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GA-MA785GM-US2H vs GA-MA785G-UD3H - or Suggestions?

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a b V Motherboard
August 19, 2009 6:19:45 AM

Gigabyte GA-MA785GM-US2H vs GA-MA785G-UD3H

I'm looking to replace my AOpen AK77-400N M/B (Athlon 2400+/2GHz) with something new and faster. I've always been happy with Gigabytes in the past so looking at them exclusively. The AOpen I bought used because at the time I was still using several PCI cards (even an AT card) and wanted its 6 slots. Time has passed and I rarely use any PCI's now except a nice ATA133/Raid card to give me 2-4 extra IDE drives. I usually run at least 3 IDE drives plus a CD-RW. I've been running 1GB of RAM for 2 years, tried taking it up to 3GBs after memory seemed to be failing but similar or worse problems. (The cost of 3 GBs DDR is over twice that of 4GBs DDR2) I get no boot sometimes and frequent BSODs, but less often with new RAM. So I've got either BIOS, PS, M/B, RAM addressing or old-age problems with this board.

I'm not a gamer. I use the computer generally for office apps, some graphics, old scenario games and the Internet. And I don't plan to play DVDs on my computer, but time does march on. I'm attracted to the built-in sound and video and don't plan to enhance it - certainly not at this time.

I prefer the GA-MA785G-UD3H because of the standard ATX size - it has an extra PCI Express x16 slot x4 slot which seems to be only good for a paired ATI Crossfire card - can't see getting one of these much less a 2nd one! It also has 2 extra PCI Express x1 slots (what are they good for?) and a 6th SATA port. The ATX version also solves the graphics card blocking SATA issue.

I'm planning on the AMD Phenom II X2 545 Callisto 3.0GHz with either board. Seems to be a good medium between speed and price for my current and 3yr future uses.

I'll get a couple cheapo ATA to SATA adapters to allow me use my usual 3 IDE drives in the new system - with the RAID card to fall back on for extra drives. I'll get a 550-600W PS to replace my current 350W. (My 350 used to run up to 6-7 drives w/o sweating, Gigabyte recommends at least 500 but I won't be driving a vid card)

Planning on a matched pair of either 800 or 1066 2GB DDR2s to give me 3.4 to 4GBs of mem for my current XP - and allow addition of more RAM when I upgrade to 64 OS. (If anyone knows answer to forum post " GA-MA785GM-US2H and ddr2 1066 memory" regarding these M/Bs and 1066 memory, would love to hear about it!)

So... any suggestions? In my shoes, what would you modern guru's go for?

Any other boards in the $80 to $120 range I should look at? Any reason not to choose this processor? Power supply at 550W OK? And dumb question, the M/B has both a 20+4 power connection and a 8 pin connection, does it need both of them from the PS?

I used to be a guru myself back in the "old days" - started selling real IBM-PCs in 1983, became expert with the very 1st 8088 clone boards and laptops but got outta of the building biz in the late 90s. I still build now and then, but find myself needing the research a lot! Thanks in advance for any fast advice - and I'm happy to get partial help in any area!
a b V Motherboard
August 19, 2009 2:53:12 PM

I am running the GA-MA785GM-US2H, and 2 sticks of Crucial 1066 memory, (rated for 1.9 volt opertion) and a Phenom II 920. Booted first time, everything worked perfectly, memory detected by the board and set at 1066 without having to adjust anything. Check my specs under my name.

Long story short, been quite happy with it.
Overclocked my CPU from 2.8 to 3.2ghz by simply raising the buss speed, and no problems what so ever. Been running this way since the first of the year and not a single problem or hiccup with it.

Now the couple of cons I have found with it:
It takes several seconds to start the POST. I have a speaker on the board hooked up. (Hint here, be sure when you buy a new board these days, buy a speaker to hook onto the board so you can check POST beeps. Most boards, and cases do not come with them anymore, they only cost a few bucks, and are worth their weight in gold for trouble shooting) Anyway, after you first hit the power button, it seems to take up to about 3-5 seconds, maybe more sometimes, before you hear the first post beep and things start happening. Not sure why it does this, or if anyone else who has one of these boards notices this.
Biggest complaint....if you install a large GPU, like my 8800GTS, it covers the SATA ports. You simply cannot plug or unplug a cable with the GPU installed. It sits down snugly against the cables. So what I did, was plugged in 4 SATA cables, figuring that is all I would ever need, to the board, inserted the GPU last. Just folded the extra cables back out of the way, so if I need them in the future, they are there, and I can don't have to remove the GPU to plug another cable in. I guess on the bright side, the GPU holds the cables into the plugs, they will NOT come out by themselves.

550 watt PSU is plenty for what you are doing, but get a good name brand. Never start a new build with a cheap off brand GPU, it is not worth it. Not worth it. Spend the money on this, I repeat, spend the money and get a good quality PSU.
a c 177 V Motherboard
August 19, 2009 4:12:20 PM

All excellent suggestions - especially pointing out the need for a 'case speaker'; most of the time it's of no importance, but when you need it, nothing else will help!
http://www.cwc-group.com/casp.html

Another point to the 'buy a good, reputable power supply' item - I've found that the extra ten or twenty dollars it'll cost to get a 'modular' type supply is money well-spent; keeps your 'innards' so much tidier, and, gives you better air-flow, to boot!

BTW - jit, do you happen to have a Seagate drive in your system? That's one of the 'tell-tale' symptoms of the dreaded "Seagate Stutter" firmware problems...
Related resources
a b V Motherboard
August 19, 2009 4:24:23 PM

Thanks for the input! I do already have a case speaker - I find it handy for reading POST errors and as a fallback for testing audio.

I admit to being tempted by some of the cheapo PS offers - guess I should stick with Antec or another brand I've used before. An extra $25 is a good insurance policy and so many odd errors show up with PS problems - and I don't have a few spares on hand like I used to. I have an 8 bay tower and one way the cheapos save money is with short cables which is frustrating for a drive-swapper like myself.

I hadn't considered that the SATA cables, at $2 or so apiece, could just be wrangled under the card before installation and left there. As mentioned, I plan on using the built-in GPU so it's more a consideration for later upgrading. I have a Samsung 2232BW+ 23" monitor which I'm quite happy with - looking forward to seeing it not plugged into a VGA port.

I'm leaning towards the micro-ATX model now because of better bundle prices - still wondering what those mini-PCI slots are good for!

