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Should I have stuck with nVidia?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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April 9, 2009 11:05:43 PM

I took the plunge on Sunday and upgraded(?) my 8800GTX to an 4890. The driver install was difficult, but I expected as much given past experience with ATI...seems not too much has changed in 5 years in that regard. Anyways, after finally getting the driver installed I notice that I'm getting artifacts in 2D with the 4890. Which, for $300 I'm not too happy about. After using nVidia exclusively for so long, I didn't even think artifacts in 2D was still...possible? My rig is simply average, but I don't see why I'd get artifacts. It seems that either ATI's drivers still are unrefined or their hardware isn't all folks in the forums have raved about.


Mobo: Asus P6T Deluxe
CPU: i7 920 @ 3.4Ghz
RAM: 12GB Patriot @ 1355 7-7-7-20
HD: 4x250GB Barracudas in R0+2x250 West.Dig. in R0+1x500GB West Dig.
OS: Vista 64 Bus SP1
Graphx: XFX ATI 4890 Catalyst 9.4 (went from 9.2 to 9.3 to 9.4)
Monitors: 1 x Samsung 245T @ 1920x1200 + 1 x Dell 3007 WFPHC @ 2560x1600

TBH I'd read so much on these forums about how AMD/ATI has their act together now and how much better their drivers are now then they used to be.

Well, though I'm happy with the 4890's 3D performance its not the improvement over my seemingly ancient 8800GTX in 3D that I expected and its way worse in 2D.

Should I just take the card back and get something from nVidia? If so, what...a GTX285? I really wanted to be happy with the 4890 and start having faith in ATI but so far I'm not impressed.

Is this a common problem?

More about : stuck nvidia

April 9, 2009 11:16:06 PM

I have a 4890 too, and so far so good for me, other than some strange hissing sound I'm having. I have a post about it already.

I've always liked ATI cards since my first 9800pro.

From what I understand though, I hear the i7 processors are kind of pro Nvidia, and the motherboards are SLI, not Crossfire, so if I were you, yeah, I would have gotten an Nvidia card. Anything from the 275 to the 295 would be up to par with the 4890. If you wanted more performance than the 4890, a 295 would probably all you'd really notice from a 1 card deal...maybe a 285, but that would be minimal.
April 10, 2009 12:07:52 AM

halcyon said:
I took the plunge on Sunday and upgraded(?) my 8800GTX to an 4890. The driver install was difficult,


Dude wtf are people doing that it somehow becomes difficult to install an ATI driver, its the same fu**ing process as anything else!

I have had a 9800XT and currently have a 4870, no problems installing drivers.


If your card is producing artifacts, try dropping the operating frequency for the card, contact the manufacturer or return it to the seller.
Related resources
April 10, 2009 12:25:11 AM

Though this doesnt completely represent the full numbers it is good for a ballpark assesment
http://gpucafe.com/2009/03/modern-graphics-card-failure...
GPUs do fail. Id return it, and get a new one. Going nVidia wont change the failure rate numbers, and by going by the ones on my link, it shows you may have better luck staying where you are, but thats not the reason for my link, but more to let you know, gpus have a high failure rate
April 10, 2009 1:46:28 AM

ATI is good... you just got a bad card. I have used both and to be honest, they work the same ultimately. They each have products that compete with each other well. You might want to send it back and get another.
April 10, 2009 1:52:03 AM

ravenware said:
Dude wtf are people doing that it somehow becomes difficult to install an ATI driver, its the same fu**ing process as anything else!

I have had a 9800XT and currently have a 4870, no problems installing drivers.


If your card is producing artifacts, try dropping the operating frequency for the card, contact the manufacturer or return it to the seller.


Ravenware. I'm not your...as you call it..."Dude". Now...to your WTF, literally clicking the "setup.exe" in the Catalyst install process is not difficult. ...even someone that replies with "Dude, WTF" could figure it out. Its just that the installation process for the Catalyst 9.3 didn't produce the expected operational display as I've come to take for granted with nVidia products. I got it installed, just had install the driver on the CD first, then apply 9.2. Again, I should have been able to apply Catalyst 9.3 from ATI's site directly, first. ...but no biggy.

Did that answer your "Dude, WTF" comment. Don't feel bad, I was in high school once a upon a time too.


