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MAJOR HELP PLEASE!!!

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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April 9, 2009 10:19:35 AM

ok heres the problem i have an inno 3d 9800gtx+ DHT Freezer and i want the right power supply for it. The power requirements for the card are as follows:

edit:
Minimum 500W or greater system power supply (with 12V current rating of 30A)
http://www.inno3d.com/products/graphic_card/gf9/9800gtx...

apperently my current psu isnt sufficient enough for my card. These are the specs of my current psu:
500w
+12v1 @ 17A
+12v2 @ 16A

To be honest i dont understand what +12v1 & +12v2 mean. This is my first PC ever and i dont want to buy the wrong components because ive already made that mistake by buying the wrong cpu for my motherboard. So some honest help would be appriciated.

Im considering the following psu's:
No.1:

edit:
Corsair TX750W Specifications: Model CMPSU-750TX

AC INPUT 90-264V ~ 10A 50/60Hz
DC OUTPUT: +3.3V +5V +12V -12V +5Vsb
MAX LOAD : 24A 28A 60A 0.8A 3A
MAX COMBINED
WATTAGE : 180W 720W 9.6W 15W

TOTAL POWER: 750W

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/Graphic-Displays/ne...

No.2:

edit:

Coolermaster RS-700-AAAA-A3, UCP 700w

AC INPUT 100-240Vac 10-5A 60-50Hz
DC OUTPUT: 3.3V +5V +12V1 +12V2 +12V3 +12V4 -12V +5Vsb
MAX LOAD 22A 22A 19A 19A 19A 19A 0.5A 3.0A
MAX COMBINED
WATTAGE 133W 624W 6W 15W

TOTAL POWER:700W

http://www.coolermaster.com/products/product.php?langua...

So which one is better.

Please help me out here. And pls explain the differences between the voltage rails(+12v1,+12v2,+12v3...).
Thanks in advance

cpu: AMD 5600+ @ 2.9ghz
mb: Foxconn 590 sli
hdd: 500gb western digital & 120gb seagate
gpu: Inno 3d 9800gtx+ DHT Freezer
Ram: 2gb
& samsung dvd driver/writer

oh, is it safe to run my pc with the gpu without the drivers turned on. will it blow up or fry my gpu


More about : major

a b U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
April 9, 2009 10:41:12 AM

Corsair is far better than the CM...
It can actully run 2 of those cards...
April 9, 2009 10:52:05 AM

12V1, 12V2 etc is separate 12V lines from the PSU but from the same 12V. Due to current consumption being so huge on PSU's they decided to split the main 12V X amount of amps into 2,3 and four 12V lines that distribute the amperage so that you don't pull all those amps over a single line which can causes some issue in terms of safety and reliability.

Edit: Oh, and each 12V line has it's own over current protection. As so clearly stated by the ATX standard - should current consumption exceed on any of the rails the PSU must shut down.
Related resources
a c 186 U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
April 9, 2009 12:22:36 PM

Go for the Corsair unit.
You`ll be fine running the card without drivers, the BIOS will keep the fan running and the temperatures within reason, it will just look bad.
Look up ATX in your search engine, Wikipedia has plenty of info on this standard.
April 9, 2009 12:35:14 PM

Ive run an older 8800gts 320mb on a generic 450w power supply for over 2 years with no issue, give the 500 watter you have a go, chances of it failing are next to none, an 8800gts will use more juice than your 9800 as your 9800 is produced on a smaller fab process

People tend to seriously over rate how much juice you need for modern graphics cards and pc's in general if it really worries you that much you need to ask yourself a question,

1.Will I sli or crossfire down the track?

If yes source yourself a quality 800w or above power supply.
If no a quality 550w corsair will do the trick, cheaper too.

When buying psu's concern yourself more with the brand than the wattage output.
April 9, 2009 6:59:16 PM

tonkatuffmofo said:
Ive run an older 8800gts 320mb on a generic 450w power supply for over 2 years with no issue, give the 500 watter you have a go, chances of it failing are next to none, an 8800gts will use more juice than your 9800 as your 9800 is produced on a smaller fab process

People tend to seriously over rate how much juice you need for modern graphics cards and pc's in general if it really worries you that much you need to ask yourself a question,

1.Will I sli or crossfire down the track?

If yes source yourself a quality 800w or above power supply.
If no a quality 550w corsair will do the trick, cheaper too.

When buying psu's concern yourself more with the brand than the wattage output.


ive already tried my current psu and when i install the drivers, restart my pc and log in to windows it freezes and sometimes crashes(reboots) within 5-10 seconds of of being in the desktop. thus i have to remove the drivers. ive already tried different bunch of drivers old and new with no luck so if its not a gpu failure then its a power failure. ive chosen the above to absolutely make sure that power is never a problem. if you've got any more advice then it would greatly be appriciated.
a c 130 U Graphics card
April 9, 2009 7:40:49 PM

The corsair is the better of the two as has been said.
It very much depends on your PSU as to if its the problem or not. The two 12v rails cant just be added up to get the correct Amperage of the line/s and its the amperage thats important.
The Corsair has a single 60 A rail rated at 720 Watts. the Amperage is equal to the total Wattage divided by the voltage of the rail so 720 divided by 12 does equal the claimed 60 Amps. A good quality PSU will have the correct Wattage available even if its split between more than one line to equal the claimed Amperage. Sadly this isnt always the case.
The coolermaster is claiming 4 rails at 19 Amps which would be 76 Amps total. However the Wattage is listed as 624 which when divided by 12 equals only 52 total amps available. So while each rail may be able to draw 19 Amps it cant deliver it on all 4 rails at the same time.

