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Radeon HD 6870 vs. EVGA GeForce GTX 580

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November 10, 2010 1:45:51 AM

So I am looking into getting two GPU's for my computer, I will get two of the same to get crossfire and have intentions of overclocking both and cooling them down with watercooling.

But which one to choose? I looked at both they both look good! :( 
a b U Graphics card
November 10, 2010 1:53:31 AM

did you look at the prices - they are in totally different price/performance categories
if you have the cash - 1x580 = ~2x6870

someone correct me if im wrong
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November 10, 2010 1:55:25 AM

i see, is there a GPU that is competitive with that EVGA one from AMD or no? I looked on their website didn't see one but perhaps I missed it?
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a b U Graphics card
November 10, 2010 1:56:05 AM

id say 580 because of the driver support, it really about what you prefer from personal experience and what you like/ dislike about either company...
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a b U Graphics card
November 10, 2010 1:57:34 AM

not yet, when the 6970 comes out that should compare

otherwise the 5970 is the fastest single card (2x5870s = crossfx 5850 performance) on the amd side
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November 10, 2010 2:06:10 AM

for right now EVGA (nVidia) has the better card right?
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a b U Graphics card
a b K Overclocking
November 10, 2010 2:45:08 AM

Ah ah ah ah.... Not so fast. The 5970 is 2 downclocked 5870's the ROG Ares is the only fully clocked 2x5870s so the 5970 isn't exactly as great as just getting to 5870's separately. The 580 isn't worth the money, on a few minutes (meaning 2 minutes) of Kombustor the 580 goes up to 90*s That's not a good sign, even hotter then the 480's. This was a Techpowerup review.

Review: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_5...

As you can see, even at stock clocks it reached 90* during load. Not good, you better have WC if your going to use a 580. Lol I just read, you are getting WC. Lol then it might not matter. But seeing as the 580 doesn't have a HUGE advantage on the 480. I suggest you wait till the end of this month. Cayman releases and AMD drivers defiantly aren't as bad as they were. The 68xx is proof of that, since the 6850/6870 gets like the same scaling as the 460, at least the 6850 does. So, I'd wait out on the 69xx first.
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a b U Graphics card
a c 242 K Overclocking
November 10, 2010 2:51:00 AM

generally... if New series with more expensive price much better than older series*** :pt1cable: 
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November 10, 2010 3:25:46 AM

but would the new radeon GPU's be better than the 580?
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a b U Graphics card
a b K Overclocking
November 10, 2010 3:28:10 AM

^ not exactly, the 6970 is expected to be 20%+ over the 480. So if that is ACTUALLY the case then it'd be very close, so you'd have to wait and see the reviews. Mainly the OCing reviews and temps etc. I think though that the Radeon chips would be a better idea though because of the lower power consumption.
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November 10, 2010 11:03:49 PM

that doesn't make much sense if same power one board consumes more energy and another consumes less.

any idea what it will be released?
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a b U Graphics card
a b K Overclocking
November 10, 2010 11:14:31 PM

^ What? i don't understand your statement... There two different cards... Also... if they have same performance... it doesn't mean one can't have lower power consumption, lets take the 470 vs the 5870/5850, both are of the same caliber performance, but the 470 consumes more power and produces more heat.
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a b U Graphics card
a c 242 K Overclocking
November 11, 2010 8:03:34 AM

4xGTX570 SLI or 4xHD5970 crossfire woowww... wush wush up up
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a b U Graphics card
a b K Overclocking
November 11, 2010 12:22:50 PM

silver163 said:
So I am looking into getting two GPU's for my computer, I will get two of the same to get crossfire and have intentions of overclocking both and cooling them down with watercooling.

But which one to choose? I looked at both they both look good! :( 


I suggest you let us know the rest of the PC specs and what you want it for including how many monitors at what resolution and we can tell you what will be the best buy.
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November 11, 2010 4:03:52 PM

Have you looked at more than 1 review to determine temps on the 580?



http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_conten...



Beginning with frame rate performance, the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580 video card competes at a level comparable to the dual-GPU ATI Radeon HD 5970 and occasionally matched up well against a pair of AMD Radeon HD 6870's in CrossFireX configuration. All three of these options share the same $500 price point, and both offer similar DirectX 11 functionality. In comparison to the Fermi GF100-powered GeForce GTX 480, the GF110 proved that GeForce GTX 580 was far more than an added streaming multiprocessor and clock speed increase; it was the perfect blend of tessellation, shaders, and texture units we first witnessed with the GF104 inside GeForce GTX 460.

