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E4500, first time overclocker

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December 5, 2010 1:55:24 AM

Hi all, I'm attempting to overclock my e4500. This is my first overclocking attempt so any advice is welcome.

I'm using an e4500 on an msi p965 neo 2. I have gotten it to boot into windows at the settings below, but havnt gotten it prime stable.

FSB:273
Multi: locked at 11
Vcore: 1.4V
NB voltage: 1.3V
Spread Spectrum: disabled
FSB Ram divider: 1:1
All settings not mentioned are still at default

What settings should I tweak to help improve stability?

If there is any important info I have missed out do let me know and I will try to find out! Thanks in advance

Ninjalemur

More about : e4500 time overclocker

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December 5, 2010 5:32:45 AM

273x11=3000MHz.
Well, 1.4V is a bit high, try lowering it by little and test it with prime 95.
FSB:RAM=1:1 is good.
And don't forget to check the temps...
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December 5, 2010 5:56:21 AM

^^ Agreed, still ram voltage adjustments might be needed.
vcore is quite high, check that you dont exceed intel's v core range..
And monitor your temps, using Hw monitor..
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a b K Overclocking
December 5, 2010 7:38:47 AM

Vcore at 1.4 is high. Try something else.

IMO switch on spread spectrum. Why off?

Booting doesn't count. Mostly Windows will show BSOD when you launch a game. I experienced the same. An OC looked fine until i launched a game. So try some FPS (Counter strike, Left4dead etc) and if 5 to 10 minutes of it playing didn't hurt your PC (BSOD), then its good.
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December 5, 2010 9:55:35 AM

It's best to test overclocking with a stress app that does all cores. Orthos should work.

1) Start Task Manager (CTRL-ALT-DEL)
2) Start the stress test
3) observe all cores at 100%
4) let set for at least ten minutes

You can also leave the Task Manager running in the background while playing a game. start a game then play for five minutes and close it out. If none of your CPU cores hit 100% then overclocking your CPU will not add any benefit to that game meaning your graphics card is likely limiting you.

The only situation in which a game is NOT limited by your graphics card AND your CPU is less than 100% is when you are using VSYNC and running at 60FPS (sometimes 30FPS), in this case your capping the frame rate. If you see a varying frame rate then either your CPU or your graphics card are the weak link.

I believe that the next-gen consoles will start to kill off the PC gaming industry quickly. Assuming $400 two years from now (Xmas 2012) for the next XBox/PS4 versus about $2000 for a similar gaming PC it's not hard to figure the trend.

The ONLY thing the consoles absolutely must to do screw PC gaming for good is to allow Keyboard/Mouse support.

Consoles will/should have:
1) keyboard/mouse support
2) various interfaces (Kinect, Move etc)
3) great anti-aliasing
4) 3D
5) better physics, graphics etc
6) Tesselation
7) Low-Power mode during VIDEO playback
8) PS4-> BluRay (Xbox?)
9) Netflix etc

So in (two years?) consoles will provide not only awesome graphics but more importantly we do NOT get the headaches of the PC-gaming world. I'm just so sick of the constant upgrades and tweaking of games.

Ironically, Microsoft's next-gen XBox will help kill PC gaming which will cause many users to not bother with Windows. With e-mail support coming to TV, and Linux getting better Microsoft may have a difficult time convincing the average person they need a computer with Windows or even a computer!
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December 5, 2010 12:17:20 PM

Yes, but it will be more safe if he can maxed out his E4500 performance with not too high VCore. My Conroe E6300 can go up to 3.2GHz stable with only 1.33VCore.
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December 5, 2010 2:11:38 PM

Overclocking is more stable, and can go higher if a large heatsink is used. I wouldn't spend too much but $30 might get you something half decent. Mine was $80, came with two 120mm fans and was definitely overkill for my i7-860 (I can run it at 100% and don't even need the fans).
December 5, 2010 4:02:50 PM

hey guys,

thanks for all the helpful info. I'm using a coolermaster hyper 212+ and my temps dont go over 57C at load. If i am running my 667MHz ram at 546MHz I should be able to leave it at it's stock voltage of 1.8V? that is what i have been doing so far. Will that contribute to instability?

Some of you mentioned that my core voltage is on the high side and suggested lowering it. I have bumped it up thus far due to inability to get prime stability at lower voltages. That said, this higher voltage isn't giving me stability either. Is it possible that this voltage is simply heating things up too much and causing instability?

All in all, is there anything specific that anyone notices that might be causing my instability, and is there any particular parameter I can tweak?

Thanks for all the advice guys!

