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NVIDIA GTX 275 Bait and Switch?

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March 27, 2009 9:31:37 PM

Industry sources are saying that NVIDIA is partaking in some rather unsavory business practices with their upcoming GeForce GTX 275. The sources say that the review samples that are being sent to reviewers are GTX 275's based off of the GTX 285 ASIC, while the ones that will ship to customers from board partners are GTX 275's based off the GTX 260 ASIC.

Of course, the GTX 285 and GTX 260 are basically identical chips that are just binned differently (cluster of 24 shaders has been disabled on the 260 Core 216), so this is not expected to result in a big difference. However, if it is true, it does bring to light that NVIDIA is sending different cards to reviewers, who will influence consumer decisions, while the consumers would not actually be getting the same exact thing.

I kind of feel that while its not too big of a deal and shouldn't make a difference when all is said and done, but if there really are two different things out there then that is kind of disturbing. It also leads me to believe that NVIDIA originally intended to use the 285 ASIC method for the 275, but could not sustain the production so they went with a different, maybe cheaper method. It is kind of like they were going to take a 285 and make it worse, but instead will be taking a 260 and making it better.

thoughts?

More about : nvidia gtx 275 bait switch

March 27, 2009 10:01:45 PM

So its like instead of making a car from underpower'd v8 model, they are switching to a overpowered v6? Maybe the result would be less ability of overclock for the people buying the cards?
a b U Graphics card
March 27, 2009 10:02:21 PM

Funny you bring this up as I had someone mention this to me as well. I generally don't like to bring things like this up without more sources. But today I have seen you mention it and another to me personally yesterday.

Obviously the easiest way to verify will be after launch and comparing review cards on similar testbeds to production cards but at that point the damage is done already no? If Nvidia really does pull this off than this is super shady. Might be a situation where reviewers should even go in after the fact and test out retail cards on the same testbeds to verify numbers.

This sounds even worse than the whole "rebranding" debacle if this turns out as fact.
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March 27, 2009 10:04:22 PM

the 285 has more memory bandwidth than the 275 as well
March 27, 2009 10:23:40 PM

anarchy4sale said:
So its like instead of making a car from underpower'd v8 model, they are switching to a overpowered v6? Maybe the result would be less ability of overclock for the people buying the cards?


haha that's a good way to put it i guess... but both of the different versions would still end up having 240 shaders and identical specs ultimately i would assume
March 27, 2009 10:24:32 PM

This is not their first time. They should be sued. I smell class action. Lawyers?
a b U Graphics card
March 27, 2009 10:27:58 PM

There is something funny going on with Nvidia's top end gpus. Maybe the yields are really bad or something. We heard about the lack of gtx295's before, now this. A story on the inq said the gtx275 would be released with lower clocks than were being bandied around the web.

Something smells a bit fishy yes, but it's Nvidia so we're getting used to it.
a b U Graphics card
March 28, 2009 1:11:56 AM

jennyh said:
There is something funny going on with Nvidia's top end gpus. Maybe the yields are really bad or something. We heard about the lack of gtx295's before, now this. A story on the inq said the gtx275 would be released with lower clocks than were being bandied around the web.

Something smells a bit fishy yes, but it's Nvidia so we're getting used to it.


Good point on the yields, I forgot about those questions regarding the 295. The 285 seems to have plenty of stock however so the question is why do this now? As if they are concerned that the 275 won't stack up favorably to the 4890 if it were based on the 260 so they cherry pick these review samples just to look better initially.
March 28, 2009 1:13:15 AM

From what I understand the 275 is a single core of the 295.
a b U Graphics card
March 28, 2009 1:38:39 AM

chef7734 said:
From what I understand the 275 is a single core of the 295.
It isn't, thats what we are saying. The review samples are 285 cores and the retail boards are expected to be 260 216 chips.
a b U Graphics card
March 28, 2009 1:47:34 AM

Jaysin said:
Good point on the yields, I forgot about those questions regarding the 295. The 285 seems to have plenty of stock however so the question is why do this now? As if they are concerned that the 275 won't stack up favorably to the 4890 if it were based on the 260 so they cherry pick these review samples just to look better initially.


