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What makes best difference

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July 23, 2009 10:52:18 AM

Ok for the moment i'm sitting on a pretty crappy computer and i have plans to upgrade it. I just wonder what will the biggest difference in games when i upgrade? will it be the graphic card the processor or the ram?

I got:
XfX Nvidia Geforce 8600 256mb
Intel core 2 duo @ 2.66ghz
2gb of ram Corsair 667mhz
a P35 Neo motherboard with DDR2 sockets
750W Power supply

a limit on about 500€ for all together because i plan to upgrade it all, just wonder what i should lay the most money on

I will also upgrade my case to a HAF32 from a cooler master centurion black something, it's not on sale anymore and it's not too good.

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a b à CPUs
July 23, 2009 11:15:46 AM

4GB of 1066 mhz ddr2. if you dont have a good cooler on your cpu, grab one. then overclock the crap out of your processor. it has a lot of untapped potential. p35 is a great overclocking chipset too.

after that, a GPU upgrade. take a look around. 4870s and better are nice. gtx260 and better are nice.

you might want to grab 2 4870s. they can be found super cheap and your board supports crossfire.

the beauty is you are already sporting a quality psu, (im assuming.) and can make this upgrade with no problems.
July 23, 2009 1:08:44 PM

so i'll have to find a guide on how to max the *** out of my processor? ^^ well i have the stock cooler on. I think it's good i've never seen it overheat atleast
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a b à CPUs
July 23, 2009 1:10:59 PM

its easy peasy. with the better ram you can turn your FSB up, by turning your FSB up to 800 mhz, you would have a 3.2 ghz processor. 900 gets your 3.6. 1000 gets your 4.0 (dont aim for 4.0 with that processor. aim for between 3.2 and 3.6.. probably 3.4)

im assuming its an e6750.
a b à CPUs
July 23, 2009 1:14:02 PM

ergh, cant edit my comments today. im thinking about it, and you might be able to get away with your overclocks with a stock cooler. core2duos run pretty cool. give it a shot, monitor your temps.
July 23, 2009 1:14:26 PM

i will check if it's an e6750 when i come home from work. Do i need to open my case or do it say it under my system information?
a b à CPUs
July 23, 2009 1:14:50 PM

itll be in your system info.
July 23, 2009 1:14:58 PM

i can always increase the fan speed :p 
July 23, 2009 1:15:31 PM

ok thanks (this is like chatting lol)
a b à CPUs
July 23, 2009 1:16:23 PM

anytime. ^^ some people read the morning paper and drink their coffee.

i got a pot of tea going and toms. =D
July 23, 2009 1:18:40 PM

i've singed up last week and i've been stunned since o.o best forum i've ever found :D 
a b à CPUs
July 23, 2009 1:39:10 PM

Once you hit 4 gigs of ram, you're set. Tighter timings will help a little, but I wouldn't spend too much more on them than a standard set. You'll see better returns from your GPU upgrade. The P35 chipset only sports PCIe x16 1.1. So I wouldn't consider crossfiring 4870s on that board. x8 on 1.1 is too low for that card. If you are keeping the P35 board, the 4870 1gb is a great single card solution. But if you're playing at 1680x1050 or lower, the 4850 1gb would do well for less money. The C2D should OC nicely though. Might be worth buying the GPU first and OC with the stock fan, seeing how the results are. If you like them, OC with an aftermarket fan and upgrade the ram. If you want more, go for the gusto and fully upgrade. You'll already have the GPU.

If you're doing a full guts upgrade with ram/cpu/mobo/ and GPU, look at AMD Phenom II x3s. They are one of the best price/performance chips right now. If you want CF as an option, the 790GX is nice and the 790FX cost more but will have a little better CF performance. If you're only doing a single GPU and don't want to CF, then a 770 or 790GX is a good option. I'd get the DDR3 boards and ram though. Its a little more now, but if the AM4s (many many moons away) supports the next gen memory standard and DDR3 (like the AM3s support DDR2 and DDR3) then you won't have to buy new ram on the next system upgrade.
July 23, 2009 2:31:17 PM

eeeerhm i was wrong about my cpu =/ it was only 2.33 Ghz (i was at work so i assumed it was 2.66). Should i buy a new one or can i overclock this to about 3?
July 23, 2009 2:31:37 PM

and it's E6550
July 23, 2009 2:33:22 PM

and i usually play at 1280x1024 and i've found cheap 2x2gig rams that would upgrade my ram to 6gig. Is it worth it?
a b à CPUs
July 23, 2009 2:39:46 PM

you usually cannot simply add ram slots in, open it up and see how many slots you got

also, depends on ram, they may or may not co-operate with each other well

also, 32 bit OS cannot see beyond 4 gig (3.25 if you have some dedicated video card ram, which you do) you have to move to 64 bit to use all that ram

also, maybe a better gfx is in order? a nice GTS250 should do the trick at that res or a 4870 if you want more bang (but it would not stretch its legs at that res), and the CPU is fine imo OC it if you want
a b à CPUs
July 23, 2009 3:09:42 PM

You wouldn't want to just add ram either, it will all run at the slowest speed ram. And you won't use more than 4 gigs gaming anyway.

