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Good Budget AM2+ Gaming Cpu

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July 28, 2009 3:06:24 PM

I bought my first gaming computer just over a week ago from best buy. It was a gateway. This is the computer that I bought. http://www.gateway.com/systems/product/529668220.php
I thought that it would be a fine gaming computer as long as I upgraded the power supply and the video card. So I but a 500 watt power supply in it and a Radeon 4870 and guess what, I get low fps in everything. Than I found out that my CPU being a 1.8ghz Quad core phenom whas just not going to cut it. I would like to upgrade my CPU. My mobo is the AMD® 780G Chipset. Appearntly it is already too old to be upgraded to the latest processers. :fou:  Since it has the AM2+ socket in it. Am2+ mobos are backwards compatible with am3 processers! :D  but of cores because I bought my computer from gateway, they did not release the bios update to make them compatable with am3 processers. :cry:  They just want you to buy a new computer that I just bought about a week ago. SHAME ON THEM! :non:  I am looking at a few nice gaming cpu's to upgrade to.
Please tell me which one I should upgrade too or suggest different ones.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819103291

Oh wait!! I dont think my mobo can only support up to a 95 watt cpu. I dont know if this is correct but if it is..... look here http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/ [...] ble-system

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819103252

This one should work but I dont know

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819103295

This one looks fine but I really would like to not go over $120

Ok the last one. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819103645

This one looks good for gaming! But it is am2 not am2+ and I am not sure if it will work. I noticed that it said " Cooling device not included - Processor Only" NOOOOO
The end of a good deal. This wont work with my current cooler will it? Or maybe it will

Thanks everyone for your help!

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July 28, 2009 6:14:32 PM

You should have done some research before buying that PC.It was definitely a budget PC to begin with.It's far better to build a custom PC instead rather than buying a name brand one and be stuck with few upgrade options.However I noticed that some of the models have the faster 2.3 Ghz Quad Core Phenom X4 9650 CPU which is .5 Ghz faster with that Foxconn (Bengal) RS 780 G motherboard.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Since you have already modified it,it's doubtful that best buy would take it back.
You could upgrade the CPU with limitations though and keep it as a secondary PC.
What you could also do since you have purchased a Radeon 4870 graphics card is to use it instead on a new custom PC build and just ask everyone here what they suggest on a budget.If you want the new faster Phenom II series there are some outstanding deals on some Phenom II's with motherboards over at newegg.
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July 28, 2009 8:35:49 PM

There was a phenom (not phenom 2) that was a 3.0ghz quad core and would work fine.
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July 29, 2009 12:00:38 AM

jj463rd said:
You should have done some research before buying that PC.It was definitely a budget PC to begin with.It's far better to build a custom PC instead rather than buying a name brand one and be stuck with few upgrade options.However I noticed that some of the models have the faster 2.3 Ghz Quad Core Phenom X4 9650 CPU which is .5 Ghz faster with that Foxconn (Bengal) RS 780 G motherboard.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Since you have already modified it,it's doubtful that best buy would take it back.
You could upgrade the CPU with limitations though and keep it as a secondary PC.
What you could also do since you have purchased a Radeon 4870 graphics card is to use it instead on a new custom PC build and just ask everyone here what they suggest on a budget.If you want the new faster Phenom II series there are some outstanding deals on some Phenom II's with motherboards over at newegg.

He just spent over $500 between the computer and upgrades he purchased. That suggestion probably won't work.....

The solution is to figure out the highest processor the motherboard in your system will take. There are Phenom II's that are AM2+ (the 920 and 940) but they are 125watt TDP. If your mobo supports them, pull the trigger one one of them and your good to go.
July 29, 2009 12:09:08 AM

Ok Thanks!
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July 29, 2009 12:10:16 AM

The fastest Phenom Quad Core was the 2.6 Ghz Phenom X4 9950 BE which came out in the early version with a 140 watt TDP and a later model which had a 125 watt TPD.
What proceeded it was the 2.5 Ghz Phenom X4 9850 BE which had a TPD of 125 watts.
There was also a 2.4 Ghz Phenom X4 9750 with a TPD of 125 watts but some 9750's for name brand computers could obtain a 95 watt TPD model.The 95 watt TDP 2.4 Ghz Phenom X4 9750 I have never seen sold retail.So the fastest quad core (Agena) Phenom you could buy is the 2.3 Ghz Phenom X4 9650.

