AMD 965 - where have i heard that number before? - CPUs

AMD in another genious move names their new cpu the 965!

Let me think. that sound familar? oh ya, the 965 p4! wait the 965 chipset! wait the new i7 965!

Its bad enough when your cpu's fail to deliever as the phenonm did, but the new phenom II are a bargin - note to amd!
note: do not copy intel names to promote a really good cpu, come up with your own name!

you guys miss me?

intel fan boy #1: IFB#1 you guys miss me?

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Reply to dragonsprayer

Lessee, wasnt there a heatburst 965? At about the gazillion Gigahurts? Or, = to a AMD 3700 single core?

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Reply to JAYDEEJOHN

Oh, you mean because Intel would never copy AMD by something like using x86 64-bit extensions (especially when Itanium was going so well), use an integrated memory controller, or try and make a dedicated graphics card. Oh, wait a minute............

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Oh, this IS nothing new, that 3700 AMD? Yep , it was named after the P4 equivilent of its needed clockspeed per performance.
So, when they were ahead, they did it then as well, so, your point?

------------------------------ If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening
Reply to JAYDEEJOHN

megamanx00 wrote :

Oh, you mean because Intel would never copy AMD by something like using x86 64-bit extensions (especially when Itanium was going so well), use an integrated memory controller, or try and make a dedicated graphics card. Oh, wait a minute............

Actually AMD is letting Intel use x86-64 and thus making us stay with x86 which is old and needs to be thrown out but change is near impossible.

And no Intel is designing a new GPU based with their own ideas. AMD just bought ATI and is taking the credit for plans that ATI had before AMD purchased them (ATI had up to R800 aka the HD5K series out before AMD bought them.), big difference.

Now if AMD actually went out of their way to create a new GPU of their own design along with chipset then maybe Intel would have copied them. But since they took the easy road and bought ATI its not intel copying its Intel making the playing field even so to speak.

And Dragon, seriously who gives a crap with the naming? If it performs for those who buy it it works. All it is is a way to limit the OC potential of it.

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Reply to jimmysmitty

Ever heard of IBM?

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Reply to JAYDEEJOHN

dragonsprayer wrote :

you guys miss me?

Yeah, in the same way I'd miss having cancer.

Reply to Mousemonkey

Hey, DS, love your new models, especially the mouse

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Reply to JAYDEEJOHN

JAYDEEJOHN wrote :

Hey, DS, love your new models, especially the mouse

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums [...] ancomp.jpg

:lol: [:mousemonkey:5]

Reply to Mousemonkey

wasnt l3 cache amds idea too, no ones gonna mistake a $250 chip fora $1000 chip, although, i as a fervant amd supporter must hang my head in shame of the 140w tdp.

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------------------------------ Athlon X2 5800+|ECS A740GM-M|Kingston 2GB DDR2
Reply to xaira

if this was named SPARTA and not that shitty sempron.......

imagine this, the sparta proc (this 965) holds its own againest I3 and i5 for a little while, until intel unleashes price cuts to them and the mobo prices goes down and the 300 (lets face it, who pays for a top of the line proc when your OC overhead is small) Spartans are slaughtered and AMD goes back and does R n D.

then AMD releases true K-10 and pwns intel, with a 3 to 1 ratio!!!

then it'd be lawls

damn that could be fun

Message edited by theholylancer on 08-13-2009 at 08:28:03 PM

Reply to theholylancer

xaira wrote :

wasnt l3 cache amds idea too, no ones gonna mistake a $250 chip fora $1000 chip, although, i as a fervant amd supporter must hang my head in shame of the 140w tdp.

At Idle: same power consumption as the 955

At Load: 3w more than 955

from Anand

Reply to Wisecracker

JAYDEEJOHN wrote :

Hey, DS, love your new models, especially the mouse

LOL - you're far too cruel . Besides, with a 140W TDP, that iron could be powered by 965 X4's .

BTW, interesting how AMD, despite giving the world X64, fares so poorly on overclocking on 64-bit OSes:

Quote :

A 625MHz overclock is nothing to sneeze at, but it certainly does not come near those 6GHz~7GHz clock speeds we see on a regular basis with the Phenom II series. Granted, reaching those high clock speeds requires LN2 cooling but there is another important reason. We have discussed it several times and still do not have an acceptable answer from AMD about the inability of the Phenom II to clock much past 4GHz with a 64-bit operating system. Even with LN2 cooling we have not successfully benched past 4.4GHz with a 64-bit OS.