Right now, the 580 is hands down the fastest SINGLE GPU graphics card available, the benchmarks show it crushing the 5870, we'll see how the 6970 pans out when it comes out, judging by the minimal performance gains the 6870 & 6850 saw over the 5850 & 5830, I'm not convinced that it will match or exceed the 580, but we'll see when it comes out.

Keep in mind that if you go with Crossfire 6870's or 460's in SLI that's as far as your upgrade path will go.
Where as you can do TRI SLI with the 580!

Depending on which games you play, 2 GTX 460's in SLI scale better than 2 6870's,
plus they would be a LOT cheaper too. ( 2 Hawks = $430 )
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_conten...













If you like ATI no matter what, there's 1 5970 for $500, while the other is still $715.
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a b U Graphics card
a b K Overclocking
November 11, 2010 5:41:51 PM

I think 2 x 580s is overkill even for that resolution maybe get 1 and see if you need another or go for 2 x 460 or 6850/70 or wait for the 69xx series
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a b U Graphics card
a b K Overclocking
November 11, 2010 6:46:12 PM

^ Lol what lies, the 580 is NOT that cool. I looked at Guru3D's review and Techpowerup's reviews. They all state the 580 underload it gets up to high 80's lower 90's. Are you joking with me? And that defiantly isn't the TDP on the card. If it is Nvidia is just lying to you.

580 Power: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_5...
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/11/09/nv...

580 Temps: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_5...

Another 580 temp: http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-580-review/8

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November 12, 2010 12:58:39 AM

Those power stats were from here:
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_conten...

What have they got to gain from "lying"?

Here are more temps from other sources.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4008/nvidias-geforce-gtx-...

It's 2 degrees cooler at idle, and 2 degrees hotter than a 5870 under full load in Crysis, 1 degree hotter than a 5870 in Furmark,
yet, it crushes the 5870 by a long shot performance wise ( see charts above ).

I know it hurts that the 5870 is no longer the fastest Single GPU card - get over it.

Instead of trying to find something wrong with it like the heat, why don't you discuss the performance
of the 580 vs. 5870, that's a more interesting discussion. :sol: 



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a b U Graphics card
a c 242 K Overclocking
November 12, 2010 1:05:05 AM

wow that's cool very complete explanation, hi ...silver163 how much your Budget..? are you ready..? :non: 
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a c 266 U Graphics card
a c 125 K Overclocking
November 12, 2010 1:29:47 AM

silver163 said:
So I am looking into getting two GPU's for my computer, I will get two of the same to get crossfire and have intentions of overclocking both and cooling them down with watercooling.

But which one to choose? I looked at both they both look good! :( 


If your motherboard only supports crossfire, then you can only use two ati cards. SLI is for dual nvidia cards.

Some motherboards support both.

At 2560 x 1600, a single GTX580 or 5970 would be appropriate. Performance is about the same.
In general, I think the strong single gpu chip card is the best when it can do the job. Some games do not perform well with dual cards or dual chip cards.

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a b U Graphics card
a b K Overclocking
November 12, 2010 3:17:42 AM

lol kg, I'm not upset about the 5870 not being the fastest single card, I never really cared. I'm just saying from 480-580 the there was not much of a fix. Plus the discussion your making shouldn't be about 5870 vs 580. It should be about the 6970 vs the 580, no point in talking about an older gen vs the newer gen. Let's see when the 6970 comes around what happens.

Oh and, looks like your power consumption is shot. Do you have anything to back up your rebuttal about the 580's TDP? Because it seems like most reviews say it still consumes alot of power like the 480.
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November 12, 2010 3:19:50 AM

Also to Geofelt, I agree I think single cards would be appropriate. But I also think that you should wait and see the Cayman's performance before deciding, I mean there is still only like several to a couple weeks left until the release, might as well wait it out.
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a b U Graphics card
a c 242 K Overclocking
November 12, 2010 8:04:24 AM

or use this VGA very very expensive : for me..
LEADTEK Quadro FX 5800 US$4,066.00
ATI RADEON FireGLV8650, 2GB Memory, 512-bit US$3,012.00

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a b K Overclocking
November 12, 2010 12:31:55 PM

correct me if im wrong im kinda an ATI noob but aren't you guys comparing a dual GPU ATI vs a single GPU nvidia?


