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Which set of speakers?

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August 9, 2009 11:35:16 PM

I have narrowed down my selection to two different speaker sets. I will first start off with what I want from my speakers.

I like having monstrous bass, but not always. I like having the option of keeping the bass mild for certain kinds of music and gaming also.

I currently have the white version of the Logitech Z4 series, 2.1 40 watt max setup.

I am going more for a media / gaming approach with the speakers and have narrowed it down to the following.

Logitech G51 - 5.1
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Logitech Z-2300 - 2.1
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Any feedback is much appreciated! Thanks Tom's community!

More about : set speakers

August 10, 2009 3:30:44 PM

Does anyone have either of these speaker sets? Any reviews of them other than Newegg reviews would be helpful, thanks!
August 10, 2009 3:41:12 PM

The Z-2300 is supposivly bass heavy with not enough sattelite support and the G51 could leave you wishing you went with the Z-5500 in the first place.
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August 10, 2009 3:51:05 PM

G51 is good for gaming. Z-5500 is more expensive but are really nice. You should think about saving some money and buy Z-5500.
August 10, 2009 11:33:51 PM

My cousin has the Logitech X-540 and the quality of those speakers and sub are absolute garbage. I know the G51 is a little higher quality but having a good sub is important to me. Would you folks say that the subs from the X-540 and the G51 are comparable?
August 11, 2009 1:34:03 AM

I have a sub from the Creative Inspire 7.1 model from Creative labs and it sucks d*ck. I think it might be only 28 watts but the G51 is only double that but compared to the Z-5500 and it's 180 watts sub which the sub alone can do 116dB+ with just a bass test. Otherwise the G51 is just lower power tweeters, lower power sub whereas the Z-5500 is high to mid in one driver plus 10" sub.

I have a youtube channel up playing some 50 cent with tweeter enabled with a SPL meter: http://www.youtube.com/user/denots2
a b 4 Gaming
August 11, 2009 2:52:31 AM

The problem with the single driver for both mids and highs is that it is mediocre at best at both. It can't truly reach down to the <200Hz region clearly, and it also can't reach up to the >12kHz region clearly. The sub on the Z-5500 is pretty mediocre too. It's quite loud, but it is also muddy, and doesn't extend cleanly below 35 or 40 Hz. Of course, there aren't really any setups in that price range that are truly good (my speakers/sub/amp setup that I have hooked to my computer cost $2700), but I have to say, I have been unimpressed on the whole with the Logitech speakers. The Klipsch and Creative setups, though still not great, seem to do a better job with sound quality than the Logitech ones (though they aren't as powerful).
August 11, 2009 3:01:10 AM

i have the z-5500, they are nice and worth the money
August 11, 2009 4:57:19 AM

5.1, I have used them
August 11, 2009 1:40:32 PM

Man that's a lot to think about. I was seriously considering the G51 just because of the price, but I dunno now. May just stick with the Z-4i =/
August 12, 2009 5:58:54 PM

cjl said:
The problem with the single driver for both mids and highs is that it is mediocre at best at both. It can't truly reach down to the <200Hz region clearly, and it also can't reach up to the >12kHz region clearly. The sub on the Z-5500 is pretty mediocre too. It's quite loud, but it is also muddy, and doesn't extend cleanly below 35 or 40 Hz. Of course, there aren't really any setups in that price range that are truly good (my speakers/sub/amp setup that I have hooked to my computer cost $2700), but I have to say, I have been unimpressed on the whole with the Logitech speakers. The Klipsch and Creative setups, though still not great, seem to do a better job with sound quality than the Logitech ones (though they aren't as powerful).


I don't know I did a 250-200 and the sattelites vibrated off the table. How you assume quality is the weight of the unit in comparision to it's output power. I highly doubt a 3000 system is gonna be moving itself around like that. 12Khz+ doesn't get distorted even at max volume so IDK wtf ur talking about and I have practically the best sound card there is. The sub is the best I've owned out of 5 subs.

As for the muddy bass claim there doesn't seem to be any defition of what muddy bass is readily available even on google or wikipedia so take your claims elsewhere.
a b 4 Gaming
August 12, 2009 8:17:55 PM

bpogdowz said:
I don't know I did a 250-200 and the sattelites vibrated off the table.


