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MA790FXT and G Skill Ripjaws 1600 77724 1.65v Help

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October 13, 2009 12:59:07 AM

I have an MA790FXT board with G Skill Ripjaws http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820231279

SPD says the ram has timings of 9 9 9 24, though the memory is advertised as being 7 7 7 24 on the box. I try to set the timings to 7 7 7 24 and I get 12 beeps and a boot error. DRAM voltage is set to 1.615 so i set it to 1.65 volts, same problem.

I also am running a stock 955 atm. Can someone tell me what I am doing wrong?
October 13, 2009 1:32:26 AM

the best timings I can get is 8-7-7-24 with a voltage of 1.61 . Increasing it to 1.65 volts does not allow me to increase CAS timing to 7. The ram is specced at 1.65 volts so i haven't really wanted to go over that. Anyone dealt with this problem?
a c 177 V Motherboard
October 13, 2009 1:34:16 AM

Download this:
http://www.tweakers.fr/download/MemSet41b4.zip
Somehow (probably CPU-Z) you're not seeing the whole SPD, including the EPP/XMP profiles, which is where your 'higher speed' settings are stored...
Related resources
October 13, 2009 3:28:19 AM

bilbat said:
Download this:
http://www.tweakers.fr/download/MemSet41b4.zip
Somehow (probably CPU-Z) you're not seeing the whole SPD, including the EPP/XMP profiles, which is where your 'higher speed' settings are stored...


I'm not running CPU-Z yet. I haven't put the system on the net yet, I will see about getting that program and putting it on my computer.

I don't understand why not seeing the whole SPD would cause the problem. My understanding of SPD is that it just stores the ram settings. You mention EPP/XMP profiles as higher speed settings, that I am not seeing. Are those profiles more than just for telling the mobo that the ram runs with these settings, do they also say "These are the settings the ram runs at, and this is how you use it" ?
a b V Motherboard
October 13, 2009 3:49:38 AM

You're right about the spd as I understand it. Bilbat is an expert tho. XMP is not involved since you're using AMD.

But is your RAM running at 1600? You mention the timing, but not the speed.

And try tweaking the voltage up to 1.7 also - 1st thing to try when you can't get advertised latency from the RAM.

Have you previously had problems getting full speed/timing on this motherboard?

Are you runing 2 - 2GB modules? Or 4? Is there other RAM in the system?

Your link didn't work - is this the one?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Are you sure you got this RAM and not a different RipJaws model? Chk the label
F3-12800CL7D-4GBRH

Are you "Frank" from the NewEgg comments or is someone else with the same board having identical problems?

(I keep editing this!)

The MB specs mention 1666 speed only with AM3 processors, which yours is. But are you running the F5 or greater BIOS rev? F5 is needed for the 955 cpu.
a c 177 V Motherboard
October 13, 2009 3:52:09 AM

The SPD on faster chips is 'extended' with extra timing tables that contain the settings for the higher speed - some BIOS will set them automatically by using the "Load Optimized Defaults" function - some need to be 'tweaked' by hand; can't tell by looking, and I'm not a big fan of AMD, so I don't know firsthand. Use of the tool I mentioned will show you pretty much all the settings, if you need to set 'em manually. You are only going by the first four items of the timing set - there are at least six more that need to be correctly set, not counting the separate tRFCs for each DIMM: tWTR, tWR, tRFC, tRTP, tRC, and CPC...
a b V Motherboard
October 13, 2009 4:15:02 AM

That's true, I've not had trouble with the "other numbers" myself and am frustrated that CPUz doesn't list them all. So is the list in memset the "complete" list of everything that's included in the spd? What about the nanosecond stuff that's often available, I never see that in the spd.

So the thinking is that the other numbers may need to be tweaked to get the main CL=7 number down, right? And need Memset to read those numbers.

And there's no reason to hold off on connecting a computer to the net or installing windows because the timing isn't perfect? Or even the speed? As long as the correct amt of RAM is showing at any speed, you should go ahead and install Windows, update your drivers and get everything running - then work on the other stuff like timing and speed of RAM.
October 13, 2009 5:17:30 AM

Mongox said:
You're right about the spd as I understand it. Bilbat is an expert tho. XMP is not involved since you're using AMD.

But is your RAM running at 1600? You mention the timing, but not the speed.

And try tweaking the voltage up to 1.7 also - 1st thing to try when you can't get advertised latency from the RAM.

Have you previously had problems getting full speed/timing on this motherboard?

Are you runing 2 - 2GB modules? Or 4? Is there other RAM in the system?

Your link didn't work - is this the one?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Are you sure you got this RAM and not a different RipJaws model? Chk the label
F3-12800CL7D-4GBRH

Are you "Frank" from the NewEgg comments or is someone else with the same board having identical problems?

