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Need help choosing the right motherboard

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March 17, 2009 7:26:51 PM

:hello: 

I am looking to get a motherboard that can handle a 2 gig memory, that has 2 graphic card slots, with a telephony, and sound card slot, and ethernet and a bus card slot, and wireless slot and have a processor that has some speed to handle games like FS2004 scenery and or FSX scenery with a 128mb ram of where I can insert a DVD dual layer burner, CD-RW, a Storage drive, and two hard drives doing 250gig or better inserting all this inside the tower and the motherboard be stable and reliable system and be useful for a good 10 years with some capability for expansion and a cache if needed to handle most applications. Additionally I want to use my desktop computer to be able to convert my old records, and my old tapes and transfer it to a DVD like songs or movies I will be using my own windows xp and install my own programs. So I have to start with a good motherboard perhaps dual core?? and then from there choose the right tower and will have to buy a LCD monitor perhaps 21 inch.

I already have the CD-RW, DVD, Maxtor storage, 2 hard drives, a 2.0 bus with 4 inserts, a telephony card a PNY 4200 Ti 8 agp? a wireless card, Can you assist me here on the start up advice pertaining to the motherboard. Currently I have a 8100 1.3 g Dell with the original motherboard still doing fine, IDEE connections etc, the original sound card, telephony. I bought this year 2000 I have just 528 mb memory of ECC RDRAM which is not available anymore. Got my own keyboard and mouse and using a Dell 991 monitor (ancient too) Hope this helps you guys to figure out my system. Would appreciate it. Thanks Daveyo

More about : choosing motherboard

March 17, 2009 8:39:57 PM

wtf is telephony? you wanna be able to call your mother with your computer?

Give us a budget to work with and we can build your system, but I can't even start without a ballpark estimate on how much you want to spend. Do you have any intention to play more recent and graphically demanding games?
March 17, 2009 8:48:42 PM

I googled your "telephony card" and came up with this:
http://reviews.cnet.com/graphics-cards/pny-verto-ti-420...
That is a video card.

So I'm not sure how up to date you are on computers, but your current system is ancient, and today's cheapo budget build computer will blow that PC you use away.
Related resources
March 17, 2009 9:03:06 PM

2 video card slots would be a waste, and almost ANY motherboard can far exceed what else you asked or plan to do with it.
March 17, 2009 9:05:27 PM

IF you want it to function for the longest time, look for a motherboard with all solid polymer capacitors. Electrolitic (older type) tend to dry out and then board will go to sleep forever...
March 18, 2009 5:15:46 AM

Hi

Well granted it is ancient, and secondly I am not a guru by all means on computers, especially pertaining to the motherboard, and this Intel pentium. I have pentium 4 here, and the OEM motherboard coming from Dell back in year 2000 which was a 8100 desktop and 1.3 darn near the top of the line back then, and spent a whopping 1.8 grand for it. This came with a 19 inch monitor dell 991, a tower, the DVD rom reader only, the CD-RW, a camera, a printer and scanner, keyboard and mouse, speakers, the sound card, the telephony card, their basic graphics card the modem and all the software belonging to it and just only basic memory cards and one hard drive and a floppy to boot. This was my first computer folks.

Ever since I had to learn this contraption all on my own, to be able to troubleshoot and install all my own hardware of which I upgraded it somewhat to the PNY ti 4200 DDR, the new current Asus DVD read and write dual layer deal, and getting another ancient DVD-CDRW because the original said bye bye, and got a Maxtor storage backup drive, and a new 2.0 bus speeder. Cannot do much more than that due to this being ancient now.

I took good care of this thing and did cleaning maintenance on it to ensure its condition. With all the rest being the OEM I would have to say this is pretty darn good. Now its 10 years old.

Yes I also installed the wireless card here too, but will use this and the other gadget to hook it up once back in USA, but prefer to use the dial up deal as the way to go to keep costs down.

What do I do, well I usually just browse the internet, deal with my own forum, play with my FS 9 game which I like since I am a 747 mechanic engineer, believe it or not, I know the planes so well but I don't know poop of my very own motherboard. Don't that beat all. The rest is just make copies and files for my records. Gaming on the other stuff will kill my brain. Prefer the slo mo 747 flying so to speak, create my own panels and install my own gauges etc. That is about the entire story here

Budget wise I don't want to lose another arm and leg on the computers buying Vista or that other crap that is sold by the dealers. Prefer to still use what I have that can still be used to save me my pants.

I was thinking of having two medium graphics cards to use for my flight simming to handle the autogen and scenery complexities, and have this up to par and its speed so it not stutter and hang when viewing different areas. This is the part I want to improve on. The other is to increase my memory because I know this plays an important role for the speed of the data computer wise. To my understanding having a good memory of 1 gig or more with a decent graphics and a good chipper on the motherboard with the 2.0 bus does wonders for you.

I also understand Seagate is hitting the pits, which by the way they bought out Maxtor, so WD is the way to go in getting 2 more new hard drives as the one I am using now is reaching 3 years old and will be due soon. Since I am in Thailand at the moment I figure I can buy this stuff here since they are puter happy, I can save a bundle than buying it in USA>

I will buy the hard drive in USA and perhaps the motherboard and chips onless they have the same here from your recommendations cause I not trust some of the Thai stuff if you know what I mean. Towers and the fans no problem, and their DVD hardware seems to do pretty good, including their wireless set up as well. I am trying to get my favorite keyboard from Canada and hopefully it can become a reality.

So getting a motherboard having solid polymer capacitors is a start, and huh no dual graphics card. Not understand.

As of the monitor I need to go to LCD now since I have the ancient analog deal here 19 inch and its heavy to boot. Need to stay 19 inch or better due to my eyes getting bad over time, and now need glasses. Sigh. Absolutely no plasma wanted. LCD would do just fine.

Besides this I want to save the old songs from my records and my movies and also my tapes and put that to the DVD. So I figure it best get a good sound card and something to do with the equalizer and amplifier and reverb to get it just right. Don't know if there is such out in the market, never the less it has to get done some way or another.

Other than that not into super intense gaming like war games or Call of the wild whatever. As you can see. Maybe play some golf or do a bit of racing just to try it out and see if I like it and if the computer can handle it.

I would like to make sure this new setup can handle future releases of the simming games as it gets better with the scenery and autogen and I would like to move all the sliders to the max to get the most of it but it is definitely ram intensive or memory intensive. So I want to make sure this can handle future next 10 years if possible.

Please give me more advice.

Again thanks for your input so far. Appreciate it a lot.

Daveyo
March 18, 2009 7:10:33 AM

Hmm ok well if you want this system to last you 10 years, then the best thing to do is go with the best stuff available right now. Which would be an i7. I will do my best to keep it reasonable:

Nice big monitor, very reasonably priced: 24" Asus
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

PSU: BFG LS550
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

DVD: LG SATA DVD Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

HDD: WD6401AALS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Case: Antec Three Hundred
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Mobo and CPU: Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD3R
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

Ram: OCZ Platinum 6gb
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

OS: I highly recommend Vista home premium 64bit. You doubtlessly heard horror stories of when vista was first released, but since it got SP1, it is a very good OS and I as well as countless others here on this forum will tell you that we have experienced no problems with it whatsoever. Using a 64bit OS will allow you much more memory and costs only $10 more than XP, its definitely worth it.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

GPU: since you aren't an intense gamer, this will do fine, later if you feel like you want more out of it you can add another in crossfire: MSI 4850 512mb
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Sound processors have come a long way since your last system and onboard sound is very good these days. Unless you have a fancy set of 7.1 THX speakers, then you probably won't hear the difference between a $100 sound card and onboard sound

So that comes to about $1360, then you have $85 of MIR. That is the system I would suggest to you for what your goals are, those are all high quality parts. If you were to buy this system from an OEM like dell, you would likely be paying close to what you paid for your last system, if indeed not more. Look around taiwan and see if you can find some better prices, but that is pretty good for here in the US.
March 18, 2009 9:28:08 AM

Hi again

Hmmm, I see the motherboard on the link you gave me and there are two kinds. Which do you recommend?? What is the quad 9870 something all about here which I see a lot of people talking about.

Secondly, the graphics card needs to be good, and quiet and stay cool and hopefully be able to handle complex sceneries etc most especially.

Did I see or understand this correctly that the memory cards are a whopping 6 gigs!!!!! I have now only 512mb eec (error correction type). Nice to have to fix errors in your partitions etc. Oh brother. That is more than adequate memory wise. It will handle my FS 9 game or the FSX game easy as pie. At the same token you need a graphics card to handle the speed and scenery traffic just as fast. I would think so correct me if I am wrong.

I wanted to get two hard drives, so having one at 650gig is a bit too much because if it breaks down bye bye to your files. I would think 300 each should suffice and it be divided into 4 partitions.. Any suggestions of which to get here on the WD side cheap but reliable and stable . Then I can use my Maxtor drive storage here 160gig and back everything up via snapshot of my main most important files and private data. I can always burn some 8.7 DVD's to have for the rest if needed and also have that in case the storage should ever fail on me. Seems burning the DVD's dual layer 8.7g's is the way to go to ensure you are really backed up all the time.

The case looks good and I do need a lot of cooling since I am in the hot zone with temps constantly hovering near 100 degrees 10 months of the year.

So, for a motherboard I do believe I do need something that stays cool and also not be so power hungry and is able to digest and deal with loads easily with room to spare without over clocking it.

Hmmm, speaking of the power, what power box can handle all this and keep the voltage reasonable. I use either 120 v supply or currently using a converter here from 220 to 120. Thailand does not have grounded systems here which is scary indeed. So I made them insert a ground here and wired up the lines and these Thais got bent out of shape.

I do plan to return back to USA eventually soon enough which is not that far away, so that is nice.

Need to find a pure CD-RW only. I already have the ASUS DVD read and write plus/minus dual layer and bluetooth drive. Don't need another DVD since I am using a used one here that has the CD-RW incorporated into the device. The CD-RW is very essential to my understanding because the XP programs and all your installation discs have to be read by a CD-RW and not on a DVD ASUS like I have. It simply does not work and cannot boot into it either. The-CD-RW is a bootable drive. Go figure.

As of the main core windows, I prefer the XP Pro and can get it to run 64 bit which is not a problem. I have all the genuine installation discs, office and the sp 1,2,3 etc. It has done me very well and it is extremely very stable as long as you don't overload this program with all the over 100 darn patches and security fixes that Micro has put out. Sheeeeeeeesh.

I don't want to touch VISTA at all and prefer to stay away from it. Perhaps and maybe true to form their SP 1 may have corrected it but still there is not that much difference between that and XP Pro. XP home has problems and not that stable. Vista is more like a tweeker to some extent with some areas having a different platform, otherwise it still follows the same like XP Pro. The Vista I know causes a lot of problems to flight simming either FS 2004 and FSX. It will not play FS 2002 because that is a different hard coded deal.

So I will take a pass on Vista and the FSX for now and wait until they come up with a better flight simming game and a better and more stable windows program that can beat the XP pro for the most part without being forced to alter so much hardware and etc's involved.

Can someone explain to me about this SATA and ATA hard drives and its difference. I am using IDEE ATA hard drives now. Also I understand some of these hard drives have noise problems. So which one is a proven and reliable hard drive that can last beyond 4 years and not fail. doing nearly 24/7 most of the time which I am on the puter more than you think due to my forum, and of the discovery cure in the CNS against Canine Distemper. Yes this is a fully curable disease now. So Dr. Sears and I are pioneers behind it and slowly the word is getting out.