On DDR2-800, you can OC the CPU to 2.8 ghz without having to OC the ram. 3.0 should be fine to hit on the E6550 and I've read it can be done on stock HSF. With a 7x multiplier though, you have to run the FSB high to get higher speeds and that is where higher clocked ram will help.

The GTS250 or HD 4850 will be more than enough for you. I have the 4850 on that res and can play crysis on high with 35+ FPS. But if you think you might want to do a full upgrade, the 4870 is a great buy right now (in the states anyway) and it gives more options down the line. So I'd still start with the GPU, OC the CPU, and see where you are at. If you need more power to satisfy your needs, then do a mobo/cpu upgrade as noted above.
July 23, 2009 3:29:52 PM

theholylancer said:
you usually cannot simply add ram slots in, open it up and see how many slots you got


i got 4 ram slots...
a b à CPUs
July 23, 2009 3:48:41 PM

i havent looked into that specific core2 that you have. but they all overclock well, frankly.

what skora is telling you is correct, you wont want to use your old ram, its slow.

when i said a 4 GB upgrade, it was to REPLACE your current ram. 667 is just slow.
July 23, 2009 3:54:52 PM

so if i dont take out my old ram memory and just stick the ones i'm buying in them slots. Would that make it slower then to push them into the old slots and toss away my old ram?
a b à CPUs
July 23, 2009 3:57:56 PM

Yes, 6 gigs of 667 will perform slower than 4 gigs of 800.
a b à CPUs
July 23, 2009 3:58:11 PM

they all have to clock at the same speed. considering your 667s cant magically go faster (or maybe they can, my kingston generic 667 clocks up to 800 with NO problems. i honestly think it was 800mhz ram, binned down.) your new faster ram, would have to be downclocked in order to match your older ram, and that defeats the purpose of your ram upgrade. you want new ram for the faster FSB of 800mhz or 1066mhz.

*edit* just read skoras comment on p35 pci-e x16 1.1 downgrading to 8x (1.1) and that being too slow for a 4870.

good call!

you might want to invest in a better single gpu solution. a gtx275, ati 4890, or even a gtx285 if u got money to burn. (if for no other reason than it has a better cooler than the gtx 275.)
July 23, 2009 6:32:55 PM

okay thanks again neophyte for your covering answers =D and i've been looking at 4890's but the problem is that they aint so much better then the 4870's, according to my PC magazine PC GAMER SWEDEN it only have about 10% increased speed and it's about 50€ expensiver... think i will stick with the single 4870 1gb. Should i take Sapphire or XFX or HIS? They appear to have the best stock coolers. Asus one sucked i heard from my magazine.
July 23, 2009 6:36:45 PM

btw my pc magazine recommends the PowerColor radeon 4890 1gb very strongly else. It costs around 23€
July 23, 2009 6:36:59 PM

230€* :p 
July 23, 2009 6:53:44 PM

okay this was strange.... on my software cpu-z it says my RAM is at 667mhz but when i shut the computer down and checked the sticker on my ram it said 800... wtf?
a b à CPUs
July 23, 2009 7:08:16 PM

not that strange, crank your ram up to 800.
July 23, 2009 8:25:35 PM

yeah i managed to tune them up to 800 now (yippie =D) would that mean i should buy 1066 mhz 4gig instead and replace? or even 1666mhz?
a b à CPUs
July 23, 2009 8:44:32 PM

Before buying any ram, OC the CPU. No point in buying ram that you can't use if you have to replace the CPU and mobo.

I'd get the 4870 unless you see a monitor upgrade in the next year or two. You won't be able to use all of the 4870 and definately will be wasting money on the 4890 if you are only going to play at 1280x1024. As for brands, any will work at 1280x1024. No need to spend extra on the BEST 4870 when you are only going to use 80% of the lowest performer anyway.

If the OC CPU and GPU get you close to the performance you want your system to be at, then buy more ram. Depending on the OC you can get will determine if 1066 would provide any benefit or if 800 is more than enough.

