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GA-X48T-DQ6 doesnt boot with 3 or 4 DIMMs.

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September 10, 2009 1:47:53 AM

Hello,

This is my first time posting, so I will try and be as clear as possible.

I am trying to increase the RAM in my PC from 2GB to 4GB. Sounds simple enough right?

Here are some relevant system specs:
Motherboard: GA-X48T-DQ6 (BIOS F4)
CPU: Intel Core2Duo E8400
Memory: Corsair 2-4GB of TWIN3X2048-1333C9DHX (1333MHz, 9-9-9-24 timings)

I have had 2GB (2x1GB) of Corsair TWIN3X2048-1333C9DHX RAM in my system for a couple of years. Never had any problems.

Purchased another pair of the exact same RAM.

When I put the new pair in, the machine powers on, nothing appears on screen, and within 5-10 seconds, it shuts off completely. If I wait another 10-15 seconds, it tries again, and will continue to do this until I cut the power.

Figuring one of the DIMMs might be defective, I tried adding each DIMM separately, in each of the 2 free slots.
A couple of times it began booting, but either froze at Verifying DMI Pool, or got to the windows login screen and gave a blue screen once I entered my password.
Generally it doesn't even get that far though.

If I simply use the new ram by itself, the machine boots up perfectly, and there is no problem.

I ran MemTest86+ on both pairs of DIMMs separately, and both tests came back with no errors or problems of any kind.
I even tried each pair in all possible combinations of slots on the motherboard, but as long as there are only 2 DIMMs, it seems to boot perfectly (Even if I mix and match one old and one new)

As soon as I add the 3rd, it no longer boots.

I have found several people reporting similar issues when upgrading from 4GB to 8GB (2x2GB to 4x2GB)
Im thinking the board simply has problems handling 3 or 4 DIMMs at once.

I am a little hesitant to start playing with voltages and timings manually, since I am not exactly sure what needs to be changed.

I would appreciate any help you guys can offer on this, and if any further information is needed, please let me know.

Thanks in advance.
Robert

More about : x48t dq6 doesnt boot dimms

a b V Motherboard
September 10, 2009 2:32:15 AM

earthbolt said:
I am a little hesitant to start playing with voltages and timings manually, since I am not exactly sure what needs to be changed.
You've done a fine job so far, both diagnosing and explaining :) 

And voltages and timings is probably exactly where you need to go now.

First, go into BIOS and check to see that voltage and timings match your memory spec. If I got the right spec, 1.6V, 9-9-9-24. If not, set BIOS to the correct spec, save, and try again.

If that fails, increasing the voltage to 1.65V, and finally 1.70V.

Let us know.

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September 10, 2009 3:36:20 AM

I appreciate your quick reply.
The timings are set to Auto in the BIOS' MB Intelligent Tweaker screen (M.I.T). However it does show that the manual values (currently "greyed out" since timing is set to auto) are the correct, 9-9-9-24.

What I found odd is that on all the DIMMs, it says the voltage is 1.5V. However, as you found, the spec on corsair's page shows 1.6V.
To top that off, when I go to the PC Health Status screen in my BIOS, it shows the value for "DDR15V" at 1.744V. This concerned me a little, but my PC has always worked beautifully like this.

(Keep in mind that all these settings are with only 2 DIMMs, because i cant even get to the BIOS when 3 or 4 are plugged in.)

The next question to ask is, on my BIOS' MB Intelligent Tweaker, there are several voltages that people have mentioned. Which should I increase?
There is:
- System OverVoltage Control
- DDR OverVoltage Control
- PCIE OverVoltage Control
- FSB OverVoltage Control
- (G)MCH OverVoltage Control

One article I read, the person had tried increasing DDR Overvoltage by up to 0.4V (he had 8GB of RAM) and it had made no difference. He was told to increase the MCH Overvoltage Control by 0.25 to 0.35V, and when he did, it seemed to work. I believe I read that the MCH voltage is the for the Northbridge.