To all, thanks for your replies. I really did want to give the new 4890 a try. I'll have to give it some thought and decide whether I can live with it. ...or if I should try another. ...or if I should indeed go back to something from the Green Team. I'll think it over the next few days. I was kind of hoping the issue was just flaky drivers, as I half-way expected that...but if you really think its bad hardware then back to MicroCenter I should go.

Thx again.
April 10, 2009 2:14:10 AM

2D problems usually indicate HW problems, tho I wouldnt rule out the drivers. If this happened off the CD drivers, then its almost assuredly HW
April 10, 2009 4:28:55 AM

Try going into the Catalyst Control Center (CCC) and click on Digital Panel (DVI) 4. Look on bottom right under DVI Setting and enable Reduce DVI frequency on high- resolution displays and click on apply at the bottom.(screen will go black a second so don't panic!) That will probably clean up the artifacting in 2d. If you hover over the 2 choices with your mouse a small explanation box will pop up. If it clears up just unselect it and hit apply again and you should be good to go.
April 10, 2009 5:38:56 AM

halcyon said:
Ravenware. I'm not your...as you call it..."Dude". Now...to your WTF, literally clicking the "setup.exe" in the Catalyst install process is not difficult. ...even someone that replies with "Dude, WTF" could figure it out. Its just that the installation process for the Catalyst 9.3 didn't produce the expected operational display as I've come to take for granted with nVidia products. I got it installed, just had install the driver on the CD first, then apply 9.2. Again, I should have been able to apply Catalyst 9.3 from ATI's site directly, first. ...but no biggy.

Did that answer your "Dude, WTF" comment. Don't feel bad, I was in high school once a upon a time too.


To all, thanks for your replies. I really did want to give the new 4890 a try. I'll have to give it some thought and decide whether I can live with it. ...or if I should try another. ...or if I should indeed go back to something from the Green Team. I'll think it over the next few days. I was kind of hoping the issue was just flaky drivers, as I half-way expected that...but if you really think its bad hardware then back to MicroCenter I should go.

Thx again.



I have had 0 isues with display configuration with ATI cards, conversely I have had some color issues with a 7800gt. My comment was not a direct attack on you rather I am curious as to what would cause someone to have driver issues with ATI cards. 4 years with a 9800XT and numerous driver updates and no problems (except that the original CCC ran slow) but I constantly see driver bashing for ATI, so yeah wtf? is what goes through my head.

I think jaydeejohn put it best, GPU problems are not specific to a manufacturer but are just general hardware faults. As of late nVidia seems to have more hardware faults anyway. I would personally contact the manufacturer with your problems and see about getting a replacement.
April 10, 2009 11:35:56 AM

ravenware said:
I have had 0 isues with display configuration with ATI cards, conversely I have had some color issues with an 7800gt. My comment was a direct attack on you rather I am curious as to what would cause someone to have driver issues with ATI cards. 4 years with a 9800XT and numerous driver updates and no problems (except that the original CCC ran slow) but I constantly see driver bashing for ATI, so yeah wtf? is what goes through my head.

I think jaydeejohn put it best, GPU problems are not specific to a manufacturer but are just general hardware faults. As of late nVidia seems to have more hardware faults anyway. I would personally contact the manufacturer with your problems and see about getting a replacement.



I was just being an @$$ because I'm disappointed by this. I was really thinking to myself in the store..."Should I give ATI another chance...I'd had issues with them in past...." ...but I did anyways and its like "Damn, what the hell?!" I'm not giving up though, gonna take the card back and try another, just like it, again as I said, its good in 3D, allows for 2560x1600 gameplay @ the settings I want and that's what I got it for. So....maybe it is the hardware for this particular card. I'll give them another shot.

...and if there's flaws with the 2nd 4890...I'll be an nVidia man for life. Fair enough for me.
April 10, 2009 12:04:41 PM

Stranger, how goes it man? Perhaps I do need a slap. All of you guys' advice has been good. I'll try the driver sweeper before I install the next card.
April 10, 2009 12:07:30 PM

^^clean out the nvidia drivers then instal the ATI ones from ATI.COM
April 10, 2009 12:21:39 PM

2D problems!!.. what the hell is this 1990???? Return to seller or aim for dumpster.
April 10, 2009 1:02:39 PM

Quote:
Actually, what sort of artifacts are you gettings, flickering black lines, odd colouring?