So? Again, all that means is you have a decent amount of power. It says nothing about sound quality.

bpogdowz said:

How you assume quality is the weight of the unit in comparision to it's output power. I highly doubt a 3000 system is gonna be moving itself around like that.

I'm not really following what you're saying here. I guarantee you though that my setup could vibrate itself off its stands if I were to remove the rubber mat under each speaker.

bpogdowz said:

12Khz+ doesn't get distorted even at max volume so IDK wtf ur talking about and I have practically the best sound card there is. The sub is the best I've owned out of 5 subs.

The sound card isn't the problem. The 2" drivers attempting to go up to 20kHz is the problem. Admittedly, it does a better job at it than some setups (Bose for example), but it can't match a quality aluminum or silk dome tweeter. As for the subs, what other subs have you owned?

bpogdowz said:

As for the muddy bass claim there doesn't seem to be any defition of what muddy bass is readily available even on google or wikipedia so take your claims elsewhere.

Muddy bass is definitely a real thing. Probably the most extreme example of it that I have seen is in many car audio setups, where power is favored above everything else. Computer speakers tend to have muddy bass as well though. It's difficult to describe, but it is quite glaringly obvious when you hear it (compared to a setup with clean, tight bass). The logitech setup has muddy bass. It's simply a fact.

Once again, I am not saying the Logitech setups are complete garbage or anything. They aren't bad for the money, but it depends on what you are looking for in your sound system. A set of M-audio speakers will blow the Logitech speakers away any day of the week if you want accurate, high quality sound. They can't hope to match the logitech in power or bass extension though. To get power, bass extension, and phenomenal clarity, you need to spend a hell of a lot more than most people here are willing to spend on audio. What I would consider a good all around system with plenty of power starts at around $800 for a 2.1 and $1400 for a surround. Below that, you simply aren't going to get truly good quality and power at the same time.
August 12, 2009 9:49:07 PM

Cjl...What do you expect from a £200 system?! It's the best possible system for this money.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/logitech-z,933-5.ht...
Check this review from Toms.
"The 5500's response is remarkably linear, even if the third-octave weighting does help. You should ignore the hiccup at 40 Hz, which is due to resonance in our room."
August 12, 2009 10:13:47 PM

I'm sure concert speakers would blow yours away. What idiot has 2,000 into computer speakers just so they can say it has better quality when it probably doesn't.

I have a Yamaha 10 watt or something, I have the creative inspire sub, I have a 20 watt harmon kardon, I had a 150w altec lansing. Notice these are actual computer speakers and you're still posting in the sound card section.
a b 4 Gaming
August 12, 2009 10:45:50 PM

As I said, they aren't bad. Having heard the 5500 though, it definitely doesn't have the clairity of the Klipsch Promedia 2.1 (which I had for a while). The Z-5500 has more power, but I preferred the sound of the Klipsch. As for the "Just so they can say it has better quality when it probably doesn't" line (oh, and by the way, I didn't get that audio equipment so I can say my stuff is better. I got it because it does sound better, and I enjoy music and movies), I can guarantee you that my system would absolutely flatten a Z-5500 in every possible way. One example of this is that I have tested mine at 118dB at 12Hz and they weren't at their limit yet. Good luck even getting a measurable 12Hz tone out of a Z5500 sub. My setup has higher SPL capability, lower distortion, a wider frequency range, and an overall more accurate reproduction of the sound than any standard computer setup could hope to achieve. Believe me, a good home theater/audiophile type system hooked to your computer is FAR better than the Z-5500. Oh, and if those subs you listed in the last post are all you've had, it's no wonder you like the Z-5500. The included sub on the 5500 is definitely better than those. However, you should really try something like the SVS PB10-NSD (sort of the low end of high end audio), something from HSU or Velodyne, or something higher end from SVS. I personally have the 16-46 PC Plus (since replaced by the PC12 plus), which is an amazing sub. Once you hear something that is truly a good sub, you'll never go back.

