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Fresh Build, Need help!!!!

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August 13, 2009 3:10:12 PM

OK. So this is supposed to be easy mode, but it's not and I'm getting super frustrated. I have a brand new system and i'm having a ridiculous amount of problems getting it to work.

Specs:

550W Xclio PSU

Biostar TA790GXE 128m mobo

AMD 9950 Agena Phenom processor (quad core 125W)

4 Sticks of DDR2, 2gb sticks.

1 generic dvd-rw drive

1 - 500gb sata HD

Vista Ultimate 64x OS, SP2 installed.



Upon boot up, after updating the bios on the mobo, the system loads Windows, it goes to the desktop and immediately soft crashes. Everything still runs, but video/sound output stops and the system becomes unresponsive. I was using a pci-e graphics card, but removed it to eliminate any notion that it might be the graphics card.

I tried a new, fresh hard drive in the system and tried to install XP on the new hdd. Every time it would get to phase 2 of the install and immediately freeze and become unresponsive.

If I take the HDD with vista64 on it and plug it into a new system, it boots fine with no problems. If I take my personal HDD an attatch it to this fresh build, the OS loads and then immediately crashes.

A tech guy at my work said it sounds like a driver problem, but how could 2 HDD's be missing the same drivers from an essentially identical system? (both systems have the same mobo/processor combo)

Would love some advice on how to fix this.

THANKS!


System Specs
Budget: VGA:2x Asus 4870HD Dark Knight Monitor:
MB:Biostar TA790GXE 128M R1 OS:Vista 64 Ultimate Browser:
CPU:AMD Phenom 9950 Agena Sound: CPU Pps:
Memory:8GB 1066 OCZ PSU:550W Xclio Brand:
HD:250 Gb Seagate Cooling: Misc:

More about : fresh build

August 13, 2009 3:32:02 PM

What's different between the two systems? Did you swap the memory between both to see if the issue moves with it?
August 13, 2009 3:35:49 PM

The ram is a different brand per system, but all 4 sticks work appropriately.
I've run memory tests and individual boots on each stick on both hard drives in the working system.

Both processors are identical, both mobos, etc.
Related resources
August 13, 2009 3:38:39 PM

Was memtest successful with all 4 modules installed? Is the memory in the other system also 1066 MHz? Is it stable at 800 MHz?
August 13, 2009 3:46:43 PM

Yes. The mem test was also successful with each module installed individually.
All the memory is 1066mhz memory. I dont know if the new set is stable at 800, but it runs fine @ 1066mhz when i put it into the working system.

The only thing I haven't swapped between the 2 systems is the processor.

I can boot the OS in regular safe mode, but as soon as I boot it into SM w/ networking it crashes after about 5 mins. Upon normal start up, it crashes immediately after the 'Welcome' screen that pops up, desktop starts to load, loads the bkg, and then everything goes black.
August 13, 2009 3:49:09 PM

That still leaves the CPU and motherboard as a possible cause for that issue.
August 13, 2009 3:54:51 PM

I've already RMA'd one motherboard, and hope it's not another, but I do also hope it's not the processor.
Other than swapping cpu's between the boards is there anything else I could test?
I tech guy at my job says it sounds like a driver issue, but I have no idea what driver's it's crashing on or could be crashing on.
is it a good idea to install drivers in safemode?
August 13, 2009 5:11:35 PM

Also, How do you tell if say your:

Mother board is bad?

CPU is bad?

I know the hard drives are fine, I know the RAM modules are fine. The mobo updated the BIOS fine using the correct files.
This essentially leaves the CPU and Motherboard as the conflict points.
August 13, 2009 7:11:43 PM

Quote:
Also, How do you tell if say your:

Mother board is bad?

CPU is bad?
If you connect all components from the unstable system to the good motherboard and the system is stable, then you know that all components are fine. Then move the CPU to the known good motherbord. If it doesn't crash, then you know where the problem is (assuming that the PSU is not at fault, but you haven't indicated if you eliminated it by swapping it with the other one)
August 13, 2009 7:19:51 PM

I'll try swapping the CPU's later this afternoon when i get home then.