As to running a dual core (Agena) Phenom on that motherboard it would most likely work however one would have to see if there is a BIOS update for it to be recognized and so far I couldn't find one.

There is a 3.0 Ghz (Deneb) AM2+ Phenom II X4 940 BE but that is the later Phenom II series although it's meant for AM2+ based motherboards.I have heard that some people have tried the 940 on your motherboard but that it is quite risky because it exceeds the TPD limit.Many 780G based motherboards would blow out their MOSFET's with the 125 watt TPD Phenoms so it's not recommended unless the motherboard manufacturer specifies that it is O.K. to do so.

There was an article about 780 G chipset motherboards last year and many of them failed within a week of use when used with a 125 TDP CPU like the Phenom X4 9850 BE even when run at just stock speeds.There are however newer 780 G motherboards that are capable of using 125 watt TPD CPU's though.

Honestly the 9650 would be the best bet as Gateway used that motherboard with the 9650 in a similar model and I think that it is the fastest 95 watt TDP quad Core CPU that his motherboard supports (Poor CPU support on BIOS updates).
July 29, 2009 1:57:23 PM

Would I be able to over clock it if I got it because I cant over clock it now.
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July 29, 2009 2:41:51 PM

Only if you do it with the FSB. The 9650 is multiplier locked. Also, box store computers are not known for their ability to overclock. Just buy the best cpu your motherboard can support.
July 29, 2009 8:18:34 PM

I am really looking at buying this one. It looks pretty good and I dont think that I need to overclock it. Should I get this one?
July 30, 2009 1:25:49 PM

i don't know if you have your heart set on a quad or not, but i think with the limits on your bios upgrades and socket wattage you'd do best with a kuma 7750 or 7850 if gaming is your aim. Box mobo's are known for poor to no overclocking ability but you might get lucky with AMD's overdrive software suite and bump the multiplier on the kuma BE's for a stable 3ghz.
Also Check gateway's site some, sometimes they do release bios updates you might get lucky and be able to step into the PII's.

edit my bad i think you need the SB750 to run the overdrive suite. Anyone know for sure?
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July 30, 2009 1:32:47 PM

Phenom II X3 710?
July 30, 2009 3:05:17 PM

I just had a chat with a gateway person and they said it only supports up to 95 watts! COME ON A BRAND NEW COMPUTER!
July 30, 2009 5:13:17 PM

rosenberg1979 said:
i don't know if you have your heart set on a quad or not, but i think with the limits on your bios upgrades and socket wattage you'd do best with a kuma 7750 or 7850 if gaming is your aim. Box mobo's are known for poor to no overclocking ability but you might get lucky with AMD's overdrive software suite and bump the multiplier on the kuma BE's for a stable 3ghz.
Also Check gateway's site some, sometimes they do release bios updates you might get lucky and be able to step into the PII's.

edit my bad i think you need the SB750 to run the overdrive suite. Anyone know for sure?

I dont know If I should get this one if i overclock it to 2.8: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
or this one
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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July 30, 2009 6:09:05 PM

You don't want the Phenom X4 9600 BE.It was one of the original Phenom's which were defective and had the TLB bug in it.The ones ending in 00 were the defective early versions and the ones ending in 50 were the fixed versions that didn't have the bug and worked fine.Also I would not overclock on a 780 G board that specifies a 95 watt TDP CPU again because you could blow out the MOSFET's.Your board might support that 2.4 Ghz Phenom X3 8750 Toliman CPU since they came out before the 9100e was released.
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July 30, 2009 10:56:52 PM

I am currently overclocking on a 95watt only board. No problems at all. In fact, I use the 9600 BE. TLB issue aside, if he cant support a Phenom II, he might as well go for the 9600. What other choice would he have if he wants a quad, without throwing away the computer he just bought?
July 30, 2009 11:45:36 PM

CooLWoLF said:
I am currently overclocking on a 95watt only board. No problems at all. In fact, I use the 9600 BE. TLB issue aside, if he cant support a Phenom II, he might as well go for the 9600. What other choice would he have if he wants a quad, without throwing away the computer he just bought?