(I keep editing this!)

The MB specs mention 1666 speed only with AM3 processors, which yours is. But are you running the F5 or greater BIOS rev? F5 is needed for the 955 cpu.



No I'm not Frank from newegg, though i did buy it from there, haven't reviewed yet. Yes, that link is to the ram I have. I am running the F6 BIOS. 2 - 2GB modules. No other RAM in the system. I am running the ram with a clock speed of 1600.

I'm going to hold off on upping the voltage until I know more. I am really concerned about hurting something because of messing with stuff I am not sure about.
a b V Motherboard
October 13, 2009 5:20:19 AM

Fair enough. I also participate in the G.Skill forum. You might post there and see what they have in the way of suggestions. I'll chk there and help follow-up if you let me know here you've posted.
http://www.gskill.us/forum/index.php
October 13, 2009 5:22:50 AM

I think SPD is being read wrong by my mobo. In MIT SPD lists the timings as 9-9-9-24.

I sorta have windows xp installed. My hard drive from my old busted laptop. I can't do a fresh install yet because I haven't bought a new optic drive yet. I'll use a thumb drive and put that memory program on it. If I understand correctly, I can use that memory program to read the correct SPD information, write it down, and manually set up the RAM in MIT. Is that the right idea?
a b V Motherboard
October 13, 2009 7:50:40 AM

I think it's odd that the MIT reads the spd as 9-9-9-24 -

did you verify that the modules you have are all labeled as F3-12800CL7D-4GBRH
Do they show the timing numbers and speed on the label?
a b V Motherboard
October 13, 2009 8:13:01 AM

Here's the info that Memset gives me. Remember, although Memset allows you to change the settings of your RAM, I'm only using it and recommending it to view the details of your SPD.

The SPD consists of two types of info on faster RAM. The first is the JEDEC numbers - the officially recognized standard timings at certain speeds. Apparently JEDEC doesn't go above 800/400 MHz in DDR2 so there's another part of the SPD called EPP, which gives info on the faster "Enhanced" profiles. These are two columns of info.
For DDR3, I believe the equivalent to the SPP is the XMP. It also has two profiles of info showing faster speeds and timings. I believe the normal JEDEC info stops at 1066 on DDR3 and any faster speeds are listed in the XMP. (Bilbat knows much more about this)

Normally when people talk about the SPD, they're talking about ALL the info, not just the JEDEC info.

Here's what the Memset program reveals about my SPD. The info on the left just shows my current settings. If you compare it to the full SPD info on the right, you'll see that I'm using the timings listed under the 266MHz JEDEC #1. However, I'm not using these at 266 but overclocking my RAM to run with those timngs at 800MHz. Note the voltage on last line of SPD - showing if I want 533MHz, I need to set V to 1.9. Also note that all MHz numbers here are multiplied by 2 to get the familar speeds of 800, 1066, 1333 or 1600 - DDR means Doubled.

Click on the pic to see full-size
October 13, 2009 2:41:55 PM

Double checked my ram and it's sticker says 7-7-7-24, 1600, 1.65v. I tried using Memtest and Memtest 2, both give me an error saying "NOT FOR THIS CPU." Guess it doesn't like my 955.

Could someone give me the XMP info?
a b V Motherboard
October 13, 2009 3:06:22 PM

03, I'm asking another user with 1600 on 790FXT problems to come to this thread. His problems are very similar to yours, except his computer is fully functional and not passing memtest. But again, not running at 1600

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/264412-30-really-exac...
a c 177 V Motherboard
October 13, 2009 3:06:36 PM

Try this:
http://www.memtest.org/download/4.00/memtest86+-4.00.is...
Unfortuntely, no memory manufacterer that I am aware of documents their XMP setings anywhere! This is a major PITA, and I frankly do not know how they've gotten away with it thus far - and with the advent of the i7 platform, these settings become increasingly important; the only way I know of is the tool I posted; there is another, more complete tool here:
http://www.techpowerup.com/spdtool/SPDTool_063.zip
but I am hesitant to have people fiddle with it if they're not extensively experienced, as it's used to write SPDs if you have 'qualified' a particular bunch of DIMMs for a particular MOBO, and want to alter the SPD to automatically 'get' the timings you feel are best for your application - but - you don't want to 'accidentally' modify your SPD - could be fatal (to the further use of the memory - not you :pt1cable:  )!!
a b V Motherboard
October 13, 2009 3:09:38 PM

Both of you are running the 955 CPU, as is the user on Newegg's site. I can't help wondering if the BIOS is part of the problems here. Revision F5 should cover this CPU, but there is also an F7 and F6. I had another user of this board, I think, whose board came with revision F3 and was having CPU speed problems. He went to F6 and no problems. Both of you SHOULD be fine with F5, but I want to know which one you have now.
October 13, 2009 3:10:15 PM

I tried joining tbe g skill forum to talk about this problem there but, they still haven't activated my account.