Is it possible that I could actually fry something with a small 0.05 or 0.1V increase on any of these voltages?

Again I appreciate your assistance, and I look forward to your reply.
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a b V Motherboard
September 10, 2009 5:31:05 AM

I have no experience with your board, nor with DDR3 memory. I read your manual, and you have the correct parameter.

You want to try kicking up the memory voltage. DDR OverVoltage Control is the place, and someone else's success kicking it up 0.4V would make sense to me. It will take some time, but kick it up one increment at a time.

Yes, at some point a small change in voltage can fry stuff. If this were an i7 920, the max voltage would be 1.65V. For a 775 board, DDR2, the max would be 2.1V. Anything over those risks something. I dont know about DDR3, but small changes from where you are should be no problem.
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September 10, 2009 8:24:13 AM

I have a GA-X48T-DQ6 with 8 Gb. I use this memory Mushkin Extreme EM3-10666 DDR3 1333 with 1.5V and bios F4.
I think that You have problems with the Bios becouse only you can move the V. from 1.5V to 1.55V with bios F4.

Send one message to Gygabite to explain your problem.
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a c 177 V Motherboard
September 10, 2009 2:10:17 PM

You need to bump MCH voltage by a tenth, or a tenth and a half, to accomodate four sticks - sometimes, 4x1 is harder to get running than 4x2, for god only knows what reason...
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September 10, 2009 3:54:44 PM

Thanks for all your assistance.
I'll give it a shot today, and Ill let you guys know if it works
m
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September 10, 2009 10:14:38 PM

Alright I gave it a shot, but with no working results.
I will detail what I tried, and if you guys have any more suggestions I would be happy to hear them.

For my testing, each time I made a change, I booted with 2 DIMMs to make sure it worked, then shut down, and tried to boot again with all 4 DIMMs.

(This was a bit of a pain, because of the way the motherboard is laid out. Basically the video card is long enough that it prevents the ram clips from opening, so each time I need to insert or remove ram, I need to remove the video card)

Anyway, I started by increasing the "DDROverVoltage" by 0.05V, then 0.1V and finally 0.2V.

What I found odd here is that when it was on "Normal" (ie. 0.0V), the BIOS status showed my DDR15V at 1.744V.
When I increased to 0.05V, it showed 1.6V.
When I increased to 0.1, it showed 1.648
And finally when I put 0.2V, it showed 1.744, which was the same as when it was set to "normal".

I set that one back to normal, and then tried to increase the MCHOverVoltage.
Increased it to 0.025, then 0.05, 0.075, 0.1, and finally 0.15 ( I skipped 0.125 since User BILBAT had recommended a tenth or a tenth and a half)

Next I kept the MCH Voltage at 0.15, and I added the 0.2 DDR Voltage again, but again it did not boot with all 4 DIMMs.

The last thing I tried had to do with the RAM timings, because I noticed something odd on the package. On the barcode sticker, it said the RAM timings were 9-9-9-27, however on the DIMM itself, it said 9-9-9-24.
I checked the package from my original RAM (yes i kept it :)  ) and it showed the same thing.
Long story short, I tried manually setting the timing to 9-9-9-27 (with all voltages back at normal) but this did not help either.

The only thing left that I can think of is to update the BIOS. I have version F4, but I read about all kinds of problems with F5 bricking people's boards last year (not sure if that was fixed or not), and the only other option is a beta BIOS, F6D.

Regardless, none of the changes listed in the BIOS change log mention anything about RAM.
(you can see the BIOS versions here if ya like: http://www.giga-byte.ca/Support/Motherboard/BIOS_Model.... )

That's all the info Ive got for now.
I'm hoping you guys have a magic solution up your sleeves :) 
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a b V Motherboard
September 10, 2009 10:24:13 PM

We could play some more, but I'd suggest waiting a bit for Bilbat - meanwhile, run two sticks :) 
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September 10, 2009 11:05:31 PM

Well I'm back on two sticks for now... what other kinds of things do you think we would play with?
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a c 177 V Motherboard
September 10, 2009 11:19:50 PM