Once again, we tried XP 64-bit, Vista 64-bit, and Windows 7 64-bit and the results are always the same. As we near 4GHz, the voltage requirements increase dramatically and the clocking ability of the processor decreases in much the same manner. This does not occur in a 32-bit operating system, which happens to be the recommendation for any sort of benchmarking activities with the Phenom II.

:bounce:

Reply to fazers_on_stun

Simply heat related. Thatll change by the end of the year. Maybe Intel will have something thast also brings 20% increases by then as well

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Reply to JAYDEEJOHN

JAYDEEJOHN wrote :

Simply heat related. Thatll change by the end of the year. Maybe Intel will have something thast also brings 20% increases by then as well

But that doesn't appear reasonable, seeing as how the superleaky P2's can oc to 7GHz on a 32-bit OS. Seems far more likely that AMD didn't do as good a job with critical timing paths in 64-bit mode as they did with 32-bit mode.

Reply to fazers_on_stun

No. First off, the super leaky parts oc beyond anything Intel currently makes, and those arent for sale, even tho Intel tried to outdo it with their own super leaky 975
Secondly, at normal operating temps, which were talking about here, and not those other chips, temps for stabilization are more important on AMDs current lineup than Intels.
Read the reviews, on every one, the thermals are whacked using a 64bit mode, so its obvious.
Correct that with a new stepping, and the problems solved
Also, in earlier oc reviews, those same chips never reached the AMD presntations, or the TWKR levels, came close but fell behind to around the Intel cherry picked level

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Message edited by JAYDEEJOHN on 08-14-2009 at 01:03:31 AM

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Reply to JAYDEEJOHN

JAYDEEJOHN wrote :

Read the reviews, on every one, the thermals are whacked using a 64bit mode, so its obvious.
Correct that with a new stepping, and the problems solved

So why don't the i7's also show a big thermal increase in 64-bit mode?

Sorta seems like AMD did the pooch on their claim-to-fame X64, at least with the P2

Reply to fazers_on_stun

No, you need to look at power used,, right? If the power goes up, so do the thermals. Just like smt, more is being used

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Reply to JAYDEEJOHN

Here is what I found in a quick search:

Quote :

Higher Overclocks in Vista 32-bit vs. 64-bit?
In preparation for this article we also wanted to test one more theory: that Phenom overclocks better under 32-bit Vista than 64-bit Vista. The basis for this theory is that the number of active registers increase in 64-bit mode, which creates additional workload routines that leads to increased transistor switching that ends up increasing thermals and loads on the IMC. Well, you get the picture, not exactly a cycle of events that would lead one to believe an already clock starved core design has a chance when moving to a 64-bit environment, well at least Vista 64-bit. In case you're wondering, Intel CPUs seem to overclock the same regardless of OS but just for kicks we tried our 9850 under the two OSes to see how things differed:

Of course this is a year old - no P2, no Nehalem. However since the P2 is basically a P1 on 45nm, I'd guess at least half of the the above remains true .

Reply to fazers_on_stun

umm, if this can be fixed by a CPU revision, chances are they are not present and I want to see proof of Ph II doing this.

Because a die shrink don't mean they didn't do under the hood work, they do work on their CPU all the time, which is why we have CPU revisions of the exact same chip, and some revs work better (IE the D0 vs C0 deal, intel, but AMD does these revs too)

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Reply to theholylancer

theholylancer wrote :

umm, if this can be fixed by a CPU revision, chances are they are not present and I want to see proof of Ph II doing this.

Because a die shrink don't mean they didn't do under the hood work, they do work on their CPU all the time, which is why we have CPU revisions of the exact same chip, and some revs work better (IE the D0 vs C0 deal, intel, but AMD does these revs too)

The "proof" was in the original comment I made, some 8 posts above, concerning the Anandtech P2 965 review. AT found the 965 hit a wall around 4HGz on 64-bit OSes - XP-64, Vista-64 and W7-64. Same as the 955 and IIRC the 945.

