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Can I SAFELY use an 8X AGP card in a 2X AGP slot (PIII)?

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May 30, 2009 8:31:21 PM

I'm asking because I need to replace my video card. Thanks!

frivolousme
a c 177 U Graphics card
May 30, 2009 8:46:41 PM

There should be no problems, both the card and slot should be keyed to prevent compatability issues, but you MUST check both card and computer manuals to confirm this.
If manuals are missing, Google is a great help in time of need;)
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May 30, 2009 9:36:44 PM

You need to qualify your blanket statement Outlander. Here is my card:


It is obviously a 1.5V AGP card, and according to the guide you posted:
Quote:
On the other hand a 1.5V AGP card is usually backwards compatible with older 2X AGP slots.


So there's that hurdle crossed. Now, my BIOS supports . . . 64MB, 128MB, 256MB. Is there any further advice you'd like to give me as to the onboard memory? (64/128/256 ?)

fm
a b U Graphics card
May 30, 2009 9:56:37 PM

Your card is not " obviously a 1.5 volt agp card"

If your agp card is x8 is far more likely to be 0.8 volts , and your motherboard is AGP x2 .
It would work if you had an agp x4 MB , but you dont .

Chances are 0.8 volts is not an option that AGP x2 is capable of .Even if you have a 1.5 volt slot it can probably only supply 1.5 or 3.3 volts
May 30, 2009 10:10:23 PM

to...old.. for Gin. >.<
May 30, 2009 10:12:03 PM

Outlander_04 said:
Your card is not " obviously a 1.5 volt agp card"

If your agp card is x8 is far more likely to be 0.8 volts , and your motherboard is AGP x2 .
It would work if you had an agp x4 MB , but you dont .

Chances are 0.8 volts is not an option that AGP x2 is capable of .Even if you have a 1.5 volt slot it can probably only supply 1.5 or 3.3 volts


Once again you are overreaching: The card I have used for years now is a "4X/2X" card. Incidentally, it hasn't quit, I'm only replacing it because AMD are a bunch of jerks and don't fully support the features of my trusty ATI card for the OS I just installed.

But perhaps I need to spell this out for you so there is no ambiguity:
My motherboard has a "2X" slot.
I've used a 4X, AGP-2.0-compatible card in this 2X slot for years.
You yourself just directed me to a site which states it will probably be compatible (since we've verified it uses the 1.5 voltage standard).

The question now becomes whether the options in my BIOS are limiting me in any additional way and I think at this point I'll take my authority from someone else.

fm
a c 171 U Graphics card
May 30, 2009 10:21:34 PM

It depends. Do you have a 2x/1x slot, or a 4x/2x slot? If you have a 2x/1x slot, your out of luck. A 4x/2x slot should work at 4x speeds. You should try to grab the 9700pro (I think the 9800pro will work as well) or any other high end card that has both notches. They were universal, and should work just fine.
May 30, 2009 10:23:44 PM

Gin Fushicho said:
to...old.. for Gin. >.<

That's rich coming from a 9 year old. :lol: 

fm
May 30, 2009 10:30:00 PM

4745454b said:
It depends. Do you have a 2x/1x slot, or a 4x/2x slot? If you have a 2x/1x slot, your out of luck. A 4x/2x slot should work at 4x speeds. You should try to grab the 9700pro (I think the 9800pro will work as well) or any other high end card that has both notches. They were universal, and should work just fine.


Fair enough. Let's presume 4/2, since that's the card I've been using with no problems.

:pfff:  But I have a real problem going with AMD. You couldn't by chance recommend some company other than AMD? What about some of these other guys -- PNY, Matrox, GeForce, NVidia? It's just very difficult for me to support a company I loathe.

And to think I used to criticize ATI!! I just didn't know how good they really were.