Thanks for the fast replies already - hoping to hear from more!!!
a b V Motherboard
August 20, 2009 2:57:00 AM

bilbat said:
All excellent suggestions - especially pointing out the need for a 'case speaker'; most of the time it's of no importance, but when you need it, nothing else will help!
http://www.cwc-group.com/casp.html

Another point to the 'buy a good, reputable power supply' item - I've found that the extra ten or twenty dollars it'll cost to get a 'modular' type supply is money well-spent; keeps your 'innards' so much tidier, and, gives you better air-flow, to boot!

BTW - jit, do you happen to have a Seagate drive in your system? That's one of the 'tell-tale' symptoms of the dreaded "Seagate Stutter" firmware problems...



Yes, as a matter of fact, I do have a Seagate SATA II 320 gig drive. You think that is what is causing my long hesitation to start POST?
It does not seem to cause any problem, everything works perfectly fine. I just never had a PC that "hesitated" so long to start booting.
If you did not know better, if you are the impatient type, you might be tempted to start hitting reset switches and the like, thinking you are getting nothing on power-up. But that is not the case, always boots, and everything is snappy and fast, this thing will hit 15,000 in 3Dmark06, very, very respectable for what it is, just sloooooooowwwwwwww to start.


PS to the OP, sorry do not mean to hijack your thread, but the long hesitation thing has always stumped me.
a c 177 V Motherboard
August 20, 2009 3:52:19 AM

Well, apologies to the OP, BUT:

Yeah, that was my first clue that I had a problem - I had a 1.5T hooked up to one of the (known to be buggy anyways) GB (jMicron) SATA ports, with AHCI enabled - what would happen is, during the GB portion of the RAID BIOS 'discovery' phase, two times out of three, it would hang for like, three to five seconds, IDing the drive in red as a failed unit - then there'd be a distinct 'click' from the drive, like the heads were unshipping or something, and everything would proceed as normal... Had other, sporadic, oddball problems, too - but the start-up pause was the main thing that caught my attention. Barracuda 7200.11, Barracuda ES.2 (SATA) and DiamondMax 22 drive families are affected:
http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/searc...
Be sure to follow their instructions, and use their drive identification tool, as, to pour salt in the already festering wound, attempting to flash the firmware to some drives that don't require it will toast the drive!
a b V Motherboard
August 20, 2009 9:06:49 AM

No highjack here! The long POST of the board I'm asking about is the subject here - sounds like you've pointed out the problem and removed my concern about this previously un-commented upon problem.

I guess the PCI Express x1 slots are good only for simple SATA, network and TVTuners? And am I correct in that the 2nd PCI Express x16 slot x4 is only for a 2nd/paired GPU card? So if I'm not planning to add a 1st GPU card, no need for the 2nd slot?

a c 177 V Motherboard
August 20, 2009 1:18:56 PM

http://www.gigabyte-usa.com/Products/Motherboard/Produc...

Indeed, the GA-MA785G-UD3H has one sixteen lane, and one four lane PCIe - two points to be made regarding this: 1 - there are very few graphics cards out there that can actually fill sixteen lanes; a 4870 might come close, a twin 4870 (2xGPU/card) will (and, remember, if using CrossFire, some of the load is taken off the PCIe bus, and moved to the CrossFire connector); but in ordinary use, there's not a noticeable difference; 2 - the best use of a 'narrow' PCIe is a hardware RAID card; there are still a number of four lane models, but the better ones these days are eight lane...

I use the 'shorty' for a TV tuner (Hauppage HVR-2250 for NTSC cable, with a SiliconDust HD_HomeRun on the network for antenna ATSC and ClearQAM) (was experimenting in planning for some HTPCs for my parents), and, especially with Win7, once you watch TV using MediaCenter, you'll never go back to commercials!
a b V Motherboard
August 21, 2009 3:20:55 PM

Well, I'm sure everyone's on the edge of their seats wondering what I'll get!!!

I decided upon the GA-MA785GM-US2H micro-ATX instead of the GA-MA785G-UD3H full-ATX - even though the ATX had more slots and an extra SATA internal. Here's the reasons.

1) It's clear that the US2H board is much more popular. When I read boards like this it's common to hear from users of it with their questions and comments. This means I'm more likely to get help with MY questions.

2) I don't really need the extra slots and the board can be replaced even now for under $100.

3) The US2H has an external eSATA port which makes up for the extra internal one.

4) The combo deals at the eggy place saved me $20 even after I upgraded from the AMD Phenom II X2 545 Callisto 3.0GHz to the Black 550 3.1 MHz.

Total system price is $260 to my door and I'll get $20 credit back to PayPal. That's for board, CPU, 2 2GB OCZ Plat DDR2 1066, 585W PS and a couple IDE to SATA convertors.

Of course, everyone will be impressed that my processor is Black - even hidden by the cooler and inside the case! I'm post in this thread once I get it running, hopefully by the end of the week.

Thanks so much to all you folks in the forum. Not just for the replies here, but for all the replies to related posts that helped me jump-start my knowledge of these boards. For example, the problems discussed with the 790 series boards made me more comfortable with these 785s. Thanks Again!!!
a b V Motherboard
August 22, 2009 1:56:16 AM

Thank you for keeping us posted. I always enjoy follow-ups just to see how everything turned out. I think you are going to be pretty happy with your setup, let us know once you get it all together.
a c 177 V Motherboard
August 22, 2009 3:20:05 AM

Man, that's a brutal looking little board. Isn't it awesome, the level of integration they've reached? I mean, there' a big CPU socket, a northbridge, a southbridge, a little sprinkling of MOSFETs, and that's about it! I was going to point out that GB eSATAs are really an eight dollar bracket with a couple cables that 'swoller up' a couple of your on-board SATAs anyway, when I DL'd the manual for my collection, and saw that they actually have an eSATA in the back panel - brilliant! Now, if they'd swap one PCI for another PCIeX1, I'd know what to use for my HTPCs (I kinda want a pair of Hauppage HVR-2250s on each - maybe GB marketing will read this...)
a b V Motherboard
August 22, 2009 4:23:04 AM

bilbat,

Yep, it's a great looking board - I especially like the yellow ports in back! You might want to chk out the bigger ATX board, the GA-MA785G-UD3H. It has identical rear plate - except the eSATA plus 2 extra PCIeX1s and a PCIeX4. Does give you a 6th internal SATA to run your $8 bracket from. And the big PCIeX16 doesn't overhang any of the internal SATA ports. No idea why they dropped the eSATA since the ATX model is a newer release! Me, I like the 2 PCIs cause I have a few odds and ends, like a LPT. Heck, I was looking for a board a couple yrs ago that still had AT slots to run a dual parallel card as a print server - for a pair of monster very-high-speed dot-matrix printers. Yes, some people do still use multipart paper!