So it looks like despite a process node shrink & I dunno how many steppings, this problem hasn't been fixed since P1 on 65nm a year ago.

Reply to fazers_on_stun

This speaks nothing of the entire usage , nor the amperage.
It appears the volts can be higher on the 32bit OS, which could mean that since the entire core osnt being used, a higher vcore is allowed, whereas that isnt so when fully loaded.
Since AT failed to take power usage draw, and only listed voltage in, it means nothing, and proves nothing, other than theres a difference, which is what we knew before.
Think of it this way. If 50% is being used, and you upped the vcore by 50%, it maxxes out.
But, using 100%, you cant up the vcore. So again, unless they showed power draw, they got nowheres in this "investigation" other than to have AMD look bad, and its all on their Phail

------------------------------ If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening
Reply to JAYDEEJOHN

can anand or someone repeat the test but with LN2 and hefty voltages about this ceiling, take a chip that is proven to run at 6 Ghz with LN2, get it run at 6 Ghz with LN2, boot into 64 bit with stable 32 bit settings and see what happens?

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Reply to theholylancer

Look at this table. The top oc. If thermals are controlled , it shouldnt make any difference right?
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forum [...] p?t=213248
The link shows the top oc was done on phase, which handles the thermals, same as LN2 would.
I said earlier, theyre tricky with their thermals, and using a 64bit on the same cooling system mind you, itll be too much.
However, take that away as lancer suggests, and we see the outcome from my link, tho only using phase, it appears its enough, and so too would be a stepping change

------------------------------ If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening
Reply to JAYDEEJOHN

theholylancer wrote :

can anand or someone repeat the test but with LN2 and hefty voltages about this ceiling, take a chip that is proven to run at 6 Ghz with LN2, get it run at 6 Ghz with LN2, boot into 64 bit with stable 32 bit settings and see what happens?

It seems AT already did - see this from the first post of mine above:

Quote :

Even with LN2 cooling we have not successfully benched past 4.4GHz with a 64-bit OS.

Reply to fazers_on_stun

It seems AT arent very good either

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forum [...] p?t=213248

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Message edited by JAYDEEJOHN on 08-14-2009 at 09:06:20 PM

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Reply to JAYDEEJOHN

How they can get 17% more on DICE shows ATs inneptness, and also, its as high as the 32bit OS' , so I rest my case

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Reply to JAYDEEJOHN

ok so there are people with 5 Ghz OCs with 64 bit (particle with 64 bit system, server 2008)...

And there isn't anyone whom used two different OSes on the same chip, and we all know the OCibility of each chip is different.

Can we get a straight comparison of the same chip under LN2 and with vista 32 and vista 64? Where at a specific speed one would work and one would crash?

Reply to theholylancer

I cant find one, tho I know Ive read in the ES forums it didnt matter once the thermals were taken care of, but I cant find that thread.
Its on there somewheres, and it didnt make a difference

------------------------------ If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening
Reply to JAYDEEJOHN

JAYDEEJOHN wrote :

Lessee, wasnt there a heatburst 965? At about the gazillion Gigahurts? Or, = to a AMD 3700 single core?

the heat bust 965 EE was not just a great chip is was better then any amd when set up correctly at multitasking. my avatar is a 965EE water cooled system clocked at 4.5ghz

fx-60 at 2.8ghz was great and no doubt the leader from may of 05 to core 2 in july 2006

so the 965 ruled! i loved thos machines! here an air cooled one shipped at 4.4ghz - by the way the customers loved them too! heck they still set 965's ----lol!

then again i might be delusional, na, multitasking was better all amd superior ratings where based on systems without background programs and single tasking

there you go you heat burst is wrong, with 2 1950xtx sitting on top of the cpu in air cooled case running at 4.4ghz you can see no heat issues - these systems never failed never over heated - some still exist. one was sold on ebay just last fall.

netburst rocked! under-rated!

AMD go think of your own name instead of steeling my fav processor's name of all time!

65 c at 4ghz in a 75-85 degree room 965EE is my most fav of all egg cookers!!!!!!!