By the way does this intel motherboard have all solid polymer capacitors as one person here mentioned???. And does it have a dual graphics pci slots so it can handle two graphic applications??? I know some of you have said not needed but the option is worthwhile though for future expansion if needed.

What about Athlon ???? Is this good and comparable to Intel????

Thanks

Daveyo













March 18, 2009 9:37:13 AM

xthekidx said:
wtf is telephony? you wanna be able to call your mother with your computer?

Give us a budget to work with and we can build your system, but I can't even start without a ballpark estimate on how much you want to spend. Do you have any intention to play more recent and graphically demanding games?


I sure chuckled on your comment using a telephony to be able to call my mother etc.

That was a good laugh.

Actually I am the last survivor on my family line, no bros or sis, no aunts or uncles, and the only link is to a distant cousin about 5 generations back living in Slovenia. Both parents gone etc. So I am all alone in this forsaken planet and the only current family I got is my Doxies having their siesta at the moment.

Thanks for giving me something to laugh and I do appreciate it warmly.

Daveyo
March 18, 2009 10:03:41 AM

Heh. Times have changed for sure since you were in the computer world. Athalon's are old slow and crap compared to what is now currently available, you only consider those if you are seriously pinching pennies. I don't know what CPU you are talking about. AMD's flagship CPU right now is the Phenom II X4 940, which pales in comparison to the i7 920. The Intel Flagship CPU is the i7 965 Extreme, which costs $1k USD by itself. Out of your price range I think...Besides you can OC the 920 to outperform it by a good margin if you really want that performance.

As far as XP 64 goes, there is not a lot of support for it since it is not a very common OS, most people use Vista 64 if they use a 64bit OS...so I guess that is your call. You know my opinion on it. XP Pro 64 tends to be buggy from what I hear.

On the Mobo, There is an SLI version and a Crossfire version, one works with dual ATI cards, the other with Dual Nvidia cards. Pick the one that will support the company you chose for GPU's. That mobo uses very high quality parts and should last you a long time, I can't find the actual technical specs of it on the gigabyte website but I'm pretty sure it uses the highest quality capacitors, 50,000 hour MTBF Japanese Capacitors is what the website says. That mobo is also constructed to stay as cool as possible. It's a very good quality product.

If you want really good graphics rendering on that monitor I showed you, then I would either go with a GTX 285:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Or Perhaps a 4850x2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Although this depends completely on the resolution of monitor you will use. A larger monitor like the one I showed you that runs at 1920x1080 needs a lot more power than a 19" 1440x900. I don't think the games you play are particularly graphics demanding, although you may think they are in comparison to the other games you play...technology changes FAST. I think you would be alright with the 4850, but by stepping it up your gaming will only get better :) 

And the PSU is also related to that. Higher end cards need better power supplies. If you want to be able to SLI the GTX 285 (which is what I would suggest you do) then go with a Corsair 850tx
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Although the one I showed you would work for just 1 GTX 285.

So if you wanted smaller HDD's I'd look at these, WD tends to be the most reliable HDD manufacturer:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Although the HDD I showed you earlier will be faster than that one, the Caviar Black series is one of the fastest HDD's available.

Sata is the new interface that replaced IDE like you use. It just uses smaller cables that restrict airflow less than those wide IDE's, speed wise I think they are pretty similar.

I think Plain CD drives are no longer in production, all DVD drives will be able to burn and write CD's just like a CD drive could, but can also do the same for DVD's. I have not heard problems with with DVD drives not being able to boot install disks...perhaps it is just something unique to the ASUS drive you have? Asus drives are not particularly known for high quality...

So hopefully that answered some questions.
March 18, 2009 10:12:28 AM

So here is my reasoning behind the 4850 GPU suggestion:

You are using an AGP Geforce 4200 GPU right now...which is ancient. Low end cheapo video cards and even onboard video will be better. A 4850 is probably 10x quite possibly more faster than what you have now. If you can play your games on that GPU, then I am certain the 4850 will be amazing. I am pretty sure that the jump from your old system to this new one will be a huge shock. Going from a P4 1.3ghz single core, Geforce 4200 AGP, 512mb of DDR ram to a Quad-core/octo-threaded i7, 6gb DDR3 1600mhz ram, GTX 285 is about as large a leap as can be made. The GPU can be the most expensive part of the system, so I went with a fairly mainstream GPU because you said you didn't want to lose any more limbs building this thing.

BTW I am very impressed you got that Dell to last 10 years, that is incredible. I think most last 5 or so, if that. OEM's genterally use the cheapest/low quality parts and mark up the price so that they can make a profit. The rig you are looking into building will use much higher quality parts than any OEM manufacturer, and far cheaper than what they would charge you for it.
March 18, 2009 1:55:24 PM

Hi Xthe

Yes and taking good care of it does go a long way. The secret is keeping the dust off the parts and taking it out at least twice a year and using compressed air to blow it off. I do not use brushes of any kind because just a small tiny hair from that brush can cause you a super major headache if it sticks on anything.

Ok just talked to my friend at CDW and I got lucky again. He happens to have just only one pure CD-RW left and is saving it for me. Wow. None left at all. None in Thailand at all.

That PNY when I bought it, it was the last one in the market from Toms Hardware back in 2006!!!!. And I got a nice deal just 25 bucks!!!!!!! Whereas others paid hundreds when it was popular. Shoot, I got lucky on that one too and it is still going strong. Keeping it up with the Nvidia drivers.

Anyway my friend has some Hitachi HDD of 300 gig each. Nothing in the WD side, and Seagate is untouchable due to their crappy business and tech deals. Maxtor by itself made darn good HDD's and it lasted max 4.5 years that I knew of. So when Seagate took the company, down went Maxtor for good. Happens all the time.

Here is what I have to do Xthe > I got to try to stay on the same setup for the transfer from my old system to the new system and maintain that IDEE connections most importantly. Can't part away from that and go Sata, otherwise all the current hardware becomes moot and it will cost me. Based on what you told me on the connecting deal on above previous message.

So now I know I have to get a motherboard that uses IDEE connections for my HDD's, my ASUS DVD R/W plus minus dual layer, my DVD and CD-RW drive, my Floppy unit, and my Maxtor storage. and will get the pure CD-RW unit. So I am hung here or the cost will drive up the sky.

Like I said I already got the 2.0 bus with 5 additional USB slots, already have the wireless card and unit, and the telephony card and perhaps the ethernet too. The ethernet I never use anyway.

My budget it tight indeed cause I need to save money to get home back to USA and I am ahem retired too. So the upgrade will be the motherboard, the memory and the LCD, and perhaps upgrade my sound card and graphics card if needed and the rest remains the same.

Since there is so much heat being generated by these new motherboards, and graphics too, I was thinking to get a nice big roomy tower with lots of room to spare and it has filters to catch all the dust before it enters inside. That itself is a nice piece to protect the system overall. Dust is what kills the sytem time and time again.

The one you mentioned has this filter and that really caught my eye literally because it is one of the things I have been trying to figure out on how to do it on the current tower. So if you know of a tower that is big and roomy and has filters to catch the dust and fans to give it excellent air flow all the time top, front side and rear, please let me know.

Heat is the worst enemy to pc boards and the chips. I was shocked to read one post by someone that it was cooking at 75C!!!!!!! That is around 150 degrees my friend. Extremely very hot.

Now at that temps if it is dry air no problem as it will tolerate OK. But add just 10% humidity, and then you will feel that heat. Add more humidity, and it gets hotter. I was in Vegas one time when I was young, and saw the temps cooking at around 126 degrees, yet I did not even feel it at all. It was pure dry air. But the floor of the car was definitely cooking your feet right thru the shoes on way to Vegas, and then especially the sidewalk as well when we got out. Then I saw someone crack an egg and put it on the ground and it was fully cooked and scrambled in about 8 minutes. Unbelievable. This is one trip I will never forget. So where was everybody. In the Pools. None gambling at all. Go figure.

Anyway so based on your expertise and also after talking to my friend at CDW, I believe we have to get a motherboard that can ensure a smooth transition from the current hardware I have to the new tower and it still be darn good and reliable and meets all the other expectations that you being an expert would want I suppose and still have that huh whopping 6 gig memory. Man bro, I still cannot get over that huge memory you told me. Still in shock. So if I get that SATA motherboard I am SOL on my current hardware. So this itself is what determined my decision. Got to stick with the IDEE setup to keep my costs down.

I will probably more likely use the dial up internet more than the wireless, since the only time I will ever need any speed is for downloads. Other than that a dial up internet will do me just fine.

OK will check out your suggestions. and if you can finally put all this together now that we know what we have to do, let me know. OK

Again thanks for your time and your expertise and suggestions. I should send over to you a 6 pack of beer but don't know how. Awesome.

Daveyo







March 18, 2009 2:16:19 PM

Oh Xthe

By the way I meant XP Pro 32. Man sometimes Micro even confuses me too. They have 32,64 and 86 flying around. Funny tho when my computer powers up I see 64 ram on the top left corner concerning under the Video Graphics so I was thinking mine is 64 bit. Not sure. To my understanding everything else in my computer here is 32. Hmmmmm

I do know the 32 is very stable pertaining to XP Pro. Never crashed at all. But lately I have been seeing my system hang up once in awhile and that LED light is really flashing a lot during that incident.

If I recall correctly that indicates to me that the HDD is getting ready to go. Some subtle signs begin to show, and then pow it happens without warning.

That is why I decided to make my move now rather than get caught between Laurel and Hardy. Just squeezing out of that will shoot me out to have a visit with the Blues Brothers.

Sigh

Daveyo

March 18, 2009 2:19:58 PM

hmmm well IDE is quite old...I'm not really sure of many mobo's that support it much anymore. Most mobo's have 1 IDE connector, the rest is all sata...kinda the thing now, luckily though for people who like to hang onto their old components (like you) there are IDE to Sata converters which you can pick up for about $15.

Ok so how much exactly can you spend on this PC, and just to make things simpler can you list all the components of your current PC that you want to reuse? Are you planning on reusing your current license of windows on this new rig? Because that is programmed into the mobo as well as the HDD, so you can't just take an HDD with an OS and connect it to a new mobo unless you bought a retail copy of the OS (not an OEM license from Dell). If it is a retail version then it can transfer PC's.

So the thing is that since you are the type of person to hang onto a PC for 10 years, the best plan of action is to go with the latest technology if you want your next one to do the same. But if you cannot afford the latest and greatest out there, you can still build a great system. The i7 platform comes with about a $200 price premium over the other platforms available because it necessitates using DDR3 memory (which is more expensive than the much more common DDR2), Using an X58 Chipset (newest and best chipset currently available so comes with a high price), and an i7 CPU which starts at about $300. If it is possible to make an i7 work for you, then it is what you should do, but there are much cheaper and still very good options out there besides the i7.
March 18, 2009 5:20:10 PM

xthekidx said:
hmmm well IDE is quite old...I'm not really sure of many mobo's that support it much anymore. Most mobo's have 1 IDE connector, the rest is all sata...kinda the thing now, luckily though for people who like to hang onto their old components (like you) there are IDE to Sata converters which you can pick up for about $15.

Ok so how much exactly can you spend on this PC, and just to make things simpler can you list all the components of your current PC that you want to reuse? Are you planning on reusing your current license of windows on this new rig? Because that is programmed into the mobo as well as the HDD, so you can't just take an HDD with an OS and connect it to a new mobo unless you bought a retail copy of the OS (not an OEM license from Dell). If it is a retail version then it can transfer PC's.

