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Antec Kuhler H2O

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a b K Overclocking
March 4, 2011 9:19:45 PM

Anyone try out this new cooler from Antec? Reviews i read it's actually better then the H50..

http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=Mjc2OA==

More about : antec kuhler h2o

a c 324 K Overclocking
March 4, 2011 9:26:16 PM

Almost everything is better than the H50.

People get so wrapped up in these little LCS systems thinking they are something great. They are mediocre performing coolers that typically cost far more than air coolers that perform as well. The cost/performance curve on these LCS systems is horrid.
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a c 146 K Overclocking
March 4, 2011 9:42:12 PM

The reviews have been great. I have never been a fan of what i called "faux water coolers" but the reviews on this thing have been glowing:

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_conten...

Quote:
Priced to compete with high-end air coolers, the Kühler offers similar performance and a lower noise level. It's the first compact liquid cooler I've tested that can honestly be considered as competition for the likes of the Cooler Master V6 GT, Prolimatech Megahalems, and Thermalright Venomous X.....The performance of the Antec Kühler H20 620 was excellent, exceeding that of every other water cooler I've tested and encroaching on the performance range of the very best air coolers.


http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/antec_kuhler_h2o_620_r...

Quote:
Antec's first foray into the watercooling arena is a very nice product. Given that the Kuhler H2O 620 is another rebranded Asetek unit, I was pleasantly surprised to find that the performance came very close to the Corsair H70 unit with its big radiator and dual fans. The 620 also went about its cooling duties in a very quiet manner, something that can't be said of the other all-in-one liquid cooling solutions I've tested. More flexible tubing and swivel fittings made the 620 easier to install than the competition, and the mounting solution, while a bit fussy to install, seems to be very robust and the cooling performance would indicate that the mounting is more than up to the task.


Priced at around $70 US, the Kuhler H2O 620 is priced in the ballpark of top-performing air coolers and significantly less than the Corsair H70, its main competitor, performancewise. This makes it a very good value for this type of product, and the fit, finish and ease of installation are just more icing on the cake. If you are looking to take the plunge into the watercooling pool, Antec's new Kuhler H2O 620 is worth a good long look.


Here's a user review on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Antec-KUHLER-H2O-620-Cooler/dp/B0...

Quote:
Intel Stock Cooler

Idle: 37c Full Sustained Load: 71

Cooler Master 212+

Idle: 33c Full Sustained Load: 60c

Antec Kuhler 620 H20

Idle: 31c Full Sustained Load: 54c


http://www.3dgameman.com/reviews/1208/antec-k%C3%BChler...

With reference to the cost .... lets see how they stack up with the ones BMR put in same category:

Antec Kuhler 620 - $70 from Antec .. prolly cheaper once hits newegg
Prolimatech Megahalems - $65 + 2 x $11 for fans = $87 from newegg
Cooler Master V6 GT - $60 from newegg
Venemous X - $75 from newegg

While I'm not quite ready to jump on the self contained water cooling bandwagon just yet, there's no denying that this is a game changing product. Dismissing it out of hand w/o consideration of a) it's performance specs are impressive and competitive with the best air coolers, b) it is certainly a lot quieter than any the aforementioned air coolers and c) it renders RAM placement and cooling concerns totally moot.
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March 4, 2011 10:02:00 PM

I'm starting to really get shifty over all the re-branded closed loop systems. How is there so much variation in the results of what are effectively the same units?

I wish all these sites would actually have a look at the pump revisions or show is the insides of these blocks to show us potentially why there's a performance difference. It sure doesn't look like the radiator/fan combo is changing.
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a b K Overclocking
March 4, 2011 10:29:53 PM

From what im reading it's actually good...Not the best but good enough to cool a overclocked sandy bridge imo. I'm actually thinking about getting this because i have small mid tower case from Lian-li and i don't want anything getting in the way of the tall memory heatsinks im getting. Plus it makes your system have a cleaner look to it.
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March 4, 2011 11:12:46 PM

The Kuhler looks interesting I would go for it
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a c 324 K Overclocking
March 5, 2011 12:07:51 AM

Quote:
I wish all these sites would actually have a look at the pump revisions or show is the insides of these blocks to show us potentially why there's a performance difference. It sure doesn't look like the radiator/fan combo is changing.


