went looking for my memory specs and found out that my MB(Asrock M3A770DE) was OC'ing my memories (Patriots PSD32G13332 2x2GB) on auto, lowering every single timming. I read i should keep stock timmings when OC'ing and after stable tinker with them, so i went and changed them manually to SPD provided by everest and CPUID at the memory max speed (667mhz) and set voltage of chipset dram to 1.48v as patriots states its 1.5 (was either 1.48 or 1.53 on the MB). But still MB overvolts it to 1.67-1.71 (hwmonitor - pic above VIN5 and VIN6). Is it standard? No matter if i keep it on auto or change manually those values wont change. And by the way what do you guys think of the OC so far?

Cheers
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September 27, 2010 3:51:36 PM

nice....I wanted to post a reply earlier but couldn't...
I was gonna say don't worry, the cooler will fit...I bought a cooler master v8 and
I thought it wouldn't fit but it did...it fit perfectly fine in my mid tower...

and doped, no offense but you are wrong about not fussing about temps...
you have an intel...if they get hot they keep working fine...they don't die...if intels get too high they just start slowly disabling things on the core and end up working slower until they cool doen to a more optimal temperature...then they enable all the stuff again and work fine....
AMDs on the other had don't do that...they will slowely die if they're too hot...so with amds you have to worry about temps a lot more...also the hotter an amd the harder it is to overclock it...that's why it's so easy to overclock an intel to 4ghz on air and a lot harder on amd...anyway, it's verry important to watch the temps of your amd...
I hope amd fixes all of their issues with the bulldozer release...but they seem to be happy and excited with the bull so I'm guessing it's gonna be something really nice...
I'm gonna buy the bulldozer when it comes out...I'm sure it will hold up very well to the current Lynnfield and bloomfield i7s...I am however wondering how it will stand up to intels upcomming sandybridge....

ayway, brosso keep us informed on what you get your cooler...wanna see how high an overclock you get...
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September 30, 2010 5:33:43 PM

So... I got the TX3 in push and pull (although my thermal paste spread is no to be trusted. Had to remove and re-insert cooler and didnt bother to remove and reapply paste... Hellor air bubbles!)

The highest stable i could get was 3,500mhz on both 3 and 4 cores.

on 3 cores:

3,500mhz (14 x 250)
1,3850v (on MB)
1,41v idle
1,46v load
37ºC idle
51ºC load

tested 10 hours on Prime95, no errors or anything


on 4 cores:

3,500mhz (14 x 250)
1,4125v (on MB)
1,44v idle
1,49v load
38ºC idle
56ºC load

CRAPPY test of 20 min on Prime95 (requires more stability testing, although USUALLY, the 1st 20min for me set the tone if it will work or not, so dont trust much this config yet...)

SO i am considering keeping it at 3 core configuration because i can keep better track of temperatures and they look pretty good as they are. On 4 cores 56ºC is still ok but the max voltage to the processor should be 1,425 was very close to it on motherboard and it overvolts to 1,49 on loading which i dont really know if its safe. The max voltage is relative to what you set into the MB or to what actually it receives? Because if so even the 3 cores config exceed it on loading.

I'll be looking for the 3,375mhz that will consume less power overall and that consumes less than 1,425 on load on both 3 and 4 cores now. Probably safest route.

Cheers.
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September 30, 2010 9:46:10 PM

i thought you werent really suppose to go over 1.4v it could be 1.45 i forget
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October 1, 2010 12:10:49 AM

So anyone knows for sure if max stated voltage by AMD is for max load or voltage set on bios?
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October 1, 2010 1:02:21 AM

im confused it shouldnt go up and down should it?
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October 1, 2010 1:42:31 PM

Core Unlocker on my Asus M4A87TD/USB3 seemed to do the trick on my X3 440 I recieved today, the fourth core did seem to be faulty and core unlocker detected this but it did unlock the L3 cache.

Played a few hours of Bad Company 2 and GTA4 with no issues and ran all the CPU benchmarks on sandra all without cause for concern.
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October 2, 2010 12:22:18 AM

So as i said, went for the safest route. Gave as most voltage i was willing to give for the highest mhz it would allow me on 3 cores. And oc'd memories too (i wasnt gonna be satisfied with only cpu...)

Final 3 core OC:

3300mhz (15x220)
idle 1.392v
load 1.424 (hehe bellow 1.425)
idle 37ºC
load 50ºC
NB 2200mhz
HT 1980mhz

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=1415512

10h prime95 no errors.

I think i'll let it be like that, pretty good numbers within AMD's voltage and temperature margin. It is a 10% oc CPU and NB. I also tightened my memories timings to 5-5-5-15 @440mhz (1:2, FSB:D RAM).

Its not the 4 core oc setting i intended originally, but playing prime95 for way too many hours can lead to a loose screw on ones mind (with all reboots, BSODS, errors...). I need an OC break lol.