I've been asking around and some people are still saying it's a driver or memory error. I guess to detail, i can boot in safe mode with stability, but Safe mode with networking crashes, normal mode crashes, Someone suggested the crash is caused by a non existent LAN driver? Is it possible that my entire problem is being caused by a LAN driver? CPU driver? Any driver? Or does it sound more like a hardware problem?
August 13, 2009 7:20:11 PM

Swap out the power supply.
August 13, 2009 7:26:43 PM

Swapping PSU's yields the same failure. Note that the crash doesn't power down the system, the system stays running until I turn it off via power button or the switch on the back of the psu.
August 13, 2009 7:32:35 PM

And what happens when you reinstall the old bios ? and you did install the motherboard drivers off the disc right ?
August 13, 2009 7:36:50 PM

I can't install the any drivers unless I'm going to try and do it in safe mode.

Aside from that fact however, i did install the drivers for the motherboard with the new HDD hooked up to the working system, So it should have all the drivers already on it. I will attempt to reinstall the drivers to the mobo once again.
Can I install the drivers to the new system & mobo while the system is in safe mode and still have them work properly in Normal mode (provided it boots and stays stable in normal boot)??
August 13, 2009 7:43:28 PM

If both systems really are identical (same motherboard and BIOS) and you move the hard disk to the known good system and it doesn't crash, then it shouldn't be a driver problem.
August 13, 2009 7:45:46 PM

What about the bios ? Why did you update it ? And how was the machine running before you did ?
August 13, 2009 8:05:44 PM

GhislainG - Yes, this is what's confusing me as to where the problem actually lies.

swifty_morgan - I updated the bios because on the biostar website there was listed a problem (when i bought my mobo for my system) that caused the system not to boot at all when using more than 4gb of RAM. In order to combat having the problems that I had with my system, I updated the bios to the current settings.
Machine performed similarly with the BIOS from the factory shipment. Boot up and then the almost immediate crash. Prior to updating the BIOS I was getting a 'CMOS Checksum BAD' Error. Upon updating the BIOS, this error disappeared.
August 13, 2009 8:09:16 PM

tdub325 said:
I'll try swapping the CPU's later this afternoon when i get home then.

I've been asking around and some people are still saying it's a driver or memory error. I guess to detail, i can boot in safe mode with stability, but Safe mode with networking crashes, normal mode crashes, Someone suggested the crash is caused by a non existent LAN driver? Is it possible that my entire problem is being caused by a LAN driver? CPU driver? Any driver? Or does it sound more like a hardware problem?



If you can boot into safe mode with stability, then the problem is definately a driver issue. Boot into safe mode, go into device manager and uninstall the non-essential device drivers. Remove one device at a time, then reboot back into regular mode and see if it works. Try to get the latest drivers from the device manufacturers website so that hopefully, you aren't re-installing defective or incompatible drivers. Start with networking/network cards. This will be a painstaking operation!!

Safe mode tells all...the OS is fine. A device driver is causing your crashing!!
August 13, 2009 8:12:37 PM

Just for kicks........ do you have another battery to try on that board ?
August 13, 2009 8:17:07 PM

mikey - please define non essentials? I can install drivers in safe mode w/o problems correct? No one still seems to be answering this question, that or i'm not realizing the answer lol.

Swifty_morgan - Yes, I have tried another battery :D  Didn't work :fou: 

August 13, 2009 8:33:37 PM

What about swapping memory slots or using 1 stick.... and moving that one around ?
August 13, 2009 8:44:39 PM

Swifty - I've already swapped the memory around, I have 8 sticks to work with, and with all 8 sticks i'm getting the same crash.
August 13, 2009 8:46:57 PM

Quote:
I can install drivers in safe mode w/o problems correct? No one still seems to be answering this question, that or i'm not realizing the answer lol.
Absolutely.

