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Splitting question

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December 11, 2010 2:22:10 PM

I have a question about splitting my single pump cooling loop. My proposed setup is as follows: Reservoir>Pump>Radiator>...
After that I want to split my loop as to deliver cooled coolant to my components. One branch will hit my I7 and chipset blocks, the other will cool my 580s. After that they will merge and return to the reservoir. My question is about flow restriction between the two. We know fluids take the path of least resistance, so if one branch was more restricted than the other would it cause discrepancies in flow? Would one path become stagnant compared to the other and compromise effectiveness?

Here's an idea of what I'm working with: I am using EK waterblocks entirely (Supreme HF, 2x FC 580s with a parallel SLI connector, FB-R3 Gene for my asus board) and an mcp655. My tubing is being split from 1/2"ID to 3/8"ID. I'm not sure if it matters, but I did some math and found that two sections of the 3/8" have a slightly higher volume than a 1/2" section of the same length. The way things are looking the VGA branch larger in volume than the CPU/chipset branch. I can't make any predictions about the overall resistance of either, but I'm hoping that any differences can be equalized by using EK's interchangeable jet plates supplied with the CPU block.

Is this an issue or am I thinking about it incorrectly?
Thanks,
-Matt

More about : splitting question

a b K Overclocking
December 11, 2010 3:15:46 PM

In general this bad idea,one branch will starved the other(the more restrictive one),on the other hand it have been done with minor performance hit, if you add jet plate (never have the urge to use them and can't comment on them ) or second pump it would definitely help I thing you be just fine
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December 11, 2010 3:37:40 PM

Right now I have an mo-ra3 and it's taking up all available radiator space. Is it plausible to route 2 pumps to the same radiator? If so could I run them at different speeds?
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a b K Overclocking
December 11, 2010 4:12:33 PM

Dual top like EK Dual D5 Top won't take much space (you want them run same speed) or you can have them installed in different part of the loop,man I would love to have one of this mo-ra's3.Try to run on single pump first or you could buy MCP35X that should be sufficient
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a c 324 K Overclocking
December 11, 2010 8:58:30 PM

Are you meaning making parallel splits in a single loop? Don't do it. If you are going to go that route, go dual loops altogether...dual pumps, dual sets of rads, everything. However, a single (serial) loop will cool better than 2 separate loops. The reason...you can use all the radiators to cool all the water for all components.

BTW...you are going to need at least 2x 320 rads for that...or something similar.
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a b K Overclocking
December 11, 2010 9:03:22 PM

rubix_1011 said:
Are you meaning making parallel splits in a single loop? Don't do it. If you are going to go that route, go dual loops altogether...dual pumps, dual sets of rads, everything. However, a single (serial) loop will cool better than 2 separate loops. The reason...you can use all the radiators to cool all the water for all components.

BTW...you are going to need at least 2x 320 rads for that...or something similar.


he have MO-RA3
Edit; with this " thing" single is all you need but he could try his set up and see if it's worth it,from Y to single it only takes 45 minuts to reroute the tubing;


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December 11, 2010 11:14:27 PM

At this point I've spent alot of money on parts, and doing a single serial loop would be cheapest and easiest. I suppose my question now is will a serial setup effectively cool a pair of 580's after passing through my CPU block? I would probably prioritize the CPU and VGA, making the loop look like this: Res>pump>rad>cpu>vga>chipset>res
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a b K Overclocking
December 11, 2010 11:58:26 PM

Yes you will be fine ,single loop is all that you need anyway ,are you going with compressions or barbs and what size ?The golden rule is res=> pump=>,the rest it does't matter
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22...
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=25...

The only thing I would suggest is to go serial dual pump set up with the top I posted above,but if you already bought the top
for your pump..give it a try for single MCP,may I ask what case do you have ?
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a c 324 K Overclocking
December 12, 2010 11:01:15 PM

Don't need to WC your chipset...not really necessary.

And loop order isn't really set in stone other than it's usually much easier to have your res before your pump (res > pump) and higher so it feeds the pump during initial filling and priming, as well as bleeding out air. Like I said, not mandatory, but simplifies things a lot. The rest of the loop is up to you, and you should only see a few *C difference in the water at any point in the loop in theory, if it's setup correctly.
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December 13, 2010 12:21:42 PM

I've made a compromise. I'm still splitting after the radiator, but there will be a 655 sucking on each branch (meaning there will be 2 pumps). My reservoir will be situated after the pumps, but is still above them. I've got easy access to the highest point in the loop. It falls straight into the 655s, so priming shouldn't be too bad (I'll probably end up poking my tubing through the bottom of a coolant-filled bowl). As for bleeding, I can always wrangle the stragglers into my res with some case acrobatics. That shouldn't be too bad either, because this is all being stuffed into an InWin Dragonslayer
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a c 324 K Overclocking
December 13, 2010 12:40:15 PM

Still thinking splitting this is a bad idea. You'd be much better off keeping everything in a series, instead of splitting into parallel.
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December 13, 2010 12:44:53 PM

Personally, with my last few builds, I got tired of the case-tipping usually involved in bleeding the lines. I put a t-line with a fillport on the line between my rad and pump, and hooked up a bottle of distilled screwed into the fillport and turned upside-down. I then turned on the PSU and let the pump go to town for a few hours. The line to the pump always had fluid, and any air in the loop eventually ended up in the bottle.

I eliminated the need for a reservoir, as well as my need to constantly monitor and replenish the fluid levels. And I no longer have to tip the case seven ways to Sunday just to get the freakin' air out.
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a c 324 K Overclocking
December 13, 2010 12:55:23 PM

OP would be better running those pumps in serial, along with everything else. He won't benefit at all from splitting the loop like this and might even be detrimental to flow and temps.