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December 5, 2010 4:05:41 PM

Yes, true, higher voltage= higher temps..
Ram voltage, i dont think should be changed, whats the frequency ?
December 5, 2010 4:10:26 PM

@55range: my ram stock frequency is 667MHz, but it is running at 546MHz now due to the FSB RAM divider. my ram is kingston value ram.
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December 5, 2010 4:12:04 PM

So you are running it a lower frequency , then no ram voltage should be changed.
December 5, 2010 4:15:12 PM

I see. thanks for clearing that up. I wasnt sure if it was my ram causing instability. from the info so far, do you have any clue as to what tweaks might get me more stable? if i am missing any info just let me know. i'm really new to all this.
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December 5, 2010 4:17:19 PM

Well. Nb voltafe, you upped them ?
Thats not necessary, your v core, is fine, ram voltage fine..
Most crashes occur due to ram, and voltage, are the ram all similar ?
December 5, 2010 4:24:41 PM

ram is matched sticks. nb voltage is 1.3v up from 1.25 stock. i read somewhere that some slight nb voltage increase can be helpful. in your experience is nb voltage a major factor? should i drop it back to stock or increase it or leave it?

just to clarify, i dont get any crashes when i do my usual surfing gaming etc. im just worried about the errors during prime. is it true that such unchecked errors that occur when writing data may cause data loss over time? i think i read that on wiki under 'incorrectly performed overclocking'.
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December 5, 2010 4:32:06 PM

Well, i dont think Nb voltage should really be upped, get it to stock, but it shoulnt have cause instability anyway, can you list the options you amended in bios?
How did you oc, simply upping fsb ?
December 5, 2010 4:39:23 PM

so far these are the bios options i have amended

FSB:273 (Multi: locked at 11 )
Vcore: 1.4V
NB voltage: 1.3V
Spread Spectrum: disabled
FSB Ram divider: 1:1

yup i have been upping the fsb to oc as my multi is locked at 11x

any important option that i should have amended before attempting to oc?

thanks for the lighting fast replies man!
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December 5, 2010 4:42:27 PM

Np, well all seem fine, after how much time it crashed in prime 95 and where ?
Your temps are fine, no problem here.
December 6, 2010 2:26:10 AM

good to know most settings look good.

one core errored after 1.5hrs during the 640K test. also, it is always that same core that errors during my previous tests. I had inccreased the NB voltage and core voltage to try to get it stable but it still errors.

is there any bios setting that i didnt mention above that i should enable/disable/ tweak before attempting any oc? or is this simply the limit of my processor?
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December 6, 2010 3:38:20 AM

Well, what you can do, is to list all the options in bios. That way I can understand better, Btw, i remember when i had me E 4600 i Got it stable only at 3196 mhz [stock 2.4], wouldn't go over 3.2. Whats your your oced speed now ?
December 6, 2010 8:57:16 AM

im currently at 3GHz (273x11)

here are a list of my bios options

Standard CMOS features
date
time
ide primary master
ide secondary master
ide third master
ide fourth master
floppy A
system info

Advanced bios features
full screen logo display
quick booting
boot up num lock led
execute disable bit
core multi processing
intel speedstep technology
iopac function
mps table revision
boot sequence

advanced chipset features
configure dram timing by spd
memory hole
high performance event timer

integrated peripherals
usb functions
usb device legacy support
onboard lan controller
onboard ide controller
onboard audio controller
on chip ata devices
i/o devices

power management features
acpi functions
acpi standby state
suspend time out (minute)
restore on ac power loss
power button function
wakeup event setup

pnp/pci configuration
pri graphics adapter
pci latency timer
pci slot 1 irq
pci slot 2 irq
irq resource setup
dma resource setup

h/w monitor
just a bunch of fan speed and temp readouts

cell menu
dot control :D isabled
cpu fsb :273
add cpu vcore :0.05V

adjust dram frequency (set to 400 to get 1:1 ratio)
dram voltage (1.85, stock)
pci express frequency : 100
nb voltage : 1.3V
sb voltage : 1.55V
fsb vtt : 1.2V
spread spectrum: disabled

load fail safe defaults
load optimised defaults
bios settings password
save and exit
exit without saving


thats pretty much it. bold settings are stuff i have changed. everything else is at default.

Best solution

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December 6, 2010 9:44:20 AM
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Well, I cant seem to find your culprit..
try with 2196 mhz or bit lower, just stay under 3 ghz, and test again ..
Also, decrease NB voltage, get it to stock.
December 6, 2010 9:51:32 AM

cool. will try it out and let you know how the stability is. if it still gives errors at stock that means my chip just isnt from that good a batch?

thanks!
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December 6, 2010 8:12:24 PM

RAM:
It's likely your CPU and RAM timings are connected.

For example, if you overclock your CPU by 10% you're probably overclocking your RAM by 10% which is bad for ValuRAM.

The solution this is to LOWER the RAM frequency BEFORE overclocking your CPU. My advice is no more than 15% overclock of the CPU. Make sure the final RAM frequency shows about the same as the default.