We're getting off topic though. Back to the original question, I would say the logitech setups are the way to go if you want large quantities of bass, but I would go with the Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 if you want sound quality instead. I've heard good things about some of the Creative setups too.
August 13, 2009 2:28:04 AM

It just looks like you're trolling to advertise yourself but in fact, your a nobody. No one knows who you are so thus who cares if you have this and that watt with supposivly better quality which you can't even back up.
a b 4 Gaming
August 13, 2009 2:43:39 AM

If you honestly think that B&W 685s and an SVS 16-46 PC-plus are the equivalent in sound quality of a Z-5500, you're quite deluded. As for trolling? I'm trying to give a useful answer here. You on the other hand seem to be trying to do nothing but extoll the virtues of what is basically a decent cheap speaker setup. It isn't bad, but you should really understand the limitations of your setup.
August 13, 2009 8:10:21 AM

cjl said:
If you honestly think that B&W 685s and an SVS 16-46 PC-plus are the equivalent in sound quality of a Z-5500, you're quite deluded. As for trolling? I'm trying to give a useful answer here. You on the other hand seem to be trying to do nothing but extoll the virtues of what is basically a decent cheap speaker setup. It isn't bad, but you should really understand the limitations of your setup.


CJL...you are right but it's like comparing i7 975 with E5200. The limitation that you are talking about, is related to how much you spend. You can't expect to spend £200 and receive the quality of a £500 system or more.
a b 4 Gaming
August 13, 2009 8:28:31 AM

Agreed. That's why I was recommending the Klipsch Promedia 2.1 for slightly better sound quality, at the expense of some deep bass (it cuts off at ~40hz instead of ~32 for the Z-5500) and power (the Z-5500 is definitely louder). If you can find them, the Klipsch ProMedia surround setup looks nice too, but I believe it is OOP and difficult to find. M-audio is a good place to look for sound quality as well - their computer monitor speakers are wonderful for clarity, but once again cannot hit the deep bass (though they can be surprising). If you have a decent amount to spend ($500 for a 2.0 setup), these speakers are amazing - they are clean, crisp, and have excellent bass due to the adequate power (130W bi-amped) and 8" main drivers. They are rated down to 30Hz, roughly the equivalent of the Z-5500, but due to the quality of the construction, they would be quite a bit clearer. They will definitely blow away the Logitech in every way except maximum sound pressure levels, and they still aren't bad at getting quite loud if you want them to. They are somewhat large though (due to the 8" main drivers), so make sure you have the desk space if you want to use them.

Actually, for sound quality in general, the m-audio line is excellent compared to most other computer speakers on the market. In the price range of the two systems in the OP, the Studiophile AV40 would be an excellent choice (again sacrificing small amounts of bass extension and power for sound quality). They don't extend nearly as deep as the Logitech or higher end M-audio setups mentioned above, but they have a decent amount of bass for their size, and are quite crisp and clear sounding. If I needed a set of smallish computer speakers, they AV40s are probably what I would get.
August 13, 2009 9:08:44 PM

Alright, I understand that your run of the mill speakers are shitty by comparison to the speakers that cost 5x as much, but here is my restated question:

Which of the two sets of speakers I listed above would be best for me (upgrading from Logitech Z-4i)?
August 13, 2009 9:17:17 PM

If you don't have the budget for Z5500, go for G51.
a b 4 Gaming
August 13, 2009 10:21:02 PM

Between the two you listed, the G51 will be a bit better in the treble, and perhaps slightly clearer, but the Z-2300 will have better bass. I still think that in that price range though, you can get better speakers if you're looking for sound quality. The Z-2300 is unbeatable for sheer output power in that price range though.
August 14, 2009 3:26:30 PM

@ cjl

What speakers do you suggest then?
a b 4 Gaming
August 14, 2009 9:17:26 PM

If you want the highest possible sound quality, and you can stretch your budget to $300, the M-audio Studiophile BX5a are what I would go for. Otherwise, I've heard excellent things about the Swan audio products - they seem to be somewhat hard to find though. The M-audio AV40 set is nice too, but don't have the power of some of the other setups. If you don't plan on listening really loud though, it would be a great choice. If you want monstrous bass though (and don't mind sacrificing a bit of clarity), the Z-2300 is the way to go. It all depends on what you are looking for.
August 15, 2009 7:21:06 AM

Hi, yes the z-5500 are excellent, i got mine for 100$ from a fellow off craigslist who was leaving the country. They are huge speakers so make sure you have room, also the z-550 are very good speakers they will not be a real home theater replacement.