He he, I'm really having fun with this purchase. I rarely buy a new fancy computer for myself and the thrill is still there. The yolksters shipped my stuff same day and the box has already traveled about 20 miles!

Back in the 80s and 90s I'm confident that I reached the 1000 mark on building clones and in the 90s with my own company, I had customers who'd give me a blank-check to fill their needs, knowing I'd both get them great stuff and make enough profit to stay around. One problem with doing computer support like that is that even though you go into business for yourself to set your own hours, etc, the result is that you always worked ALL WEEKEND! The only time to bring down systems is when they won't be used, so you end up being available all week (must justify the retainers) then working all weekend to get the upgrades done. I'd often lay in bed on weekday mornings doing support (for DOS) "OK, you see the C:\... now type in EDLIN AUTOEXEC.BAT... yes, EDLIN... then press the 3 key and type..." Windows took all the fun out of phone support for me, because it was so hard to get them to get the right screen up! Then off to appts in the afternoons.

Oh well, just support friends/family mainly now, and my policy is never charge friends - so they can't complain later! I guess after charging biz clients $100/hr it seems puny to charge a home user something they can afford.
a b V Motherboard
August 22, 2009 12:06:05 PM

Mongox said:
Oh well, just support friends/family mainly now, and my policy is never charge friends - so they can't complain later! I guess after charging biz clients $100/hr it seems puny to charge a home user something they can afford.



Some of the folks around here need to take a lesson from this. I cannot remember how many posts I have read where "friends" are asking how to charge or how much to pay their "friends" to work on their rigs, or even hand me down parts. I can't even count the times I have worked on, or the number of hand me downs I have given away over the years to friends and family.

It amazes me as well to see how far things have progressed. Heck, I remember when a hand held calculator was impressive!
a c 177 V Motherboard
August 22, 2009 7:02:48 PM

Quote:
Heck, I remember when a hand held calculator was impressive!

I paid well in excess of $250 for my first, red led digital watch :lol: 
a c 177 V Motherboard
August 23, 2009 2:07:37 AM

I was just ruminating, and remembered the "it says to press the ANY key, but my keyboard doesn't have an ANY key!" days...
a b V Motherboard
August 27, 2009 3:17:19 AM

Well, the box of goodies has arrived and I've broken open the shell and found everything I ordered. Let's hope for no DOAs because I don't have any substitute parts for anything that's comparable.

I've spent the last few days re-organizing my files on my 9 EIDE drives (those are only the ones >40GB) plus my external 500GB. I asked about which drive to use as my boot until I get a SATA in the drives section but didn't get any replies that seemed right. I have a couple ATA/133s w/2MB and ATA/100s w/8MB and was wondering which is the best choice. The Maxtor 80GB ATA/133 2MB edges the Seagate 200GB ATA/100 8MB in transfer rate and is new enough to take the load so I'll use it. In addition, I'd rather sacrifice 80GBs to C: than 200.

It's been rather fun watching Win Explorer copy, move and delete multiple chores at once. I broke down and made a spreadsheet with all my drive specs, xfer speeds and current file storage - great resource compared to post-its on the top of the drives!

I'm hoping the IDE-to-SATA tricky convertors work for me, but I have a 4 drive RAID controller that works on non-RAID IDE drives to fall back on. Considering my old PSU w/350W has never balked at 5 IDE drive plus floppy and CD I should be OK with new 585W PSU with lots of drives. I won't be using a add-on GPU.

At the last minute I realized I hadn't gotten a PS/2 splitter for my mouse and keyboard and had to pay $29.99 at BestBuy for a twin USB adapter - this board has a single PS/2 port. My mouse of choice are old MicroInnovations dual-wheel, sold under several names and hard to find now - I have spares. And my KB is a Fujitsu 4700 - great old ones from early 90s - I cannibalize my spares as needed. The BestBuy adapter will go back once I get either cheap splitter or test a COM pigtail - using the Gigabyte adapter header thread here as a guide. We have a great low-cost comp. parts store here in San Antonio called Altex Electronics. Gonna go browsing there soon!

Wish me luck guys and thanks for advice. And bilbat, sounds like you got a Pulsar - they got a boost by Roger Moore in "Live and Let Die" when Bond wore one. In 1976, the fancy TI calcs were the rage in my crowd - most of us shelled out I think $140 for SR-51A's - I had friends with a 52 and a 56 - one of them read little programmable cards. We had fun in Calculus playing Lunar Lander on it. And our HS had a computer terminal in 1975, time-shared on the district main-frame. We all learned BASIC (about 10 of us in school of 3600) and played the original text-based Star Trek game. I still have some old printouts from that!
a b V Motherboard
August 28, 2009 4:11:58 PM

OK, everything working fine - after some unexpected roadblocks. Unfortunately, the CD included with the board, wasn't a CD but a DVD, so I couldn't read it. I can likely replace all the stuff on it with downloads but still a headache. Will likely read on another comp. and transfer to CD.

I had downloaded everything I found from Gigabyte's site before the install - but the drivers there didn't include the most important one, the network adapter driver. Since Win XP did recognize and install the 1394 adapter, which uses the same port and showed my cable modem, it caused me a fair bit of wasted time trying to get it to work with the modem. I should have just switched over the modem to USB but it didn't occur to me (until just now!). So I ended up have to hook up the old M/B breadboard-style to support my new install - and switch the mouse, KB, modem back and forth. I'm in the process of moving and had already moved my spares. You get spoiled having a shelves filled with extra parts.

The IDE-to-SATA doo-dads work fine, but as expected are cheaply made. The molex power splitters are already coming apart and I'll either make or buy new ones. These are from Masscool - I'll look for a thread on them in hard drives.

I do have a couple of questions for the experts!

The POST tells me that the RAM is currently running in un-ganged mode. Prelim reading says this is OK but I wonder about anything I'm "warned" about in bold text. What's the scoop on this? I have OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 1066 which are running fine although I haven't fully checked out their specs/timing in the board. Ganged or UnGanged?