Memtest:
Run Memtest for two hours or even overnight to test stability of your RAM. http://www.memtest.org/ (V4.10, USB or CD)

Other:
I say this constantly but monitor your CPU during your games using Task Manager (CTRL-ALT-DEL). If you don't hit 100% on at least one core (monitor all cores) then overclocking is a waste of time which just creates heat and noise.

BTW, how hard your CPU is working in a game indicates how much you could benefit from a graphics card upgrade. For example, assuming you had ONLY ONE CORE, then if it run up to 50% you could purchase a card that provides 2x the FPS in benchmarks as your current one (find benchmarks with your card preferably near the bottom).

If your CPU is running higher than 80% it's hard to recommend spending more money.

Anyway, your computer is only as strong as the weakest link which is quite often the graphics card. For comparison, in a modern computer you can purchase an Intel CPU like the i5-750 for $200. This CPU can be paired with a 2x HD5870 configuration which requires no overclocking for most games (though it is VERY overclockable if need be. again, overclock ONLY until it provides no benefit).

The CPU cost $200 but the graphics cards cost about $700. This is what we call a BALANCED gaming system. That's when, on AVERAGE games benefit equally from the CPU and graphics cards. (note that CONSOLE designers design a balanced system).
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December 6, 2010 8:13:39 PM

My old mans rig i build him has a E4500 @ 3ghz (lowered multi, 9x333/1.45v) - 4 sticks of ram so 1.9v to ram, otherwise all stock v's (to chipset etc) - solid.

On the other hand you have an MSI motherboard, dont expect much...
December 7, 2010 12:01:58 AM

@55range: i just dropped voltage to 1.392V and speed to 255x11=2.8GHz. stable for 9hrs prime. guess i will stick with this for now. thanks for your time in puzzling over my problem! i guess it could be like apache said: it could just be the msi mobo

@photonboy: i dropped the FSB:RAM ratio to 1:1. currently my 667MHz valuram is running at 510MHz. when loading maps for games my cpu does run up to 100% then drops to around 50% once map is loaded. i'm running a hd5670 at the moment. would you say it is my cpu or graphics card that is currently my weakest link? thanks for your input man!

@apache lives: yea i guess it looks like it's either my processor or motherboard just not being able to go higher. btw how do you lower the multi? i dont seem to have any option to change my multi.

thanks for all the help and input guys! really appreciate it
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December 7, 2010 2:43:37 AM

ninjalemur said:
@55range: i just dropped voltage to 1.392V and speed to 255x11=2.8GHz. stable for 9hrs prime. guess i will stick with this for now. thanks for your time in puzzling over my problem! i guess it could be like apache said: it could just be the msi mobo

@photonboy: i dropped the FSB:RAM ratio to 1:1. currently my 667MHz valuram is running at 510MHz. when loading maps for games my cpu does run up to 100% then drops to around 50% once map is loaded. i'm running a hd5670 at the moment. would you say it is my cpu or graphics card that is currently my weakest link? thanks for your input man!

@apache lives: yea i guess it looks like it's either my processor or motherboard just not being able to go higher. btw how do you lower the multi? i dont seem to have any option to change my multi.

thanks for all the help and input guys! really appreciate it


Nice.. yes its possible, some msi mobos are not good to push up the oc, I had an msi with my E 4600 ..
But i also have an msi mobo with a Q 8400 , and oced to 3.6 ghz and running well..
As for the multi, many boards dont have the option, as to what I have seen from what you posted, there is no such option in your mobo, stick with your current oc, stable, thats what you want..
Enjoy ;) 
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December 8, 2010 5:47:01 AM

Weakest link?

As I said, you can easily tell how much your graphics card is limiting you by running Task Manager in the background for at least five minutes. On a single core CPU it's very straightforward, if you PEAK at 50% then you can run a card that is 2x as powerful (or gets TWICE the FPS in games as your card.)

It's a little trickier with multi-core since not all cores can necessarily be used (especially in 4 or 6-core). For example, if your CPU said it was using 50% but the game at best could use 75% of your CPU then you don't have the capability to DOUBLE your graphics power.

Hyperthreading is even more confusing as the value of TOTAL CPU USAGE is shown as an average. For example, in a 4-core/8-thread CPU if you used 25% with hyperthreading OFF (such as one core at 100%) then that value is accurate although it doesn't necessarily mean the game can use all four cores.

If Hyperthreading is on, it would report 12.5% as it treats a thread the same as a core. However, in the BEST CASE scenario (such as recoding video) an i7-860/920 gets only a 30% boost. Many games don't use the threads at all.

**It is best to look to view ALL THREADS at one time when determining CPU usage, not just the average (switch in Task Manager).

FYI, benchmarks have shown that many systems don't benefit from Hyperthreading but that's going to really vary. If a game can use a thread, and really needs the CPU power it's a good idea. Basically, since Hyperthreading being on rarely results in much less (worst case 2%?) it's best just to leave it on, though keep in mind that the total CPU use figure is always wrong due to it averaging across all threads.