here are my two setups.
my pc



my home theater, those speakers are klipsch epic cf-4 dual 12" drivers rated at 300W rms and 1200w max, and weight 110lbs each :) , yeah i live in an apartment and my neighbors hate me. Yeah that Tv is 42 inch, kinda looks small



but yeah z-5500 are very good for a pc speaker, but so are klipsch 2.1

Gl

a b 4 Gaming
August 15, 2009 7:30:45 AM

Nice speakers :D 

I listened to some Klipsch when I was looking at getting a nice setup, but I eventually settled on the B&Ws because I like the dome tweeter better than the horn tweeter. The horn sounded amazing, but you had to be pretty much dead center to get the best sound, while the B&Ws have a wider sweet spot. What kind of sub is that by the way?
August 15, 2009 7:34:32 AM

cjl said:
Nice speakers :D 

I listened to some Klipsch when I was looking at getting a nice setup, but I eventually settled on the B&Ws because I like the dome tweeter better than the horn tweeter. The horn sounded amazing, but you had to be pretty much dead center to get the best sound, while the B&Ws have a wider sweet spot. What kind of sub is that by the way?




hi yes b&w are excellent, i will be buying some paradigms signature 8 when i buy a house next year with a pass labs x350amp. The sub i am using is a klipsch synergy 12 (its their starter sub), its good for 350rms and 650 peak watts, the amp i am using with the speakers is a adcom 5800 rated @ 300w rms/channel. I like b&w and was real close to buying some but the seller sold em already, so i bought these klipsch from him :) . btw i also have a definitive technology supercube 1 subwoofer that i am not using because if i do then all the lights in my apt turn off, i believe its rated @ 1250w Rms with 3 10"drivers, 1 active 2 passive.
August 15, 2009 7:39:46 AM

Also as cjl wrote if you want true speakers that keep the music as clean and original as possible you will have to spend some more and go with audio enthusiast stuff. m-audio is great, There is some real nice quality stuff out there but a simple setup of those might cost you 3-4k!!!. personally i am not a big fan of bass, people think bass is that high boom you hear at high frequencies, (beats), true bass will rumble you from the inside, try a 1500w rms sub with 10hz response, it is so sick :) 
a b 4 Gaming
August 15, 2009 10:04:22 AM

Agreed about the bass - I like bass, but it has to be clean and well balanced for me to really be impressed. True, deep, powerful bass in a good speaker setup is a feeling like nothing else (I have a 675W RMS ported sub that goes down to 12Hz, and it is in a VERY small room).

(Oh, and Paradigm Signature 8? Very nice. My dream setup would be a couple of B&W 800Ds and a couple SVS PB13 ultras, but that's a bit out of my price range for about the next hundred years)
August 15, 2009 10:32:21 AM

hehe i am going to use either audiogon or ebay, you can find some real good prices on audiogon. some one had paradigm s8 listed for 1500 on audiogon, thats almost 3500 off lol, but couldnt buy em because i dont have enough space lol.
August 15, 2009 4:47:42 PM

Thanks for all the long discussion fellas but I think I am going to settle for the Logitech Z-2300 because it does say something that 2.1 pc speakers are THX certified, they have the powerful bass I would like, plus I am reading that they can easily be made to sound better by tweeking with some equalizers a little bit. I value all of the advice and may very well ask for your opinions again in the future. Thank you all!
August 15, 2009 4:53:33 PM

Aoster87 said:
Thanks for all the long discussion fellas but I think I am going to settle for the Logitech Z-2300 because it does say something that 2.1 pc speakers are THX certified, they have the powerful bass I would like, plus I am reading that they can easily be made to sound better by tweeking with some equalizers a little bit. I value all of the advice and may very well ask for your opinions again in the future. Thank you all!