Sorry guys - been reinstalling Win7, as I semi-broke it playing with network optimizations, and the latest upgrade to Vuze finished the job - doing five or six video streams at once was causing blue screens... Be back in a bit - haven't got a PDF reader yet to view the RAM spec sheet; in the meantime, please download MemSet here:
http://www.tweakers.fr/download/MemSet41b4.zip
and post me both the main screen, and the SPD pop-up; it's the most dependable thing I've found for reading SPDs/EPPs - CPU-Z has some definite problems there...
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September 10, 2009 11:48:02 PM

Ran Memset like you asked...
here is a screenshot of the two screens you were looking for...
http://earthbolt.no-ip.com/pub/memory.jpg
this is with only the original DIMMs in the machine, since I cant boot with the all 4...
DIMM1 and 3 seem to be identical.
Would you like me to swap the RAM for the 2 new ones and run it again?
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a c 177 V Motherboard
September 11, 2009 2:14:24 AM

Nope - that'll do us; I've got PDF now, may get it yet tonight - in the middle of Visual Studio now - getting there!!
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Best solution

a c 177 V Motherboard
September 11, 2009 2:09:35 PM

My first recommendation is the BIOS upgrade; my bet is you have an E0 step chip:

E0 sSpec Number: SLB9J; C0 sSpec Number: SLAPL

At:
http://www.giga-byte.ca/Support/Motherboard/CPUSupport_...
GB says: "Intel Coreā„¢ 2 Duo E8400 3GHz 6MB Wolfdale 45nm E0 65W 1333 BIOS F5"

I'd go with the beta BIOS (god knows I've been running a beta forever...), as the across the spectrum upgrades to the ICHxR firmware are worthwhile, especially when combined with the new driver/manager stuff from Intel; my manager can rebuild my RAID1 in half the time it used to take...

GA-X48T-DQ6
Intel Core2Duo E8400 1333FSB x9.0mult 3.0GHz .85-1.3625V
Corsair 2-4GB of TWIN3X2048-1333C9DHX (1333MHz, 9-9-9-24 timings) nominal 1.6v

If you haven't yet done it, put one stick in the slot closest to the CPU, start with a BIOS' "Load Optimized Defaults", save and exit, reboot...

Before we start ramping things up, I want to teach you a new skill involving the BIOS: Do the <DEL> at the boot to enter the BIOS;
notice, at the bottom, the <F11> "Save CMOS to BIOS" - hit this, and you should get a menu that will show a number (the count varies by BIOS) of empty 'slots', each of which will store an entire set of BIOS parameters, to be re-loaded from the corresponding <F12> "Load CMOS from BIOS"; this is a wonderful overclocker's feature. What I do with it, is to save my 'baseline' working parameters, so if I change something that 'irritates' the board, and forces a reset of all the parameters to defaults, or, even worse, get so screwed up I need to do a 'clear CMOS', I can get back to my starting point with no effort, and without having to remember 85 separate settings! Another thing it prevents is two hours' troubleshooting, having forgotten a change to a crucial parameter - like, "wait a minute - didn't I have the Trd at seven?!" It's pretty self-explanatory, and I alway urge people to start right away by taking the time to give the 'slots' names that mean something: in two hours, "Try2" and "Try3" will not be very helpful, but "450@+10MCH" and "450@+15MCH" will! Another use is for 'green' settings; overclocks, as a rule, do not 'play well' with green features, such as 'down-clocking' and 'down-volting'; with the storage slots, you can set up one profile, say "Green", with all the settings at 'stock' values, and all the 'green' features enabled; another, say "Balls2Wall" with a full overclock, and all the 'green' stuff turned off... Another neat feature of this 'slot' system is, for most BIOS, the mechanism itself will keep track of which ones have booted successfully, and how many times (up to, I believe, a max of five)!