Anyway, most of this isn't useful.

Summary:
Most systems today have graphics cards as the weakest link for gaming. If building, I still recommend something like an i7-860 CPU to future proof. An HD5870 is great for two to three years after which the newest card will still work great in the system and give it another few years!

(I wish NVidia would release their Optimus technology for the desktop. This enables the graphics card(s) to turn off COMPLETELY when not being used. I'd also like to see Intel provide a low-powered Atom/GPU chip so the graphics cards and main CPU can be disabled when not needed.)
a b K Overclocking
December 8, 2010 7:35:47 AM

photonboy take your rant somewhere else You are destroying a pretty normal thread. You are Trolling with a capital T! Good job hijacking the thread :/ 

OP: Try enabling Spread Spectrum (It wont hurt for all i know). There sure are other things, but as one said. msi board. Its holding you back. i have value rams and i am running them at 472Mhz (944Mhz DC). They work fine. I dont run prime95 nor i want too. I have my brain and eyes open and everything works fine.

In Short No BSOD=Stable.
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December 9, 2010 12:41:40 AM

Fetal,
Sorry you feel that I'm "hijacking the thread." I was trying to not only answer the question but also provide some education on how to build a balanced gaming system.

In fact, my very last comment is a direct response to Ninjalemur asking ME a specific question to which he also said "thanks for your input man!".

I may have talked too much about gaming consoles but my point was to be cautious if building a gaming PC in the future as the consoles may be a better way to go. Since the computer we were discussing wasn't brand new I thought maybe this information would be useful.

If you read ALL of my comments you may notice there's some good information there and that I've really tried to be helpful and educate.

There's no need to be so RUDE to someone who's taken his time to help others. If you feel I'm off topic or writing too much then politely say so.

I hope other people got something out of my comments.
December 12, 2010 1:12:51 AM

@photon boy: yea i have tested running some games with task manager open to check cpu usage. i do get peaking at 100% for many games. so in my case at least, my archaic cpu is my weakest link. but since im having problems getting good stability at higher speeds i'll just stick with this for now. haha my e4500 doesnt have hyperthreading and stuff to worry about. but yea a lot of what you say does agree with what i read, and it is helpful for when i build a new system in future.

@fetal: im not sure exactly how spread spectrum works, but when i have it enabled i cant seem to boot at any frequency above stock. maybe it's the msi board playing a part as well. i read on wikipedia that silent data corruption can occur at stability levels that are high enough to boot and game, but not uber stable. since i use this computer for my work and stuff i would rather not take the risk. but yea you have a point, if i dont bsod i will be stable enough to game to my heart's content and enjoy the speed.

haha peace guys, i dont think photonboy was trolling. some of what he said might not have been a direct answer to 'how can i get my com stable' but it did help me understand whether overclocking would even be necessary and benefit me. some of it helps me now and some of it helps me in the future. i'm pretty new to this kind of thing so none of what he said is really stuff that i already knew and felt bored reading through again.

thanks for all the help guys! wouldnt have been able to get my overclock done without your help!
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December 12, 2010 4:12:13 AM

ninjalemur said:
@photon boy: yea i have tested running some games with task manager open to check cpu usage. i do get peaking at 100% for many games. so in my case at least, my archaic cpu is my weakest link. but since im having problems getting good stability at higher speeds i'll just stick with this for now. haha my e4500 doesnt have hyperthreading and stuff to worry about. but yea a lot of what you say does agree with what i read, and it is helpful for when i build a new system in future.

@fetal: im not sure exactly how spread spectrum works, but when i have it enabled i cant seem to boot at any frequency above stock. maybe it's the msi board playing a part as well. i read on wikipedia that silent data corruption can occur at stability levels that are high enough to boot and game, but not uber stable. since i use this computer for my work and stuff i would rather not take the risk. but yea you have a point, if i dont bsod i will be stable enough to game to my heart's content and enjoy the speed.

haha peace guys, i dont think photonboy was trolling. some of what he said might not have been a direct answer to 'how can i get my com stable' but it did help me understand whether overclocking would even be necessary and benefit me. some of it helps me now and some of it helps me in the future. i'm pretty new to this kind of thing so none of what he said is really stuff that i already knew and felt bored reading through again.

thanks for all the help guys! wouldnt have been able to get my overclock done without your help!

Enjoy ;) 
December 13, 2010 4:15:52 PM

You could try to change the ratio and get a slight overclock for your RAM too and increase the voltage to them. That can't hurt. I run mine overclocked for some time now with a slight voltage increase and i do not have problems. I mentioned it because your RAM is working now at lower speeds than normal.
December 19, 2010 3:53:39 AM

Best answer selected by ninjalemur.
!