So the thing is that since you are the type of person to hang onto a PC for 10 years, the best plan of action is to go with the latest technology if you want your next one to do the same. But if you cannot afford the latest and greatest out there, you can still build a great system. The i7 platform comes with about a $200 price premium over the other platforms available because it necessitates using DDR3 memory (which is more expensive than the much more common DDR2), Using an X58 Chipset (newest and best chipset currently available so comes with a high price), and an i7 CPU which starts at about $300. If it is possible to make an i7 work for you, then it is what you should do, but there are much cheaper and still very good options out there besides the i7.


Hi Xthe

Ah you just saved my day. IDEE to Sata converters. Cool, then I am back in business. Damn don't that beat all. Whew. I sure got kinda very worried for awhile.

Before getting to what I am going to save, I have this for the operating system


My old windows original ME contains the license inside that CD. I have to basically install this first, and get that up and running. This alone gets imprinted to the new mobo and it installs it as a FAT 32 system. Then I take my windows XP Pro upgraded version and presto it reads the original license and the XP Pro gets formated to the NTFS system and I can partition the new HDD's and it is good to go. No problem since I got it from Dell the Reinstallation ME CD.

I can install the XP Pro outright without the ME but it is going to ask for that ME CD to extract that license. If it not have it, yes it will install and I have to call MS for the codes to make it genuine and ready to go. This is not a problem at all. It is the next paragraph that can be a problem because I am scared of it the most.

Then with this new Mobo, I have to flash the CPU unit for it to run the XP for its latest drivers. Great care has to be done here because one mistake, kiss the CPU goodbye. To flash it you need a floppy disc. I did this only once back in 2000 and today cannot even remember how to do it, but saved the printed material of which I have to dig it up from my files and study up on it a bit etc. Also I will not do this alone. I will call up either Dell or Micro for a tech via phone to ensure the steps are properly done as I do it. This is the only part I am scared the most is flashing that CPU. If the drivers are not correct it also goes bye bye. This by far is the most critical part of the sytem itself. Basically its heart so to speak. You only need to do this just once and its for the life of the CPU. The rest of the programming is a piece of cake.

The one thing that people do not know is if you remove that motherboard battery the CPU memory goes dead and you have to reset it again which is not a problem. When you turn off your computer and the main power, that little battery keeps the CPU alive like a wrist watch.
These batteries last about 3-4 years. I changed mine back in oh darn in 2006. It will be due soon. How about that, just happen to now remember that this is due too.

OK this is the list I am saving and each one has the IDEE connector slot. My old motherboard has 3 IDEE slots

The Hitachi and Maxtor ATA 133 HDD (2 of them) Both go to one IDEE slot
The ASUS DVD dual layer plus/minus read write and the
The DVD Rom and CD-RW (go to the second IDEE slot)
The Maxtor Storage backup hard drive. (I have a USB slot for this one)
The new CD-RW I am getting from CDW and
The floppy disc drive (go to the third IDEE slot)

The others are, my 2.0 4 USB slots, My wireless card, my telephony and will need a new sound card eventually, and graphics card. Other than that I don't see anything else here besides the keyboard, mouse and camera, with my printer and scanner.

The new upgrade stuff will be the LCD monitor, a new motherboard, and new memory cards, plus the IDEE to SATA converter, and SATA to IDEE converter, and the sound card. I can add the graphics to this deal. Last of all a new power source and a nice size tower with fans & filters to collect that nasty dust and plenty of space and room inside to dissipate the heat better in keeping the inside temps cool.

I think this covers it.




So I would need probably two or three IDEE to Sata converters and I am in business for future changes as time goes along moving gradually to the full SATA system.

The way I understand now if I buy the SATA HDD's being two WD then I will need a SATA to IDEE converter which again will be ok for my old system as I can still use the new HDD until the new system is built.

I know that they have terabyte HDD's but gosh, for what I do and for most people, this will never be needed. It is great for one who has tons of files to keep like a business such as CDW but for my personal use naw and yet again lo and behold as you read below.

I also have to keep in mind about the HDD's. If say I get the 300gig, OK (the manufacturers will never tell you this) but technically that HDD is fully functional at top speed for up to 150 gig and it will last a long time. After this and beyond 50% it begins to decline and to begin to work harder. When it reaches approximately 70% to 75% capacity, it pretty much basically has reached its limit and you lucky to get maybe 4 years out of it. Past this point the breakdowns begin and it gets noticeable over time. I know because I experienced this myself.

So now I look at my computer and see how much is used and add it up and then add another 50 gigs to it. From there I double it and that is the HDD I have to get to have a nice smooth HDD having no problems. Right now I have 246 gigs of data used. This means I need approximately about 500 gig HDD to function. So I am reaching the 600 barrier without a doubt. So that is why I am choosing two 300 gig HDD and I might opt to go to two 350 to make it 700 to cover any additional data as time goes on. Believe it or not just looking at this I am approaching that terabyte level. Wow. To date since I got my puter, I don't think I have ever reached that 300 gig level data wise. I might have been darn close. I will know in a few more days though.

Hope this information helps you make the final gizmo determination for my new built from scratch computer.

Let me know if you need further information. I have the original package list of the puter I bought that is more detailed.

Again thanks for your help and input.

Daveyo
































March 18, 2009 8:55:29 PM

You don't have to worry about flashing the bios...the mobo you get will support the CPU right out of the box.

So I know you really want to hang onto those drives...but the new HDD's that are out now are going to be substantially faster than your old IDE's...probably 5400rpm too right? You can clone your drives to new ones and use them in the new system.

So it sounds like maybe you are thinking you won't be building this PC just yet...when exactly do you plan on building? The reason I ask is because technology changes very fast, as do the prices for that technology. I built my system 3 months ago and it cost me $1600, now you can build it for $1400 maybe less if you hunted for a deal.
March 18, 2009 10:31:19 PM

The main Hard drives were and always been the 7200 rpm.

I prefer to have two of them cause you never know when one breaks down and I like to have partitions to separate everything which takes the load off that drive.

Oh I am thinking of building it this year step by step as my money becomes available

What I would like to do is if you can give me a decent list of just what I need based on what I previously told you, I want to take a look to see what they have in Thailand as my first stop shopping.

Xthe, the prices here is practically half of what it sells in USA.

That monitor you gave me I think I can get it for around 150 bucks, not sure so I also see the 22 inchers as well.

Can you give me the options like this for a 10 year longevity type system

One being the latest and least espensive item and one being the minimum that would meet my particular needs. This way I have some options

Example I see Graphics cards of GeForce 9600 GT 512/256 flipping between 54 to 104 dollars certainly makes me wonder between apollo vs EVGA. Yet when I look at the chart wow it is not that far from the top.

Also on the monitor, well man o man. how much is it a difference between 2ns vs 8ns They go from 2 to 5 on newegg, yet they recommend 8 or better. Which way is better more or less. Very vague indeed.

Now it costs more on the 2ns, verses a 5ns . Would I notice anything really spectacular????

Here is what I was looking at:

ViewSonic X Series VX2265wm Black 22" 3ms(GTG), 5ms 120Hz 3D Ready Widescreen LCD Monitor Built in Speakers

They have a lot of ASUS here of any screen size. Asus and ACER are very popular here as well as their stupid Seagate. HP seems to park all their goods here for some reason from printers, scanners to most anything. But then again, do Thais know any better since they still think like kids. Notebooks ah man they sell this like no tommorrow. Also mobile phones here is the so called in thing. No thai is without a mobile phone. If they don't have one, they lose face among their peers.

However very few Thai people here have the Genuine stuff. I got me a genuine Macromedia all in one OEM CD with all the goodies in it and bought it from a Thai store for only 25 bucks. I also knew that this particular CD was worth over 400 usa dollars. The PC store owner did not realize it at the time, and thought no problem OK I sell it to you. Did not say much except to say thanks and stuffed it into the bag and left knowing I got lucky. Went home to check on it and whew it was indeed genuine and I was a bit in shock and got myself the best price deal probably in S.E. Asia. Sometimes you can bump into this once in awhile. In any rate most of their Windows are generic versions copy upon copy you know. Courtesy of China.

In concern of about my ASUS DVD plus/minus dual layer, it is a good one. Made in Taiwan. The people in Taiwan make very good products as well as Japan. You know the cameras sold etc, most of it is from Japan like Nikon etc.

What does USA have???? Made genuinely all in USA. I wonder today. Besides John Deere equiptment. One of them ended up sitting on top of the tree next to the Highway. A huge combine, and somehow when I saw it at first I had to stop my car since there was so many people looking at it. I was stunned when I looked up and then looked at the semi, and the semi was in shambles. The Combine just sat there perfectly balanced a good 100 feet up and not a dent on it, the glass perfect, the blades totally straight etc. I ended up laughing my ass off for the rest of the day. The Thai people sure were blabbing it away in deep discussions. Incredible, knowing they needed to get two cranes to take it down. They must have some darn good drivers here that would totally destroy the semi, yet save the Combine machine made from John Deere.

Stories, oh that I have. If I told you you would laugh all day. Another is about a car in Hong Kong driven by a farmer all dressed up taking his large family to a Sunday Church. 8 people in this one. Till next message.

Yea I want to build this but I got to have the data to do it and then do some shopping here to see what is available to save me some money.

Do appreciate your help.

Daveyo
















March 19, 2009 3:22:09 AM

Ok well that list I gave you is a pretty decent and cheaper i7 build, and as time goes on over this next year prices will continue to drop. I wouldn't buy new parts for your new computer though until you are ready to buy them all at the same time, as the prices will continue to drop. There are some things, like the Case and Power supply, which will not fluctuate in price, but just about everything else will be cheaper if you wait a few months until you are actually ready to rebuild.

OK so if you didn't want to have to wait as long to rebuild and were OK with using components that weren't quite top of the line, but still very good (and will probably get you more for your money since they aren't the top of the line thing) then I will suggest a different build for you. Since you are not going to be able to use Newegg I will just give you some options as I don't know what is available around you:

CPU:
AMD Phenom II x4 940 BE

Motherboard Choices: any of these would work and are good solid products using very high quality parts
GIGABYTE GA-MA790X-UD4P, GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-UD4H, ASUS M4A78-E, ASUS M3A78-T

Ram: look for something that is DDR2-800 or DDR2-1066 with latencies 5-5-5-15 or lower and running at 1.8-1.9v
G Skill HK DDR2-800 CL4

HDD: WD3200AAKS Western Digital Caviar SE16 320GB

Optical: Reuse

Case: any of these are good cases for their price, and offer excellent cooling and airflow
Antec 300, CoolerMaster RC-690, Antec 900, CoolerMaster Storm Sniper (more expensive but has super airflow to cool your components), Antec P182 (if you want something that is quiet, tends to be more expensive).

Video Card: For the games you play this will be a bit overkill, but your games will look great
Saphire HD 4870 1GB (brand doesn't matter so much, try to get the 1gb version of this GPU if you can as it will help on a larger screen, but the 512 will do well too. Saphire is a good brand for these though).

PSU: This depends on whether or not you think you will run 2 video cards in the future or just one. For just one:
BFG LS-550 550w PSU
For two 4870's in crossfire:
Corsair 850tx or 750TX or PC Power & Cooling 750w or Seasonic M12D SS-750 750w

CPU Cooler (as you said, heat kills over time. Getting a CPU cooler will ensure that your CPU will last longer than if you just use the stock HSF)
Xigmatek HDT-S1283, Scythe Mugen 2, Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme (with this heatsink you can do a mild overclock of the CPU and get more perfomance out of it, while still keeping the temperatures below what you would normally get using the stock HSF).