^This.

There is some questionable rebranding with these models and there isn't any listed pump/flow/power/rad specifications listed anywhere. If you buy real watercooling gear, almost any engineering spec or dimension is listed...even down to the screw sizes and threads.

I'll be honest; these coolers are average at best. They have the potential to be great, but they are limited by weak pumps and they all are crippled using a single 120mm radiator. The only positive to these setups is the fact that they are easy to mount in any case. Oh, and that the user can brag they have watercooling...even though it's laughable in comparison to actual watercooling.

Until someone makes something truly impressive, I will remain a skeptic on any revision or rebranding of the same product.

Swiftech had the CPU block/Apogee drive that was a good product...it ended up turning into the radiator/pump combo instead...with some more support, it would've been what these products desire to be, but with the capability to expand into what some H50/H70 modders try to do...add more to an actual loop. This was the beginning of the XSPC Rasa kit as well.
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a b K Overclocking
March 5, 2011 12:53:11 AM

Well you can't compare this to a real water cooling system.. The Rasa water cooling kit is around $129.99 to $149.99 depending on what radiator you get. But for someone that wants something different then a aircooler and don't want to spend hundreds of dollars on a watercooling system then the h70 or Antec Kuhler H2O etc
would be the only way to go. Its basically what you get is what you pay for you can't expect it to compete with a real water cooling system, it's just not going to happen.
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March 5, 2011 1:35:32 AM

The problem many people have with these devices is many that they are poor price/performance devices. No one expects them to out-compete a full blown water cooling system. However, for the price one would expect them to reliably beat top end air, and they don't.

All these devices are simply mix and match re-brands of the Asetek 500 series kits. For some of the wildly varying benchmarks on them is rather silly as Asetek themselves only advertise a 4°C difference between their usually seen 550 model and their top offered 570 model. Almost every benchmark I've seen uses the processor thermal diode as temperature measurement method, which usually has an error margin of ±5°C in the temperature range the load temps are observed at. Frosty Tech is the only site I know of that practices what I'd call "good science" in heat sink testing.

Also, my curiosity to the block is satisfied. A basic deep channel micro-fin system, offering fairly poor surface area at a casual glance.
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a c 324 K Overclocking
March 5, 2011 2:32:12 AM

Quote:
However, for the price one would expect them to reliably beat top end air, and they don't.


^^Quite possibly the biggest misconception about these coolers.

Quote:
Also, my curiosity to the block is satisfied. A basic deep channel micro-fin system, offering fairly poor surface area at a casual glance.


^^Agreed...I've seen some of them pulled apart. That isn't even the scary part...its the dismal flow of the pump. Some people who have attempted to get a flow rate on it have said its quite low and the pump barely seems to move coolant.

I'd like to get Skinnee to test one out and see; I know he did the one on the H50 but there was not a tear down to get a flow meter in and test the flow...which is really what I want to know from him.
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a b K Overclocking
March 5, 2011 2:38:17 AM

According to the newest MaximumPC mag...

$110 Corsair Hydro H70
versus
$340 Swiftech H2O-320-EDGE DIY kit
versus
$558 custom loop (really a $413 custom loop with $145 worth of quick-disconnects added on)

Tested on Intel Core i7 930 overclocked to 3990MHz:
Corsair: 35.25ºC idle, 74.25ºC load, 75.5ºC peak
Swiftech: 36.5ºC idle, 68ºC load, 69.75ºC peak
Custom: 36.5ºC idle, 71ºC load, 72.25ºC peak

They totally skipped the $130-$330 cost category, in which there are several quite good kits.
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March 5, 2011 2:40:56 AM

rubix_1011 said:
I'd like to get Skinnee to test one out and see; I know he did the one on the H50 but there was not a tear down to get a flow meter in and test the flow...which is really what I want to know from him.


I had a look at that review. It looks kinda like he did it for the sake of getting it done to please the masses. Doesn't seem like he was too interested otherwise we'd probably see separate radiator and pump breakdowns. I have a hunch seeing those two reviews would really not sit very well people producing these.