Message edited by dragonsprayer on 08-24-2009 at 02:32:14 AM

Reply to dragonsprayer

of coarse that is thermalright1 120mm beast sitting on it - with a push pull fan set up to cool it. so ....... ok it was pretty hot.

here is the 4.55ghz water cooled version:

why i claim to build the fastest computers in world - since we always have. THG says 975 is stable at 4.17 we shipped 4.4ghz in july - water cooled!

check out the push=pull koolance mod to tame the beastly 965:

no problem cooling the dual 1900xtx with net-burst beast - even with a crappy low end dual koolance pump set up psuh .5/m vs 1.5l/m now

i love the 965EE i want one in my coffin!

we came a long way in 3 years - the 975 at 4.4ghz:

965EE rocked!

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Reply to dragonsprayer

So you say. Surprisingly, most people dont agree with you, and that most people are Intel users, so whats that saying?
If you use LN2 correctly, itd probably clock slower than the P2 would as well on LN2.
Also, I'll take the price of the P2 965 vs the then priced 1000$ 965 heat sprayer, and both would get the same clocks on stock, tho the P2 would kick, just being a quad
I know you like to make money, and I think youre turning down ample opportunties by shunning AMD. Its just my opinion tho, but to me a wider customer base is almost always a wiser option

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------------------------------ If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening
Reply to JAYDEEJOHN

JAYDEEJOHN wrote :

Lessee, wasnt there a heatburst 965? At about the gazillion Gigahurts? Or, = to a AMD FX-60 dual core?

FIXED.

Message edited by joefriday on 08-24-2009 at 06:41:46 AM

Reply to joefriday

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipse [...] i=2725&p=7
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipse [...] i=2725&p=8
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipse [...] i=2725&p=9
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipse [...] i=2725&p=6
It won in 2 tests, 2.
If you wanna count bungholios etc, go ahead, it won in 2
So 2 out of around 16. Wow

Message quoted 1 times

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Reply to JAYDEEJOHN

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipse [...] i=2725&p=7
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipse [...] i=2725&p=8
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipse [...] i=2725&p=9
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipse [...] i=2725&p=6
It won in 2 tests, 2.
If you wanna count bungholios etc, go ahead, it won in 2
So 2 out of around 16. Wow

------------------------------ If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening
Reply to JAYDEEJOHN

I can find more wins against i7 for P2 in gaming

------------------------------ If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening
Reply to JAYDEEJOHN

dragonsprayer wrote :

of coarse that is thermalright1 120mm beast sitting on it - with a push pull fan set up to cool it. so ....... ok it was pretty hot.

here is the 4.55ghz water cooled version:

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/ [...] 400063.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/ [...] 400078.jpg

why i claim to build the fastest computers in world - since we always have. THG says 975 is stable at 4.17 we shipped 4.4ghz in july - water cooled!

check out the push=pull koolance mod to tame the beastly 965:

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/ [...] 400017.jpg

no problem cooling the dual 1900xtx with net-burst beast - even with a crappy low end dual koolance pump set up psuh .5/m vs 1.5l/m now

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/ [...] 400050.jpg

i love the 965EE i want one in my coffin!

we came a long way in 3 years - the 975 at 4.4ghz:

http://i329.photobucket.com/albums [...] 4-1ccc.jpg

965EE rocked!

Arrrgh the horror of 64kbps!

------------------------------ Dying
Is an art, like everything else.
I do it exceptionally well.
-Slyvia Plath Lady Lazarus
Reply to amdfangirl

JAYDEEJOHN wrote :

So you say. Surprisingly, most people dont agree with you, and that most people are Intel users, so whats that saying?
If you use LN2 correctly, itd probably clock slower than the P2 would as well on LN2.
Also, I'll take the price of the P2 965 vs the then priced 1000$ 965 heat sprayer, and both would get the same clocks on stock, tho the P2 would kick, just being a quad
I know you like to make money, and I think youre turning down ample opportunties by shunning AMD. Its just my opinion tho, but to me a wider customer base is almost always a wiser option

we only build water or air cooled systems, with 3 year cpu warranty and life time labor - no phase coolers no ln.