Now if you chose to do an Intel build instead of an AMD but didn't want to go i7, then you can use all of those above components but just change the motherboard and CPU

Motherboards: I like to stick with Asus and Gigabyte for quality parts.
If you will only use 1 Video card and will not add another later, then get these: Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R, Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3L, ASUS P5Q SE PLUS, ASUS P5Q
If you think you will crossfire: Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P, Asus P5Q PRO, Asus P5Q-E

CPU's: Since you want this to last 10 years the you need to go quad
Q9400, Q9450, Q9550, Q9650 (in order from cheapest to most expensive. All are priced fairly well according to the performance they offer. However if you want it to last for a long time, then you should get the best one available.)

So there you go. Personally if I were you and couldn't afford the i7, then I would go with the Phenom II AMD build above. AMD is currently producing new chips for that socket AM2+/AM3, whereas the Intel LGA 775 probably won't see any more new chips, as Intel has moved on to new chips using a different chipset. The thing is though that right now, Phenom II Quad CPU's aren't as fast as the Intel Core 2 Quad CPU's, clock for clock (the Q9650 and Phenom II x4 940 both run at 3.0ghz, but the Q9650 is faster). Once AMD releases more processors though they will exceed the performance of the Core 2 line of Chips, and you will be able to upgrade to one of those chips later. If you wouldn't upgrade the CPU ever, then go with the Intel Q9650.
March 19, 2009 6:18:38 AM

xthekidx said:
Ok well that list I gave you is a pretty decent and cheaper i7 build, and as time goes on over this next year prices will continue to drop. I wouldn't buy new parts for your new computer though until you are ready to buy them all at the same time, as the prices will continue to drop. There are some things, like the Case and Power supply, which will not fluctuate in price, but just about everything else will be cheaper if you wait a few months until you are actually ready to rebuild.

OK so if you didn't want to have to wait as long to rebuild and were OK with using components that weren't quite top of the line, but still very good (and will probably get you more for your money since they aren't the top of the line thing) then I will suggest a different build for you. Since you are not going to be able to use Newegg I will just give you some options as I don't know what is available around you:

CPU:
AMD Phenom II x4 940 BE

Motherboard Choices: any of these would work and are good solid products using very high quality parts
GIGABYTE GA-MA790X-UD4P, GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-UD4H, ASUS M4A78-E, ASUS M3A78-T

Ram: look for something that is DDR2-800 or DDR2-1066 with latencies 5-5-5-15 or lower and running at 1.8-1.9v
G Skill HK DDR2-800 CL4

HDD: WD3200AAKS Western Digital Caviar SE16 320GB

Optical: Reuse

Case: any of these are good cases for their price, and offer excellent cooling and airflow
Antec 300, CoolerMaster RC-690, Antec 900, CoolerMaster Storm Sniper (more expensive but has super airflow to cool your components), Antec P182 (if you want something that is quiet, tends to be more expensive).

Video Card: For the games you play this will be a bit overkill, but your games will look great
Saphire HD 4870 1GB (brand doesn't matter so much, try to get the 1gb version of this GPU if you can as it will help on a larger screen, but the 512 will do well too. Saphire is a good brand for these though).

PSU: This depends on whether or not you think you will run 2 video cards in the future or just one. For just one:
BFG LS-550 550w PSU
For two 4870's in crossfire:
Corsair 850tx or 750TX or PC Power & Cooling 750w or Seasonic M12D SS-750 750w

CPU Cooler (as you said, heat kills over time. Getting a CPU cooler will ensure that your CPU will last longer than if you just use the stock HSF)
Xigmatek HDT-S1283, Scythe Mugen 2, Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme (with this heatsink you can do a mild overclock of the CPU and get more perfomance out of it, while still keeping the temperatures below what you would normally get using the stock HSF).



Now if you chose to do an Intel build instead of an AMD but didn't want to go i7, then you can use all of those above components but just change the motherboard and CPU

Motherboards: I like to stick with Asus and Gigabyte for quality parts.
If you will only use 1 Video card and will not add another later, then get these: Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R, Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3L, ASUS P5Q SE PLUS, ASUS P5Q
If you think you will crossfire: Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P, Asus P5Q PRO, Asus P5Q-E

CPU's: Since you want this to last 10 years the you need to go quad
Q9400, Q9450, Q9550, Q9650 (in order from cheapest to most expensive. All are priced fairly well according to the performance they offer. However if you want it to last for a long time, then you should get the best one available.)

So there you go. Personally if I were you and couldn't afford the i7, then I would go with the Phenom II AMD build above. AMD is currently producing new chips for that socket AM2+/AM3, whereas the Intel LGA 775 probably won't see any more new chips, as Intel has moved on to new chips using a different chipset. The thing is though that right now, Phenom II Quad CPU's aren't as fast as the Intel Core 2 Quad CPU's, clock for clock (the Q9650 and Phenom II x4 940 both run at 3.0ghz, but the Q9650 is faster). Once AMD releases more processors though they will exceed the performance of the Core 2 line of Chips, and you will be able to upgrade to one of those chips later. If you wouldn't upgrade the CPU ever, then go with the Intel Q9650.


Hi Xthe

Did you by any chance check out that Viewsonic Monitor. Need your opinion on it.

The reason I see this one is about the resolution rate both vertical and Horizontal. Because of the way my eyes are, Refresh rates at 85 just barely makes it due to my eyesight. I am doing now 100 and its fine. Below 85, I can see the lines flipping because my eyes are blue. Yep and its annoying as hell.

I do see many LCD monitors topping max at around 80 to 83 refresh rates. Might be a problem there.

Might have to lower the LCD a bit down to perhaps maybe a 22 or near 23 deal. Not sure yet as I do not have your opinion on it yet.

I need more Monitor suggestions and Ram suggestions to put this package together and get it lined up. Once I do that, then I will make a post here and you can then review it and do some thinking on my behalf for my needs and for the 10 year duration deal.

Budget 1 k is tops.

Yes I will look here in Thailand first if they have the exact deals as you mentioned here. If not, then off to USA to check on CDW and or Newegg.

I have to be careful on the Monitor and power requirements. Thailand uses different power than USA. So I have to make sure it is 110 and 220 volt compatibility and 50-60 herts compatibility. I know Thailand makes all the power units for computers. If you not believe me take a look.

I see on my old Dell system here made in Thailand, and lo and behold it is still being sold!!!! Same style and everything and specs, even 10 years later. Amazing.

Yea I sort of agree that Dell or Gateway sell cheap parts to you and charge you to the sky. So from what you told me, and of what I found out, I have to consider that my unit lasting 10 years from Dell is a miracle all by itself.

OK another post coming up, and if possible can you tell me the rest of the above questions and give some possible answers.

Daveyo
March 19, 2009 6:31:27 AM

That monitor is a very nice monitor and goes for over $350 here in the US, if you can get it dirt cheap over there in thailand then go for it. As far as response time goes, 5ms or less is what you want for games. 8ms will be alright but for fast action you can tell its a bit slow. Once you hit 5ms though its really tough to tell, I can't see the difference between 2ms and 5ms.

What websites would you order from in thailand, or is it just a local computer store? I'd like to take a look and see what you have available to you.
March 19, 2009 6:42:03 AM

To Xthe:

When I was in Hong Kong I was visiting a friend of mine who was an executive of a export company. Anyway both of us were looking at the intersection this particular morning and saw and heard the rear end collison at a traffic intersection which pushed the front car up to the middle of the intersection. We both went down to check on it.

As we get there well this car was a old ancient puppy. The front was pretty well smashed in and radiator and fan crushed. So it cannot travel any further. Then I see the guy with his family all dressed up to specs for a nice Sunday Church outing and they all got out of the car. Talked a bit to them, So we pushed the car and went to a side road that the guy suggested so he can park this car. After we did this, and started talking the father in the meantime was acting frantically inside the car trying to do something.

The next thing we see is the car started to roll down the driveway road and is heading smack towards a big wooden garage with double doors on it. So we ran to the car and grabbed the rear bumper and tried to slow the car down and get it to stop and our feet kept sliding on the ground. The next thing that happenned was the entire rear bumper came off and we ended up plopped right on our asses with the bumper on our laps and we were completely stunned to boot. So we see the car moving faster and knew it was going to smash the garage. It hit the doors, and the car made a another crash inside and then finally one piece of glass fell down to the ground from the door frame once everything settled down a minute later. It was dark inside so we could not see precisely what took place. In the meantime the entire family looked in complete horror to what is happening to the car and the garage etc. The owner of that garage finally came over and saw what happenned and was in shock. He says he has a very expensive car inside, worth thousands of dollars. So my frind and I and the owner of the garage felt so bad for the Sunday outing family. So this kid a boy that is behind us about 7-8 years old finally speaks up and blurted out saying the following> That is not even our car!!!!!!

We then look at him and busted out laughing our butts off, while the bumper still on our laps, because all that time we thought the family owned the car and the owner of that garage also cracked up literally thinking of the same thing. Then the father comes out of the garage holding a wheel belonging to the car and looked completely pertrified and in shock walking up to us still holding the steering wheel and its remains. Again we continued laughing and believe me we could not stop for the rest of the day. My friend and I got up and dropped the bumper and then walked away laughing so hard my tummy hurt really bad. Could not eat or drink without busting out time and time again.

So, we Left the place and left the driver and his family to deal with it and we pitied the owner of that car that was borrowed because it was completely destroyed. The car that got pushed ahead in the intersection decided to leave well enough alone and his damage was not that extensive.

What a day it was in Hong Kong for a family who borrowed someone else's car and it ended up completely wiped out in just one nice Sunday Church morning. Even today I still chuckle and cannot ever forget it either.

Daveyo
March 19, 2009 1:48:48 PM

xthekidx said:
That monitor is a very nice monitor and goes for over $350 here in the US, if you can get it dirt cheap over there in thailand then go for it. As far as response time goes, 5ms or less is what you want for games. 8ms will be alright but for fast action you can tell its a bit slow. Once you hit 5ms though its really tough to tell, I can't see the difference between 2ms and 5ms.

What websites would you order from in thailand, or is it just a local computer store? I'd like to take a look and see what you have available to you.


Hi Xthe :hello: 

First hope the Hong Kong story brightened up your day. Still chuckle on it even now.

As of Thailand, you can use the search engine, type the following Asus Thailand, and Acer Thailand, and Intel Thailand. You can even try to see if MSI or EVGA is in Thailand. Have not yet done it, because I have been trying all afternoon and this evening still looking at all the information you gave me previously.

As I was researching, I see that Gigabyte and Asus in USA are having a lot of negative feedback on the customer base side. One person bought 3 dead Asus motherboards in a row, and the other people cannot seem to get any customer support.

So I have elected to stick with Intel for the brand name on the motherboard and will be shying away from Gigabyte and Asus, even though you suggested it. I don't want to chance it. If something goes wrong I need a company who will stand by and help and give support and be diligent to respond.

Here is one motherboard that blew my mind and it has everything to desire, and is great for now and in the future and is cool with the PCI and has SATA slots and Graphic slots and is Quad supported etc including you able to adjust the horizontal and vertical refresh hertz up to 120, but there is a small sticker shock to it.

Intel BOXD5400XS Dual LGA 771 Intel 5400(Skulltrail) Extended ATX Motherboard - Retail
The cost is $600 dollars.

Was looking at this motherboard as follows

Intel BOXDP43TF LGA 775 Intel P43 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail and it costs just 100 bucks.