Also, what operating system do you run?
a b à CPUs
July 23, 2009 8:58:01 PM

so, are you matching your cpu fsb to your rams fsb?

are you now overclocking that cpu?

if not, do it. ^^
July 24, 2009 1:12:08 PM

i am a noob at overclocking as i said =( i need some kind of guide and please no shortwords like FSB :p  call it what it's full name is. Like Fsomething Ssomething Bus i guess. See me as a total noob when it comes to CPU overclocking :p  and i got help from my brother to "overclock" or remove the underclock on my ram. So i think i can claim some more *** out of that too. Maybe 900mhz or something
a b à CPUs
July 24, 2009 1:47:03 PM

800 is probably as far as itll go. just guessing tho.

FSB = Front Side Bus

your overall mhz is calculated off 2 stats. 1) FSB 2)multiplier.

FSB x Multiplier = mhz (megahertz) of your processor.

ie. you have a 2.33 ghz machine, which is 2330 mhz. you achieve this with a FSB of 333 and a multiplier of 7. your multiplier is locked. (well, u can turn it down, but not up.)

what you have done now is turned your FSB from 333 to 400. so now, your MHZ on your processor is now (400x7) which is 2800 mhz. or 2.8 ghz.

however! you may not have fixed your CPUS FSB to be the same as the FSB on your ram. you CAN clock them seperately. (although you shouldnt.) so, right now, your ram might be running at 800mhz (400 FSB, it gets multiplied by 2) but the frontside bus for your cpu could still be 333. you should check to make sure that the frontside bus for your cpu is now 400... just like your ram. that way your cpu is running at 2.8 ghz.

i hope thats clear. i can understand if its not.
July 24, 2009 2:15:36 PM

wich tool should i use to do that? BIOS?

Thanks very much btw :p 
a b à CPUs
July 24, 2009 2:38:03 PM

yes, this is all done in the bios.

explain to your brother that you want the frontside bus of your cpu, to match the frontside bus of your ram. 400 (x2 = 800).

then, when you are booting, your cpu speed should be displayed at 2.8 and not 2.33
a c 96 à CPUs
July 24, 2009 2:48:04 PM

Make sure your RAMs are set 1:1. When you raise the FSB to 400 they will be running 800MHz.
July 24, 2009 3:09:29 PM

i raised my FSB so my cpu goes at 2.667ghz but now CPU-Z says DRAM Frequency 380.1 mhz :S
July 24, 2009 3:11:54 PM

a 1:1 FSB:RAM ratio is better than any other ratio, hence why it's lower.
July 24, 2009 3:14:22 PM

what?
July 24, 2009 3:19:50 PM

now i tuned the FSB to 400 as u said my cpu is 2.8 now. But cpu-z says my ram is on 400mhz? is it 400mhz each leads to 800mhz or what?
a b à CPUs
July 24, 2009 3:45:57 PM

That is what you should see. Being it is DDR2 (Double Data Rate) is what the chips will run at. 400mhz bus speed X DDR = 800mhz ram speed. The 2 on the DDR2 isn't a multiplier, just the revision of the standard for ram.

What are your temps and what program are you using to check them?
July 24, 2009 3:47:02 PM

cpu abouy 40oc

speedfan
July 24, 2009 3:50:06 PM

atm cpu is at 37 degrees and my fan speed is 1991 RPM
a b à CPUs
July 24, 2009 3:53:45 PM

Not familar with speed fan and its accuracy. Have you installed Orthos or Prime95 yet? What are you're temps when the CPU is fully loaded (running either program?)
July 24, 2009 3:53:48 PM

my speed fan says this:

Fan 1: 1951 RPM Temp 1: 37C
Fan 2: 1114 RPM Temp 2: 33C
Fan 3: 1305 RPM Temp 3 -128C (?)
Fan 4: 0 rpm (?) HD0: 39C
Core 0: 17C
Core 1: 17C

I think Core 0 and 1 is my gpu and temp 1 is my cpu. Because at my last graphic card my fan broke and core 1 said 137C :p 

Does these temperatures mean i can OC more?
July 24, 2009 3:54:50 PM

hmm my comment looked so much better before i posted it >.<
a b à CPUs
July 24, 2009 3:56:36 PM

Core 0 and Core 1 are both CPU. If the idle temps are 17, that is good news. But idle temps really don't mean anything, its under load that you want to check.

Like I said, i'd have to try speedfan to find out what the Fan3 is looking at and where that temp is coming from. But not at home on my comp so can't do it today.
July 24, 2009 3:57:10 PM

downloaded both prime95 and orthos
July 24, 2009 3:58:59 PM

should i use orthos to stress them?
July 24, 2009 4:00:23 PM

woa i ran the stress test with ortos and temp 1 went up to 50C with a burning icon beside it :S that aint good i guess
!