Need help with first gaming build

Nexus21 · May 2, 2009

I've put together a list of parts for a computer that I will be putting together soon. This computer will be used primarily for gaming and media editing. Looking at this list there are three things I'm concerned about:

1. How well will these parts work together?
2. Is there anything I can do to cut cost without giving up significant performance?
3. What video card should I buy?

The parts I have chosen are these:

CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550
GPU (Choice 1): SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4870 1GB
GPU (Choice 2): EVGA nVidia GeForce GTX 260 Core 216
PSU: PC Power & Cooling 750W
RAM: G.SKILL PI Black 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 800
HDD: Western Digital Caviar Black 640GB
DVD: SAMSUNG DVD/CD Drive
CASE: NZXT TEMPEST
MOBO: GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45
AUDIO: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer 7.1
MONITOR (Choice 1): SAMSUNG ToC T220HD Rose Black 22" 5ms HDMI Widescreen
MONITOR (Choice 2): LG L227WTG-PF Black 22" 2ms Widescreen

None of these parts are set in stone and even the things I put as choices can be changed.

I really do need some comprehensive opinions. Is there anything you would replace because of quality? Anything you would replace because of price? What monitor would you recommend? What video card would you suggest? Given what I want to use it for, will this work well? Is there any room for improvement?

My price range is anywhere between $1000 to $1300-ish not including S&H. For the sake of this thread just assume that the OS is capable of running the hardware.

Please help me out. Thanks

Helloworld_98 · May 2, 2009

the 4870 since you can CF it later and otherwise all those watts will go to waste.

do you need that sound card? unless you have a 7.1 system then iAPU's will do just as good a job.

also for a monitor wouldn't it make more sense to get a 24" or 1920x1200 screen?

Nexus21 · May 3, 2009

Helloworld_98 :

I did plan to get a second video card some time down the road, but wouldn't I also be able to do SLI with the GeForce card later if I chose that card?

Yes, I need the sound card.

At the moment I cannot afford a 24" monitor, so I'm making do with a 22" monitor.

Outlander_04 · May 3, 2009

Have you looked at picing for a similar AMD system ?

It should save you enough money that you may be able to afford a 4890 or similar card .
Intel are not price competitive atm

I would also not bother with the sound card . The onboard sound will be very good .

Why_Me · May 3, 2009

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/gigabyte-nvidia-sli-motherboard,7463.html <--- Gigabyte: Enable SLI On X58 Boards

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137 $69.99
COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail

http://www.buy.com/prod/corsair-750w-tx-series-80-plus-certified-power-supply-corsair-tx-cmpsu/q/loc/101/206178325.html $114.99 Shipping: FREE
Corsair TX CMPSU-750TX ATX12V & EPS12V Power Supply

http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-EX58U3R $179.99
GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD3R Core i7/ Intel X58/ DDR3/ CrossFireX/ A&GbE/ ATX Motherboard

http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=I7-920 $265.99 Free Ground Shipping
Intel Core i7 Processor i7-920 2.66GHz 8MB LGA1366 CPU, OEM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185093 $36.99 Free Shipping*
Scythe MUGEN-2 SCMG-2000 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835154003 $4.99
Tuniq TX-2 Cooling Thermal Compound - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127430 $179.99 ($159.99 after $20.00 Mail-In Rebate)
MSI N260GTX-T2D896-OCv4 GeForce GTX 260 896MB 448-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231247 $89.99 Free Shipping*
G.SKILL 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319 $74.99 Free Shipping*
Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive - OEM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136152 $24.99 Free Shipping*
LG Black 22X (CAV) DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 16X DVD+R DL 22X (CAV) DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 22X DVD±R DVD Burner - OEM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236050 $169.99 ($149.99 after $20.00 Mail-In Rebate) Free Shipping*
ASUS VW224U Black 22" 2ms(GTG) Widescreen LCD Monitor w/ HDCP Support 300 cd/m2 1000:1 (ASCR 5000:1) Built in Speakers - Retail

Total: $1,212.89 | $1,172.89 w/rebates

*Edit

*or switch out vid cards in that build to this one down below....