Putting the Q9550 and this should be just fine I would think.


Newegg discontinued the Thermalright Ultra 120 so now I don't know where to get that, so the next best one is Scythe Mugen 2 for 50 dollars or less. Otherwise I will look at Taiwan where it originated the Thermalright.

Honestly with all these motherboards out there, I am LOST. So my first instinct is to stick with a good known name brand and company having a decent track history and customer support and that is INTEL and avoid all the others.

I do know some supervisors personally who work for Intel in Manila Philippines. Not sure if I can pull off a dejavu and get that $600 dolla board for less than half price. Have to call them provided they are still there since this was 10 years ago.

Now I probably can get it much lower here, if you can find it via web since Thailand is close to the Philippines. Just 2.5 hour flight time.

As of the RAM I got to be careful here too. Need a heat spreader on them and probably want to get either a Samsung or Kingston. Problem is Kingston does not have a heat spreader on theirs and Samsung from South Korea is by far the best to buy due to their reliability. Dell usually buys from them, and I have never had a problem with the RAM at all.

By the way I have a Pentium 4 here on my puter. Wow. hehehehehe. Wonder if I can transfer this to the new mobo. Is it possible???

But then again I need a faster processor. This pentium 4 will be awful slow compared to that Quad 9550.

this and that and this and that, man it is driving me crazy here.

I am so out of it on the tech level concerning the mobo, the CPU and the info on LCD's etc, and these companies changing the names all around etc, it is a wonder how you techies stay on top of it.

Back in 2000, I already knew how fast computers were being upgraded and it took just 2.5 years before my dell 8100 became totally ancient.

Perhaps maybe I can understand a tower huh

Ok will do more research and hope that you can find something for me here in Thailand.

Daveyo






March 19, 2009 8:41:06 PM

That $600 Board you were looking at is an old server, and thus the reason it is so expensive. They don't make it anymore so its availablilty is nil, and price is jacked way up on it. But its a Socket LGA 771, which is not compatible with the Core 2 Quad Q9550. The P43 Board you found would be a good option I think, you need LGA 775 for the processor you are looking at.

As far as the customer reviews go, you will find that with any product if you look at customer reviews, even the best ones. I go by third-party reviews by reputable websites to get an idea of quality. Intel makes some very quality products, but sometimes they have compatability issues with other things, and they are more restricted in overclocking features, and stuff like that, although maybe you don't care for that anyway.

I think you are using a Socket 478 P4 processor, so I'm pretty sure you can't reuse it in your new build. You don't want to though, trust me.

I can't actually find any online computer hardware stores there in Thailand, I just get useless directories that try to redirect me to somewhere in the US.
March 20, 2009 2:01:04 AM

:hello:  Xthe

Oh boy, glad you told me about that part. Geeeezzz, this shows you my knowledge and its quite evident isn't it.

OK, I am set on the Quad 9550 which I believe will suffice and avoid the more expensive Quad 9650 due to budget restraints. OK. At least now you know where I have to start at.

Secondly I need you to tell me what sockets this Quad 9550 will fit in, and tell me what channel supports are needed, and what PCI Expresses is all about. When it says PCI Sots: 3 > I understand it cause that is what I have now. When it says PCI Express x1 or Pci Express 2.0 x 16 and how its split up, I am lost here. Also about the new graphics cards coming out, and the size of them I have to find a case that has width as well as height so there is plenty of room inside and also any potential CPU coolers like you mentioned such as Thermalright. This is very hard to find, as I have to search every case to check the specs and look at the width factor and its length factor. Last of all I need to know what to look for concerning Motherboard compatibility for the following cases given below.

Here are three cases that have some width so far that I have found and definitely have to avoid fans that are inserted at the rear area on the top. If that top fan is on the front part of the case it is fine no problem or dead in the front to keep the HDD cool.

Check it out.

ABS Aplus ABS-CS-Monolith Black SECC Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case

and

XCLIO Windtunnel Fully Black Finish 1.0 mm SECC Chassis ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail $ 100.00

and

XCLIO WTBK ADVANCED Fully Black Finish Steel / Plastic ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail $140.00

Not sure if these have washable filters or not. This would be a bonus if they do, but if not is there a way to make or find some that can be installed to these towers???? I know Antec has it but it is not wide enough to suit my tastes. Last of all I don't know what kind of material these washable filters are made out of.

Thirdly I do not know which motherboards have all solid polymer capacitors because Electrolitic (older type) tend to dry out and then board will go to sleep forever... Got to be careful here too.

Basically I have to do a process of elimination here.

The other reason I chose Intel is because it is sold here quite a lot as well as those quads.

I forgot to tell you that Pantip Plaza in Bangkok is the heart of the computer world in Thailand. Yes many stores are there and it has 12 levels of floors to find your goodies. Been there and it is awesome, and they also sell huge amounts of bootlegged programs which can save you tons of money. They are in collaboration with the Police who get tea money to leave them alone, cause business is business as usual. I will not mention it here because I believe there are some sites that watch this as well as others and if they get tipped off they can make it harder for all of us.

I have some of them here and it works terrifically fine and it has saved me probably over a grand the last few years.

The only one that causes problems is Microsoft and its Windows and that Genuine check crap which takes away much of the bootleg going on.

We also know that these genuine products are priced way over the top and they are trying to make huge profits out of it. I am talking about the software that is out there.


Now in concern of these cases, I need to find a power unit that puts out 12 volts to the system instead of Watts and is compatible for either 220v or 120v and is 50/60 hertz. If I can find one like this, this would be perfect specs wise. When I got my dell here the 8100 it has the power unit inside the case which you can flip open etc and it has a fan in it, to clean it etc, and you put the power plug in the back when done.

I see a lot of it is external. Any chance I can find a case like the above with a power unit being inserted inside the case or would you rather suggest to keep this on the outside of the case. Let me know.

I will see what I can do today to get some links to the stores here in Thailand and hopefully you can check it out. For the most part it is like a come in type deal as they don't advertise as heavily like they do in USA>

Ok let me get this out to you now.

Daveyo









March 20, 2009 2:47:37 AM

All Core 2 CPU's as well as the late P4's run in the LGA 775 socket. The most common Chipsets that have this Socket are G31, P35, X38, P43, P45, X48...the difference between them is the other available features of the mobo. P45 is the one you should be looking at, althoug P43 would be alright too, it just lacks some of the P45 features.

PCIEx16 is the slot that your video card goes in. PCI-E 2.0 is the newer version of the slot that came out a couple years ago, PCIE 1.0 is the older one, the difference is that it has greater bandwidth PCIEx1 is smaller than the x16 and is suited for things like a sound card.

All those cases you found are good cases and will have plenty of room for your cooler and other components. Other good ones CoolerMaster 690, Antec 900, Thermaltake V9, Antec 300.

All Cases allow you to install the PSU inside of the case...so I'm not quite sure what you are asking there...

As far as PSU output goes...I'm confused again on what you are looking for. Watts equals Volts times Amperage (W=V*A)...and PSU's have 3.3v, 5v, and 12v outputs, since all your different components require different power amounts. So you won't find a PSU that only puts out 12 volts instead of watts. I'm pretty sure any PSU that you chose will be compliant and compatible with Thailand power. Good PSU's are Corsair's, Seasonic, Antec, PC Power & Cooling, BFG LS Series, OCZ Fatal1ty Series, ABS Tagan, Silverstone, Ultra brands.

March 20, 2009 6:39:41 AM

Hi Xthe

Alright now we are getting somewhere. What would be the watts that would be considered safe for the NEW graphics, and the quads, and motherboard, besides the hardware and the Hard drive. I need a ballpark minimum of which to begin because all this is new now, and also this LCD has to be hooked up to the computer as well so you can see the screen.

I have to find out what the total power all this will take and plus some extra to be on the safe side to cover all the bases. From there say you tell me 500 watts, OK then I will jump to 1,000 to cover everything power wise.

When did they start going into wattage here??? I remember back in 2000 all they needed was 110V 60 hertz, and this power unit breaks it down to 12 V system which powered the computer.

I am not concerned with the power over here because they have converters to take their 220 V down to 110v and it goes wattage. which has been running my computer here and the fridge since 2004. Never had a problem up to now. I have a 1000 watt power converter here now. This barely meets the needs for this old sytem. So I have been very lucky up to now.

I will have to pull out my papers here and add this all up again. Since you already did tell me those quads needs 2 volts to run just to be on safe side. I have to know how much the motherboard needs.

I will report back and let you know.

Daveyo



March 20, 2009 7:21:14 AM

Well a system with a Q9550, a mainstream GPU (like Radeon HD 4850), 3 HDD's, and 2 Optical drives would need probably around 350w at the most during Peak power consumption. For a setup like that I would probably chose a 500w PSU. This is highly dependant on the GPU you chose though, as it is usually the most powerhungry component of the PC. Use this Calculator to get an idea of what you will need, I used it for what it sounds like you will build and it said to get a 450w PSU:
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

Here is a review of a bunch of different GPU configurations and their Peak Power consumption of the system:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3517&p=13
as you can see the Peak power consumption of their test system (which will be more demanding than yours because they used the most power hungry CPU on the market) with a 4850 used only 260w when it was fully loaded.
March 20, 2009 7:42:18 AM

Hi Xthe

Your not going to believe this, but a basic computer system uses about 30 amps!!!! This covers everything inside that tower and not the monitor since it is a separate power source plugged to the wall. However here where I am at, I have to draw that as well and add to the amount.

I need minimum of 3,500 watts of power here. 3300 watts is equivalent to 30 amps on a 110 volt system. However read on because this power source unit is a step down from 110 volts to 12 volts OK

I only (1) 1,000 watts power converter here. Stepping down 220 to 110. OK This unit is way under the power because if you take 1,000 watts and use a 12 v system this comes out to only 83 volts!!!!!!

A better way of saying it as follows: 1000 watts divided by 30 amps equals to 33 volts. OK

I have a 30 amp system here. If 1 amp times 110 volts equals to 110 watts (the formula) then 30 amps times 110 volts will equal to 3300 watts. That is why I said before this watt converter I have here is barely able to take this load and I know it is hitting top no doubt.

The power sources they are selling now really can confuse people indeed.

Now the computer deals with only a 12 volt system, but it needs a 110 power source. So this is a step down converter if you want to call it that way.

Now you shoot 12 volts into this system still using 30 amps. OK you will need 360 watts of power. So they are selling 500 watts and selling 1000 watts. This will be OK for a 12 volt system but woefully lacking on a 110 volt system.

Man people have to do some arithmetic here to make sure of everything - whew.

So for the PSU yes a 1000 is a nice safe bet to cover everything but be careful again.

I noticed something else here.

A CD-RW uses 5 volts but uses 1.2 amps to run, a scanner uses 120V but needs 1.25 amps from the computer to run, and the deskjet uses 120 volts but need 0.7 amps etc. and so forth. As long as you can plug the main other utensils shall I say like the deskjet and the scanner to the main outlet your OK. What these units need is the amount of amps from the computer to run.

I may be wrong here, but never the less 30 amps pretty much covers it for my computer system using 12 volts. So it is now decided I will buy the PSU of 1000 watts to be safe.

So now the question is what do you think. Is it better to have the PSU outside of the tower or inside the tower.

My dell 8100 has it inside the tower. If I want to keep this system cool then it best to keep the PSU on the outside since that generates a lot of heat by itself.