Rangers...exactly!

Stranger, here's what I'm getting when I move a window or when starting up a game I get this thin, scrolling horizontal line. I did notice that I do not get it when the ATI drivers are not installed...or when I'm in safe mode. Does that point to a driver issue...or still think its bad hardware?

EDIT: As I research, I'm wondering if I should just get a GTX295 so that I can forget about the problem or graphics needs for a year or more. It cost, but it seems it'd run my 30" at nice settings.
April 10, 2009 3:58:21 PM

did you use driver sweeper pro if not do it just now, if your still having problems after that then you can complain
April 10, 2009 4:16:23 PM

The 4870 X2 is a better buy than a GTX 295, and 2 4980s will smoke either of them. My recommendation? Get 2, working, 4890s and corssfire them for less than a GTX 295.

To me this sounds like a driver conflict. First thing you should try is putting it into another PC and installing the drivers to see if it is still happening. After that you should (assuming you've run driver sweeper a few times by now) uninstall you motherboard drivers and GPU drivers and reinstall them in that order. Sometimes display drivers can become integrated with the motherboard driver and cause problems. This is a mostly nvidia card and motherboard problem but it may still apply.
April 10, 2009 4:45:23 PM

It WAS a driver issue!!!!!!!

WAS...past tense...it seems to be completely gone now. Woohoo.

I went in the drivers and started messing with things, I don't even remember what box I checked, unchecked, then checked again...the screen flashed off and back on then...voila! ...no more artifacts. I hope they stay gone, especially since I never had them with my nVidia cards.

I really don't know what setting got rid of the issue. :??: 

Now, I may STILL upgrade to a 4870x2 or GTX295. I'm reading that the 4870x2 is the better buy and I'd love to be able to run HAWX and Flight Sim X at their highest settings and have even better performance. Is it worth another ~$200. Seems like a topic for another thread but I'll search the forum first.

...frick'n ATI drivers, oh well, all's well that ends well.

Thx,

Brad
April 10, 2009 6:28:06 PM

Quote:
I agree, how can you have difficulty installing a driver?
Its no different than installing an Nvidia driver, you download it, run it and then reboot.
That was more difficult??

I've never had a single issue with my HD4850 or the drivers.

Why would you upgrade to a 4870X2 from a 4890? Why not just get another 4890 when they are cheaper?


You pose a good question. Let me provide some background...

1. Until now I've never really cared about PC gaming as there wasn't too much that peaked my interest. Then came HAWX...and now I've got some interest in FSX and all these combat aviation add-ons you can get for it. ...All that to say that I've never had a reason to really care about 3D performance in graphics cards until now so there is some ignorance, indeed, on my part.

2. You guys are right, if you install the driver and it works as prescribed there's no issue. In my experience, ATI drivers require more fiddling during and post installation to get them to work as prescribed. Guys, I can't make it any more crystal clear than that. nVidia drivers install cleaner with prescribed results as designed...IME. Yes, I can get the ATI drivers to eventually do what they should, just like THIS experience. NOW, you guys keep telling me about the experience YOU have...which doesn't seem all that relevant unless you've got the same specs as I do and are running the same programs. Those things affect driver installation...maybe they shouldn't...but they do.

3. Why would I get a 4870x2 instead of 2x4890?? Well:
a) My EXISTING 750W PSU can push a single 4870x2 (according to Antec's PSU Calculator) AND my existing PSU has the required PSU leads AVAILABLE for a SINGLE 4870x2. So, unless I want to upgrade my PSU I won't be running dual 4890's

Seems the GTX295 takes less power to push than the 4870x2 (again, according to Antec's PSU Calculator).