Hi, yes they are THX approved but they will benefit you very little, see the thing is THX sets a requirement that speakers need to reach certain frequencies at certain SPL levels, the logitech z-2300 can surely do that but they are not very powerful. In this senario what will happen is that when you drive those speakers hard they will distort a lot, this is also the case with my logitech z-5500, they begin to distort like crazy as the frequencies drop and the volume rises. But i n the end z-2300 are very good value. Hope you enjoy your brand new setup, also pair them with a nice sound card.
a b 4 Gaming
August 15, 2009 9:23:43 PM

Z2300 not very powerful? I disagree - they are quite powerful, they just aren't quite as clear as some of the other options. I'm sure you'll be happy though. They are a great value, and better than most PC speakers out there :D 
August 15, 2009 11:09:27 PM

I mean it's not like I've never been in a vehicle with audio equipment but I can feel the Logitech Z-5500 satelittes rocking my chest not even counting the sub woofer. Even so the sub is capable of rocking your chest. It just seems you're talking all about power where power equals decibals created in order to physically feel. Just because a setup has high power doesn't make it muddy just because you're fixed fantasy power setup has more power therefore makes it more quality sounding when it actually all depends on the sound driver technology.
August 15, 2009 11:16:34 PM

cjl said:
Z2300 not very powerful? I disagree - they are quite powerful, they just aren't quite as clear as some of the other options. I'm sure you'll be happy though. They are a great value, and better than most PC speakers out there :D 



lol you sure they are powerful? i have z-5500 and i think they crap out real fast at low frequencies. I ran 24hz sine wave test on my z-5500 and i am sure the sub was about to have a heart attack lol.....and you know its easy to make satellites speakers sound real loud because high frequency are much easily produced then lower ones. I have no problem with the z-5500 playing loud, its the depth that actually shows me how powerless they are at low frequencies. ;) 
August 15, 2009 11:18:08 PM

go for the z-2300, they are real decent. i remember a guy selling them on ebay for 69.00 dollars plus 15.00 $ shipping. At best buy they sell em for 150.00 i believe. GL anyways :) 
August 15, 2009 11:21:51 PM

bpogdowz said:
I mean it's not like I've never been in a vehicle with audio equipment but I can feel the Logitech Z-5500 satelittes rocking my chest not even counting the sub woofer.





lol Hi, you sure those satellites are making your chest move? good satellites usually have a frequency response of 120hz-20000khz, and they are only 3 inch drivers....those numbers wont make your chest move :)  but they will make your ears bleed :pt1cable: 
August 15, 2009 11:31:39 PM

haha right, if you're so audiofilish then how come I just felt them off of just a Youtube video?
a b 4 Gaming
August 15, 2009 11:44:16 PM

You felt the subwoofer. Simple as that :D 

a b 4 Gaming
August 15, 2009 11:45:05 PM

freezed1 said:
lol you sure they are powerful? i have z-5500 and i think they crap out real fast at low frequencies. I ran 24hz sine wave test on my z-5500 and i am sure the sub was about to have a heart attack lol.....and you know its easy to make satellites speakers sound real loud because high frequency are much easily produced then lower ones. I have no problem with the z-5500 playing loud, its the depth that actually shows me how powerless they are at low frequencies. ;) 

They aren't that great a 24Hz, true. They've got a LOT of punch at 35Hz and above though. Considering the price, they certainly aren't bad.
a b 4 Gaming
August 15, 2009 11:49:11 PM

bpogdowz said:
I mean it's not like I've never been in a vehicle with audio equipment but I can feel the Logitech Z-5500 satelittes rocking my chest not even counting the sub woofer. Even so the sub is capable of rocking your chest. It just seems you're talking all about power where power equals decibals created in order to physically feel. Just because a setup has high power doesn't make it muddy just because you're fixed fantasy power setup has more power therefore makes it more quality sounding when it actually all depends on the sound driver technology.

Vehicle subs are usually muddier than computer subs - all they care about is the power. I've been in several vehicles with "good" sound systems, and I wanted to get out almost immediately - they tend to have the bass far too loud relative to the rest of the speakers, and there is absolutely not control over the subwoofers - they just make a lot of noise rather than actually making music. Believe me, I know about good sound, and for the price of a Z-5500, you simply can't get both high power and clear sound. Here's about the cheapest really good subwoofer that I know of - it will blow the Z-5500 away in clarity and power:
http://svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

You are right that it all depends on the driver technology (and the enclosure and amp, but the driver is one of the largest factors). A good sub driver is quite expensive though, and the Z-5500 just can't match a really good sub.
August 15, 2009 11:54:56 PM