The OCZ RAM is supposed to run at 2.1V and motherboard defaults to 1.8. I haven't changed it yet but assume I need to do the +.3 on the BIOS settings?

During POST I get a message about "SATA running at IDE mode!" and says I have the option of AHCI mode. My C: drive is running with the CD on the IDE port - should I set it to AHCI mode? I finally found the place in BIOS to change it back, I think.


a c 177 V Motherboard
August 28, 2009 5:01:37 PM

Quote:
The IDE-to-SATA doo-dads work fine, but as expected are cheaply made.

Watch out for them little suckers! I have a small, but ever-growing pile of bad ones here, and at least half are intermittent - &*^% to troubleshoot - bend 'em one way to put 'em in, they work fine; let 'em 'relax' to a different cable position, and 'poof' - magically disappearing drives! I've gotten bad ones from several makers' labels, but all the actual plastic pieces seem to come from the same mold cavity - probably somewhere in Elbonia!

Quote:
The POST tells me that the RAM is currently running in un-ganged mode. Prelim reading says this is OK but I wonder about anything I'm "warned" about in bold text. What's the scoop on this? I have OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 1066 which are running fine although I haven't fully checked out their specs/timing in the board. Ganged or UnGanged?

You want 'em 'ganged' (dual channel); your memory support page at:
http://www.gigabyte-usa.com/FileList/MemorySupport/mb_m...
bears the following warning: "Note: Due to AMD AM3/ AM2+ CPU limitation, DDR2 1066 or above speed is only supported by 1 dimm per channel." - so, with only two sticks, you're good to go in dual channel, no matter what; I've rooted into AMD docs like a 'truffle hog', but still haven't found any tech docs to support this, one way or the other...

Quote:
The OCZ RAM is supposed to run at 2.1V and motherboard defaults to 1.8. I haven't changed it yet but assume I need to do the +.3 on the BIOS settings?

That's a yes - w/OCZ, might even need +.35

Quote:
During POST I get a message about "SATA running at IDE mode!" and says I have the option of AHCI mode. My C: drive is running with the CD on the IDE port - should I set it to AHCI mode? I finally found the place in BIOS to change it back, I think.

The message doesn't have anything to do with your actual IDE port; it'll always be, well, and IDE port! They're referring to the BIOS options for the SATA ports, which can run 'plain', pretty much as an IDE port, or use AHCI (or RAID, for that matter) which turns on the 'neat stuff', like hot-swapping, and native command queueing. Advantages - supposedly better throughput (but I haven't actually seen any on the SG1.5Tb I tested with, both ways - but I've been told my file mix is just probably wrong to see any gain...); disadvantages - gotta install a 'pre-load' driver; takes a bit longer during the 'hardware discovery' phase of the BIOS' POST...

The actual option is on the "Integrated Peripherals" page of the BIOS; listed as:
"OnChip SATA Type" (SATA2_0~SATA2_3 connectors) Confgures the operating mode of the integrated SATA2_0~SATA2_3 controller.
Native IDE - Allows the SATA controller to operate in Native IDE mode. (Default) Enable Native IDE mode if you wish to install operating systems that support Native mode.
RAID - Enables RAID for the SATA controller.
AHCI - Confgures the SATA controllers to AHCI mode. Advanced Host Controller Interface (AHCI) is an interface specifcation that allows the storage driver to enable advanced Serial ATA features such as Native Command Queuing and hot plug.

Have fun, and don't forget to do a "Load Optimized Defaults" at some point...

Bill

a b V Motherboard
August 28, 2009 5:44:49 PM

LOL, did the optimized defaults on the first POST, before letting Win XP install. I DO read your advice!

Got it on the Ganged and SATA/IDE port thing. So it won't affect me at all now, since running no SATA drives. Got my eye on a WD 500GB Black tho. I figure it'll like my Black AMD phenom - which btw was silver as usual.

Not getting any joy trying to get the OCZ run at 1066. Even with Vs set to +.3 (the max) and multiplier to 1066, the tests show it at 800. The eggy site has issued me an RMA for it, and apparently removed the restocking fee - guess they do that when reviewing RMA comments - I pointed out they had offered a bundle with my board so it wasn't my error? I noticed they also changed the voltage for that RAM on their pages from 2.1 to 2.2. This M/B only goes to 2.1, so can't see it working well ever.

I'm gonna go for Crucial's 1066 pair, which their site recommends and only costs a few dollars more on-sale. And runs at 1.8V so I can get the most outta the M/B adjustments if desired. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I'll cheat and get the replacement RAM before doing the RMA and trust them to really give me the refund. I've been very happy with dealing with both Egg and Tiger on purchases and refunds. Already got the refund for my previous 3GB mem items from Tiger just 2 days after they got it. They credited directly to the BillMeLater place I used to get a discount>
a c 177 V Motherboard
August 28, 2009 6:07:21 PM

Yeah - the Egg is great! I just wish they carried a wider selection of water cooling junk... The load optimized should read the SPD/EPP off the RAM - I suppose it 'saw' the voltage spec, and said to itself "well, what the hell does he expect of me?!?"
a b V Motherboard
August 28, 2009 7:57:27 PM

Should say that I'm VERY happy with this board ma785gm-us2h and the things I got with it. Can't ask for more in this price range. It's delivering all it promised.

And my 15 yr old COM header to DB-9 from the parts box worked on the MB just fine - got me past my old mouse. So the mouse is routed: MB 10pin header > DB-9 connector > serial-PS/2 port convertor > PS/2 mouse. And keyboard goes: shared PS/2 port on MB > PS/2 to large KB convertor > Fujitsu keyboard. Kinda funny what we go thru to stick with what we like - I'm posting this w/Netscape btw!

Oh, I do usually get some Buzz sounds right after POST completes and Win starts to boot. They vary from a Bzzz Bzzz Bzzzzzzzz to just a single Bzzzzzz or a couple. They vary when no changes done to BIOS - I'm rebooting a lot because of S/W installations. They aren't beeps but real buzz sounds.