I'll try that memtest and see what I can get from it.
a b V Motherboard
October 13, 2009 3:13:33 PM

bilbat, I'm increasingly frustrated by the lack of XMP and EPP info. I don't understand why this info isn't immediately available to anyone interested. Even I don't really know if my RAM should be set at 127ns or 75ns. No program I know of gives that info, yet my BIOS has a place for it and I know it's in the SPD.
a b V Motherboard
October 13, 2009 3:15:46 PM

03, if you decide to update your BIOS, be sure to use the ability to do so within the BIOS - not a Windows program. If you don't have a floppy, you can use a thumb drive to hold the new file.
October 13, 2009 3:26:09 PM

Someone said updating from f6 to f7 didn't fix the ram problem. My mobo manual says not to upgrade unless to fix a problem. The upgrade doesn't fix my problem so not planning on doing it.

I can't use memtest86 yet because I'm still waiting on my optic drive. Looked at the info on SPDtool. Had three EPP Profiles on it. None of them had defined CAS or voltage. I don't know if I am looking at the right place. I used read. Yeah it would be nice to just know what the settings are supposed to be. TELL US WHAT YOU KNOW G SKILL!!!
a b V Motherboard
October 13, 2009 3:34:43 PM

03, sounds good to me. If you have F6, I can't see it being an issue.

I was just surprised when I found another 790 board recently, shipped with a 955 and running F3.

I've posted a request in the G.Skill forums for ALL spd data on their modules. I'll also post requesting specific full data for your module now.

There is a post there involving a 790FXT that bears reading, even tho its user had slower 1600 @9 RAM.
http://www.gskill.us/forum/showthread.php?t=865

I've adding these posts at G.Skill forum
Specific to this problem
http://www.gskill.us/forum/showthread.php?t=2079

Regarding SPD info in general
http://www.gskill.us/forum/showthread.php?t=2077
http://www.gskill.us/forum/showthread.php?t=2078
October 13, 2009 3:48:23 PM

Thanks for the help guys. I really appreciate it. Always nice to meet some good people!
a c 177 V Motherboard
October 13, 2009 4:22:04 PM

Quote:
bilbat, I'm increasingly frustrated by the lack of XMP and SPP info. I don't understand why this info isn't immediately available to anyone interested.

I think I may know the reasoning behind this, but I don't like it, or agree with it... I'm pretty sure they simply don't want another seven questions (times however many thousands of users) added to their support load. You've been answering enough questions here to know that, for probably three quarters of the issues, the plain and simple answer is: RTFM! They just don't want users 'dabbling' in these additional settings, assuming that most really don't know what they are for, and aren't willing to learn. A lot of what I try to do here is to (hopefully) 'illuminate' many of the more technical issues in a modern system in terms that can be understood... My belief concerning documentation is that there can never be too much! (I am kind of 'taking care' of fairly elderly parents here - and I do most of the baking - my mom and I laugh about "no such thing as 'too sweet' or 'too much chocolate' ";) ) This is the major reason that I stick with Intel - I've posted this before:

I know a lot of arcane BS about Intel processors - cause they're the only ones who document everything! If you wanna know how many Lahore pigeons crap on the roof of the Santa Clara fab each year, not only can you find it in a PDF somewhere (but where - that's the skill!) on their web site, but there's probably a three year plan documented to change their feeding habits, so they crap a lighter color, causing the roof to reflect more sunlight, and cut down on the air-conditioning costs... Every time I try to find out something about an AMD BIOS for someone, I see this business about "update AGESA three point five point three point nine point more digits than pi", and I've been randomly trying for months just to find out what 'AGESA' is - bah - no luck! (I hate acronymns anyway - the only one that ever sticks in my head is back from the days when they finally got completely out of hand with 'PCMCIA' - people can't memorize computer industry acronymns!) And you don't wanna even get me started about nVidia! As far as I can figure, nVidia is actually a front company for the CIA/NSA - if you go looking there for documentation, they'll have you investigated to find out why the hell you're looking for their documents!

I think that if they posted this information, along with a cogent, understandable explanation of what they exist for - it would, ultimately, subtract from their support load - but I can't prove it, and I don't know how to get hold of anyone at the manufacturing/marketing level who could effect such a policy... And, as I've mentioned, this info is increasingly important to the new platforms that incorporate the memory controller into the processor, giving infinitely more 'flexibility' to memory configuration; with memory controller hubs, the major function of fast RAM was simply to allow you to raise your system clock past 400 MHz without 'overrunning' your 800 RAM at the lowest 2.0 (1:1 bus ratio) multiplier; now, you can 'diddle' throughput directly - which means you need to know all of the RAM timings, and, at various speeds...
a b V Motherboard
October 13, 2009 4:44:26 PM

bilbat, is the tRFC number measured in ns? Rather than clock ticks?