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a b U Graphics card
a b K Overclocking
November 12, 2010 12:47:28 PM

The 5970 is the only dual card mentioned by anyone
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a b K Overclocking
November 12, 2010 12:48:37 PM

isn't that what we are talking about here the 5970 vs the 580?? :D 
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a b U Graphics card
a b K Overclocking
November 12, 2010 1:55:48 PM

the original post was 6870 but many cards have been mentioned
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a b K Overclocking
November 12, 2010 2:17:33 PM

ahh see thats where i got thrown off...but it makes sense because your putting Nvidias new bad boy grafix card why not pull out ATIs ringer as well?? :lol: 
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November 12, 2010 5:51:55 PM

hi
i think you should go with the gtx580 becose i have 22 5850 in crossfire and the problems are endless and they only shine in benchmarking
and with the gtx580 you get physx and cuda
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a b U Graphics card
a b K Overclocking
November 13, 2010 1:34:14 AM

^ What drivers do you have, your talking about the Ol' Cypress lineup, especially since I have a single 5850 and I get NO problems. So.... Clearly its hit and miss between others. We're talking about Cayman/Barts not Cypress. I realize and agree there were driver issues with the Cypress and others of the 5xxx. But I haven't seen and driver problems with the Cayman/Barts.

Physx is pointless when only a several few actually offer it. I mean it's a cool thing, but it's not something someone would miss as I played Mafia 2 straight through no Physx and it was quite fun and you could seen some of the custom physics without Physx. Cuda is good, but does it really matter in benchmarking? I mean it inflates the CPU score so that's cool, but if the 6850 can compare to the 460 without Cuda, then I don't think it's needed THAT much. Of course it'd be a cool thing to have though.
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a b U Graphics card
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November 13, 2010 1:39:52 AM

i think wait 7870 better ... in december 2012
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November 27, 2010 7:53:31 PM

One 580SC for the win! This will be insane but for an air cooled system, as long as you don't mind the heat, as i don't so much thanks to AC... throw two on if you can afford it, they're expensive! $1040 for two from EVGA with Lifetime warranty... :) 

SLI 580SC's FTW RIDICULOUS!!! And i'm not talking watercooling anything... Wife is going to buy me two 580SC's for this Christmas! The one 480SC I've had since last year has only hiccupped ONCE and also every time you start COD MW2 the first logo hesitates to display, but the sound is in sync. The card is so totally amazing it's insane, COD Black Ops has been a blast, so has HAWX 2, Batman GOTY, etc. etc...

I'm certain that the hardware with the two 580's (SC) combined will handle any game made for the next year easy with very little cash loss when upgrading/if upgrading in the future :) 

CoolBreeze
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November 28, 2010 2:39:43 PM

CoolBreeze79 said:

The one 480SC I've had since last year has only hiccupped ONCE and also every time you start COD MW2 the first logo hesitates to display, but the sound is in sync. The card is so totally amazing it's insane, COD Black Ops has been a blast, so has HAWX 2, Batman GOTY, etc. etc...




LOL.The same thing happens with my 5850 in MW2 and also I bet you don't run crysis at 1920x1200/1080 with 8xaa or else you would have seen lots of hiccups.Anyways to talk about the topic.If the 6970 does match the gtx 580's performance when it launches then it will practically outperform it.Why is that?Because the tx 580 will have had a few months to increase it's performance through driver tweaking while the 6970 won't.Also the gtx 580 is by no means a good buy right now in my opinion.
Why is that?Because whether the 6970 outperforms it or not,if AMD keeps it's current pricing policies it will make the gtx 580's price fall as who would buy a gtx 580 at 600$ when the 6970 which performs 2% less or more at 500$?I guess we'll see when it gets released:) 
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November 28, 2010 3:15:09 PM

LOL.The same thing happens with my 5850 in MW2 and also I bet you don't run crysis at 1920x1200/1080 with 8xaa or else you would have seen lots of hiccups.Anyways to talk about the topic.If the 6970 does match the gtx 580's performance when it launches then it will practically outperform it.Why is that?Because the tx 580 will have had a few months to increase it's performance through driver tweaking while the 6970 won't.Also the gtx 580 is by no means a good buy right now in my opinion.
Why is that?Because whether the 6970 outperforms it or not,if AMD keeps it's current pricing policies it will make the gtx 580's price fall as who would buy a gtx 580 at 600$ when the 6970 which performs 2% less or more at 500$?I guess we'll see when it gets released:) 

BeCoolBro...