I know I sound ignorant and I have no problem admitting such so give a guy some good advice. Isn't that what we're here for?
April 10, 2009 6:30:47 PM

Epic FAIL: This is the reason stores like Newegg have piles of open box items. Idiots have no idea how to read directions or pay attention.
April 10, 2009 6:54:42 PM

:pfff:  :non: 
April 10, 2009 7:16:21 PM

If you ever have a sound problem daship, first response Id read from my question would be halcyons. He admits hes somewhat rookie to gpus, but just ask him about speakers or sound cards.
@ halcyon, Im sorry I didnt read into your post more thouroughly, yesterday was a bad day for me. Having the competitors old drivers on your system, in whole or even in part can cause weird problems, and I should have caught that.
April 10, 2009 8:18:54 PM

i know you fixed it but it does sound like a conflict with the ati drivers and the nvidia drivers

and i still dont have an answer to the question "did you use driver sweeper pro
April 10, 2009 8:21:15 PM

I'd go as far as saying 99% of these ATI driver issues are from people who had an Nvidia card and didn't remove those drivers first.
April 10, 2009 10:24:38 PM



Yes, I did run Driver Sweeper. ...but its a moot point, except for being a learning experience. I got the GTX295, installed the drivers and they installed w/out issue and seem to be working perfectly in 2D so far, no artifacts. Haven't had an opportunity to game with the card yet but I'll get around to it.
April 10, 2009 10:39:42 PM

^^ how many computers does one man need
April 10, 2009 11:03:41 PM

Does anyone else think the OP is trolling? Runs to ATi's newest product only to denounce it on a public form, then goes to one Nivida's latest (took only a day to decide this too) to say works like a charm......?
April 11, 2009 10:43:17 AM

redwave3099 said:
Does anyone else think the OP is trolling? Runs to ATi's newest product only to denounce it on a public form, then goes to one Nivida's latest (took only a day to decide this too) to say works like a charm......?



Redwave, I hope I wasn't trolling but I don't really know what trolling is. I DID NOT denounce the 4890. I got it working with Stranger's and the other poster's advice!! ...and its a nice card, I'd recommend it. This thread taught me that you have to really dig out the old drivers when switching from ATI to nVidia. I'd not done that before, so now I know. Should have been common sense for someone with my IT experience but I got in a hurry...and paid the price. I'm often hasty so this is no surprise.

As nice as the 4890 is it didn't quite give me the fps I wanted @ 2560x1600...and I, like many Americans, got a tax return so I used some of it to upgrade. Where's the harm, stupidity, or "trolling" in that? I'm not one of these lot that go and buy a new graphics card every 6 months or spend a lot of my free time studying ATI's and nVidia's latest products...but I'll work to be more informed. Okay, Redwave?

At MicroCenter the 4870x2 is $569 and the GTX295 is $499...given the performance I've read about it made the choice for me kind of clear. Might of found it online a lot cheaper but I'm impatient and wanted some immediate gratification. ...time is money.

So far so good...the 295 seems to work well at the desired resolution.

Rangers, the Pent D 840 is used by my wife now and the Xeon 3060 is used by my 9-year old daughter. Leaves me with 2 halfway decent rigs, a private laptop, and the laptop from my job.

Stranger and all, I'll get there...I might be a little boneheaded about some things...but I'll get there (wife agrees). :-)

I see that in the future you have to be really careful about asking for graphics card advice if you don't know everything about the subject already. You guys, after all these years, continue to be a hard lot.
April 11, 2009 1:38:51 PM

But does it play Crysis in 7.1?
April 11, 2009 2:07:00 PM

LOL Jaydee!
April 11, 2009 2:16:27 PM

Enjoy your new card, and welcome to the "big" leagues
Anonymous
November 21, 2009 4:23:32 PM

The_Blood_Raven said:
The 4870 X2 is a better buy than a GTX 295, and 2 4980s will smoke either of them. My recommendation? Get 2, working, 4890s and corssfire them for less than a GTX 295.

To me this sounds like a driver conflict. First thing you should try is putting it into another PC and installing the drivers to see if it is still happening. After that you should (assuming you've run driver sweeper a few times by now) uninstall you motherboard drivers and GPU drivers and reinstall them in that order. Sometimes display drivers can become integrated with the motherboard driver and cause problems. This is a mostly nvidia card and motherboard problem but it may still apply.



This all looks great, but when you or I come to use the ATI Card you will find an ARRAY of drivers from which to choose your self designed crash. Yep look at the many revision levels of this JOKE drive and you may then go back to the far better and stable card from nVidia.


Go well with your love of life. and try to enjoy. rootie
!