What is your opinion

Daveyo
March 20, 2009 7:51:41 AM

I'm not sure how circuitry and stuff works over there in thailand, but I think you must be mistaken. Look at the PSU inside of your Dell 8100, I'm willing to bet its no bigger than 400w. A 1000w PSU is MAJOR overkill for your requirements. A 500w PSU would be fine, if you really want to be careful then a 650w, otherwise you are just wasting your money.

Also, not everything in your system needs a 12v supply of power, some need 5v, others need 3.3v, so while something might require 6A, it won't need 72w of power, maybe just 30w or 20w. Your PSU is plugged into a 12v outlet, and from there it changes its voltage output to the rest of your components.

Keep the PSU inside of the system, its fine since PSU's have fans that blow the hot air from their heatsinks directly out the back of them, not into your case. The heat generated from your PSU inside the tower will be very minimal compared to the heat generated by your other components. Plus its so much more convenient to keep it inside the tower if you need to move it for some reason.
March 20, 2009 8:41:24 AM

Hi Xthe

OK just reading from you and of what I figured mine out to be, then I will need minimum of 650 watts. Again, I know you guys like to over clock these computers with gusto, but I don't do that so this would be a nice safe amount.

Ok that is said and done, now to find the PSU. Which one is most reliable and is of good quality meaning lasting a good 10 years, like I have. Hmmm, I just thought of it now, can I use my current PSU???? I will have to shut down my system to find out what the watts here is. If it is 500 watts, I will leave this to be your decision, because you are slowly beginning to know what I need as we speak here and of what I do with a computer. But if it is more, heck why not. Something to think about here. I will let you decide the brand of the PSU OK. Your more on top of things and would know which one is the flaky one or the ones giving people problems.

Next is the case part, and making sure if one can put a PSU in it. I am very much leaning on that XCLIO Windtunnel Fully Black Finish 1.0 mm SECC Chassis ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail $ 100.00 and probably is settled on that one since it is quite a tower indeed. Now I must find out if I can install washable filters into this contraption and if I can then I am in real business.

Then we have the tower covered, we have the CPU Quad chosen, and we have the PSU covered which is 650 watts. Next is the right mobo and then we move on to the graphics and the LCD. Once that is figured out, then we got a computer ready to get set up and built from scratch.

OK now I will study up on the mobo again, sigh and see what Intel has to offer as I said before.

Thanks again for your incredible expertise and help.

Daveyo

Moving that tower, oh man, the one I picked weighs a ton all by itself and then add my gizmos to it. whewwwwwwwwww, no it will stay put until I move back to USA.


Daveyo
March 20, 2009 8:54:41 AM

My choices for a 650w PSU would be to get an Antec Earthwatts EA650 650w or a Corsair TX650 650w, they offer great price/performance ratios. If you can't find one of those, then look at SeaSonic S12 Energy Plus SS-650HT 650W, SILVERSTONE OP650 650W. If you can't find any of those then let me know and I will find another high quality product.

PSU's degrade over time and 10 years for the the PSU you have right now is very good, I wouldn't recommend reusing your current one. Chances are when you hooked it up to your more powerful system, it would die due to the increased stress, and dying PSU's are VERY bad news. Best case scenario, you just have to go buy a new one, worst case it shorts out 1 or many more of the other components with it, or even burns your house down. DO NOT GO CHEAP ON THE PSU, tell me what you are getting before you get it so I can give it my approval.

That xclio windtunnel is a great case.
March 20, 2009 9:06:06 AM

So I know you really want an intel motherboard, but Intel motherboards are not necessarily better than third party ones, many Intel boards have problems. Look at Asus and Gigabyte motherboards as well. Its 3Am here so I'm going to hit the sack, I'll see what you have come up with when I wake up.
March 20, 2009 12:20:58 PM

Xthe

I know you said DDR 2 800. I see a lot of DDR 2 1200 and DDR 1066 or DDR 3 1800

Can you give me some guidance on this that would be a nice handshake with the Quad 9550.

I am lost in knowing the difference concerning the standard memory on these motherboards.

Also would you recommend a Video Chipset be on these motherboards as included or not. I noticed this too.

As of the PSU your the boss on that part because the graphics is coming and also that LCD as well, and also the boss on the motherboard.

As of the graphics, one of the people here said it is a waste to have 2 of them, but really having 2 graphic boards can play a big role. For example, OK I have the Quad 9550 processor, and when playing my game, sure I already have 1 graphics card here installed but once I move the sliders to the MAX to get the real enjoyment of the game, pow the hanging and studdering begins. Yea I know I only have a 512 mb memory which I know also is a big factor.

Anyway with 2 graphic cards the processing of the scenery complexities will be a lot better as things don't jam up so hard. Example say you have a truck and it drives fine on a lane and a half. Now comes a lane only it is like squeezing this truck sideways it so it fits. Same with the data that flys around the system. It is like taking 4 pipes and squeezing them into one small pipe. By splitting the load on to the graphic boards, it should get the data much faster and better and not jam up. This new processor should be able to handle the graphics data with ease since the memory will also come into play with plenty of room to spare speed wise.

In fact some of these memory rams cannot handle the speed loads of these processors as I am now finding out.

So sure OK now I have a fast processor, but once that single graphics card gets hit with the demand, well things begin to happen you know.

To be on the safe side, I am firm on getting 4 gig ram minimum. 6 and 8 gig is optional so I can do with some expansion here. In this case I will need 4 slots for the cards minimum.

This time I hope to not get caught like I am now when Dell forced me to have just a specific ram and they became obsolete in 4 years. I hope to have Rams available for me like 6-8 years and not be stuck or be under the control of the motherboard itself. The prices that Dell did back then was outrageous. RAMBUS ECC I don't know if you understand what I am saying but I am at least trying to pass this information out to you so that you know as we work along here.

This is what I still have here. Toshiba 128mb/8 ECC G 100, and Infineon 128/8 Ecc Rambus 700-45 It was a 184 pin deal. The dell part number is D370XMD. These are actually purely a PC 600 and it cannot accept any other RAMBUS. Somehow Dell had this motherboard programmed to accept only this and nothing else. Go figure.

I tried without the ECC, and it not work at all. The puter was dead. Hehehehehe. It needs Error correction for it to work. Don't that beat all.

The price for these Ram cards is unbelieveable. $175 for each and this is a 128mb.

For the 256 it went up to 250 bucks for each. That is why I not buy it, whereas I was seeing PC 600 without the ECC going out like butter at 50 bucks a set. So I was screwed by Dell on this part.

I also want to get to have a 256 bit instead of 128 bit or the 64 bit which I have now. Much better too. When the requirements for the games get better, the memory will be increasing as well as the bits for it to work.

Before, these games required 128mb memory minimum, and 64 bit. Now I am seeing a lot of it be 512mb memory and 128 and some 256 bit. So I also have to jump up a bit here as well. It won't be long before we see 768mb around the corner and it needing 256 bit for a game being minimum requirements.

Basically I want to be ahead of this as much as possible so I do not need to keep upgrading if you know what I mean.



Daveyo
March 20, 2009 1:00:00 PM

Xthe

I am having a lot of problems with this Newegg on the searches. Here is what I did on a power search and put down all the things I was looking for and it comes up zilch. What gives here man.

Home. > Categories0_. > Motherboards1_. > Intel Motherboards2_. > [EVGA] , [PNY Technologies, Inc.] , [ASUS] , [GIGABYTE] , [Supermicro] , [Intel] , [MSI] > AGP Slots[1 x AGP 4X / 8X ],PCI Slots[3 ],Audio Channels[6 Channels ],Audio Channels[8 Channels ],USB[6 x USB 2.0 ],USB[8 x USB 2.0 ],CPU Socket Type[LGA 775 ],Maximum Memory Supported[8GB ],Maximum Memory Supported[12GB ],Memory Standard[DDR2 800 ],Number of Memory Slots[4×240pin ],Memory Standard[DDR2 1066 ],Memory Standard[DDR3 1333 ],CPU Type[Quad-core / Core 2 Duo / Pentium D / Celeron ],Memory Standard[DDR3 1600 ],Memory Standard[DDR3 1800 ],Memory Standard[DDR2 1200 ],Memory Standard[DDR3 1333 / DDR2 1066 ],Memory Standard[DDR3 1066 / DDR2 800 ],Memory Standard[DDR3 1600 / DDR2 800 ],Memory Standard[DDR3 1900 ],Memory Standard[DDR3 2000 ],Memory Standard[DDR2 1333 ],North Bridge[Intel P45 ],South Bridge[Intel ICH10R ],Memory Standard[DDR3 1600 / DDR2 1066 ], Product Type [OEM] [Retail]

I basically thru everything at it with options and still come up zilch.

sigh

Daveyo
March 20, 2009 4:31:01 PM

Morning Xthe

Ok here is a list I extracted out of CDW which is a bit better but lousey but better.

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=15020... ####

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=13039... ****

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=15815... ####

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=15700...

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=15229... ####****

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=16050... Crossfire

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=15259... Crossfire

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=14957... Crossfire

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=15963...

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=15564... Crossfire

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=15963... Crossfire ####

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=16050... No PCI???

It is very hard to find what I was really looking for, however some of the eyecandy was there, but missed out on the PCI slots which I really do need. So I don't know what to do or where to look any more as this is so fricking confusing.

If I was to get what I was looking for it would end up in the 400 dollar range on up.

That really sucks. CDW prices are higher than Newegg and I cannot figure it out since it is supposed to be a Discount warehouse. So why higher than Newegg???

Newegg is taking away the competition sort of I guess.


Daveyo
March 20, 2009 6:39:35 PM

Yeah Newegg is generally the cheapest US online store, and it is where I would chose to buy from in the US. So since you are probably going to be using two video cards it sounds like (if not initially then eventually) I recommend going with this motherboard, it is probably the best motherboard for the price anywhere, it compete with those $250 motherboards in terms of quality and performance:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
However it uses DDR2 memory which is the kind of memory that has been out for a while, and in two or three years will probably not be the standard thing anymore. DDR3 is the newer faster version of ram (just like DDR2 replaced DDR, DDR3 is starting to replace DDR2). So if you want to be able to upgrade the ram more in the future, then you should get the DDR3 compatible motherboard version of that board, however you cannot use DDR2 with it.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

DDR2-800 is the standard speed for DDR2 ram, and if you get DDR2 memory I would go with DDR2-800. DDR2-1066 or 1200 are useful if you will be overclocking your processor and ram, but you won't, so its not necessary. If you get DDR3 ram, get 1333mhz ram, it is pretty much the standard speed for DDR3. Just get 4gb right now, benchmarks have shown that is all you really need for gaming, if you think you need more adding memory is easy as pie, and DDR3 will only continue to get cheaper as time goes on. The only thing that isn't good about DDR3 is that its usually twice as expensive as DDR2, and doesn't offer a huge performance increase over DDR2 right now, although it is possible that programs will start to realize the memory bandwidth potential of DDR3 in the near future and so the difference will become more apparent.
My DDR2 Preference: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
My DDR3 Preference: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

If you do a newegg search you have to be general about your requirements, otherwise it gets too specific and you never find what you want.