How far were you able to overclock your 9600 be to? Because if you were able to overclock it to 2.5ghz than why not get it? No game for a very long time is going to need more than 2.5 is it? I heard that the new games are going to use quad cores much better than they do now! And it comes with stalker clear sky for free!
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July 31, 2009 12:00:49 AM

i know they said that they didnt release a new bios, but u could still try running an am3 cpu, borrow a friend's.
July 31, 2009 12:05:13 AM

xaira said:
i know they said that they didnt release a new bios, but u could still try running an am3 cpu, borrow a friend's.

I dont have any friends that have good pcs.
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July 31, 2009 12:13:46 AM

I am currently clocked at 2.7ghz. I upped the multiplier to 13.5 and the voltage to 1.4v. If your considering a Phenom 9600, make sure you are fully aware of the TLB issue. It can cause stability issues (random system halts). There is a fix, but it degrades performance.
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July 31, 2009 1:26:12 AM

Here is an older thread I found about a different Gateway Model but with the same motherboard.He claims that the 3.0 Ghz AM2+ Phenom II X4 940 works on the motherboard.It looks like 2 people have done this.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/258383-30-bios-help

Here is also another thread be sure to read it.
http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/536837.aspx

Perhaps you could put an extra fan on the MOSFET's if you got the 940 but don't consider any overclock on it.
Also see this article about undervolting Phenom II X4 CPU's as this would reduce the power consumption and make it less likely that the 940 would fry that Foxconn (Bengal) motherboard.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/undervolt-cpu-pheno...
July 31, 2009 2:20:30 AM

well as one last quip on this, what you have is a mobo that is really holding you back, if you want to game now, i'd really suggest getting a cheap higher clocked dual core as a stopgap. kuma or even an old athalon (the 3.1ghz brisbane is 62.99 on the egg) to save a few bucks. Sell whatever came with it your rig on e-bay you might even break even on a $60 dual. Next save your pennies. You can always get one of the last AM2+ (790x gx fx whatever) boards they will take your ram and cpu as well as every am2/am2+/am3 cpu AMD has out to date. I run a 7750, in a gigabyte 790X am2+ board with my old 9800gtx it games well at 1280x1024. I got the kuma a while back as just such a stopgap and it's served me so well that i'm not in a rush for the PII just yet, but i have that option open when i want it.

however that is just my 2 cents, whatever you put in that has a higher clock speed than 1.8ghz is gonna be an improvement.

ps what games do you play, and what is your monitors native resolution?
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July 31, 2009 2:23:14 AM

The TLB bug is fixed on most newer mobo's.
July 31, 2009 2:25:18 AM

jj463rd said:
Here is an older thread I found about a different Gateway Model but with the same motherboard.He claims that the 3.0 Ghz AM2+ Phenom II X4 940 works on the motherboard.It looks like 2 people have done this.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/258383-30-bios-help

Here is also another thread be sure to read it.
http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/536837.aspx

Perhaps you could put an extra fan on the MOSFET's if you got the 940 but don't consider any overclock on it.
Also see this article about undervolting Phenom II X4 CPU's as this would reduce the power consumption and make it less likely that the 940 would fry that Foxconn (Bengal) motherboard.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/undervolt-cpu-pheno...

I may try that but I dont know that I want to know if I want to risk it.
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July 31, 2009 2:42:08 AM

Another option since you can't take it back to Best Buy would be to sell the system on Craigslist at a slight loss (since it is used).I've even sold used systems at a profit so that is possible too.If you sell the system you could start fresh on a much better custom PC.My advise when selling the system would be to mention the model,say that it has a quad core CPU in it,say that it has been used for about a month's time but avoid mentioning its speed.If asked why you are selling it just say that you are getting a Mac (or some other excuse).
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July 31, 2009 4:29:34 AM

jennyh said:
The TLB bug is fixed on most newer mobo's.