If you use the hard disk from the good system, it still crashes, doesn't it? If so, then how can it be a driver issue (unless there are other components that are different and they cause the driver issue).
August 13, 2009 8:51:46 PM

I don't understand how it could be a driver issue myself, but anything is worth a shot.

Yes, putting the good HDD in the bad system yields a crash. Still unsure where to go completely, but I'll probably start with swapping out everything again systematically, and then by doing the driver deal.

Guess we'll see what happens >.<
August 13, 2009 8:55:16 PM

Here's an off the waller............ You said you took the video card aout but you didn't say which brand or what drivers so......

If an nvidia card........ if you used drivers that are pronouncing Windows7 and you're not using Windows7... find an older set. I had troubles with W7 drivers on my Vista macchine.

If it was an ATI card........ if you chose express install instead of advanced install you installed ATI's sound driver along with their video driver. Bad move there in some situations.
August 13, 2009 10:03:29 PM

It's not the graphics drivers.

I swapped out some memory, the system booted and stayed stable for several minutes w/o a network plug in attatched, I uninstalled the drivers for the network card, and tried to install the graphics drivers for the on board ATI graphics card thats on the mobo. It got about half way through installation and then the system crashed again.

I swapped cpu's between the system, and the cpu for the new system is running fine in my system.

I tried rebooting the new system in safe mode after trying to install the graphics drivers for the on board ati card, and it got to the welcome screen and then crashed.
August 13, 2009 10:14:45 PM

Go in safe mode and go into the device manager and uninstall the video..... uninstall whatever sound drivers you have on the machine. Reboot. See if Windows finds anything. If it doesn't it'll ask for a dvd. Do it. And if you get lucky and the machine stays running you can try a Widows update for hardware updates.......... dumb question....you got paste on your processor before you install the heat sink ?

I read this at newegg......... this you ?

Pros: Great layout. Pretty colors. Easy to understand manual and set up. Loads of compatibility.

Cons: Wouldn't update BIOS, crashed upon OS boot up.
Biostar Tech support is impossible to understand or communicate with.

Other Thoughts: I contacted Biostar in regards to the problem i was having, why i was having it, etc. I'm not a moron when it comes to computers, but couldn't figure out what was going on. After DETAILING my problem on how I couldn't update the bios, the guy from biostar told me to update the bios, basically do the exact same thing I was already doing. 4 emails later, after going back and forth, and him actually being ridiculous enough to ask me if the mobo posted, he tells me to just RMA it which i'm in the process of doing. Newegg + , Biostar Tech support = Fail.
I own one of these mobo's in my own personal system and haven't had any problems with it, so for me it's a 50/50 gamble. Great product, terrible support.
And if you call them, I hope you can speak Chinese, the companies based out of Taiwan, and thats where your US tech support phone call gets routed to.
August 13, 2009 10:21:01 PM

You also said you pulled the processor out of the good machine to try it. Did you put the processor from the bad machine into the good machine ?
August 13, 2009 10:23:11 PM

I'll try the safe mode reboot again, see where I can get.
Yes I have Arctic Silver 5 compound on the processors.

Yes, thats my review. Hence coming here for support and not anywhere else. Biostar is impossible.

I'm starting to think it's another dead mobo myself. I'm really getting fed up with this.
August 13, 2009 11:22:05 PM

Swifty - Thats what I did. I removed the CPU from the good and bad machines, and only booted up the good machine with the 'questionable' cpu. All worked fine.

I'm getting a semi stable boot up now on the 'bad' machine (I put the original procesor back in it fyi).

Idk why I said it's not the graphics drivers, because now it might be. For whatever reason, it's not recognizing the chipset for the on board graphics display. I've downloaded the graphics drivers for the Nvidia 8800 gt that I plan on using in this system, so i'm going to try and install that graphics card, check the bios to make sure it's the primary, and try and update the driver to IT before the system crashes (if it does again, which it probably will).

Will update soon i guess. Not a clue how to get the chipset drivers onto a system that wont stay on for more than a few minutes.

These Biostar boards are supposed to have an HD 3300 gpu on them, This one wont even recognize it. And when i try to run the disk that I have with the drivers on it in safe mode, the driver installer says it can't detect anything on my system.