All in all thats it, what you guys think of final result?
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October 2, 2010 3:12:50 AM

not too bad...but personally I think you could be able to tweak it out
to be clocked a little higher...I have a phenom II X2 550 unlocked into
a phenom II x4 B50 and I'm able to run it 3.8 stable...
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October 2, 2010 4:57:36 AM

Heya videl, with both 3 and 4 cores the higher stable clock i could get to (at least with my OC knowledge) was 3.5mhz but it demanded more voltage than i felt comfortable giving (around 1,46v for 3c and 1.49v for 4c, load values). On this MB every voltage set on bios is OVERvolted. Example: If i set to 1,36v it will be like +0.4v on idle and another +0.4v on load. So the "playsafe" of trying to respect 1.425v max voltage got me limited to where i am right now. If i went up to values closer to 1.425 on bios probably i could have achieved such high clocks but as i intend to make this PC last i dare not favor electron mitigation... As i have read around, max voltage declared by amd is for max operating voltage and not the one set on bios, so thats why i stopped @3.300mhz. Even when i tried 3.375mhz it went beyond 1.425v... What i can try later on is to see if this same config is stable with 4th core unlocked (without messing with any voltage) and as i said in last post i dont want to play prime95 game of error/boot/bsod for a while, its time consuming.

PS. Auto settings blows, the mb on auto makes the processor go sky high on voltages even at stock idle, the mb sets it at 1.425v on bios @ stock :ouch:  . Either the MB is crazy or my processors batch looves some volts.

Cheers
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October 7, 2010 3:46:25 PM

you're probably right about it being the mobo or the cpu batch...
Yeah if this is the highest you can get it without compromising the life and safety of this cpu then it's good at these settings...keep it that way, but you should still try and see if it would be stable on all 4 cores...
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October 7, 2010 8:28:16 PM

4th core needs a bit more volts @ 3.300mhz than 3 cores. Maybe if i take it to 3.1-3.2ghz i could get to 1.425max load with 4 cores. Even 3 cores with 3.375 mhz goes beyond the max. What i've been trying now is to OC the RAM from 667 to 733 to get the whole pc 10% OC.

PS. Do you usually overclock with SYNC or ASYNC mode?
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October 7, 2010 9:23:12 PM

async only when doing big benches...
it varies with me...i turn it on I turn it off...
not much difference in games, I'll tell you that...
but there is some difference when benching...
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October 8, 2010 2:40:28 AM

Ya i've read reports of benchs being favored by SYNC mode, but also heard that as SYNC overclocks PCI-E there is a tendency to data corruption overtime, specially if one goes beyond 112mhz (default is 100mhz) and to blow your VGA's capacitors overtime. Therefore any overclock beyond FSB 224 (in my processors case) would be risky in terms of windows, vga's lifetime and/or file corruption... There you go, either favor benchs or system integrity (tough choice uh? haha). So im trying to go ASYNC independent of the FSB i choose... Dont know if its the right choice but probably safest. Do you have an opinion on that Videl ?

And btw im trying, following your sugestion, to achieve 4c stability within AMD's voltages now (with memory OC too). My "final" OC setup is running on prime95 (Blend) right now (i'll post after 10h). So far no errors... Fingers crossed. :sweat: 

4cores
3210mhz (214x15) 1,35v (MB)
2140mhz NB 1,18v
1926mhz HT
ASYNC mode (100mhz PCI-E)
RAM @ 713mhz 7-8-7-20 1.59v (from 667mhz 9-9-9-24 1.5v)
1,38 (idle)
1,42 (max load)
36ºC idle
52ºC load

Cheers
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October 8, 2010 4:05:48 PM

Yeah you're probably right...
what I would do in your case is go async and see how it goes...and you're doing that...
if it's safer then it's a good bet that it's a good choice as long as everything is stable... ;) 
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October 9, 2010 2:47:02 AM

Failed @core #3 after 8h24min testing (always near 9h i have a fail when testing "almost" stable new oc's, starting to distrust any prime95 test bellow 10 hours).

Im bumping NB and RAM voltages a bit, if it fails again i'll revert into working with 3 cores. Cant increase cpu's voltage cause although 1.365v works with 3c with 4 cores it overvolts to 1.432v (slightly above max 1.425v), gotta draw a line somewhere or i'll keep pushing forever lol.

Gotta hate the fact that tomshardware could oc same chip with same mobo @ pretty much same conditions with only 1.325 volts and im with 1,35v getting errors... Each chip is unique indeed.

Will keep you posted
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October 9, 2010 3:46:35 PM

Finally, stability reached. 12:45h prime95, no errors.

4cores
3210mhz (214x15) 1,35v (MB)
2140mhz NB 1,2v
1926mhz HT
ASYNC mode (100mhz PCI-E)
RAM @ 713mhz 7-8-7-20 1.65v (from 667mhz 9-9-9-24 1.5v)
1,384 (idle)
1,416 (max load)
36ºC idle
52ºC load (TX3 cooler, 1 fan - tried push and pull but was more noise than i was prepared for :lol:  )
TDP 135 W


Thats it, the max i could get respecting AMD's safe voltages and undervolted from MB for 4 cores.
For 3 i could get 3300mhz with a bit more voltage 1,36v and still within safe range.

For everyone who wants to overclock x3 440 within safe voltages (1,425v max load voltage) and safe temperatures (55ºC max load temperature) there you go a whole post dedicated to that.

I went round and around only to find that the conditions provided by Tomshardware article initially posted were the closest to the ideal. In the end i only needed a bit more voltage and could oc my memories with a bit more tight timmings.

I'd like to thank everyone who followed this thread and answered, specially videl for the frequent tips and the advice to buy an aftermarket cooler (which i did).

Cheers all

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October 9, 2010 3:56:25 PM

Best answer selected by brosso.
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October 10, 2010 12:04:26 AM

lol...congrats brosso! :D 
and thanks for thanking...lol...
stay in touch with us and post here once in a while...
and if you want you can follow me on my site (in my profile info)
where we are going to soon post guides for reaching stability
(although you already reached stability), and other things...
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!