My G board has presets for this, including 75ns, 105ns, 127.5ns and 154ns. It sets to 127 I think whenever you change to Manual. It appears from my spd - see above - that the tRFC for my various speeds range from a high of 68 @ 533 to a low of 34 @ 266.

So it seems that regardless of my speed setting, I'm safe to try 75ns for this? (Maybe safe to try, but doesn't like it - cleared all my timing settings on reboot. Does like 105ns so far, but not tested it.)

(LOL, that rant seems familar to me! I still like it tho.)

G.Skill's forum does have some guides to setting the BIOS in various motherboard/RAM combos. But it's hard to find because if you start at the forum and click on DDR3, it never shows. Unless you move backwards from that forum up one level, you never see it.
http://www.gskill.us/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=35
And this is great stuff, represents a lot of work by the team there. But most of it could be taken care of by the much simpler method of posting all the SPD info!
a c 177 V Motherboard
October 13, 2009 9:19:38 PM

Thanks ever so much for the pointer to G.Skill info - invaluable! It's so good, I had to create an icon for it (their site favicon.ico looks suspiciously like the one from TweakTown...):
http://www.mediafire.com/?g4xon0qtw2y
The best two memory spots I know of are TweakTown's:
http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/memory-timings-explaine...
and this:
http://www.tweakers.fr/timings.html#tRFC

I'll see about that BIOS adjustment, but I've forgotten what board you have, and figured it'd be easier to just ask than to search...
a b V Motherboard
October 14, 2009 1:26:21 AM

You must have sigs turned off, didn't occur to me. Mine is:

Gigabyte MA785GM-US2H, AMD Phenom II x2 550 BE (4 cores@3.6GHz), G.Skill 2x2GB DDR2 1066 (820@CL4), Scythe Katana3, Hec 585W, Samsung 2232BW+ 22", WD Caviar Black 1TB SATA HD, Sea 500GB USB HD, 12 IDE HDs w/Masscool IDE to SATA Convertors, Ugly Old Case

Here's my problem with tRFC - it's not listed in clock ticks in my Gigabyte board or apparently several others. It's listed in nanoseconds. Here's my full DRAM Timings page and the choices for tRFC

a b V Motherboard
October 14, 2009 2:48:35 AM

And here's G.Skills answer to my specific request to get the full SPD info for this RAM

Quote:
We do not list FULL SPD values because they can differ from motherboard and memory. These parts are mass produced therefore they may not all be exactly the same. With the minimum settings that we do state, the motherboard should be able to automatically pick up the rest.

Advanced Timings are exactly that because they are there for fine tuners or overclockers that are able to identify the perfect values for their specific hardware.


Here's my answer:
Quote:
Since when does the SPD data vary with a motherboard? The chip gets re-written somehow? That isn't true and doesn't make any sense. If I put the same module in 10 different motherboards and run Memset on them - I'll get the exact same results for the saved data implanted on the RAM module.

That doesn't mean that all motherboards will work the same or as well with the SPD data - but that data's wired into the SPD byte on the module, eh?

So basically you're saying that it's G.Skill's policy to change the SPD, without changing the basic numbers or the model number, whenever the quality control varies?

If a user sends the S/N for a particular module, can you give them the SPD for it?
October 14, 2009 1:19:19 PM

So that looks to me like I got slower ram then what I paid for.
a b V Motherboard
October 14, 2009 2:43:13 PM

That's not the case at all. It just means that the answer from G.Skill wasn't very helpful.

It is true that some motherboards and RAM combos work together better than others - especially for overclocking. In fact, each individual module may have better or worse characteristics than others that come off the manufacturing line. But the SPD is the minimum standard for how fast a module will run - faster speed or lower latency is basically a bonus.

That's why I was frustrated with the answer from G.Skill. Because they A) didn't give the info I wanted! B) Part of their answer was incorrect. Doesn't mean the product isn't good or of high-quality. I'm upset about the quality of the answer I got, not the quality of the product.

I also went back and mellowed my reply a bit - no need to imply that there's anything wrong with the quality of their RAM - I still think it's about the best out there.

The idea of getting the best possible timings for a given speed still applies. And 8-7-7-24 at 1600 is VERY impressive latency for such a fast speed. I would try increasing the voltage to 1.7V myself. For all we know, your board is putting out a little less V than specified at any range or has other characteristics which keep the RAM from performing up to specs.