If you are going to run a single loop, run it serial. If you are going to run dual loops (which it sound like this is a makeshift attempt at) then run TWO DEDICATED SERIAL loops. Sorry, but I don't think you fully understand how you are crippling your loop with your design.

Splitting with 'Y's' has always been a frowned on idea in watercooling.
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December 13, 2010 1:04:25 PM

Also, rubix is right. It takes a lot of heat to change the temperature of 1 gram of water, so you won't seem more than a few C difference from one end of the loop to the other. In fact, if you use 2 separate rads, you can have one rad dumping heat after the CPU and the other dumping heat after the GPUs.

Rubix is also right that cooling your chipset isn't really necessary. Just be sure that you have active cooling in the case, though, especially around the MOSFETS for the CPU power supply. They are usually reliant on the CPU fan to move air over them, but if you have a water block there instead, you will need to provide that airflow elsewise. Also, if you OC the chipset, you might want to put an active HSF on it. But adding it to your loop? Not really necessary. I've done it in the past, but it really doesn't do much.
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a c 324 K Overclocking
December 13, 2010 1:11:36 PM

^I've also wc my northbridge; doesn't gain you anything, even in OC. Yeah, it keeps it a little cooler, but the NB is designed to run hotter than most other components, anyway.

If you run all your radiators in a single loop, you can benefit from having everything using the dissipation power of the rads. Serial...either in single loop or dual loop. Stay away from parallel, at all costs.
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December 13, 2010 1:26:05 PM

I don't understand, that's why I'm here. But I also don't understand how having two pumps pulling equally on split portions of the same loop is any different than the same two pumps pulling one after the other on a full portion. It's like 2 people pulling on a rope, except the rope is shaped like a y. Each person has their own "individual" rope, but they are still pulling back with the same force they would have if their hands were one after another on a continuous rope. In the end, the same pressure is still being applied right?
I'm not trying to be difficult here, and I am trying to do this right. I just think delivering the coolest possible liquid to both the cpu and the vga blocks is the way to go and this fake-dual loop seems like the best way to do it. I'd consider buying another rad and doing things your way if this mo-ra3 wasn't such a monster4
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a b K Overclocking
December 13, 2010 1:35:23 PM

Having two pump in serial will increaser redundancy but you and up with heat dump from the pumps, it's better to have them in in different part of loop
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a c 324 K Overclocking
December 13, 2010 1:38:50 PM

A 'Y' will just cause you problems with flow, even if you have a pump in each part of the split. Having 2 pumps in a serial will help with flow and redundancy, but heat dump isn't a huge issue with most pumps...relatively minimal. The amount of tubing and work it would take to set it up, wouldn't benefit you and would leave you with lower flow rates and warmer temps.

I run a single MCP655 through a Dtek CPU block, dual MCW60's, dual MCR320's and dual acrylic reservoirs that I made...and it still shows a lot of flow in the res's.
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December 13, 2010 1:48:31 PM

hmm.. ok. I think that's the killing blow to my argument. And you think a 655 will push through those blocks and my rad? I read something about the mo-ra2s being a little restrictive, but I couldn't find anything about the mo-ra3
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a c 324 K Overclocking
December 13, 2010 1:50:01 PM

For simplicity and removing any doubt, a single loop in serial is best. If he decides to run dual loops, he should really run dual, dedicated loops...otherwise he is just perpetuating the issues of running parallel.

I think people new to WC'ing try to overthink what they are doing or question what has been tried many times before. Sorry, just trying to provide information that has been tested in the past.

Going with this concept, I haven't seen any 'can I put my PC in a mini-fridge? I bet it would work GREAT!' threads. Let's keep it that way.

^OP, can you provide a link to the rad(s) you are using?
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a b K Overclocking
December 13, 2010 1:58:03 PM

mrcirillo said:
hmm.. ok. I think that's the killing blow to my argument. And you think a 655 will push through those blocks and my rad? I read something about the mo-ra2s being a little restrictive, but I couldn't find anything about the mo-ra3


If you have mo-ra you don't have to worry about much,you can have single loop, dual pump serial set up ,just make sure... res=>pump/s=>MO-RA=>rest

EDIT;I would prefer dual pump set up

EDIT again:
http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/519131-series-ve...
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a c 324 K Overclocking
December 13, 2010 2:03:06 PM

^Yep. I'd agree on that.
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a b K Overclocking
December 13, 2010 2:06:03 PM

rubix_1011 said:
For simplicity and removing any doubt, a single loop in serial is best. If he decides to run dual loops, he should really run dual, dedicated loops...otherwise he is just perpetuating the issues of running parallel.

I think people new to WC'ing try to overthink what they are doing or question what has been tried many times before. Sorry, just trying to provide information that has been tested in the past.

Going with this concept, I haven't seen any 'can I put my PC in a mini-fridge? I bet it would work GREAT!' threads. Let's keep it that way.

^OP, can you provide a link to the rad(s) you are using?


:lol: 
or you could do this;
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=662...
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a c 324 K Overclocking
December 13, 2010 2:27:41 PM

That would work too, until summer time. :)  I know for me, it's like 12 *F (-11 *C) in Kansas right now, but it was almost 60 *F (16 *C) last Thursday...and summers often hit 90-100 *F (32-38 *C) in August.

Just depends on where OP lives.
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December 13, 2010 2:36:48 PM

think a 35x could do the work of 2 655's? The PWM feature appeals to me
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a c 324 K Overclocking
December 13, 2010 2:38:37 PM

I don't think you'd need the power of dual MCP655's, personally. Running a single pump of either model would be fine.
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December 13, 2010 2:46:35 PM

Ok thanks for your help guys :) 
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!