Leaps-from-Shadows said:
They totally skipped the $130-$330 cost category, in which there are several quite good kits.

Yeah, that XSPC Rasa kit performs very close to the Swiftech kit I think (same rad size kits of course) and really highlights how far you can get on budget water cooling.

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a c 324 K Overclocking
March 5, 2011 2:49:14 AM

Quote:
According to the newest MaximumPC mag...

$110 Corsair Hydro H70
versus
$340 Swiftech H2O-320-EDGE DIY kit
versus
$558 custom loop (really a $413 custom loop with $145 worth of quick-disconnects added on)


This is the reason most people are scared off from watercooling. For $250-$300 you can build your own CPU loop and depending on the 'custom loop' hardware chosen, this is possible, but by no means set in stone.

Quote:
I had a look at that review. I looks kinda like he did it for the sake of getting it done to please the masses. Doesn't seem like he was too interested otherwise we'd probably see separate radiator and pump breakdowns. I have a hunch seeing those two reviews would really not sit very well people producing these.


I completely agree. I think it was more a political move more than anything, but most noobs will likely just see the ad listed and think it's a good buy or see it linked to some hardware review site that has absolutely no clue what to expect in a water vs. air cooler.
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a b K Overclocking
March 5, 2011 3:43:00 AM

Well for $69.99 what do you expect it to do? Do you expect it to cool better then a real water cooling system? I'm pretty sure this Antec h20 can handle a sandy bridge overclock at 4.5ghz. I guess i'll have to wait and see some more benchmarks...I'm still deciding on what cooler to get for my i5 2500k...Not sure if i want this or air cooler...Was thinking of getting the Rasa watercooling system for $129.99...
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March 5, 2011 4:37:42 AM

As I said, no I don't expect it to outperform a custom water cooling setup.

I would like it to even just out-perform cheaper air cooling setups, but the track record of these devices say it won't.

Trying to cross estimate the results it it looks like this device is performs the same as the Tuniq Tower 120 Extreme (assuming the H50 in the linked test has its fans on max and the Kuhler does too) will beat it by 7C, but beats it at retail price by $10.
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March 7, 2011 11:20:33 PM

If you all have any direct questions for us at Antec, I'd be more than happy to help.

The 620 isn't meant to compete with a custom loop costing $200+. It's meant be an alternative to cooling solutions that may take up more space than many people have in their chassis while offering comparable performance.
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March 7, 2011 11:27:07 PM

I don't actually think the Kuhler is worth it when you have cheaper options (hyper 212+, scmg-2100) that perform only slightly worse and are much cheaper
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a c 324 K Overclocking
March 8, 2011 12:48:52 AM

^Correct; the price/performance curve isn't that great against other air coolers that sometimes cost a fraction of the price and perform almost as well/as well.
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a b K Overclocking
March 8, 2011 1:11:46 AM

Very true but sometimes people with high ram heatsinks won't be able use a after market heatsink with 2 fans installed. Or some people just get it for looks. I mean think about it, Noctua NH-D14 or Thermalright Silver Arrow is probably one of the best air cooled heatsink but alot of people think it's ugly looking or just way to big. Some people just want performance so they go for the NH-D14 or even water cooling. Me personally i wouldn't get anything that big for heatsink. Plus if you think about it the Cooler Master Hyper 212 plus is $30 if you put Noctua fans on them it'll be $80 for it. If you don't care about how big it is and want one of the best air coolers out there for the money i'd go with the Noctua NH-D14 for $75 because those fans alone on that heatsink are $25 a piece so to me you get a better deal on that more then any other heatsink out there. Even the Noctua NH-U12P is a bargain for $65 especially the fans that comes with it. I honestly don't think anything comes close when it comes to a quite cooler like Noctua.
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a c 324 K Overclocking
March 8, 2011 1:25:44 AM

The H50/H70's don't perform very well until you add some med/high CFM fans to them in push/pull. So the same added costs can apply here as well.
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a b K Overclocking
March 8, 2011 1:35:25 AM

Yup very very true. Especially on the H70 which requires a high cfm fan because of the thick radiator. But at the same time it's loud as hell. That's why i like Noctua heatsinks because of the fans it comes with.
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March 10, 2011 6:01:14 PM

To answer the questions above - the reason why our cooler performs better than some of the others is the cold plate. This is a third generation cold plate from Asetek which gives us the performance delta that you're seeing in reviews.
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a c 324 K Overclocking
March 10, 2011 6:17:24 PM

So, Antec_Jessie:

When you say 'cold plate' are you meaning a TEC/Peltier?