And frankly, any variation this small isn't going to affect the throughput of your system even 1%. Compared to even a slight change in CPU speed, settings in RAM speed or latency count for little in processing speed. Once you have your system up and running, you may find that the abilities of this RAM to perform at 1333 make that setting advantageous - and those abilities may far exceed those of other 1666 @ 7 modules from another maker.

Each component in a system adds up to a whole. And even when you build 3 systems from identical parts, bought and manufactured on the same day, you'll find one system that runs the benchmarks just a little faster. One system will have slight variations that make it the best.
===========================

Once again, if the MIT is reading the SPD as 9-9-9-24, this is a problem. If instead, it's setting the AUTO settings to 9-9-9-24 then it's not a problem. Until you can run memset or CPUz to actually read the SPD data, I wouldn't worry about the RAM.

I'm also concerned about your inability to run some programs that should run. I would still favor a BIOS update to address these problems. But all these things need to be looked at AFTER you actually install Windows properly and cleanly.

Windows needs to be installed so that proper Diagnostics can be run. If after a clean Windows installed, the system still won't run basic programs like Memset, then steps might be taken such as updating the BIOS. If that doesn't fix the problem, I'd favor returning the motherboard for replacement.
a c 177 V Motherboard
October 14, 2009 3:06:30 PM

Quote:
Since when does the SPD data vary with a motherboard? The chip gets re-written somehow? That isn't true and doesn't make any sense. If I put the same module in 10 different motherboards and run Memset on them - I'll get the exact same results for the saved data implanted on the RAM module.

That doesn't mean that all motherboards will work the same or as well with the SPD data - but that data's wired into the SPD byte on the module, eh?

Here here! Well said - and another manufacturer whose basic attitude is 'just because you spent your money and bought our product doesn't mean we owe you anything, like good support." Sounds like nVidia - better watch what you say, because the NSA is probably monitoring your comms :kaola: 

Post me a pointer to that discussion - I'll chime in, and add an argument...
Quote:
So basically you're saying that it's G.Skill's policy to change the SPD, without changing the basic numbers or the model number, whenever the quality control varies?

I've actually seen this happen - and, unfortunately, I can not remember which manufacturer it was... That's really how I discovered SPD_Tool, for 'rolling your own' - when either the P35/45, or P43 northbridges were released, somebody's SPD data did not work - and their 'service policy' was to have you download the tool, and a new SPD, and flash the thing yourself... And hey - that's not all that much of a bad thing - the world changes, you adjust to it, and move on, day by day. But to deny the information - that is a bad thing! They deal with so many stupid support problems from so many dummies, that they forget that there are some really astute people out there (just look at the linux world, for example) who can lead the way, and help the rest - if only they can get the relevant information themselves!
Quote:
You must have sigs turned off, didn't occur to me

No - I'm an idiot - and a fairly automated one! To quote Giulio Giorelli (Philosophy of Science at the University of Milan), commenting on a Daniel Dennet book on cognitive philosophy: "Si, abbiamo un anima. Ma e fatta di tanti piccoli robot." Yes, we have a soul. But it's made of lots of tiny robots. I just automatically filter all that stuff out, as my brain is pretty much in a constant state of overload, either from trying to figure out the 'root cause' of the problems, or, from marveling at the cognitive deficits involved! I've actually gotten to the point of avoiding the occasional post, as I've gotten 'wound up' in cognitive deficits before - and it hasn't done me any good...

As for your timing questions:

First, I've never seen that before, or anything even like that! I already had the manual (and I download them [with the exception of the X58/P55 stuff, which I got 'in a chunk', as I knew there'd be problems there!] on a 'case by case' basis), which means I had already answered a question about that MOBO, but I know I never saw that timing section - I'd remember it, as it's so unusual...

Second, it poses a new problem - and, frankly, it's something I should know (or at least, find out)... You know that the DDR (double data rate) tranfers data on both the rising and falling edges of the clock; I often work from 'cycle count' timings, to nanoSeconds, and back - but I've never had to work from the actual nanoSecond timings to counts, directly - the only thing that matters, when converting from, say, 2000 to 1333, is the relative lengths of the cycles. (so the calculations are alway in the form of: { counts * [ 1 / 2000 ] / [ 1 / 1333 ] } ) Thus, what I don't know, is whether, when the BIOS reads CAS4, does that mean four cycles, or four half-cycles (i.e., four data transfers)? But it's a damned good question, and one I'll certainly enjoy digging into!
Quote:
So it seems that regardless of my speed setting, I'm safe to try 75ns for this? (Maybe safe to try, but doesn't like it - cleared all my timing settings on reboot. Does like 105ns so far, but not tested it.)