It's impossible to second guess what Nvidia might be thinking tbh. :p 

The 285's seem to have enough stock, but the 295's have been scant. Nvidia will sell a lot more 285's than they do 295's. They have to keep those 285's in stock because of that. The best chips go towards 285's - it's not rocket science.

So now they release the 275...and suddenly nobody wants the 285's? That's just money down the drain for them. Who would buy a gtx275 that wouldn't buy a gtx285 anyway?

The margins at the top are so small, yet Nvidia are charging a premium at every step. The 275 simply does nothing for Nvidia. Where does it sit in price/performance? Is it faster and cheaper than a 280? If so the 280 becomes dead instantly. Is it faster than a 260 but slower than a 280? If so, who is gonna pay more for it compared to an HD 4890?

It is a card with no reason to exist. Nvidia can't release it because they are already bleeding cash on 260's. The last thing they want to do is release a slower card than the 4890, costing more, but less than their flagship 285gtx.

Nvidia cannot compete with ATI on price/performance. I wouldn't be surprised if the 275 got pulled altogether and Nvidia went full out on 40nm instead.

That's just imo btw :D 
a b U Graphics card
March 28, 2009 2:20:56 AM

I know its tough finding a 295, but just look how good theyre selling. How many reports have we seen where the 295 is doing better than the 4870x2?
My point is, theres tons of nVidia buyers out there, and theyll buy any bone thrown their way from nVidia, so dont count the 275 out yet
a b U Graphics card
March 28, 2009 2:45:11 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
I know its tough finding a 295, but just look how good theyre selling. How many reports have we seen where the 295 is doing better than the 4870x2?
My point is, theres tons of nVidia buyers out there, and theyll buy any bone thrown their way from nVidia, so dont count the 275 out yet


We have to look at the numbers with a sense of perspective though.

The very top end cards dont sell anything like the lower enthusiast cards like the 260/4870. In fact, I doubt ATI or Nvidia make money on them after the development costs. It's all about the prestige of being fastest - Nvidia have made $100's of millions on 260's, ATI have done the same with 4850s/70's but neither of them made a bucket of cash on the X2 or 295.

I believe that Nvidia are selling every 295 they make, but they are making them is such small numbers it hardly matters to them in raw $$$.

Now all of a sudden Nvidia are supposed to be releasing highly clocked gpu's at fairly cheap prices - isn't that just going to kill their 285 sales? Their 55nm is still fairly young in comparison, and the best chips end up at 285's. There are no spare highly clocked g200's lying around that can be rebadged. :p 

I'm not writing off the 275, but I do wonder what the point of it is, and what use it is to Nvidia's financial predicament. Why have they put back the release date? Why is it that we have hardly heard anything about the 275 in comparison to the rumours we've had about the 4890?

Do any 275's even exist? I'm starting to wonder. ;) 
a b U Graphics card
March 28, 2009 3:11:09 AM

If you look at the response of the 4890 by some here, they have the same attitude. Most of them favor or hAve just bought a nVidia card, so the other perspective is just as valid, except theres not a higher card from ATI, which they fail to see, as the 285 exists for nVidia, and will sill most likely be the fastest card out, tho expensive.
Im just trying to give the other sides perspective here, so a better understanding by all , or both sides get it
a b U Graphics card
March 28, 2009 3:32:03 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
If you look at the response of the 4890 by some here, they have the same attitude. Most of them favor or hAve just bought a nVidia card, so the other perspective is just as valid, except theres not a higher card from ATI, which they fail to see, as the 285 exists for nVidia, and will sill most likely be the fastest card out, tho expensive.
Im just trying to give the other sides perspective here, so a better understanding by all , or both sides get it


Yeah I know how people think generally. It doesn't matter how much better or cheaper ATI's are jaydee, Nvidia's will sell more so long as they keep making enough money to advertise more.