I hate it how all car systems are all about the subwoofer so you can drive around and blow your ears to such nonsense. I've never encountered a vehicle setup with good quality regulars except a couple of stero 6x9s. I think car subs should blow off.
August 16, 2009 12:04:39 AM

Really who wants a system like that in a vehicle. FYI listening to music in the vehicle is out unless it's for a decibal competition. I can get more quality off of my $50 headset.
August 16, 2009 12:13:32 AM

cjl said:
You felt the subwoofer. Simple as that :D 



yes exactly. Bass or low frequencies are less directional (ideally you should not know where the bass is coming from, it should feel like the bass is equal everywhere you go in the room. but this doesn't happen)compared to high pitched source, maybe that's why you thought it was the satellites.
a b 4 Gaming
August 16, 2009 12:14:00 AM

You think you can get more quality than that B&W setup in a $50 headset? You are sadly mistaken - that B&W would blow any $50 set of headphones away in every way. Unfortunately, the only car that comes with that speaker set costs $80k or more.
August 16, 2009 12:16:10 AM

hehe, yeah i have to say i am surprised how many people just listen to bass the vocals are just gone!!!!!......but yes you are both right.
August 16, 2009 12:57:19 AM

So I didn't buy the Z-2300 yet. I was going to order them on Newegg, but I decided I wanted to go buy them from Best Buy. I liked the idea of having them the same day and not paying for shipping. So I got to Best Buy and saw that not only did they not have the display of the Z-2300 anymore, they didn't have any of them at all in the store. I talked to an employee about it and he said they stopped selling the Z-2300 and put a set of Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 in its place.

Now I have a new issue.

The BB employee told me that the Klipsch blew the Z-2300 out of the water. I listened a little bit, and I couldn't really tell a difference (probably because I didn't have a side-by-side listening comparison). Klipsch (still feel stupid pronouncing that) seems to have a better reputation as a higher-end company, and I would like to have your opinions on those, if you have any.

Thanks again!
a b 4 Gaming
August 16, 2009 1:45:18 AM

The Klipsch don't go quite as deep (~38-40hz instead of ~32-35 for the Z-2300), and don't have quite as much power. They still have plenty of power though, and they are quite a bit clearer at all frequency ranges than the Z-2300 (especially the highs, due to the tweeter in the Klipsch). I have a set of Klipsch ProMedia 2.1, and I love them. They're a great choice.
August 16, 2009 1:50:36 AM

Aoster87 said:
So I didn't buy the Z-2300 yet. I was going to order them on Newegg, but I decided I wanted to go buy them from Best Buy. I liked the idea of having them the same day and not paying for shipping. So I got to Best Buy and saw that not only did they not have the display of the Z-2300 anymore, they didn't have any of them at all in the store. I talked to an employee about it and he said they stopped selling the Z-2300 and put a set of Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 in its place.

Now I have a new issue.

The BB employee told me that the Klipsch blew the Z-2300 out of the water. I listened a little bit, and I couldn't really tell a difference (probably because I didn't have a side-by-side listening comparison). Klipsch (still feel stupid pronouncing that) seems to have a better reputation as a higher-end company, and I would like to have your opinions on those, if you have any.

Thanks again!




lol, didnt you see my massive klipsch speakers above? i used to own a klipsch 2.1 system before getting the z-5500. They are nice speakers but they have 1 major flaw (klipsch 2.1), the fuse in those speakers blows up real fast. also they overheeat a lot and burn up their amps. Also i personally think the z-2300 = klipsch promedia 2.1 in sound quality, they are not better not worse. But to be honest you cant go wrong with any of them. These are the speaker sets i have used in the past and they all sound very good for playing games, and music; they will give you loudness but not much defination

z-560 thx, klipsch promedia 2.1, klipsch promedia 4.1, klipsch ultra 5.1, z-5500....This is now i would rate them but they are all very very very very similar in sound and quality

Klipsch promedia 2.1 will have brighter sound, which is real nice. i dont remember if they use a horn tweeter in the promedia series, i had em 4 yrs ago.

z-5500 > klipsch ultra 5.1 > z-560 > klipsch promedia 4.1 > klipsch 2.1. :pt1cable: 

i am a big klipsch fan lol
!