Yes, but you take a performance hit.
July 31, 2009 4:32:05 AM

I really dont know which one to get. I would really like to get the 9600 but i dont know if that would be good for crysis.
July 31, 2009 2:48:10 PM

amdfangirl said:
AM3 is cross-compatible with AM2+

You can't put an AM2+ CPU in a AM3 mobo tho.

Yes that is true, but this requires a bios update. Gateway has not released this bios update in hopes of making you buy a new computer. :non: 
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July 31, 2009 5:09:36 PM

Here is the performance hit on the Phenom X4 9600 BE with the TLB fix in this review of the Phenom X4 9850 BE
It doesn't look pretty.There is even one benchmark for the game Crysis showing that it runs at 74% of it's performance with the TLB fix enabled.Basically your 1.8 Ghz Phenom X4 9150e CPU would outperform the 2.3 Ghz Phenom 9600 here by a little bit if the TLB fix was enabled on the 9600.
http://www.behardware.com/articles/713-1/amd-phenom-985...

Even the 2.3 Ghz Phenom X4 9650 outperforms the Phenom X4 9600 BE at stock speeds on the PC game crysis.This is of course running the 9600 BE without the TLB fix.So basically think of the 9650 as the fixed version (no TLB bug) of the 9600 BE except a little bit faster.You can still overclock the 9650 though its multiplier is just locked.
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July 31, 2009 5:39:02 PM

I run my 9600 with the TLB fix OFF. I turn it on manually in AMD Overdrive if I am paranoid while doing something important like college reports. I must say though, I have never had a lock-up during use when I have the fix OFF. From what i have read, it can only occur under very heavy loads, and in rare circumstances.
July 31, 2009 5:42:31 PM

Ok I think that I will be getting the 9650 or the athlon x2 3.1ghz than. Thanks!
August 2, 2009 3:34:36 AM

Its not possible for this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
cpu to run in a am2 mobo without a bios update is it. Could I just put it in there and try it? Or is there like a 90-100% chance that it will not work with out a bios update.
If so there is really no way to like get a different bios from somewhere else?
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August 2, 2009 4:12:36 AM

You'd get "unknown processor" in the BIOS or it won't work.

Sometimes the mobo might be pre-updated.
August 2, 2009 2:05:26 PM

amdfangirl said:
You'd get "unknown processor" in the BIOS or it won't work.

Sometimes the mobo might be pre-updated.

Is there any way to check if my mobo is "Pre Updated"?
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August 3, 2009 9:50:09 AM

Ask, usally has something to do with the serial or product number.
August 7, 2009 10:52:49 PM

I have an older gateway lx6200 with the same mobo but 9500 2.2ghz
Before you do anything drastic why not try using the fusion for gaming program found here http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_fusion.aspx?p=1
Using fusion gives me a big boost in frame rates as my card is bottlenecked by the cpu.
I use it with my 4770(<4870) and I get much better performance. I get 11000 on 3dmark06.
Also try using the ati 9.7 driver as it specifically includes improved performance for crysis.
Use ati overdrive autotune instead of setting it yourself.
Disable cool n quiet in the bios!
August 7, 2009 11:09:57 PM

raystauber said:
I have an older gateway lx6200 with the same mobo but 9500 2.2ghz
Before you do anything drastic why not try using the fusion for gaming program found here http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_fusion.aspx?p=1
Using fusion gives me a big boost in frame rates as my card is bottlenecked by the cpu.
I use it with my 4770(<4870) and I get much better performance. I get 11000 on 3dmark06.
Also try using the ati 9.7 driver as it specifically includes improved performance for crysis.
Use ati overdrive autotune instead of setting it yourself.
Disable cool n quiet in the bios!