Bad Mobo gpu? Bad mobo in general? If it's just the GPU can i bypass it and still use the system if I can get the drivers installed and stabilize the system for more than 5 minutes?
August 14, 2009 12:17:04 AM

Did you try downloading the integrated mother board driver from ATI/AMD's site ? instead of using the ones on the disc...

And if using nvidia drivers........ get the 181.22 drivers. The others ( newer Windows7 capable ) will screw you over.

Stay unplugged from the net while you do the driver thing.
August 14, 2009 12:39:44 AM

swifty_morgan said:
Did you try downloading the integrated mother board driver from ATI/AMD's site ? instead of using the ones on the disc...

And if using nvidia drivers........ get the 181.22 drivers. The others ( newer Windows7 capable ) will screw you over.

Stay unplugged from the net while you do the driver thing.


Will do.
I'm downloading the integrated driver only right now, trying to avoid the catalyst suite until i can acurately determine whether or not this is the problem.
If it's an actual huge problem with the mobo, I'm going to recommend that no one ever buy Biostar period.
August 14, 2009 1:21:38 AM

Plugged in the Nvida gpu, booted in safe mode. Installed drivers for nvidia card.
MoBo posts, boots to windows, SAME DAMN CRASH.
It boots windows, right as the desktop loads, the system crashes.
What the hell is wrong with this damn thing!?!?
August 14, 2009 1:34:10 AM

Are you running the memory at 1066 MHz or 800 MHz?
August 14, 2009 1:45:15 AM

GhislainG said:
Are you running the memory at 1066 MHz or 800 MHz?


Good one. That was my next question. Along with -are you running the right voltages- and do you have any ram that is on the manufacturers list ?.... far fetched but mushkin is good for having some problems on boards more than any others I've found. Also what are the cpu voltages.... within spec ?

Are there any mobo beeps or have you selected to run optimized settings in bios- reset the cmos. ( jumper )

have you tried to do a repair on the opsys ?..... not where it says "R" to repair but up where you got to load the opsys it'll ask you again.
August 14, 2009 2:10:11 AM

Use 1 stick does it crash? Yes see next option. No. Download MS updates, there was issues with 8G ram til you have correct updates installed.

Run ram @ 800 and .2v more then manufacturer specs requires. You need extra volts for that much ram.

Increase northbrige voltage.

Happy computing.

I take donations:
August 14, 2009 2:27:06 AM

How do you decrease the voltage @ which the ram runs at?
August 14, 2009 2:37:13 AM

I'm sorry, check that, how do you INCREASE the voltage to the ram, decrease the frequency, and increase the voltage to the NB?
what do i need to increase these values to?
August 14, 2009 2:44:27 AM

tdub325 said:
I'm sorry, check that, how do you INCREASE the voltage to the ram, decrease the frequency, and increase the voltage to the NB?
what do i need to increase these values to?


Forget all that. I don't want to see you mess something up...... laughable I know. Try the other stuff.
August 14, 2009 3:17:31 AM

Ram is running @ 800mhz stock through the mobo.
1 stick still causes crash.
Increasing voltage to ram, NB, and any other mobo component doesn't help.

Resetting cmos doesn't help either.

Next attempt?
August 14, 2009 5:59:09 AM

tdub325 said:
mikey - please define non essentials? I can install drivers in safe mode w/o problems correct? No one still seems to be answering this question, that or i'm not realizing the answer lol.

Swifty_morgan - Yes, I have tried another battery :D  Didn't work :fou: 



Sorry I took so long to respond, when I wrote my OP, I only had a few minutes left to get to work. Earlier in the thread you posted the following statements:

"Upon boot up, after updating the bios on the mobo, the system loads Windows, it goes to the desktop and immediately soft crashes. Everything still runs, but video/sound output stops and the system becomes unresponsive. I was using a pci-e graphics card, but removed it to eliminate any notion that it might be the graphics card."