965EE in the photos is running full out at 4ghz 4.4ghz and 4.55ghz with air or water cooling

photos of the set ups and desktops

i even got photo somewheer of the cpu box next to it! lol!

keep in mind i got dig this stuff up - so at 60-65c the cpu will run 7 yrs at 100% at normal usage for a person it last 20 years

i do not turn down amd computers, but too many people what them. ONLY ENTHUSIEST USE HIGH END AMD, OR BIZ OR CHEAPY SYSTESMS. gamers, graphics people, ph'ds in research all want intel

Reply to dragonsprayer

amd fan girl? not sure what your asking but - i agree its 50/50 guess

i love the 965EE systems they where very fast, keep in mind i had an fx-60 with dual nvdia 7800's or the one between the 7900 - top cards

the gaming was great the multitasking was good but not as good as the 965EE - IMHO!!!!! i find photos of it too - give me a few months!

Reply to dragonsprayer

No more photos...

64kbps is painful already... photos will kill my interwibble.

------------------------------ Dying
Is an art, like everything else.
I do it exceptionally well.
-Slyvia Plath Lady Lazarus
Reply to amdfangirl

megamanx00 wrote :

Oh, you mean because Intel would never copy AMD by something like using x86 64-bit extensions (especially when Itanium was going so well), use an integrated memory controller, or try and make a dedicated graphics card. Oh, wait a minute............

Intel is licensed to use the AMD-64 extensions in the same way AMD uses licenses for some of Intel's technologies....

------------------------------ jennyh wrote: AMD break-even Q4 2009. *Gauranteed*

RabidFanboysSpreadingFalse.Info
Reply to TechnologyCoordinator

JAYDEEJOHN wrote :

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipse [...] i=2725&p=7
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipse [...] i=2725&p=8
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipse [...] i=2725&p=9
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipse [...] i=2725&p=6
It won in 2 tests, 2.
If you wanna count bungholios etc, go ahead, it won in 2
So 2 out of around 16. Wow

Yes, and well within 5% the performance in the majority of others. It stands.

Reply to joefriday

No, not the majority, since most real marks are games, and half of those are more than 5%
Maybe 10%. But it wasnt the peoples choice, not like the FX was, and I guess thats somewhat telling, especially fighting a giant, and winning in benches and popularity, it shows alot more than those few benches.
If you look at what people bought those chips for, the average win would be much higher for the FX, simply because it was the gamers chip, period, and few bought the 965 for winrar or what have you

------------------------------ If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening
Reply to JAYDEEJOHN

amd girl you are joking nobody is no dial anymore? or am i naive?
only people on dial up are old people who just you email!

your just pulling my chain! lol!

ok well enough on this ...point is amd come up with some new names

like what was wrong with fx?

how about the AMD ABC? or the 123?

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Reply to dragonsprayer

I know quite a few people who live in rural areas that are still on dial-up as that's all that is available to them.

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http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/3995/bl11.gif

Reply to Mousemonkey

In Australia everyone has bandwidth caps ranging from 200MB to a couple of hundred GB (rare). Unlike in the US where you get overusage charges, most ISPs here simply cap your speeds at 64kbps (or 128kbps for VoIP plans) once you exceed the bandwidth cap. That's what AFG was referring to.

Btw dragonsprayer, that sig image is huge and annoying.

Message quoted 2 times

Reply to randoMIZER

randoMIZER wrote :

Btw dragonsprayer, that sig image is huge and annoying.

I added his sig image to my adblock plus list quite a while back for that very reason.

Message quoted 1 times

Reply to cjl

dragonsprayer wrote :

amd girl you are joking nobody is no dial anymore? or am i naive?
only people on dial up are old people who just you email!

your just pulling my chain! lol!

ok well enough on this ...point is amd come up with some new names

like what was wrong with fx?

how about the AMD ABC? or the 123?

I get capped after 2GB of usage... 64kb from there.

------------------------------ Dying
Is an art, like everything else.
I do it exceptionally well.
-Slyvia Plath Lady Lazarus
Reply to amdfangirl

cjl wrote :

I added his sig image to my adblock plus list quite a while back for that very reason.

His sig gives me comfort. It lets me know that some folks from "the old days" are still here.

------------------------------ jennyh wrote: AMD break-even Q4 2009. *Gauranteed*

RabidFanboysSpreadingFalse.Info
Reply to TechnologyCoordinator