Good to know i'm not the only one with that little issue. Very interesting points on the driver improvements and the jump NVIDIA has on ATI/AMD. In addition the technology built into the cards are superior to the ATI from everything i've seen on CUDA and the PHYSX etc... EVGA is selling the 580SC for 519.99 Free S/H. Forget Newegg! I'm thinking get one now, wait for these insane prices to fall, and get another and SLI them, screw water cooling unless i get a pile of cash all of a sudden LOL, then i'd get the FTW580 and only 1 at that. The next week will show and tell a lot. This is when i'll be making my order, sucks about BFG, they made great cards, my GTX285OCX SLI was BFG and whew it was nice, this past year only the one 480SC has been MORE than fast enough for the games i play (not Crysis). I could care honestly less about that game but i'm betting the 580 will handle it smooth, any idea if it'll be worth it to start off with two 580SC's or just the one? Since all i've been playing is COD since Black Ops came out I'm betting one will be a huge visual improvement and performance wise, you can't sneeze at a 15% improvement in performance plus the capabilities of the card... ahhh such decisions are so hard! Especially when you want to get a new TV and surround sound lol... Oh BeCool, where did you find the stats on the 2% less on the 6970? Thanks bro,

CoolBreeze
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a b K Overclocking
November 28, 2010 3:33:26 PM


Cool Breeze..
If you can get 2 gtx 580s then get them.I think one is enough and if the 6970s are better or nvidia launches a better new gpu,you will have more to spend on that ;) As for the hiccups,crysis isn't the only game that can be demanding.I can also mention metro 2033 and I bet there are more similar games to be released.If all you're gonna be playing is call of duty black ops on less than 3 monitors,the gtx 580 will be overkill
About the 6970 being 2%,I didn't say it will perform 2% less.I said it may perform 2% more or 2% less and I add now that it may perform 10% more.I don't know how it will perform but as azshinobi,if I recall correct,mentioned it is rumored to have 20% more performance than the gtx 480.Considering the fact that the gtx 580 is 15% faster than the former and it is still a new product,it could get 2-10% better through driver tweaking.That puts it either at roughly 2% less or at 2% more.
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November 28, 2010 4:00:51 PM

BeCoolBro... truth be told i can get the 2 gtx 580's, from EVGA w/S/H right now it'd be ~$1040... it'd probably be the best bet to preorder them now if i go this route.

I'm strongly considering the following, let me know what you think, I've been reading tons of comments, I plan on making this a routine, swapping out for the latest GEN cards each year: (started back with the BFG 6800 Ultra OC lol, back in the day, that was $650!)

ONE: GTX 580SC air cooled
TWO: SLI air cooled
OR
ONE: GTX 580FTW and water cool my system and the cards, I've no clue how much this will cost or upkeep costs but the card alone is $700, whereas two air cooled at $1039.98 @ EVGA prices (519.99 + free ground s/h).

Yes, I can wait for the AMD/ATI cards to come out with the 6xxx model, but from what I've read, a single GPU card or SLI where you can disable one of the cards for the games that don't handle two GPU's "competing," that is an added bonus because a dual GPU card you can't just disable one of the GPU's. (not easily far as i know...)

I know it's a safe bet to go with one, which is probably what I'll do, and maybe after the holidays add another when prices drop a little bit. Card i have had this past year has done great, the EVGA GTX 480SC, the prices never REALLY dropped until the 580's came out. I've not made up my mind yet, just keep on reading and am leaning towards the NVIDIA GTX 580SC but what are your thoughts? I have Crisis and fully intend on putting it to the test with no matter what i get, but my 2 gtx 285ocx's couldn't hack it with the stacking loss and i don't think i've even tried it with the gtx480sc lol, COD is too addicting when not working or with wife and kids... Imagining them stacking SLI with 80-90%(is this for real? i've heard even higher!) added efficiency is sick! That would have to finally be able to crush and destroy all these demanding games... am i right? What are ya'll going to do? Thanks fellas/ladies! ;) 