Ok for video cards, if you want this PC to be able to keep up with games for a while, then here is what you should do. Buy 1 4870 1GB video card now, its the best crossfire capable single GPU card. I think this will be plenty for your current needs and expectations. In two years or so, (or maybe just one year when prices drop to reasonable levels) buy another one and run the cards in crossfire on your motherboard. This should last you a while. The thing about video cards though is that the technology behind them advances so fast, that almost anything you buy now will be old and outdated in two years and need to be replaced if you want to keep up with the current games. If you get two of them and run them simultaneously, then it'll probably last you 3 years before you have to replace them. Most people who like to Game on their PC's upgrade the graphics card every 18 months or so. The best plan of action for upgradablility of the graphics is to get a good single GPU now, and then later add another one that you can use in tandem with the one you are using now, instead of buying two midrange GPU's now and using up all your PCIEx16 slots, then you have to toss both GPU's later when you want a graphics upgrade.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

My PSU suggestion was based on the assumption that you would use 1 GPU. Since you are looking at using two, then you should go for a 750w PSU, or since you like to be careful, then look at an 850w PSU. The Corsair 850tx is your best bet I think for Power Supply Units.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

...So I think that is all for now...Keep the questions coming.
March 20, 2009 9:30:42 PM

Morning Xthe

How did you know that I was leaning on the 45TUD3P??? You surprised me. I also was looking at the extreme really hard as those slots look tasty to me and the copper cooling.

The UD3P is the one they claim 50,000 hours no problem. Good for 6 years running the puter 24/7 non stop without shutting it down. Wow. Yea that one can give me a nice 10 baller for sure.

What is your opinion on the extreme though??

I was checking out the gig site here all afternoon and up to now, and my brain is fried trying to digest the smarts data here.

Yes I think I will crossfire, but definitely need those slots for versatility you know.

Big problem though Xthe, when I do get this mobo and Quad and PSU plus monitor, and that memory, and cooler and what else we jam into it, for a simple pc user like me just playing the sim, sigh, it is going to be the bios setting, and believe me, I am worried. Most of gig I see here one needs to set the bios etc to get everything correct. There is a advance setting too but it is kept a secret from gig so dummies like me not mess with it. However I SAW it on the forum so smack chalk one up for me, ehhh.

Gigabyte got 24 choices, but strike one of them out as it being a bad production board. That one is GA-EP45C-UD3R Best stay away from that one. Many have problems with that one board.

Now I am so tired here got to get some beauty rest and snuggle on my pillow for awhile.

So this much more you know. Will crossfire, and add extra graphics board, stay with 4g memory with 6 as an option for future if needed. So you pick the PSU once you know the mobo that gets picked and now the LCD that gets picked. Tower is already said and done. I am taking that one even though it weighs a ton.

If you can check the gigabyte site, pick just 4 for me to examine that sort of meets all my needs OK I like the site as it is pretty detailed pic wise. That extreme with all those slot really caught my eye as chocolate candy slups my mouth. Yummy. However what is the trade off here. No 3UDP ehh solid state deal. Hmmm.

The price for extreme is a whopper over 200 candles.

Sigh, why they do that to me, when I see a good item it just so happens to be expensive. Darn.

Did you see the CDW site>

Ok sound off. lights off and time for some shut eye, see ya in 8 hours.

Daveyo
March 20, 2009 9:54:01 PM

I am assuming this is the extreme you were referring to: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... and I really only think the extreme is necessary if you will be doing extreme overclocking and running tons of peripherals. I think its overpriced for what it offers, it should be about $50 less in my opinion. A lot of people seem to have problems with that board too...and to be honest even if I didn't know the price of that board and just comparing it to the UD3P, I would pick the UD3P instead. The UD3P is the best built motherboard for LGA 775 that I know of, it has excellent cooling and it would be the one I would pick to last 10 years.

The monitor doesn't require much power, most only need 75w at the most, and that power comes from the wall, not the PSU in the tower so it really has no effect on the PSU you chose. I still say get the Corsair 850tx if you can find it, it is an excellent PSU and usually very reasonably priced.

I did see the CDW site, which is a canadian site...are you Canadian or American? As far as Canadian sites go, CDW is not that good of a site for good deals. If you want to shop around in Canada (I wouldn't though, prices usually aren't as good there due to taxes and outrageous shipping costs, besides the fact that CAD$ are weak against the US$) then look at memoryexpress.com and ncix.com. So I am still kinda confused about where and when you are planning on buying these components...are you going to build this thing in Thailand, or come back to the US first? You won't be able to use any of the parts you buy in Thailand unless you buy all the parts...otherwise they will just sit in your closet and collect dust, while the prices of the components you bought continue to fall. The best time to buy is when you are ready to build.

As far as setting up the bios goes, I think its fairly easy, you just need to read the manual. Especially since you won't be overclocking the CPU, you really just have to set everything on auto, and it will take care of itself. The only thing you might actually need to mess with is the memory timings and voltage, which is fairly easy to figure out. Read the manual, you should be fine. Google of course is always your friend.
March 21, 2009 4:20:30 AM

Morning Xthe

Ok I have decided on the UD3P. Said and done. Wow. No the actual CDW headquarters is located in USA as a matter of fact in Vernon Hills, Illinois which was when I was living in Waukegan about 16 miles away. No I am American, and not Canadie. However in Canada, they have my keyboard which cannot be found in USA, and I am trying to get the buzzards to send it across the border, but still waiting for them to tell me the final price including the shipping. The keyboard is being sold for 6.99 each and I want to get two of them because soon they will be all gone. Been waiting for almost 2 weeks for the turd to answer me via e-mail.

I still cannot believe that you knew somehow that I selected the UD3P. You must have some telepathy to my brain. Actually now I am in Nakhon Sawan Thailand, and hope to get to Kentucky either late 2010 or early 2011. I got set back a year due to having to pay for my mothers debts of which the Credit companies caught up to me when I applied for the house loan. Sigh. I am the only son with no bros or sis like I told you so by law I have to settle out the debt.

Moving back to USA is going to be extremely very time consuming and I will be very busy. I will do the build here, and get it all going. When time to move I will then take the most important items with me to protect it, and the rest will be put in cardboard boxes, and then into a custom made wooden crate.

With my stuff here it will fill up a 40 foot container. When I left USA back 2004 I had only about 3 -4 feet of space left at the rear. It was practically full of all my home furnishings and everything. So this time going back it will be completely full, so I might have to get the High Cube which I suspect since there is some extra items I bought here that will fill that up.

It took me and two other people that I hired privately from Labor World nearly 4 days to load it up. When I got here I had 10 Thais to take it out plus a fork truck to do the job and they did it in 16 hours. Not to mention the cost I had to pay Customs just to bring in my personal property!!!!!! Going out now will not be that much and it will be allowed back into USA without any taxes or penalties. Thank God for being an American.

I have to pay for my airfare, plus the shipping of my Doxies here. Still need to make the arrangements with the Airline Cargo company to time everything just right. I will fly out of here straight to Narita, and from there straight to Chicago, and from there be in a VAN and drive down to Kentucky. Looking at some land now for 6 acres to build on. With that land plus a house there property taxes a cool 340 dollars a full year. Previously in Waukegan I was paying 6 grand a year. Whew.

Now on Disability, due to my back from an injury when a 747 engine crushed me against the wall and the only thing that saved me my life was two steel bars that was agains the wall and I was pinned right between them. Not want to talk about the pain I endured cause I did pass out when it was removed from me. Next thing I remember was in the hospital.

So I plan to do something with that land of mine once I get it and maybe sell two acres of it as lots so it help pay off the house. 5 lots per acre. I pretty much kinda know what price I will sell it at and for the buyers it will be a bonanza. With that lot and they build a home there, their property taxes will be around 100 dollars a year. It is better to build a home rather than buy an existing home. People tend to way over exaggerate home prices seeking huge profit deals and cost of home etc.

Sure they want to make money but with the materials needed to build the home the cost is very low. It is the labor that can bring it up and the cost of the land besides contractors seeking a profit return on materials and extra's involved.
Now many people are in default, and foreclosed etc, and buying one like that you are going to have a major headache. So I am staying away from that like it is poison. I will let the bank and the mortgage companies have it and they will be stuck with it. I don't plan to bail someone out because of their stupidity.

I have always told people to build a home they can financially afford and not be the redhead next door being Lucy Ball. People want to always live in Luxury and they ante up the house to near quarter million whereas they have a budget that can settle for just 120,000 and be happy with it. Know what I mean.

OK now lets see, we got the mobo finally down and this is the list so far

Mobo - Gig UD3P
PSU - Corsair 850 tx
CPU - Quad 9550
Tower - XCLIO Windtunnel
Ram - I forgot ???? I know 4 gigs, with 6 gig as option
LCD Monitor - still open 22 or 24 The price here is the thing to keep costs down and the resolution deal which I need more than 85 refresh rate.
HDD - still debating yet Sata or ATA but need the ATA 133 very soon here 320/350 each of gig, to make it 640 or 700 if possible.
Converter of SATA to IDEE, and from IDEE to SATA (very important here)
Graphics - (2) of them
Will crossfire indeed as that is a nice option
Need washable filters
CPU cooler - Is this still needed for what I do Xthe??????? That tower should take care of it cooling wise but then again you're the expert.

I might want to slight overclock it if needed so I need you to guide me here. Not much just a slight amount if needed.

I will not do encryption on this at all, as that is way too much for me of what I do.

I am trying to stay as simple as I can with this new get up as much as possible and still have plenty of room to expand as time goes on if I need to adjust accordingly.

I agree the costs will be coming down but gradually but I don't think not very much. There is a break point on that too, and availability can be gone as I have found out otherwise.

I did look at AMD, but forget it, it is way over my league.

OK lets work on the RAM now and that LCD Sound good

Daveyo



















March 21, 2009 4:32:46 AM

Hey Xthe

I would like a graphics card with Ti and DDR tech on it and definitely a fan on it too.

Oh also the sound card too. Almost forgot this part.

I am not so keen on getting software such as Norton etc, OEM stuff as you know I got a lot of boot leggies with me that work just fine as part of the packages, but will take the OEM as it is nice to have anyway. When they throw the software to the package that is when prices climb and many should know that part most of all.

Daveyo
March 21, 2009 5:11:49 AM

Xthe

This encryption tech by gig to the motherboard is nice. So sure good for office environment no problem.

The question I have is as follows:

Does this encryption work while your on line so that no hacker or virus - trojans etc can get to it. When your off line, no one can touch you. But once on line yes they have a means to do so and when hacked you will not know it. Was wondering if this motherboard set up can alert you to this intrusion of someone trying to access your puter hacking at it????

If this protects and locks them out, then it is a good security set up with the other features such as keeping the virus of all kinds in check from removing or going into your system.

Actually Xthe, your hard drive is the part that holds all your data, programs and files etc. Not the motherboard. That is why I don't understand this from Gig itself.

However if say OK you have a dial up, hooked to your puter, then it goes to the motherboard first and then to the hard drive, then to the LCD screen I can see the motherboard coming into play here. I am not sure about this at all, but I suspect it being that route. True or false

Bios backup from a virus is nice but what to do when your on the backup bios system. How to fix something like that????? and get your bios back to original setup and eliminate the offender without crashing. Another question there too.

A while back there was a virus that hit in Thailand that burned out the keyboards, and your CD-RW drives and the mouse as well. I got hit and lost the keyboard but shut down fast enough to protect the rest. Restarted in safe mode and cleaned out the offender, but that beautiful keyboard I had got wiped out. The circuitry was fried to boot. Later on and I did not know it, but it did damage my hard drive too. This was back in 2006 during the summer.

So this virus came in on piggyback via the internet line connection. Someone did it. It was indeed a stealth type cause my anti-virus system did not pick it up until it activated and it is fast this virus once it begins.

They should make laws for hackers and virus makers to serve very long prison terms like 15 years or more. The objective is to keep them out of the mainstream of computers while the rest of us catch up and protect ourselves. Also there should be a worldwide list of these people and it be available to anyone who wants to know if they are back on the streets.