A tech guy at my work said it sounds like a driver problem, but how could 2 HDD's be missing the same drivers from an essentially identical system? (both systems have the same mobo/processor combo)


I can boot the OS in regular safe mode, but as soon as I boot it into SM w/ networking it crashes after about 5 mins. Upon normal start up, it crashes immediately after the 'Welcome' screen that pops up, desktop starts to load, loads the bkg, and then everything goes black.


Hint: video/sound output stops and system becomes unresponsive. Your tech guys driver statement. But as soon as I boot it into SM with networking it crashes after about 5 minutes.

In this case by non-essentials, I'm referring to your networking software, network drivers, video and sound card drivers, since those are the ones referenced in your post. Uninstall the networking software and ethernet drivers first, then reboot and DON't load the drivers right away, just to see if you're stable without them. If it does, then reload, if not try the sound/video one at a time.

The other thing I'm really concerned about is your BIOS update. Did you do the update because you needed a fix for an issue or just because evryone said "GET THE BIOS UPDATE!!!". When it comes to bios updates, there should be a readme file outlining what the BIOS updates fixes and that should be reviewed. If it doesn't solve any problems you're having, most MOBO vendors would not recommend flashing the BIOS. Stuff happens. I'll check back later and see what king of luck you're having.

Mikey





August 14, 2009 2:40:21 PM

I didn't get the BIOS update simply because someone shouted get the bios, I did it because the mfr recommended it. Also, it was a critical update to the bios that fixed a problem for anyone running more than 4gb of ram that caused the hardware to error. The bios flash was absolutely necessary.
I did this bios flash to my own motherboard (which is the EXACT same model) and I haven't had any problems.
The new HDD has all the drivers it should need to boot up, but as soon as I do boot up, it crashes. I can move this HDD to my system (Exact same Mobo, memory, gpu, etc) and NOT have ONE crash period.

I'll try uninstalling the drivers for the ethernet in safe mode, and see if I can stabilize it with the OS in normal mode, but how do I turn off automatic detection of hardware in the OS in safe mode?

Also, why would the same crash be occuring on MY hard drive when i plug it into this new identical system? My HDD has all the drivers and then some for this damn mobo, and I still get that soft crash on my HDD.
August 14, 2009 4:34:17 PM

You aren't yet convinced that the motherboard is defective? Your last paragraph seems to indicate otherwise. I swap hard disks between systems using different video cards (ATI and NVidia) and different Intel chipsets. I rarely remove old drivers; I simply add the ones that are needed and my systems don't crash like yours.
August 14, 2009 5:03:26 PM

Same problem. I fairly sure it's another dead motherboard at this point but i'm stubborn hate admitting defeat, and really do hate biostar now.

Guess it's to the rma boards over in taiwan!
August 14, 2009 5:04:25 PM

By the way, thanks all very much for your help.

Stumped as can be, but thank you all very much. You guys were much more helpful than the Newegg tech forums, and even the mfr's own tech support.

Great community, thanks much!
August 14, 2009 5:37:32 PM

SATA or IED cable to plug in HD ? Try swapping the SATA connector to different receptor. Replace cables.

Power to the board. Did you plug in the 4 pin 12v connector up in the corner and also plug in a molex 4 pin connector that's somewhere in the middle of the board ?

Did you try pulling the mother board and reinstalling it or did you try putting together on a table top away from the case ?
August 14, 2009 5:55:29 PM

SATA cable HDD. Will try replacing cables/receptors later today.

4 pin has to be on to power up i believe, it's been in there the entire time.
I'll try and add the 4 in molex to see if it helps.

installed mobo in the case, didn't do it on a table top, but can if you recommend i try it.
August 14, 2009 6:12:08 PM

the only reason I would suggest it is that metal will expand as it gets hot. In a computer environment it's only minute but that's all it will take to contact the chassis.
August 14, 2009 6:24:37 PM

But do you honestly thing that the expansion could be great enough to superseed the risers i have installed?
August 14, 2009 6:31:48 PM

A lot of mobo's have high solder joints. Only 1 way to find out. What's it going to cost ?
!