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130475 $249.99 ($229.99 after $20.00 Mail-In Rebate) Free Shipping*
EVGA 896-P3-1170-AR GeForce GTX 275 896MB 448-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

Total: $1,282.89 | $1,242.89 w/rebates

Outlander_04 · May 3, 2009

Why_mes build is an example of how overpriced the intel C2Q's are .

The i7 system is much stronger , an AMD system would be cheaper and just as powerful .

The only thing I'd change on Why_mes build would be the gfx card . There seem to be problems with ci7 cpu's and nVidia cards .Last week nVidia was recommending people DONT buy i7 . A 4870 1 gig would be a better choice if thats the case

Why_Me · May 3, 2009

Outlander_04 :

No Nvidea did not recommend people to not buy i7, and no there is no such problems in regards to compatability with Nvidea (and SLI) and i7's.
Nvidea only stated in that article that gpu > cpu. Nothing more, and nothing less. Nvidea and i7's work great together.

And no, AMD systems are not as powerful as the i7. Look at the all around benchmarks...it's not even close.

nerrawg · May 3, 2009

Outlander_04 :

What was outlander on about!? :heink:

~ some pretty strange stuff there: "i7 is much stronger ... AMD system .... just as powerful." Logic anybody?

Outlander_04 · May 3, 2009

nerrawg :

Perhaps logic isnt a strong point for either of you

nVidia did recommend people building gaming machines should not spend money on an i7
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-geforce-intel-core-i7,7624.html
and
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2009/04/23/core-i7-waste-of-money-says-nvidia/1

There have been reports of i7 not producing expected frame rates with nVidia gfx chips . This is probably part of the reason that nVidia think you are better off with an e8400 and a better gfx card than you spending the same money on an i7 and gfx card .

And nerrawg i7 is much stronger than the intel quads pretty much everywhere except some game situations , while the AMD quads match intels C2Q's at a better price . It wasnt so hard to figure out . How did you manage to get it so wrong?

nerrawg · May 3, 2009

Hehe, well may be it was the way that you wrote it!? Not to be too picky about the english language, but that second sentence was contradictory with regards to its inherent initial argument, maybe because it wasn't a complete sentence at all. It does make more sense now that you have actually explained it clearly and quoted sources, thanks for doing that. As for the stories about NVidia, I completely understand it, must be scary for them to see everybody on almost every forum recommending i7 X58 for SLI and not their own NVidia motherboard chipsets. If I was in their shoes I would do the same thing to encourage more sales of AMD SLI motherboards and the like. However the message from the community of testers: guru3D, TOMs, Proclocker's, AndanTech and many others has been the same: corei7 shows brilliant SLI scaling and is a much more stable chipset.

Here is one article from Andantech showing some brilliant SLI scaling with almost every Nvidia card out there, all tested on an X58 system:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3517
and Recommendations against NVidia chipsets from TOMs own guru - Proximon, as general advice:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/257075-31-guide-choosing-parts
Anandtech review of 780SLI:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3305&p=14

I admit I am no greater than the information fed to me - but as of yet that information conclusively suggests that the X58 is better.

Also I would like to ask Tom Peterson on a side note: Have you tried overclocking an E7400 or E8500 on a 750 SLI board!? and why the heck does a 9800 GT from a decent manufacturer still cost $120, when a 4770 costs $100 and a 4830 can be had for below $85!!!
NVidia needs to get its act together on those fronts at least, until then I see no good reason not to go for crossfire instead if you are on a budget and want the power of 2.

Why_Me · May 3, 2009

Outlander_04 :

There is more to life than gaming, and correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure the OP stated in his post that he also wanted a build for photo editing along with gaming. Now unless someone can post links to a cpu that beats an i7 all around, I'm not buying into it. For an all around build, i7 is still the King. Benchmarks have proven that.

Outlander_04 · May 3, 2009

nerrawg :

Theres no contradiction , but I concede the sentence covers a lot of ground . I could have made the points individually but it would have been three times as much typing ... and my natural laziness would always stop that happening .

Whether i7 makes sense in a gaming rig seems pretty dependant on budget .