One thing I'd ask: I know you've seen several of my 'OC' writeups - are you using the <F11><F12> save to/load from CMOS function when you're experimenting? If not - I'd highly recommend it - it saves a ton of time when the board 'burps up' one of your settings, and resets everything to 'stock' (or, even worse, garbles the settings completely, which my BIOS does regularly...)
a b V Motherboard
October 14, 2009 3:18:56 PM

LOL, I've got several CMOS saved versions in there, but I rarely remember to make a new one right before fiddling. And then you have to figure out which one to load of the older ones! Of course, would help if I actually knew ahead of time when I was gonna wipe the settings! LOL!!! (gonna save the settings next boot)

I mellowed out my reply regarding their post a bit, no use burning bridges. But I agree that it makes sense to publish the SPDs - even with the caveat that it might be changed slightly in your module. Surely this is easier than those guides matching the data to particular motherboards.

We've now got two users of MA790FXT's who say they can't use Memset and get the same "unsupported CPU" type of message. Seems odd. Both using a Phenom II x4 955 with what appears to be the proper BIOS - but not the newest BIOS.

Hey, have you got an index to your OC and other writings? Please do post the links to any you think I'd be interested in. Just no more of the JEDEC standards, that thing gave me an awful headache.

G.Skills forum thread:
http://www.gskill.us/forum/showthread.php?t=2079
a c 177 V Motherboard
October 14, 2009 5:13:07 PM

Quote:
We've now got two users of MA790FXT's who say they can't use Memset and get the same "unsupported CPU" type of message. Seems odd. Both using a Phenom II x4 955 with what appears to be the proper BIOS - but not the newest BIOS.

Memset's 'base' is here:
http://www.tweakers.fr/memset.html
and the place to post problems/bug reports is here:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=92...
I noticed a beta here:
http://www.tweakers.fr/beta.html
but I think it's the same pointer I've been regularly posting...
Might wanna recommend trying the CPU_Tweaker here:
http://www.tweakers.fr/download/CPU-Tweaker13b3.zip
which seems to be aimed especially at CPUs w/on-die memory controllers - might work for those 955s...

Quote:
LOL, I've got several CMOS saved versions in there, but I rarely remember to make a new one right before fiddling.

Yeah - it's kind of like 'restore points': "well, if I'd known it was gonna do this, I'd have set a restore point!" :fou: 

Quote:
And then you have to figure out which one to load of the older ones! Of course, would help if I actually knew ahead of time when I was gonna wipe the settings! LOL!!! (gonna save the settings next boot)


That's exactly the point I try to make here:
Quote:
I always urge people to start right away by taking the time to give the 'slots' names that mean something: in two hours, "Try2" and "Try3" will not be very helpful, but "450@+10MCH" and "450@+15MCH" will! Another use is for 'green' settings; overclocks, as a rule, do not 'play well' with green features, such as 'down-clocking' and 'down-volting'; with the storage slots, you can set up one profile, say "Green", with all the settings at 'stock' values, and all the 'green' features enabled; another, say "Balls2Wall" with a full overclock, and all the 'green' stuff turned off...


I learned (fortunately, early on, during the development of 'structured programming' - mostly from Niklaus Wirth) that if I expend time in carefully choosing my variable names, my code becomes, for the main part, self-documenting. I've spent half of my life doing, mostly, industrial systems (running machines or process factories), where a huge nomber of 'real world' sensors are hooked up, and manipulated by a logic controller; and then the logic controller 'talks' to a windows program, running on a touch-screen, that acts as a sort of 'video game' interface for the operator. These points, or, sometimes, registers, exist in the CAD drawings for the electrical system, in the logic controller program, in the interface program, and, sometimes, in 'glue' logic I might write in VB or C#, to 'diddle' controller data... The first thing I learned was that it was imperative that the names of all these data points be consistent, across the whole shebang, to prevent confusion; the second was that, careful naming was the key to either: not having to spend hours and hours documenting my programming, or, to spending three days in a hotel room five years down the road when I have to service the damned thing, scratching my head and saying "WITF was I doing here?!?" The consistency is one of the reasons I have the four monitor system you've seen - means I can see (and cut and paste, to and from) all of 'em at once. If I'm doing a twenty-four speed Lucas spindle transmission for a boring bar, it's a lot more useful for me to name a limit switch input point "transmission backshaft front gear cluster is forward", than "shift fork A advanced" - in that case, I might need to reference the mechanical drawings and the hydraulic schematics, just to see what is intended... And now, with the advent of object programming, careful naming conventions are just as important as the naming itself - I wanna see at a glance that "that's an object, that's a method, that's a property..." It's a good habit to get into, right down to making yourself up a set of file and directory naming conventions...