I ordered a $50 BestBuy gift card using my credit card points, hoping they'll put the WD 500GB Black back on sale for $55.

a c 177 V Motherboard
August 28, 2009 8:23:57 PM

Quote:
And my 15 yr old COM header to DB-9 from the parts box worked on the MB just fine - got me past my old mouse. So the mouse is routed: MB 10pin header > DB-9 connector > serial-PS/2 port convertor > PS/2 mouse. And keyboard goes: shared PS/2 port on MB > PS/2 to large KB convertor > Fujitsu keyboard.
:pt1cable: 

I've got the same MB > PS/2 to large KB convertor > keyboard on every machine in the house, except the one I'm sitting at (G11 here), to use a bunch of 6 1/2" x 10 1/2" 'MicroTypes" I bought about two decades ago - clear an acre of space on every desk...

Quote:
Oh, I do usually get some Buzz sounds right after POST completes and Win starts to boot. They vary from a Bzzz Bzzz Bzzzzzzzz to just a single Bzzzzzz or a couple. They vary when no changes done to BIOS - I'm rebooting a lot because of S/W installations. They aren't beeps but real buzz sounds.


Fan blade nicking a cable 'till it's 'blown' out of the way?

a b V Motherboard
August 28, 2009 9:43:00 PM

No, it's a real electronic buzz generated sound - I think coming from the PC speaker I have but haven't tried disconnecting it. I thought of disconnecting the speaker because it really sounds like the motherboard itself making the sound - some old boards had a built-in tiny noise generator for this. LOL, I did get the fan nicking its own power wires on the first boot - it's a PSU driven fan - another old part bin one. I figured the case deserved a new one when I looked at the grimy dust on old one. Not sure why I bother, I never put the case cover on, rarely even the front. I play around with drives and such too much to ever be "finished" with the computer. I have a special plastic pen I keep by case to prod into the on/off and reset switches - it's just the right size to pretend its a case button.

Yes, I have the same style PS/2-to-KB cord things. The stubby ones without cords liked to fall out back in the day.
a c 177 V Motherboard
August 28, 2009 10:08:34 PM

Quote:
I have the same style PS/2-to-KB cord things.

Do they even make those things anymore? If I ever run out of 'em, I'm screwed!

If it even resembles a 60Hz hum or buzz, could be a grounding problem; the PSU screws should do the job, but sometimes, because of paint or oxidation (surprisingly, aluminum oxide is a pretty good insulator - I looked it up the other day and it was something or other times ten to the sixth ohms/mm or therabouts) they don't; I'm a belt and suspenders guy - I take an emery board, clean off the paint around a screw hole, and do this - every time:

'Nother culprit that gets us old farts, is standoff insulating washers - useta need 'em, now can't have 'em - radially oriented solder pads around MOBO mounting holes are to get a good ground...
a b V Motherboard
August 28, 2009 11:16:04 PM

Is a 60Hz hum that sound you hear right before you reach out to touch your bench power supply and wake up on the floor? Anyway, don't think so. I'll record it eventually and let ya figure it out.

Ask and you will receive! I'm heading over to Altex Electronics tomorrow, a great store started here in San Antonio, and I was looking over the website to see what they might have. Nothing compares with shopping there tho, it's a computer and electronics person's dream place. I know the website doesn't list everything, but here's that part. Oh, they're one of the few stores with online "hints" to related products that are actually helpful - I often find the part I'm looking for by finding the wrong item in search.
http://www.altex.com/PS2-Male-to-AT-Female-Adapter-Cabl...

Since you're a real power guy, you can answer this one. I need more molex connectors and my old Y's are tired-looking. I cannibalized an old PS for the wiring to convert an old PS female molex to create a Y with 4 connectors. Is there any reason not to do this? That is, there's no reason to split from more than one of the existing PS-to-molex cables - inside the PS they all seem to come from the same place. I only see 1-to-2 cables for sale, I'm making my usual 1-to-4 Y-splitter.

What I mean is - is the PS is supplying ALL of the 5V and 12V wiring from the same source? Does it "overload" one cable to split it several times as opposed to splitting from more than one. From what I've seen, there's only one circuit in the PS that supplies all the power, so there's no difference, just as no difference in plugging 2 microwaves into one baseboard plug rather than running it to another, if they're both on the same breaker.

And, for my breadboard system (no case) - it's running with no grounding. It's basically the old PS (sitting on top of other case) with an old MB box on top of it, then the MB (with extra thin bare cardboard under), then cables to the drive and a rewired on/off switch wired in. I seemed to remember that when ATX's first came out, they wouldn't run like this (maybe just needed the "soft" off/on switch), but I had no problem doing it the other day. Am I asking for disaster? (And yes, I need a picture of this!)
a c 177 V Motherboard
August 29, 2009 3:51:49 AM

Quote:
What I mean is - is the PS is supplying ALL of the 5V and 12V wiring from the same source? Does it "overload" one cable to split it several times as opposed to splitting from more than one.

That actually depends upon the sophistication (and, of course, cost) of the power supply; the main 5V is usually just one circuit, but on a good one, the 12V is broken into 'rails', each one separate, and with its own 'fold-back' protection - here's specs for one of mine (a Zalman 750):

Where it says 12V1, 12V2, etc., - those are the 'rails'
All you have to be careful of is the current capacity of your main (pre-split) wire; a Molex pin can carry a god awful amount of current...

Quote:
And, for my breadboard system (no case) - it's running with no grounding. It's basically the old PS (sitting on top of other case) with an old MB box on top of it, then the MB (with extra thin bare cardboard under), then cables to the drive and a rewired on/off switch wired in. I seemed to remember that when ATX's first came out, they wouldn't run like this (maybe just needed the "soft" off/on switch), but I had no problem doing it the other day. Am I asking for disaster? (And yes, I need a picture of this!)

Eeek! Tomorrow (gotta crash tonight) I'll tell some 'grounding horror stories!"

a b V Motherboard
August 29, 2009 4:25:47 AM

Well, this fairly inexpensive PS does advertise two rails... so I guess one is devoted to CPU and MB and the other to Drives and maybe PCI connector?

I was thinking earlier - the way to get good bucks for a PS would be to do that, devote X Watts to the MB functions - that way you never lose power to them and get odd stuff happening. The "rails" term was new to me, didn't know what it did.

I've had shorts before from loose-fitting molex connectors - really from the pins coming out and shorting onto things. That's why I'm starting with good ones from a PS - get nice heavy wire and no loose connections since this Compaq had no action inside the case during its life. I'm using regular sheiled crunch-down connectors for it, might even shrink the whole thing when finished.
a c 177 V Motherboard
August 29, 2009 4:05:18 PM

Another advantage with multiple rails is that the 'fold-backs' (the circuit's equivalent of a fuse) can be tighter per rail; if you are allowing eighty amps on one circuit, you have the possibility of one component (or short) drawing, like, a hundred amps before the fold-back trips; if your rails are rated at twenty, you can limit that to, say, twenty-five, and prevent a lot more damage...