CoolBreeze
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a b K Overclocking
November 28, 2010 4:09:57 PM

Gtx 580 sli aircooled is better from a performance standpoint.Also don't wait for lower prices because by the time the gtx 580 gets cheaper the gtx 680 will be released and then you'll want that and so on.I would suggest not watercooling and getting one gtx 580 ,it will be enough for all modern games at max on a 2560x1600 monitor and I find wcing to be a waste of money which could be spend on other components,but that's just me.
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November 28, 2010 5:55:32 PM

Didn't know that about air-cooled sli, great information, thanks! I am not going to WC anything, I'm not around enough to take advantage of it and there are risks, if you're a crappy engineer lol... It's a huge savings to not WC and I'm not looking to win any awards for looks.

Okay, so I'll start with the one GTX 580 SC, then I'm going to need to swap out my 24" Dell (1080 DVI no HDMI) to a 1080P 240hz monitor (x2) of some recommendation by you guys hopefully, not like the $3k monitor posted the other day, I work for the Army which should tell you I am NOT rich but can shoot with the best of them, LOL, and I also am going to need a 3D glasses kit so I can really get some badA$$ gaming going on! Can you recommend a set? Seems like if you buy an NVIDIA card you should go with their glasses kit, or am i wrong? Sorry, I'm stupid about 3D lol... I've seen prices of them vary several hundred dollars, why??

I'm really getting somewhere now and can't thank you enough BeCoolBro and everyone else for your help with your responses, thanks again peoples :) 

CoolBreeze
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a b K Overclocking
November 28, 2010 8:45:12 PM

Last response because I don't like hijacking threads.For anything further start a new thread in the new build section.
Now for the monitor,I can't suggest a good one right now as I'm unfamiliar with the products in your budget(too little to spend).All I can tell you is that for any monitor you get,it MUST have a PVA or an IPS panel.It is waste to spend money on anything with a TN panel as the colors and viewing angles will be much worse.
As for the 3d part,a friend of mine who got nvidia's kit told me that it made him dizzy after more than an hour of use so I don't tend to recommend them.I think it would be best to just get 2 good quality monitors and make a good non 3d surround gaming environment.If you are going to get 3d though,the best and most popular method are nvidia's 3d glasses.
Finally to add something,if you get the gtx 580,you could get a good aftermarket air cooler like the artic cooling accellero extreme or zalman vf300 to achieve lower temps and sound levels :) 
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a b K Overclocking
November 28, 2010 9:27:32 PM

O.O Your going to have to spend around 2000$ with those in SLI. You get two 580SC, which is 1060$. Then you got those monitors which is like 600-700$. That's 1700$ Then you got to spend around 160-200$ on the after market aircooling. That totals to about 2000$ =P
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November 28, 2010 10:11:18 PM

Well for one card and two monitors, looks like i can stay under a grand, but i don't know which monitors are just selling their name (and quality) like Sony Bravia for example, but something more like Viewsonic or some more generic brand that is just as good. I think i'll pass on the 3D glasses as well for the time being, headaches... i get enough of them with 3 girls :p  My case is the Tempest by AZT or something like that, it's a very well air cooled and ventilated case, i forget how many fans are on the thing, like 10 or something, but i'll check out the aftermarket cooling, i have a Zalman heatsink on the cpu, didn't realize there was video card air coolers... thanks :) 
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a b U Graphics card
a b K Overclocking
November 28, 2010 11:12:16 PM

That means nothing to SLI. It helps, but not even that much. If that was the case, I'd get low temps on my single OC'd 5850. I don't.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-580-sli-revie...

Temps get to 90*C. That's in SLI. If your getting 580 SLI I highly suggest water-cooling.
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November 29, 2010 12:50:24 AM

I'm still undecided =P Dang all this awesome technology super high priced!! LOL
What monitors would you reccomend for a dual LCD setup or side by side? 120 vs 240hz? Any links would be appreciated for any ideas ~$500-600 range, thanks so much again :) 
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a b K Overclocking
November 29, 2010 1:03:10 AM

I suggest you go and make a thread, right now I'm breaking forum rules. We're basically hijacking a thread. =P Not to be blunt.
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