Quote:
Hey, have you got an index to your OC and other writings?

Ummm - I keep an index to posts, but mostly not mine - I'll go through it, see if they're vaguely identifiable (there's another place where I need a 'convention :ange:  ) and send 'em to you. Mostly, when I write up something that will be referenced over and over (as people have, probably three quarters of the time, the same problems over and over...) I save it as a text file in a 'forum posts' directory so I can reference 'em again, at will... After, probably, my third overclock post, I started documenting them at the beginning like this:
Quote:
GA-EP45-UD3P
Intel Q9550 1333FSB x8.5mult 2.83GHz .85-1.3625V
G.Skill F2-8500CL5D 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 memory: 5-5-5-15-2t nominal 2.1v

and saving them with file names indicating the MOBO and CPU, as I've wound up reposting some of them a large number of times...




a b V Motherboard
October 15, 2009 2:26:23 AM

I've spent years trying to get companies to implement reasonable file-naming conventions. Just getting some folks to understand that they need to use a -01 -02 revision system is a back-breaker. Moving past the 8+3 standard has been a big help there! My rule is that for any file, call it something like FinSummary01, FinSummary02.. and save FinSummary for the FINAL version, allowing you to delete the revisions as a final step. At worst you end up with FinSummary06 or such as the final and never have to puzzle over whether the one w/o the suffix is the first version. Also there's the year formats, Y2K taught us not to use FinanceSummary97 but instead FinanceSummary1997 but some missed that era and problem. And FinSum-200909 is so much better than FinSum-092009 because it sorts out right. And this is one system of rules I actually do use myself.
a b V Motherboard
October 15, 2009 2:31:51 AM

Back to the subject at hand - and of interest to the OP.
G.Skill's latest answer:
Quote:
They may pick up at 9, which is why we require people to manually set them to their rated specifications. SPD values are the loosest values available for the memory to operate at. That is why there are XMP Profiles to automatically make those adjustments.

DDR3 Timings Items - Manual
8T
7T
7T
24T
2T
6T
110ns
110ns
110ns
110ns
10T
3T
33T

The issue they are having is because AMD platforms can't run CL7 on all motherboards. Keep checking the BIOS updates as many companies are doing their best to update ASAP. Depending on CPU (especially 955), SB/HT Voltage will need to be at 1.40V. Other than that, with the correct settings DDR3-1600, CPU set correctly, it should work properly.

You may need to try 8-8-8-24, unfortunately it is a trial and error case since it is dependent on the motherboard and processor. I can prove this because I can easily pop these in to a Maximus III P55 motherboard with the rated specifications and fire it right up. It's difficult being the memory company, we get blamed for things not in our control. =P
Thank you
GSKILL SUPPORT
http://www.gskill.us/forum/showthread.php?t=1093

============= my reply ==================

I will pass on these numbers.

The confusion, if any, regarding this RAM and the SPD comes from the fact that they are marketed as being 7-7-7-24 modules, so reasonable people would expect that to be the Automatic setting once you get the voltage and speed set properly. They don't seem to have this value available however.

They do seem to operate fine for most folks as 8-7-7-24 and folks seem to find this figure on their own, so it must be in the SPD. But both internally at G.Skill and at sales sites, they are advertised as being, clear and simply, CL=7 RAM with 7-7-7-24 timings.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231279

For a user who wishes to achieve the 7-7-7-24, what are your further suggestions? SB/HT voltage at 1.40. What about the DRAM voltage - increase to 1.7 or more?


So I think the answer is that even tho these modules are marketed at 7-7-7-24 they are actually 8-7-7-24 modules. And that's the best that many users can expect from them. The full timing numbers are above and should be used.

I'm not sure that some Gigabyte boards can't use CL=7 in their manual settings. But, in my own BIOS, there are limits to the allowed timing settings, so it's not impossible. We need the user here and the other thread to answer whether they're "allowed" to set the CAS Latency to 7 or not. I would assume they can or they wouldn't say it doesn't work/boot properly at that setting.
a b V Motherboard
October 15, 2009 5:28:27 PM

And the next answer is:
Quote:
No one should expect AUTO settings to work unless they are operating memory that is the JEDEC maximum standard or lower for their motherboard. If a motherboard maximum default is DDR3-1333, you can't expect it to pick up DDR3-1600+ timings correctly. Hence the reason why most motherboards provide lax timings such as 9-9-9-24. As a result, all memory modules above the maximum standard must be manually configured or an XMP Profile must be used.

The memory is advertised as 7-7-7-24, but it clearly states for P55 platforms only, not AMD AM3. Notice others will state "and AMD AM3" while this one does not. We will be clarifying this further, but by then most motherboard companies hopefully should have updates to operate CL7 on AMD platforms. It is a BIOS issue, not BIOS settings issue.
Thank you
GSKILL SUPPORT

I believe the JEDEC standard is 1066 for DDR3 and 800 for DDR2? And everything above that is XMP or EPP?