I still think the OP could take the same budget , buy an AMD quad system , a better gfx card and get a better gaming experience . SLI and Crossfire have never been great value since you spend twice as much on the gfx card but dont double your performance .

And since the OP is only going to be playing on a 22 inch monitor he doesnt need either . Just one good strong card . GTX 275 or Radeon 4890 IMO

nerrawg · May 3, 2009

Not quite sure about the single card argument anymore. If it was a year ago then you would be right. Currently the average scaling is very good (averaging 80% for some ATI cards) and the problems with micro-stutter have been fixed. As for the power draw, new tests show that the 4770 draws less power at load in crossfire than a single 4890. At the same time it beats the 4890 in performance when it comes to newer games by almost 20% on average, while it can play older games smoothly in single card configuration. When you take into consideration that it is also cheaper than the 4890, it really becomes a hard deal to argue with, given that you have a motherboard that can run crossfire.

Of course it would be wrong for you just to take my word for it, so here is a link:
http://en.expreview.com/2009/04/28/first-look-at-radeon-hd-4770-crossfire-benchmark.html

As you can see this is a preliminary test, but it looks very promising and I think it really illustrates how budget CF can pay off at 1600 and 1900 resolutions.

Why_Me · May 3, 2009

To the OP...if you don't want to run SLI in the future consider switching out the psu and vid card in my build with these down below....

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341022 $74.99 ($49.99 after $25.00 Mail-In Rebate)
OCZ Fatal1ty OCZ550FTY 550W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Modular Active PFC Power Supply - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130480 $329.99 ($299.99 after $30.00 Mail-In Rebate) Free Shipping*
EVGA 01G-P3-1180-AR GeForce GTX 285 1GB 512-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

That would change the total price on that build to...

Total: $1,322.89 | $1,247 w/rebates

*But I would go with my original build so that you have the option of running two gtx 275's (SLI) in the future.

Outlander_04 · May 3, 2009

nerrawg :

I agree there are some crossfire [ and maybe sli] combos that are cost effective , but its still generally true that if one gfx card can do the job theres no point using two.
The benchmark you linked is interesting , but more for what they dont include .

"Considering HD 4770 only features 512MB memory size, it’s unfair to compare it with HD 4890 under the items such as GTA4 and FarCry2, so we only kept the benchmarks under five items including 3DMark Vantage, and set the imgae quality at the highest level."
[ their spelling mistake , not mine ]
This seems a very odd reason to not include those games when you consider 2 x 4770 have the exact same amount of vram as a single 4890 . Surely that makes it a good test, and not an unfair one at all?

The results might have been a lot different if they had thrown more intensive games at that rig

Nexus21 · May 3, 2009

While I'm looking to shave off a couple of dollars or to replace certain parts of the build I posted with better parts, I'm also not looking for the absolute cheapest item if it means sacrificing quality or buying it from an obscure computer parts website if it means only taking off a couple dollars.

Can someone tell me what is actually wrong with the parts I posted, what you would change and explain why? I noticed the thread kind of digressed into a "who said what" about nVidia for some reason, but I still don't feel like I've gotten anywhere.

I get the disagreement about the audio card, but what else? Again, you're talking to someone who hasn't really kept up with what all of the hardware companies have been doing or what the quality of certain companies' products are. However I don't believe that if something is the cheapest that I should automatically buy it.

Why_Me · May 3, 2009

Nexus21 :

Well it's like this...first of all I haven't seen an obscure pc hardware retailer in this link...low and behold newegg isn't the only place in the world that sales pc hardware. But when you gave us a budget...being the nerds that we are, we made better builds with that money...as is our hobby on here. :pt1cable:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-275,2266.html <---gtx 275 review

Then you can check the cpu charts on this site, or google " i7 920 cpu" and see what you come up with. All parts in these builds are quality, and these builds are set up so that you can upgrade later on...like over clock, SLI, etc... We gave you the best your going to get with that budget.

*not to brag, but that build of mine in this thread is ...well...nothing short of great.

Outlander_04 · May 3, 2009

Nexus21 :

There is nothing "wrong" with the parts you chose , but that doesnt mean they are the best choice , or the most cost effective choice .
And there is the issue you have that intel socket 775 [ like the mb/cpu you chose ] is at the very end of its life cycle . Intel have replaced it with a newer generation of hardware , but they havent really dropped the price of the old stuff they are selling off .