On the "Advanced BIOS Features" page:

"CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E)" to "Disabled"
"CPU Thermal Monitor 2 (TM2)" to "Enabled"
"CPU EIST Function" to "Disabled"
"Virtualization Technology" to "Enabled" if using MS' Virtual, Sun's Vbox, or VMWare...
"Full Screen LOGO Show" to "Disabled"

On the "Integrated Peripherals" page:

Your manual shows "Legacy USB storage detect", but later BIOS say "USB Storage Function" - either way, set to "Disabled"

On the "Power Management Setup" page:

"ACPI Suspend Type" to "S1(POS)" (for now...)
"HPET Support" to "Enabled"
"HPET Mode" to whichever OS type you're running - "32-bit" if an x86 version, "64-bit" if an x64 version...

If you're interested, and have any cooling other than stock, this is a good time for an easy, no-muss, no-fuss, no-risk overclock to, say, 3.6GHz. I'll put in separate entries, bold for the OC, plain for stock CPU speed...

On the "MB Intelligent Tweaker(M.I.T.)" page:

"Robust Graphics Booster" to "Auto"
"CPU Clock Ratio" to "9.0"
"CPU Frequency" - this one can't be set, it's calculated, and will change when we set the next few items...
"CPU Host Clock Control" to "Enable"
"CPU Host Frequency (Mhz)" to "334"
"CPU Host Frequency (Mhz)" to "401"
"PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)" to "100" (not auto...)
"C.I.A.2" to "Disabled"
"Performance Enhance" to "Standard"
"System Memory Multiplier (SPD)" to "4.0B"
"System Memory Multiplier (SPD)" to "3.33D"
"Memory Frequency (Mhz)" - again, can't be set, it's calculated...
"DRAM Timing Selectable (SPD)" to "Manual"

The memory specs should have been set correctly by the "Load Optimized" - need only be checked to verify that they're at or above the following:

******** Standard Timing Control ********
"CAS Latency Time" to "9"
"DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay" to "9"
"DRAM RAS# Precharge" to "9"
"Precharge delay (tRAS)" let's go with the "27" here, just for safety's sake...

******** Advanced Timing Control ********
"ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)" to "4"
"Rank Write To READ Delay" to "5"
"Write To Precharge Delay" to "10"
"Refresh to ACT Delay" to "64" (can be lowered later...)
"Read To Precharge Delay" to "7"
"Static tRead Value" to "9" (can be lowered later...)
"Static tRead Phase Adjust" to "Auto"
"Command Rate(CMD)" to "2T"

"System Voltage Control" to "Manual"
"DDR3 OverVoltage Control" to "1.6" (this is weird - spec says 1.6, SPD says 1.5 - ??)
"PCI-E OverVoltage Control" to "+0.10"
"FSB OverVoltage Control" to "+0.10"
"(G)MCH OverVoltage Control" - test at "+0.10" and "+0.15"; shouldn't need it higher...

"Loadline Calibration" this functions (or doesn't) on a 'per-board' basis; try both ways, see which gives voltages closer to spec; on my X48, I'm better with it disabled...

"CPU Voltage Control" to "Auto"
"CPU Voltage Control" to "1.25"

and, hopefully, that should do it!

I should point out that getting two reboots in a row here is perfectly normal behavior; it seems that, when you change certain settings (and we don't exactly know which ones - the only sure one I know is Trd - if you change it, I think you get the 'twin' reboot) it boots once to 'see where it's at', recalculates its remaining 'auto' settings, saves them, and then boots again. Three reboots in a row, however, usually indicates that the board was 'given indigestion' by your settings, and is going back to defaults. This sometimes goes astray, and it doesn't get back into proper operation - for example, at this point, mine will sometimes 'lock' itself into 111MHz x a six multiplier - and take a week to do a whole boot - that's time to do a CMOS reset, and use your 'stored' <F12> profile to get back to where you were...

Good luck!

Bill
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September 11, 2009 5:38:03 PM

First of all, Thanks Bill! That is a ton of useful info!!

Haven't tried much of it yet, but I started with your first step, updating the BIOS.

I updated to the newest BIOS, the beta BIOS F6D.