But this board and others should read the SPD (JEDEC or XMP) once the RAM speed is manually set, I thought. The 1600 isn't considered Overclocking but I'm not sure if anyone is showing 1600 speed with any of the faster RAM with just the voltage set right. Anyone know?
a b V Motherboard
October 16, 2009 8:14:34 PM

OK, final answer from G.Skill is:
Quote:
1.7 would be okay (like with CPUs, RAM has some wiggle room above whatever it's rated for, normally .1 to .2, some even more.

and

1.65V is more than enough. The new RipJaws don't require overvoltage. The CL7 restriction is is a motherboard BIOS limitation.


So G.Skill feels that the Gigabyte BIOS doesn't allow RAM to run at CL=7. I can't swallow this and would love to get info from a user who IS running 1600 @ 7. And clearly slower RAM can run at 7 anyway.

And I still haven't gotten any confirmation that the SPD for this RAM shows 7's for the 1600/800 column.


a c 177 V Motherboard
October 16, 2009 8:29:07 PM

Quote:
I believe the JEDEC standard is 1066 for DDR3 and 800 for DDR2? And everything above that is XMP or EPP?

That is correct, but I believe that, functionally, there will be a modification (haven't seen any official JEDEC doc on it yet, though... And, BTW - they make my eyes water too :(  , but often, they're the only reliable source for detailed info!). Memory intended for the 1156/P55 platforms should have its 'basic' SPD set at 1333, as this is the Intel 'supported' speed for these i5/i7s...

I don't know what the deal is with AMD boards (I can try to find out...), but if they don't work with EPP/XMP profiles, I can't imagine why... It is different to set parameters for a chip that has an on-die memory controller, but you'd think it is, after all, just another BIOS function. I do know that some of the BIOS for some of the Intel chipsets don't do this properly, either - mostly 8xx and 9xx pieces. This is one of the main differences between executing "Set Optimized Defaults" and "Set Fail-Safe Defaults"; optimized usually will examine the SPD, and if it has an EPP/XMP, will try to set it up; fail-safe just sets the basic JEDEC-spec SPD values...







October 28, 2009 9:37:08 PM

I've been reading this thread, and a related one (http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/264412-30-really-exac...), with much interest, as I'm having similar struggles with my AMD/Gigabyte/G.Skill homebuild. Thanks much to all of you for the valuable pointers!

Like the OP (and the OP of the 2nd thread), I cannot get memset to run on my computer: it gives the "Unsupported CPU" message. CPU-Z runs fine, but only gives 8 out of 16 figures that I need to fully configure the RAM timings and voltage.

[Edit:]
So here's another tool I found--you old timers have probably heard about it--which does show the full SPD values for Phenom II with DDR3: "CPU Tweaker 1.2", which can be downloaded here: http://www.tweakers.fr/cputweaker.html .

I only noticed two weird things in the CPU Tweaker output:
(a) it shows my current CAS# as 7, when it shows in BIOS as 9.
(b) It only lists one of the four "tRFC" values. There's one entry for each memory slot; I have two cards, and BIOS shows the same value for each (110 ns). CPU Tweaker only lists the value for slot #1. Also there are no tRFC values in the SPD section...oh well, nothing's perfect!

Besides these odd glitches, everything reads as expected.

I don't have image hosting set up, so here's the SPD values in plain text from CPU tweaker for DDR3-1333 with 7-7-7-18 timings, which is the "XMP1" column:

Clock = 666 MHz
CL (CAS#) = 7
tRCD = 7
tRP = 7
tRAS = 18
CR = 2T
tRC = 30 (Row Cycle Time in Gigabyte BIOS)
tRFC = 60 ( Doesn't show in BIOS...seems like it ought to!)
tRRD = 4 (RAS to RAS Delay in BIOS)
tWR = 10 (Write Recovery Time)
tWTR = 5
tRTP = 5 (Precharge Time)
tREF = 7.9 micsec (??)
voltage = 1.60

So hopefully this info will be useful to others with this same RAM and motherboard! I'll post again once I've tried out the new timings.

My system:
Phenom II X3-710, Gigabyte GA-MA770T-UD3P, G.Skill DDR3-1333 2x2GB (F3-10666CL7D-4GBPI),
2x640 GB WD "Green" edition (7200 rpm) in "fake-RAID" via Gigabyte driver [I know, fake RAID is cheesy, but it seems to be working suprisingly well!], Asus/nVidia GTS 250 512 MB, Antec Earthwatts EA650 PSU.
!