Quote:
I've had shorts before from loose-fitting molex connectors

Yeah, and try to buy decent ones - it's a nightmare; you pretty much are stuck with whatever you can lay your hands on; I know they make good ones, as those Zalmans have excellent ones - who do I have to bribe to get access?!
a b V Motherboard
August 29, 2009 11:50:06 PM

Ahem...back to the "ganged" or "unganged" option.
AMD processors, for all but those who need a huge, huge amount of bandwidth, are faster running "unganged" mode if you are only using 2 sticks of memory. I see this question all the time, and I see the same answer given, "you should be running in ganged mode for dual channel operation". This is not exactly the best advice if you are only running 2 sticks of memory. That is why, on EVERY single AMD board, the default is mode is "unganged" if you are using only 2 sitcks of memory. Let me elaborate a little.
The Phenoms have 2 memory controllers, yes that is correct, 2 of them. Each controller optimally will run a bank of memory. If you only run 2 sticks, and run them "ganged" or dual channel, each controller must wait on the other controller to finish before making read or writes to memory. If you run them unganged, each controller runs a bank (or a single stick of memory) indendantly of the other.

The difference is not huge, but most normal users, including gamers, will see better performance, if you are only running 2 sticks of memory, by leaving them unganged, do to fact the both memory controllers can work at the same time.

If you are running 4 sticks, you can go ahead with the ganged mode, as you now have 2 full banks of memory, and each controller will handle a bank, altghough you will lose some speed from 1066 to 800mhz.
a b V Motherboard
August 30, 2009 12:21:11 AM

Hey, thanks jit.

That's what I had read elsewhere, maybe by you, and just wasn't sure.

And are you saying that indeed, you can't use 4 sticks, 2 full banks, at 1066MHz on any of these boards (or the CPU?) - as the Mem guide seems to say?

As I said earlier, I'm getting some lower voltage RAM to replace the OCZ since the board won't push them at even their base required voltage for 1066 mode.

Heck, this computer is fast as sin for my use. The only game I run is many years old, most of my use is spreadsheet and some graphics. But, ya never know... Generally tho, my need to upgrade has usually been OS and stupid application growth driven - rather than needing the new tech. I'm dragged into new versions of S/W literally kicking and screaming. Just installed my Office 97 before putting in Office 2003 - the 97 still does things the newer doesn't - and I never care about the features they are bloating their code with.
a c 177 V Motherboard
August 30, 2009 12:55:40 AM

jit -

Do you know of any tech docs about any of this - especially the 'more than two sticks faster than 800' issue? I've dug and dug, and half of what i can find is five years old; maybe I'm looking in the wrong places!

Bill
a b V Motherboard
August 30, 2009 11:47:32 AM

Well, here is something from last year http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/old_tech_new_...
and it is hard to find any techincal sheets with hard data.
What you can find though is a lot of independant tests, and individuals who basically have run their own tests. It does seem to an area of confusion.
Most will say that unganged mode is faster. But, to be fair, it is only by a small amount, with games seeming to have the most benefit.
The thing about 1066 and 800, again, most of this is trial and error, and user's running their own tests.
If you put 2 sticks of memory of your board in the wrong slots, or if you put 4 sticks of memory on the board, it will boot at 800mhz. Try it yourself and see!
I had came across a really good tech article about all this about a year ago, for the life of me, I can find it again usually, but it takes a some time.
I'll keep hunting and I will post it when I find it.
a b V Motherboard
August 30, 2009 11:56:55 AM

Mongox said:
Hey, thanks jit.

That's what I had read elsewhere, maybe by you, and just wasn't sure.

And are you saying that indeed, you can't use 4 sticks, 2 full banks, at 1066MHz on any of these boards (or the CPU?) - as the Mem guide seems to say?

As I said earlier, I'm getting some lower voltage RAM to replace the OCZ since the board won't push them at even their base required voltage for 1066 mode.

Heck, this computer is fast as sin for my use. The only game I run is many years old, most of my use is spreadsheet and some graphics. But, ya never know... Generally tho, my need to upgrade has usually been OS and stupid application growth driven - rather than needing the new tech. I'm dragged into new versions of S/W literally kicking and screaming. Just installed my Office 97 before putting in Office 2003 - the 97 still does things the newer doesn't - and I never care about the features they are bloating their code with.


You can try to run 4 sticks at 1066, but most find their system becomes unstable. Some people do say their systems just seem "snappier" with only 2 sticks of memory.
I used to run 4 sticks of 1 gig, changed to 2x2 sticks, and I certainly believe the system "feels" faster.
a b V Motherboard
August 31, 2009 1:13:38 AM

Just to let yall know I'm taking proper care with running my old motherboard! Once I get moved, I'll set it up properly - might even find a case! But for sure a KB and mouse of its own and a connection to share the Internet.

a c 177 V Motherboard
August 31, 2009 1:52:49 AM

I love that case! Seems kinda 'avant-garde' to me!! Maybe a couple nice CFL tubes for an accent?
a b V Motherboard
August 31, 2009 2:54:14 AM

Well, I do need to swap out the M/B box, that's a AOpen board sitting on the Gigabyte it replaced. The board has a extra thin plain cardboard piece under it - I don't trust slick cardboard to be non-conductive - can't be too careful!!

Here's the new system, with its buddy on top. Fully configured with 7 internal IDE drives an an external USB/IDE. Only one drive is actually connected to the IDE port, along with the CD-ROM. Three are running with tiny SATA-to-IDE conversion boards on the back and three are running off a RAID board in non-RAID mode. I'm almost thru organizing all my files - almost all are on the ext. 500GB and duped onto the various int. drives. When I'm thru with that, I'll stow them away again for backups. One thing's clear from 26 yrs in the computer biz, you can't have too many backups.

Once I get a 500GB SATA, I'll make it the system drive and likely keep a lot of data on it - hate the idea but the speed will be hard to resist. Maybe I'll be happy with running Win on the old drive and saving the SATA for everything else - I can find the tips I'm sure to make the Prog drive not the boot drive. I already redirect Win to use C:\Data rather than "My Docs" - but doesn't work for everything. Still have programs that insist on using the Documents and Settings folder.