Even for that, ATI don't deserve to have higher sales than Nvidia just because of last year or the r700. They need to do it consistently, year after year like Nvidia did. Up till now they've never been able to.
a b U Graphics card
March 28, 2009 3:45:25 AM

But everyones on the ropes now, due to the economy, the EU, bad bumps etc. Whos good at doing the rope a dope? AMD. Its like if youre going to have to fight, might as well call the fight in your home town
March 28, 2009 3:56:41 PM

you wrong jennyh except for the 2900 ATI have been more consistent
March 28, 2009 4:06:15 PM

rawsteel said:
This is not their first time. They should be sued. I smell class action. Lawyers?


Who do you plan on sueing, and for what exactly? The cards arent being sold like this, and until they are then there is no ground to stand on.
a b U Graphics card
March 28, 2009 4:21:37 PM

I wont believe it til I see it. If the perf is the same, or as claimed, then itll be hard for anyone to do a thing, even if true
March 28, 2009 4:24:32 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
I wont believe it til I see it. If the perf is the same, or as claimed, then itll be hard for anyone to do a thing, even if true



Exactly. This is probably just more anti-Nvidia propaganda **** slinging that has become so popular over the past year or so.
a b U Graphics card
March 28, 2009 4:43:33 PM

Which alot was brought on by Jen-Hsun, all the Intel fanbois,renaming,disappointments, and bad bumps


PS also high pricing at intro as well, they brought alot on themselves
March 28, 2009 7:27:17 PM

Good point. Those $700 GTX 280s was really the start of this. That truly was a dirty tactic, period. They went well over the bounds of their foothold on the market to take advantage of the consumers, thankfuly for us ATI had something for their asses.
March 29, 2009 1:52:46 AM

Youre right about Nvidia not selling chipsets/motherboards anymore zipzoom. But the market share talk is guess work.
a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2009 10:23:26 AM

Interesting that they have supposedly moved this to April 2nd but it is a total paper launch as there isn't any stock of it yet...
a b U Graphics card
March 30, 2009 10:29:23 AM

Well theyve renamed their cards several times over, so why not rename the launch date, even if theres no product available?
March 30, 2009 7:12:19 PM

nvidia do seem to be playin silly games now, and slowly tarnishing their name along the way. if the 275 gets released there will be a cloud of confusion over performance/price.

rather than being so set on being better, nvidia should instead look to be cheaper. so slashing the prices of the 260 and 280, would make nvidias cards more appealing when regarding atis offerings including the new 4890
a b U Graphics card
March 31, 2009 6:44:10 PM

I wonder how long it will be before FUD says once again that it will be faster than the 4890, and liquid feels the need to post it here as another new topic.
March 31, 2009 10:05:16 PM

jennyh said:
I wonder how long it will be before FUD says once again that it will be faster than the 4890, and liquid feels the need to post it here as another new topic.


About the same time it takes for you to post the same thing over and over. Youve been doing the same exact thing Fudzilla has been, except its ATI for you.

Its ok for you to say the 4890 will beat the GTX 275, but its not ok for Fudzilla to say the opposite? Breaking news: your opinion is not almighty.
March 31, 2009 10:11:43 PM

spathotan said:
About the same time it takes for you to post the same thing over and over. Youve been doing the same exact thing Fudzilla has been, except its ATI for you.

Its ok for you to say the 4890 will beat the GTX 275, but its not ok for Fudzilla to say the opposite? Breaking news: your opinion is not almighty.



I love your avatar. Sorry I just had to say that.
March 31, 2009 10:37:03 PM

:pt1cable:  :pt1cable:  :pt1cable: 
March 31, 2009 11:15:26 PM

do you think that the intro of the 275.....all issues of not many shipping and even not existing aside....will bring the price of the GTX 285 down??

I was thinking of ordering a GTX 285 (probably the evga SC model) tomorrow from either NCIX or newegg but was wondering if it might be a good idea to hold off a week or so (not sure if I can hold off mind you...but always curious)
March 31, 2009 11:34:17 PM

Hold off. The prices have actually gone up $10-20 across a few random models. When I bought my EVGA SC it was $350, now its almost $370 on Newegg.
March 31, 2009 11:40:25 PM

Its pretty common knowledge that ATI offers the best bang for buck, for sh1ts sake the 8800GT is still teetering on $120.
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