Loaded the optimized defaults, and it booted properly into windows with my 2 DIMMs as usual.

When I tried with 4 DIMMs, it still did not boot, however, it did something a little different this time.
It tried and shut itself off a couple of times, but on its 3rd attempt at booting, it did not shut off. It stayed on, but it did not display anything on screen.
I shut it off after a minute and booted again, and it didnt power off again, simply stayed on without displaying anything on screen.

I dont know if this helps in any way, but I thought I should mention it, as you guys might have an idea as to what it was stuck on or doing.

Please let me know if this is helpful at all.
Im going to try some more of Bill's suggestions in the meantime.
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September 11, 2009 6:25:55 PM

Holy crap!! It worked!!!
As of right now, Bill is a GOD!! lol
Thank you so much!!!
I followed your instructions exactly.... with a one small alteration... I left CPU freq at 333 instead of 334... and Loadline Calibration I left at Auto since you had said it could go either way...
I am really curious now which setting/combination of settings did it since I did everything at once...
Also, thanks for the tip about saving BIOS settings.
I saved the BIOS settings twice in the manner you described... one was my default (with a minor change in the boot order) and the second save was with all of your settings :) 

I guess its time to play around with some of the settings (like the ones you said can be lowerred later) and see if it makes a difference.

Ill keep you posted if anything else changes, but as of right now, problem appears to be solved!! thank you so much!!

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a b V Motherboard
September 11, 2009 6:29:42 PM

Told ya to wait for Bill lol :) 
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September 11, 2009 6:45:35 PM

lol
Well now that its working, Im trying to play with settings to at least figure out what it was that did it.... right now i think it was the RAM timings...

When i put RAM timing back to auto... it failed to boot...
Re-loaded Bill's settings, changed all the overvoltages back to Auto... and it boots fine with 4DIMMs!!
Voltages are what worried me the most about all this, cause I didnt want to fry anything...

Im going to keep playing with the settings... im curious if it was only the ram timings...

Thanks again! and ill post back if I discover exactly what it was...

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September 11, 2009 7:11:51 PM

Ok, so everything is back to optimized defaults, with the exception of Standard Timing Control and Advanced Timing control.
(Even the system memory multiplier is back at Auto)

Quote:
******** Standard Timing Control ********
"CAS Latency Time" to "9"
"DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay" to "9"
"DRAM RAS# Precharge" to "9"
"Precharge delay (tRAS)" let's go with the "27" here, just for safety's sake...

******** Advanced Timing Control ********
"ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)" to "4"
"Rank Write To READ Delay" to "5"
"Write To Precharge Delay" to "10"
"Refresh to ACT Delay" to "64" (can be lowered later...)
"Read To Precharge Delay" to "7"
"Static tRead Value" to "9" (can be lowered later...)
"Static tRead Phase Adjust" to "Auto"
"Command Rate(CMD)" to "2T"


I imagine that I can try and change the precharge delay to 24 since that's its official spec for the ram... but I am not sure what to try with the advanced timing control.
Bill mentioned that a couple of them can be lowered later, but what are the optimal settings for the advanced timing?
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a c 177 V Motherboard
September 12, 2009 3:24:12 PM

Quote:
what are the optimal settings for the advanced timing?

That's another one of those "how high is up" questions; first of all, every stick of RAM is different - that's how you get 'high speed' memory. The fab sorts RAM chips according to their response speeds, and sells 'em to the stick manufacturer for prices that vary b speed capability; then the manufacturer assembles them to a module, and tests the modules for speed again (called 'speed binning'), selling the faster ones for higher prices - but - every single one is slightly different! So, as too often seen (in advertising :kaola:  ) - 'your results may (will!) vary'... The honest answer to optimal is as fast as you can coax it into running, while keeping the voltages down to what you consider reasonable depending on your long-term life-span expectancy for your hardware. If you're a 'balls-to-the-wall' gamer, and expect to replace your system every eighteen months as faster hardware hits the channel, running an Intel 2.83GHz CPU that's rated for VIDmax of 1.3625V at 1.45 with good cooling to get past 4GHz is acceptable; the chip is likely to last the eighteen months anyway, and, if it 'dies' a little early, why then you have an excuse to go buy that i9 (or i11 - if they stick to prime numbers) a little early. If you're like me, and expect machines to stay in service until they're simply overwhelmed by feature bloat of the software, you play it a bit more conservatively, getting what you can while keeping the voltages low enough to ensure no effect on longevity... My workstation is running a 9550 at a gig over rated frequency, with voltage well within Intel's spec, and eight gig of 1066 G.Skill at 1080, a half tenth under rated voltage, and I still have a fan on the RAM, the NB, and the SB - just for insurance!