Laughing is OK btw - but it does the job I ask from it. The 2nd pic shows how neat and tidy all those cables are inside the case - LOL!!!



a b V Motherboard
September 1, 2009 10:51:12 PM

Oh, I do usually get some Buzz sounds right after POST completes and Win starts to boot. They vary from a Bzzz Bzzz Bzzzzzzzz to just a single Bzzzzzz or a couple. They vary when no changes done to BIOS - I'm rebooting a lot because of S/W installations. They aren't beeps but real buzz sounds. said:
Oh, I do usually get some Buzz sounds right after POST completes and Win starts to boot. They vary from a Bzzz Bzzz Bzzzzzzzz to just a single Bzzzzzz or a couple. They vary when no changes done to BIOS - I'm rebooting a lot because of S/W installations. They aren't beeps but real buzz sounds.


More on the Buzzz.

I hooked up a 100mm fan in the space at rear of case, cut off the existing molex power connector and put on a FDD 4 pin connector that fits on the Northbridge Fan header on the M/B. Checked polarity, tested fan, all works fine. After a successful boot (I had spiffed up other H/W things) I went into BIOS and turned on the NB_Fan failure alert. Well, it didn't like this, or I guess my old-style fan, and after POST began a steady Buzzzz which didn't go off. I fixed this by turning off the alert in BIOS.

So... that's what the Buzz is - it's the same buzz sounded to alert about system fan, cpu fan, etc... And it still gives me the buzz for 2-4 seconds on each boot, right after POST finishes and Windows begins loading. No sign the cpu fan is turning off at any point and it's the only fan controlled or monitored by the BIOS.

Any ideas?



a c 177 V Motherboard
September 2, 2009 12:24:22 AM

I have a fan that will do this periodically - all that's happening with mine is that I have a flaky connector to the header - once in a while, the 'feedback' pin ('sense' - pin 3) loses contact, and the alarm makes me well aware of it; been too lazy to take it apart and replace the connector - just 'twist it a different way' and it's good for another four or six weeks (during which time, I keep telling myself, I'm bound to get around to it!) of blissful silence; you may have a fan whose internal circuitry causes it to 'ramp' up, to lower the startup inrush current, and it just doesn't agree with your board's idea of promptness...
a b V Motherboard
September 2, 2009 6:22:12 AM

OK, I tracked it down using the Buzz=Fan clues. It occurs when the BIOS is set to give a CPU Temp warning (set to 60C). Doesn't matter if I change Auto settings on CPU fan or other similar things. I'll get a Buzz when turn on the Temp warning right as Win boots. I think I'll live with the Buzz and keep the CPU Temp warning on - but it's good to know why it happens. (Gigabyte turns off this warning in Opt Defaults)

More importantly, something else I've been working on. Even tho I don't plan to over-clock (I have a standard AMD CPU cooler/fan) I've noticed that Si Sandra reports my CPU as over-voltage. The CPU is a normal AMD 1.35 volts and that's what the board says it'll supply at the Auto or Manual/Normal setting. But Sandra reports a CPU voltage of 1.42 consistently. So I tried reducing by 2 progressions, -0.05V which should take me down to 1.37 or so. Nope, it reduced from the 1.35V to 1.30v - leaving my CPU underpowered but correctly subtracting 0.05V from 1.35V. -0.025 took me to 1.33V. Back to Normal and I've got 1.42V again rather than 1.35V. So following the weird logic I set it to increase by 0.25 - which gave me a 1.36V, not bad at all and just slightly over-voltage.

This also reduced the CPU temps showing in BIOS Health and software. I had been running about 50C at the 1.42V. When testing lowered V's I got readings as low as 43C - but at 1.36V it's showing 47C-48C.

Oh, unrelated to this I tried the ACC functions to un-lock my AMD Phenom II x2 550 Black processor's extra cores - and it worked. I now have a Phenom II x4 B50 - I assume the B50 rather than 950 because AMD doesn't seem to actually sell a x4 950 model. Runs fine and it seems faster, tests say it is for sure. So I got a $190 CPU for $95.

So, I've changed my AMD Callisto into a Deneb. I actually preferred the Callisto designation - I like the idea of having a nymph or a moon of Jupiter. But Deneb is one of the brightest stars in the sky, so guess it's ok. Interestingly, the nymph Callisto was transformed into a bear after Zeus tricked her and took her virginity. So Callisto is known to be able to change into another form. Wonder if the AMD folks are into mythology? If the star Deneb was part of Ursa Major (Great Bear) rather than Cygnus (Swan) then we'd know for sure!
a b V Motherboard
September 13, 2009 7:05:15 AM

Quote:
So, I've changed my AMD Callisto into a Deneb. I actually preferred the Callisto designation - I like the idea of having a nymph or a moon of Jupiter. But Deneb is one of the brightest stars in the sky, so guess it's ok. Interestingly, the nymph Callisto was transformed into a bear after Zeus tricked her and took her virginity. So Callisto is known to be able to change into another form. Wonder if the AMD folks are into mythology? If the star Deneb was part of Ursa Major (Great Bear) rather than Cygnus (Swan) then we'd know for sure!


I can't believe I got no comments on this!

I'm running my new 1066 RAM at lowered CL of 6 and all is well. Leaving the Voltage for RAM and CPU at auto - which makes both over-voltage.

Anyway, I ordered a couple of things for the system so I can play with the OC numbers a bit. Got me a Scythe Katana CPU cooler/fan after reading 100s of reviews and specs. No one likes the same models and can't agree and all report wide variations of cooling. I like the angle on this one and I want the 92mm size. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

And thru in a couple of these cute fans! http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... Will give an effect like this LOL! Gotta admit, my case NEEDS something!
November 25, 2009 8:59:42 PM

Mongox:
I had the very same problem with my wife's new PC. Same mother board. And a CD Read/Write. Had to buy an LG 22X DVD read/write. $29.95 at Best Buy. Did you have any strange reboot in the middle of loading the Gigabyte drivers? I did. After the reboot, all I got was a DOS prompt flashing and a small green square iwth the infinity sign above it and an "H" in it. Went away after I installed Win XP SP 2. Unfortunately, your suggestions were of little use. I opted for throwing money at the problem. Tiger Direct was glad to oblige. The PC kit came in four days.