I am really serious as this is the biggest culprit now involved with computers today. Bootlegging is on the bottom of this list requiring the least attention.

So much for my thoughts here

Daveyo



Let me know OK
March 21, 2009 5:19:55 AM

As far as ram goes- There shouldn't really be any difference between brands, but I suggest you find DDR3-1333 at timings 7-7-7-20, or at least 8-8-8-24. Something like this perhaps:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Since you are getting a Core 2, then you should either get 4gb or 8gb of ram since it is dual channel. The first setup we looked at ran triple channel, and as such you buy the ram in sets of 3. Don't worry about dual or triple channel, just buy a 4gb kit and it will run dual channel.

As for the monitor, Samsung and Dells are very nice, but a lot of it is personal preference. I suggest you go to a store and check them out in person to see what suits your needs. I'm afraid I won't be too much help choosing a monitor.

I would avise getting Sata drives if you will buy new ones (and I advise you do as it is likely that newer drives will be much faster than the current ones you own). I would look to Western Digital for these, or perhaps Samsung. WD is the industry leader here though. DO NOT BUY SEAGATE DRIVES. Their firmware causes them to fail constantly. The thing about SATA is that the cables are far less obstructive of airflow in the case and thus cooling efficiency is higher with SATA than IDE cables. Sata also looks much more clean when looking inside the PC, don't know how you feel about that.

These are the kinds of converters you need for IDE to SATA:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

For Graphics cards, I would Suggest going with just one right now, a 4870 1GB. Saphire tends to have the best prices and very good customer service. This is the card I am referring to:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Although if you can't get that one, any will do, but try to get one that has the plastic housing around the card and not just the heatsink and fan exposed. The ones with the housing (like that saphire card) blow the hot air from the card heatsink out the back of the PC, others just disipate the heat into the case, which must then be expelled by the other fans in your case.

I advise you to just get one right now that will suit your needs, then you can later add another one. If you were to get two lesser GPU's now, then later when you wanted to upgrade the Graphics you would have to toss them both out, as opposed to just adding one.

For a CPU cooler; there are many that are of great quality. Xigmatek HDT-S1283 is a great one at a very reasonable price, however make sure you buy the Crossbow backplate for it too, as it will increase the contact of your cooler and CPU IHS and cool better, as well as reduce the strain on your motherboard. This is what I am talking about:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Other worthy mentions for cooler are the Scythe Mugen 2, Vigor Monsoon III LT, CoolerMaster v8, Noctua NH-U12P, Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme (this is the best out there). However the S1283 is the best value of these coolers as it competes with the far more expensive and costs half the price.

I do suggest you get an aftermarket cooler, even if you don't end up overclocking, it will be much quieter than the stock HSF. If you did want to try out overclocking, then a cooler is absolutely necessary if you do not wish to damage your CPU.
March 21, 2009 5:24:32 AM

Ok I'm not really sure what TI Tech is on a graphics card...I get the feeling its something that has phased which is why I am not familiar with it...as far as DDR goes, that is the type of ram that is on the GPU. The GPU I suggested uses GDDR5, which is far superior...DDR is old technology.
March 21, 2009 5:34:11 AM

I do not actually have personal experience with the Gigabyte board you are looking at, so I cannot speak to how the data encryption works, although I did help a friend build a computer that used it.

But to remove a virus like a trojan you have to do scans of your computer and then delete the entries from your registry and such...its a pain in the ass. I had to do it once. A very small amount of information is stored on the motherboard, the rest on the HDD, and viruses infect both, which is how they can cause damage and stick around for so long. I am in total agreement on the sentences.

For a sound card, I highly suggest that you try out the onboard audio chipset on the board, as these days it is usually very good, and most people cannot hear the difference between it and a fancy $100 sound card, unless you have very fancy THX surround sound speakers. If it turns out that this is insufficient, then it is very easy to add a sound card later, it only takes a few seconds. If you try out the onboard sound first before you buy a separate card, it is likely you can end up saving yourself $100 or so.
March 21, 2009 6:03:53 AM

Hi Xthe

Took a look at the graphics cards. Nice but too expensive. Need to come down a bit price wise to around inside the hundred range or lower. Not going to spend gold on graphic cards.

Whew, even though you chose good cards but I want to put my money where it counts the most.

So please give me more choices. Would appreciate it that can at least handle my FS 9 and FSX since it the scenery complex is high and I want to avoid the studdering and other and get those sliders out to the max setting on the game itself with room to spare to ensure a smooth flow and for the future Microsoft flight sim game coming up soon.

Daveyo
March 21, 2009 7:17:08 AM

Xthe

Looking at the Nvidia 9800 GTX 512, 256 bit and etc, but was warned to make sure you have the proper PSU that can handle this card alone. Takes pure 24 amps alone. Person says get one that a 60 amp single rail or better.

Anyway the price is reasonable. This one should handle my FS9 and FSX without a problem and maybe the future Microsoft Game as well. Supposingly does almost 34 frames a second.

With that Quad, it should double

Only drawback it is huge taking up 2 pci slots.

What are your thoughts.



Daveyo
March 21, 2009 8:52:54 AM

Hi Xthe

Did a bit more studying here on the Graphics data, and believe it or not that game from Microsoft is very scenery demanding, in compared with all the others around. I am refering to the bench marks as given. This card that I mentioned bests the 8800 GTS by a bit more margin fps wise, but loses out to the 8800 GTS by a mere 1-3 fps tops. Go figure.

Normally Xthe, our eyesight goes at 24 frames a second. What you see and the movie camera's around they go at 24 frames a second. Going at 30 frames a second is impossible for our human bodies but is possible movie wise and when that happens things basically speeds up a bit faster. In the movie itself, you will see a person talking faster, moving faster cars going by faster and etc. Below 24 frames a second we tend to go slo mo if you know what I mean.

So in the computer world yes the FPS does say a lot. Once it hits the full scenery complex itself and does it at 24 fps without a studder or hang or jitter, then you have the normal speed. Anything above that I think one would call it a frame reserve. Meaning it has extra frames to keep up with the demand being rendered to it.

So with this in mind I am getting about an extra 11 on average fps when when playing the FS 9 on that GTx plus board. This is more than adequate to cover additional hits from autogen or the newer photo sceneries now coming into the market, plus all the eye candy being put into an airport setting with lots of animation going on.

Secondly when the plane is moving in the scenery, it can catch up much faster as this plane goes from one scenery tile to the next scenery tile and process it fast enough as you would see in real life. When your behind 24 fps, what happens is the scenery will lag behind and not show up normally until it gets finished with that tile data stream and by that time you pretty much is passing it to the next tile data scenery stream.

That is why FS9 and FSX is very scenery complexed. Games such as Crysis is not even close or world in conflict. This is less scenery demanding compared to the Micro FS 9 and FSX and some other games of flight sim involved like Gen X, which is extremely very scenery demanding.

Seeing a human bounce around in those games is peanuts compared to a scenery that has LOD 9 or less. Just one square of tile encompasses 25 miles by 25 miles showing buildings, skyscrapers, lights, moving cars below, and this is big 25 X 25 and moving at plane speed of 250 knots or less at 3,500 feet going in for a landing or taking off. That scenery below and around including the 3D clouds hits the system so hard, my current processor and graphics card cannot digest it at full setting no how.

So I am really looking forward to seeing what this quad will do and that 9800 GTX card and even two of them will do, and that motherboard as well. Heck I am sure the jump on that alone will be awesome.

However I don't think I will be able to put two of those cards in because of their size.

Can you check and verify this for me. Those cards are very big Xthe. and if that mobo that we selected can handle it or not.

If each one of those cards take 24 amps that comes out to 48 pure just for the 2 cards itself. Then add another 30 amps for the rest of the system. This comes out to around 78 amps. I hope the PSU can handle all that amperage Xthe.

So double check the PSU on the amperage loads that it can hold max and have some extra to spare. I would have to have something say 85 as minimum amp wise and maybe tops 100 amps max wise.

The guy said you can have a 1000 watts but if it not put out the amp demand or have such in the PSU it is going to fry itself out.

Interesting and will await your reply

Daveyo




March 21, 2009 2:05:48 PM

Hi Xthe

OK the cooler and that retention adapter is set in stone to cool the CPU. Said and done

Will that Graphics card I selected do OK

The other is on the PSU

Decided to need a 2 rail 12V power. One has to have at least 30/35 amp and the other has to have at least 30/35amp. Will need 3 of these.

Why, because each graphics card hits 24 amps, so I have to have minimum 30 amp for the card. This requires two of them.

The other is for the system to power my other items, such as my HDD, DVD, CD-RW, the floppy etc. All these will pull near 30 amps as I have figured out before.

I sort of think it is not smart to have just one 12V rail as this puts a load on it when you start playing with the amps.

Having 2 rail set up breaks this load up a bit and it is easier.

The other from what I see I don't even know if this is going to fit inside a tower due to its size all by itself. If it does it is going to be a miracle.

Can you find a PSU to meet my needs now and that is reliable but not so expensive???

The adapter to convert the ATA 133 drive to connect to a SATA will suffice. Will buy two of these or three since I have one other HDD still going. So I just hope all this fits correctly.

The other is I hope this new PSU has the power plugs for the HDD and the DVD and the CD-RW. What I have now is 4 pins to power the devices. So I will need to have total of 6 minimum. I can do with 6 for sure. The rest is for the Graphics, the telephony, the wireless and possibly the future sound card if needed.

The RAM that you told me about, OK that is done getting 4 gig and I will cross check it to make sure it works for that specific motherboard and has the same handshake for the Quad as well.

Please write. Have not heard from you at all.

Daveyo
March 21, 2009 5:43:31 PM

Ok so here is the thing about the graphics card: the motherboard you are looking at supporst crossfirex technology which means it will allow you to use two ATI graphics cards together. Nvidia is the company that makes the 9800 GTX which you were looking at, and they decided not to support SLI on that motherboard, because they wanted to make their own chipsets for SLI to sell. Unfortunately, SLI chipsets are the most unreliable chipset out there, and I never recommend getting them. The only chipset which is reliable that supporst SLI is X58, which means you have to pay for an i7 if you want to use it. So if you want to use two graphics cards together, you have to use ATI cards. The ones I think you should look at are Radeon HD 4850, or Radeon HD 4830 if the 4850 is too expensive. The 4830 is about equal in performance to the 9800 GTX, the 4850 is better. Take a look at these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
March 21, 2009 6:05:47 PM

Sorry I didn't write back sooner, I was sleeping...other side of the world you know.

Now on the PSU...I really think that you should reconsider your requirements...the Corsair 850tx which I suggested to you or even the Corsair 750tx (which is now a good option since you won't be getting 2 4870's) would be excellent choices for PSU's, they are of some of the highest quality PSU's on the market and are very reasonably priced, and use a single rail. They have some of the best voltage regulation of any power supply out there and won't fry your other components. The Corsair 750/850tx would be my first choice for a PSU for you, as well as PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750w:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
If you really want to have split rails (I actually prefer a single rail...) then look at these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Another thing...those GPU's you were looking at do not use 25A...at the most they use like 12 or 13. 25A is a conservative estimate of the amount of amps you should have on your 12v rail in order to support one of those cards, but if you had 20A then you would be fine too. The reason they estimate needs so high is so that they don't get a lawsuit later of someone saying they didn't provide a large enough margin. Other hardware runs off the 12v rail too such as the CPU, so you need to have a little extra for that as well. 25A would be enough for a much more power hungry card.
!