Corsair have this handy PSU finder if you want to see what they recomend for your syatem, might save some money and they usually give a choice rather than just one.

http://www.corsair.com/psufinder/default.aspx

Mactronix
a c 130 U Graphics card
April 9, 2009 8:16:39 PM

marco324 said:
the power supply you have should be good add the 2 12v rails and you have 33a
the corsair is excellent ps CORSAIR CMPSU-550VX 550W ATX12V V2.2 --$55 AR FS
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=40&t...



Are you trying to take the piss ? Didnt you read what i posted :) 

Mactronix
April 10, 2009 1:27:37 PM

bite my #ss
a c 130 U Graphics card
April 10, 2009 1:41:16 PM

marco324 said:
bite my #ss


Seriously you should try reading some replies, might stop you giving out incorrect advice to people.

Sorry if you took offense to the way i posted but we do get some sarcastic replies from time to time. The :)  was meant to indicate that it wasnt meant to be offensive and i probably shouldnt have posted it that way in the first place.

Fact still remains that you cant just add the rails together which you would have known or at least challenged if you thought me to be in error (which im not) had you actually read the thread through before posting inacurate advice.

Mactronix ;) 
April 11, 2009 8:00:16 PM

I was repliying to the origanal poster not you
the 2 12v rails could just be split from 1 rail just read a power supply review the other day that said this but can't remember where ? just trying to help only know what i read not an eltronics expert
+12v1 @ 17A
+12v2 @ 16A To be honest i dont understand what +12v1 & +12v2 mean
it was a safety issue when it first came out that more then 20a on the 12v rail could cuase a fire hazard
not a problem anymore
a c 130 U Graphics card
April 11, 2009 8:17:06 PM

As i said i really shouldnt have posted it the way i did and im sorry for any offense caused.
Fact still remains though that i had just posted a rather detailed explanation of just exactly how it does work and explained that you cant just add the rails and why.

The next post is yourself telling the op to just add the rails together.

You must be able to see how that looked ?

Mactronix
April 11, 2009 8:55:25 PM

Here are the facts: A large, single 12-volt rail (without a 240VA limit) can transfer 100% of the 12-volt output from the PSU to the computer, while a multi-rail 12-volt design has distribution losses of up to 30% of the power supply's rating. Those losses occur because power literally gets "trapped" on under-utilized rails. For example, if the 12-volt rail that powers the CPU is rated for 17 amps and the CPU only uses 7A, the remaining 10A is unusable, since it is isolated from the rest of the system.

Since the maximum current from any one 12-volt rail of a multiple-rail PSU is limited to 20 amps (240VA / 12 volts = 20 amps), PCs with high-performance components that draw over 20 amps from the same rail are subject to over-current shutdowns. With power requirements for multiple processors and graphics cards continuing to grow, the multiple-rail design, with its 240VA limit per rail, is basically obsolete.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/245516-28-question-ra...
little easier to understand learn something new every day i didnt know the unused volts from 1 rail where lost
a c 130 U Graphics card
April 11, 2009 9:17:30 PM

Ok lets break this down and really go to school.

1. A large, single 12-volt rail (without a 240VA limit) can transfer 100% of the 12-volt output from the PSU to the computer

Yes it can but you then don't know exactly which component is taking priority on the line and so you don't know how much power you are getting to each component.

2. a multi-rail 12-volt design has distribution losses of up to 30% of the power supply's rating.

Im no rocket scientist but if that's true then how can you get a 80%+ rated PSU ?

3. power literally gets "trapped" on under-utilized rails. For example, if the 12-volt rail that powers the CPU is rated for 17 amps and the CPU only uses 7A, the remaining 10A is unusable, since it is isolated from the rest of the system.

Yep

4. With power requirements for multiple processors and graphics cards continuing to grow, the multiple-rail design, with its 240VA limit per rail, is basically obsolete.

Complete gibberish I'm afraid the whole point of multi rails was to address the very stability problem with the single rail. High end modern Graphics cards use generally two PCIE power cables either 2X6 pin or 1x6pin and 1x8 pin. You know what power is on these rails so you know whats going to the card. Much more desirable than the scenario in point 1

I have no issue with single rail systems as both single and multi rail PSU's have good and bad points, its just not as cut and dry as your last post makes out. Single good Multiple bad is just plain wrong.

You made an honest mistake and i have enlightened you, as you say every day's a schoolday. If you want to know more i am willing to help if i can. I wasnt born knowing this, someone taught it to me the same as im sharing the knowledge with you. Thats what the forums about.

Mactronix :) 
April 11, 2009 10:17:47 PM

wow
!