Mongox said:
OK, everything working fine - after some unexpected roadblocks. Unfortunately, the CD included with the board, wasn't a CD but a DVD, so I couldn't read it. I can likely replace all the stuff on it with downloads but still a headache. Will likely read on another comp. and transfer to CD.



I had downloaded everything I found from Gigabyte's site before the install - but the drivers there didn't include the most important one, the network adapter driver. Since Win XP did recognize and install the 1394 adapter, which uses the same port and showed my cable modem, it caused me a fair bit of wasted time trying to get it to work with the modem. I should have just switched over the modem to USB but it didn't occur to me (until just now!). So I ended up have to hook up the old M/B breadboard-style to support my new install - and switch the mouse, KB, modem back and forth. I'm in the process of moving and had already moved my spares. You get spoiled having a shelves filled with extra parts.

The IDE-to-SATA doo-dads work fine, but as expected are cheaply made. The molex power splitters are already coming apart and I'll either make or buy new ones. These are from Masscool - I'll look for a thread on them in hard drives.

I do have a couple of questions for the experts!

The POST tells me that the RAM is currently running in un-ganged mode. Prelim reading says this is OK but I wonder about anything I'm "warned" about in bold text. What's the scoop on this? I have OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 1066 which are running fine although I haven't fully checked out their specs/timing in the board. Ganged or UnGanged?

The OCZ RAM is supposed to run at 2.1V and motherboard defaults to 1.8. I haven't changed it yet but assume I need to do the +.3 on the BIOS settings?

During POST I get a message about "SATA running at IDE mode!" and says I have the option of AHCI mode. My C: drive is running with the CD on the IDE port - should I set it to AHCI mode? I finally found the place in BIOS to change it back, I think.

a b V Motherboard
November 29, 2009 4:54:37 AM

engrbill47 - I was able to get the Net Adapter drivers I needed at Realtek's site - was just caught surprised when it wasn't included in the Gigabyte drivers from their site. So had to switch to old computer - with Internet access I didn't have on new one due to no NIC driver - to get the needed drivers.

I still haven't seen the Gigabyte DVD - keep missing the lowest price plus free shipping for the DVD drive by Sony I want.
February 18, 2010 10:24:23 AM

bilbat said:
http://www.gigabyte-usa.com/Products/Motherboard/Produc...

Indeed, the GA-MA785G-UD3H has one sixteen lane, and one four lane PCIe - two points to be made regarding this: 1 - there are very few graphics cards out there that can actually fill sixteen lanes; a 4870 might come close, a twin 4870 (2xGPU/card) will (and, remember, if using CrossFire, some of the load is taken off the PCIe bus, and moved to the CrossFire connector); but in ordinary use, there's not a noticeable difference; 2 - the best use of a 'narrow' PCIe is a hardware RAID card; there are still a number of four lane models, but the better ones these days are eight lane...

I use the 'shorty' for a TV tuner (Hauppage HVR-2250 for NTSC cable, with a SiliconDust HD_HomeRun on the network for antenna ATSC and ClearQAM) (was experimenting in planning for some HTPCs for my parents), and, especially with Win7, once you watch TV using MediaCenter, you'll never go back to commercials!


I have the above motherboard (UD3H)... the 2nd pci e slot is actually an 8x I was quite suprised and happy when i found this out as the documentation says that its a 4x... if you install the applets that are found on the MB driver CD one of them is a DMI viewer... run that and it will give you accurate information about your mainboard. Running twin evga 9600 gso cards no xfire (ati) no SLI (MB doesnt support that anyway) and it runs GREAT I run 3 EVE online clients on 3 screens powered by two cards and rarely see any bottlenecking which is probably due to internet lag anyway. Average FPS is 36 per screen with graphics on medium settings (2*@1280x1024& 1TV@ 1024X768) The mainboard xfire option limits you to cards with 512 mb of mem. AM2 cpu's wont support ram speeds above 800mhz on this board so i switched to an am3 to find out that the board also doesnt support speeds of 1066 or higher with more than one dim per channel. which means i would have to go from 8 gig to 4 gig (using gskill 2gb dims with variable voltage and clockspeed) to get my memory speed from 800 to 1066... i dont think its worth it for me performance is excellent and i frequently get up to 4+gb of mem usage on the task manager, but if you want that extra memory speed you can go with two 4gb dims for a max of 8gb's and leave two ram slots empty although the board can support up to 16 gb of memory. Great Board~!
February 26, 2010 4:42:08 AM

jitpublisher said:
I am running the GA-MA785GM-US2H, and 2 sticks of Crucial 1066 memory, (rated for 1.9 volt opertion) and a Phenom II 920. Booted first time, everything worked perfectly, memory detected by the board and set at 1066 without having to adjust anything. Check my specs under my name.

Long story short, been quite happy with it.
Overclocked my CPU from 2.8 to 3.2ghz by simply raising the buss speed, and no problems what so ever. Been running this way since the first of the year and not a single problem or hiccup with it.

Now the couple of cons I have found with it:
It takes several seconds to start the POST. I have a speaker on the board hooked up. (Hint here, be sure when you buy a new board these days, buy a speaker to hook onto the board so you can check POST beeps. Most boards, and cases do not come with them anymore, they only cost a few bucks, and are worth their weight in gold for trouble shooting) Anyway, after you first hit the power button, it seems to take up to about 3-5 seconds, maybe more sometimes, before you hear the first post beep and things start happening. Not sure why it does this, or if anyone else who has one of these boards notices this.
Biggest complaint....if you install a large GPU, like my 8800GTS, it covers the SATA ports. You simply cannot plug or unplug a cable with the GPU installed. It sits down snugly against the cables. So what I did, was plugged in 4 SATA cables, figuring that is all I would ever need, to the board, inserted the GPU last. Just folded the extra cables back out of the way, so if I need them in the future, they are there, and I can don't have to remove the GPU to plug another cable in. I guess on the bright side, the GPU holds the cables into the plugs, they will NOT come out by themselves.

550 watt PSU is plenty for what you are doing, but get a good name brand. Never start a new build with a cheap off brand GPU, it is not worth it. Not worth it. Spend the money on this, I repeat, spend the money and get a good quality PSU.


I have a speaker setup on mine, and get a POST beep within the first 2 seconds, and boot to desktop within 15-17 seconds. Not sure what the delay is on your system (and since this post is a little old, I'm sure it's solved) :) 
!