For media encoding , photo and video editing then intels Ci7 is king and why_mes build is pretty good
For gaming it has the potential weakness I mentioned and you can get a better gaming experience for less by buying an AMD based system . You can probably get an AMD quad based system for close to the $1000 figure and not why_mes $1300 .
I think either would be better than your build in one way or the other .

Helloworld_98 · May 3, 2009

it's more about what you want to do e.g. if you want an all around PC but can't shell out for i7 then you can get a Q9650 and a cheap P45 board, but if you're a gamer then you can save some cash and go AMD since 790FX boards are coming down in price now.

Why_Me · May 3, 2009

Helloworld_98 :

Those days are gone..... Price out that Q9650 and a decent P45 board like the Gigabyte for $114. The i7's these days are right in that price range. Gone are the days people had to have a fat bank account to afford a decent i7 build. I put together a quality build on here for well under $1,300 and that build included a monitor. All AMD has left to them these days are people on a very tight budget, and AMD groupies.

i7 920 cpu: $265

X58 Board: $179

Helloworld_98 · May 3, 2009

not over here they aren't, you can still save a good £70 going with a 9650 over an i7.

edit: and thats using ddr3, change it to a ddr2 build and you have a nice £100 saving.

dragoon190 · May 3, 2009

Well, it depends on how you look at it. At where I'm at right now, building a PhII 940 system is less than $20 over the price for a similar system using E8500, and you get a quad core instead of dual core system.

Anyway, back on topic,

for your GPU, I'd say take the cheaper one, since their performance are about the same (or you can check the benchmark for the specific game you're playing and pick the one that performs better).

For the monitor, I'd take the LG. The reason is the 2ms refresh rate, which is supposed to allow your monitor to display beyond the current 60fps (60Hz) limit on most LCDs today.

EDIT: An i7 system here is about $200 more than a PhII system (~2200 SGD for i7 and ~1300 SGD for PhII 940)

Outlander_04 · May 3, 2009

dragoon190 :

and you can reinvest some of that $200 in a better gfx card , and have a better gaming experience .

the 940/ 790/ddr2 / 4890 [ or gtx275] is a much sharper gaming rig than the OP's build , and over all system performance is not so far behind an i7 that you would ever notice

Nexus21 · May 3, 2009

Maybe it's because I'm not as familiar with DDR3 or the Intel i7, but do I really need 6GB of RAM?

I had a question about the case as well. Is there something I should know about the case I posted or is the Cooler Master just cheaper? Is there any particular benefit besides price for getting that case over the one I posted?

Also, is the increase in the price of the processor and RAM worth the performance difference? And will the processor that was posted being OEM create any kind of risk about its quality?

dragoon190 · May 3, 2009

If you're going to get i7, I believe 6GB of RAM is the max you should put in. There's an article here discussing how the RAM size effect performance, and concluded that for normal (non-professional) use there is very little difference once you get past 6GB. Another thing is that unless you're using 64-bit OS, the max RAM that the system can use is about 3GB.

As for the cases, it doesn't matter as long as you have enough room and enough air flow being pushed through. Here's a review on this website on your case.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pc-case-roundup,1951-3.html

The Cooler Master case is usually recommended since it's cheaper and it has good airflow characteristic, which makes it the case of choice when building a low budget PC. Another thing is that I guess people grew tired of all the fleshy LEDs and stuff after a couple of build (just a guess, need to be confirmed by more experienced builder). Either way, it's up to you to decide which one you want.

I believe another saying in this forum is that if you can get a decent case with less, why not save that money and get a better GFX card.

The final decision of the price v.s. performance is really down to you. Some people might think that a 5fps increase in a FPS game is not worth it, some will think it's essential to get those extra 5 fps. nerrawg recently posted a thread on that topic, though (well, the thread is more about the "future proof" myth, but it is related to price vs performance you're asking about).

As for the last question, I don't have an answer, and shall leave it in the hands of the more experienced and capable builders.

Need help with first gaming build

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