The overclocks I hand out here are of that variety; I try to keep voltages well within manufacturer's specs to have no deleterious effects on longevity; I find nearly every Intel chip can be 'bumped up' either twenty or twenty-five percent at voltages well under VIDmax; and memory tuned to match. My usual route is very simple - just 'bump' the system clock from the specified 333 to 400 - and change the memory multiplier.

Of the settings we went over, the one that will show a difference to throughput testing (though not necessarilly a noticeable 'subjective' boost) is "Static tRead Value"; the easiest procedure to start bumping this down (and if my calculations are right, it'll never run below 7) is to use the 'storage slots' in the BIOS. Save your working set in the first slot, named 'baseline' or some such; then use three more slots as follows: save the working set again to three more 'slots' named 'boots-tests' (second slot), 'boots' (third slot), and 'tweaking' (fourth slot). Ok, to re-hash, we have the same, stable parameter set in four slots - just named differently. Now, bump your Static tREAD down one, and save it to 'tweaking', then save and exit to attempt to boot; if it boots OK, save it to 'boots'; do it again - perhaps this time lowering Refresh to ACT Delay by two or four; save it to 'tweaking', again save and exit, to see if it boots - if it does, again save it to 'boots'; once in a while, when it seems stable, load the set in 'boots', and run a pass of MemTest; if it passes, save it to 'boots-tests'...

This all sounds way more complicated than it is - this might help:

baseline
boots-tests
boots
tweaking

Yon have a vertical row of mailboxes. Baseline is your safety-line, it allows you to 'step off the building', trusting that you can easily recover, and get back into operation. 'Tweaking' is always the one you're 'fiddling with', trying faster and faster parameters, until it fails. Each one that works just gets 'pushed up' into the slot above - indicating more stability. When you find you can't get any further, you run 'boots-tests' for a week or two, to verify that, in the real world', the thing is actually stable. Stress testers and MemTest are all well and good, but the actual test is normal use. Once you're happy with boots-tests, you can make it your new 'baseline' - or not - just in case you want a 'fall-back' position.

BTW - the reason I bump the clock one - 334 instead of 333, or 401 instead of 400, has to do with northbridge latencies... The memory multipliers come in groups for each FSB speed (that's why the letter after the number), which load differing latencies for the MCH, much like the memory latency settings. Some BIOS and NB combos don't 'kick-in' these latencies until one past the set's frequency, i.e., to be positive you're getting 333 latencies, I 'bump' the clock to 334. And, as usual, probably some hardware engineer at GB is the only one who knows which ones work this way, and he's not talking (well, maybe in Mandarin!)









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September 13, 2009 4:31:52 AM

Wow, again with tons of great info.
You really are a fantastic help Bill!!
Thank you, and I hope you know that I really appreciate all the help you gave me!!

With the crappy answers I got from both the motherboard and the ram manufacturers, I definitely could not have gotten it working without your help! :D 

Thank you!!
Best regards,
Robert
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September 13, 2009 4:40:40 AM

Oh and before I forget, I also want to thank Twoboxer for his help, and ultimately, his suggestion to wait for bilbat's recommendations lol :D 
Seriously... you guys were all a big help.
Thanks!!
Robert
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a c 177 V Motherboard
September 13, 2009 2:48:42 PM

Always welcome! :hello: 

Bill
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!