This in conjunction with a LCS?
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March 10, 2011 6:20:12 PM

No, I simply mean the copper block that's attached to the pump on the 620 is different than previous versions made by Asetek. . It's not TEC/Peltier.
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a c 324 K Overclocking
March 10, 2011 6:37:25 PM

Cold plate and copper block would appear to have different meanings; especially in the world of watercooling. A cold plate would infer a process used by TEC/Peltiers using electric current to transfer heat from a heat source (CPU) to a cooling side (waterblock/cooler side) to be dissipated by the selected means of the cooler.

No offense, but saying 'cold plate' doesn't really provide an accurate description of the true cooler functionality, when 'water block' is a far better suited descriptor. 'Cold plate' implies that the cooler itself provides the means to cool the copper contact area below ambient temps as part of the cooler's design.

This is a very significant difference in design.
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March 10, 2011 8:00:22 PM

I apologize - what I meant is that the copper block has changed between the previous offerings from our competition and the Kuhler H2O 620 and it's the largest reason why the performance delta exists.
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a c 324 K Overclocking
March 10, 2011 8:04:59 PM

Understandable, but your product page also has it listed as:

Quote:
Latest generation copper cold plate for optimal conduction


Again, the reference to the revised waterblock as a 'copper cold plate' is somewhat misleading since it doesn't actually 'get cold' to add to the cooling ability of the cooler. it's a waterblock. The coldest it can possibly get is room temperature and that is typically before the system is even started up.
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March 10, 2011 8:25:00 PM

I want us to get this right, so after looking at our competition's offerings, they say cooling plate. They also say cold plate. Now, this doesn't make what we're doing right because our engineers do agree with you that a cold plate technically means that it's able to cool below ambient temperatures.

Ultimately what we're talking about here is a piece of copper that pulls heat away from the CPU. We're not attempting to mislead anyone - and we certainly don't advertise it as a peltier/TEC. Absolutely not.
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a c 324 K Overclocking
March 10, 2011 8:38:11 PM

@Antec

I understand, but just because the competition does it, doesn't mean that you should to...its perpetuating a misleading concept to those who wouldn't know the difference.

If you really wanted to get a let up on the competition, you'd be wise to explain the specific differences in the terminology being used and exploit them to your advantage. Some of the very best marketing isn't about 'look what we do too', it's about making a statement that the 'other guy' is providing misleading information which then leads to consumer product doubt and mistrust.

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a b K Overclocking
March 15, 2011 12:50:45 AM

Best answer selected by Bigmac80.
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April 7, 2011 2:53:51 AM

Bigmac80 said:
Anyone try out this new cooler from Antec? Reviews i read it's actually better then the H50..

http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=Mjc2OA==


Just got one, and so far the results are better than I expected. Phemon II X4 965 BB 3.4 GHz stock, (room temp 22C) idle is 27C and after a short (40 min) test on Prime95 39-40C. Will try some OC this weekend. It's very quiet. On my ASUS MB it won't start to kick the fan into higher rpms until it reaches 50C. So, I haven't heard how loud the fan is at higher RPM's yet. My old Zalman sounded like a vacuum cleaner once you started turning up the RPMs. My case looks empty and I can see my first two RAM sticks now. With the Zalman my CPU at stock idled at 35C and 53C at max load. I'm using the thermal paste that came with it. I was going to use artic silver 5, but read where some people said don't bother, the paste on it really good. I'll try the AC 5 at a later date. I'm just using the one fan, read somewhere that a 2 fan push pull only results in about -1C. Right now my CPU is running at (27C) the same temp as my main Hard Drive, MB temp is 30C.
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