Thanks for the reply! I already used the fusion for gaming program and it seems to boost performance buy a few fps but It is still laggy, I already have the the 9.7 driver. I can not use the ati overdrive auto tune because where it says start auto tune, it is grayed out :fou:  oh well. I will try disabling cool and quiet in the bios and see if that helps!
Thanks!
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August 8, 2009 1:33:39 AM

Here is a crysis benchmark for an old Tom's hardware system marathon budget build back in March 2008 with the 2.2 Ghz Phenom X4 9500 CPU.It says that if you select medium settings for crysis you will be able to run it in 1920 by 1200 resolution.You might want to read the whole article since it will give you some hints.It looks like all you have to do is just tweak your game with lower settings so it will play right.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/system-builder-mara...
August 8, 2009 1:49:30 AM

rajadog said:
Thanks for the reply! I already used the fusion for gaming program and it seems to boost performance buy a few fps but It is still laggy, I already have the the 9.7 driver. I can not use the ati overdrive auto tune because where it says start auto tune, it is grayed out :fou:  oh well. I will try disabling cool and quiet in the bios and see if that helps!
Thanks!


Also,
I have seen some forums where the card was running PCIE x16 @ 1x instead of x16 @ 16x for some odd reason. http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topi...
August 10, 2009 2:23:18 PM

In cpu-z under bios it says American Megatrends Inc, Than it says version: 7b3p091g. Could I possibly get a bios update from american megatrends. They have bios updates but I have no clue which one too choose or if it will work. Is it possible that one of these updates will work. Because when I go into the bios, it looks exactly like these updates and i would just like to make sure that it does not work before I buy a am2+ cpu. Thanks!
August 10, 2009 5:39:47 PM

I wonder if you have a different motherboard. Mine is AMI 87IP011G. The motherboard I have is a Foxconn Bengal but is only supported by Gateway and is avail at their support site. If you have the same motherboard I wonder if the AM3 95w processors are supported by your BIOS since it would might be an updated BIOS. I was thinking of buying a Phenom II x4 945 95w AM3.
August 10, 2009 6:34:28 PM

raystauber said:
I wonder if you have a different motherboard. Mine is AMI 87IP011G. The motherboard I have is a Foxconn Bengal but is only supported by Gateway and is avail at their support site. If you have the same motherboard I wonder if the AM3 95w processors are supported by your BIOS since it would might be an updated BIOS. I was thinking of buying a Phenom II x4 945 95w AM3.

If this is correct, should I just order a am3 processor from new egg and it it doesnt work will they allow me to return it?
August 10, 2009 6:37:31 PM

I contacted ami support and this is what they said
Thank you for contacting AMI Tech Support,

According to the information you have provided, you have an Gateway motherboard. For any possible Bios upgrades, drivers or any other technical support you will need to visit www.gateway.com.

The motherboard manufacturer has customized an AMI core BIOS for specific purposes on their motherboard. This is why you see our name posting at the beginning of your boot up screen. There is nothing that AMI can do to assist you. You might contact the place of purchase for help, or try to read the name off the motherboard itself. Internet searches for any names you get will undoubtedly provide the best answers.


Regards,
AMI Tech Support
770-246-8600
I thin that I could still try a am3 socket because there is a chance it may work since I have herd other people getting it to work.
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August 10, 2009 9:49:53 PM

rajadog said:
If this is correct, should I just order a am3 processor from new egg and it it doesnt work will they allow me to return it?

Just look at their return policy.It doesn't look likely as it's a non refundable item and the CPU is replaced with the same type if defective.
http://www.newegg.com/HelpInfo/ReturnPolicy.aspx#39
August 10, 2009 11:53:12 PM

Gateway has a DX 4300 for sale that has a phenom II x4 810 which is an AM3 95w. I think that it has the same foxconn bengal motherboard. If I can get my hands on that new bios I am considering buying that 945
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August 11, 2009 2:26:51 AM

Is it a micro atx motherboard by chance? I would avoid an Phenom I based cpu other than maybe the Kuma's with your current board. Your best bet might be something like this if the board will work with your current case. AMD based OEM's tend to be more forgiving than the Intel ones in that regard.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...


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