Please -- anyone but AMD. :kaola: 

fm
a c 171 U Graphics card
May 30, 2009 10:58:53 PM

The FX5800 I think was also a universal card. It sucked compared to the AMD cards of the day however. (not to mention very hard to find now.) I don't remember if the FX5900 was keyed this way or not.

Look at your motherboard and see where its notched. Do you need it in the front or the back? Once you know that, buy a card with the correct notch.
May 30, 2009 11:01:21 PM

frivolousme said:
That's rich coming from a 9 year old. :lol: 

fm


9 year old? 19. >.< I dont know squat about anything older then AGP 8X or in other words its near death.
May 30, 2009 11:31:16 PM

4745454b said:
The FX5800 I think was also a universal card. It sucked compared to the AMD cards of the day however. (not to mention very hard to find now.) I don't remember if the FX5900 was keyed this way or not.

Look at your motherboard and see where its notched. Do you need it in the front or the back? Once you know that, buy a card with the correct notch.


Man oh man did I find a good AGP site!
http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html

Talk about getting small with intelligence, I just learned that my Intel 440GX Supermicro PIII motherboard has an "AGP 3.3V UNIVERSAL" slot. That probably explains why my motherboard is so incredibly durable (not to mention tolerant!). It should be, it was damned expensive tsk lol. Seriously, it is an awesome motherboard. SCSI, 5 PCI slots, 2 ISA slots (ahhhhh, stable old ISA). She's just a beauty I tell you. I should also point out that my Supermicro mobo has 7 voltage regulators and so many failsafe controls it's mind boggling. Definitely not a cheap motherboard. I flashed her AMI BIOS in 2001

So, any non-AMD suggestions? They're practically throwing away 4X AGPs right now, so technically I could try a couple. The critical feature is that it must enable monitor rotation. Notice I say "enable." I had this working beautifully under W2K with my Radeon 7200 AGP card . . . and then came AMD. :kaola:  Their feckless Catalyst drivers are upgraded for XP Media Center Edition for Radeon 9500-on-up. I guess it was too much for them to include the approximately 3 lines of code necessary to enable Rotate in the older cards for XP MCE.

I may have to buy a new card, but I don't reward the company that just screwed me.

fm
May 30, 2009 11:38:22 PM

4745454b said:
The FX5800 I think was also a universal card. It sucked compared to the AMD cards of the day however. (not to mention very hard to find now.) I don't remember if the FX5900 was keyed this way or not.

Look at your motherboard and see where its notched. Do you need it in the front or the back? Once you know that, buy a card with the correct notch.

I'm sorry, the FX5800 is . . . ? I included a graphic for my current card, above. As you can see, the tabs seat "in the back" if I understand what you're asking.

fm
a b U Graphics card
May 31, 2009 1:51:12 AM

frivolousme said:
Once again you are overreaching: The card I have used for years now is a "4X/2X" card. Incidentally, it hasn't quit, I'm only replacing it because AMD are a bunch of jerks and don't fully support the features of my trusty ATI card for the OS I just installed.

But perhaps I need to spell this out for you so there is no ambiguity:
My motherboard has a "2X" slot.
I've used a 4X, AGP-2.0-compatible card in this 2X slot for years.
You yourself just directed me to a site which states it will probably be compatible (since we've verified it uses the 1.5 voltage standard).

The question now becomes whether the options in my BIOS are limiting me in any additional way and I think at this point I'll take my authority from someone else.

fm



I had no idea you were an expert .

My apologies . I should never have tried to help some one as awesome as your self
a b U Graphics card
May 31, 2009 2:07:15 AM

frivolousme said:
I'm asking because I need to replace my video card. Thanks!

frivolousme


Please provide the motherboard or chipset and the graphics card you're considering.

AGP 2X chipsets come with 3.3V slots, AGP 8x chipsets come with 1.5V slots, and some AGP 4x chipsets come with AGP Universal slots.

3.3V slots use the front key notch, 1.5V slots use the rear key notch, and Universal slots are unkeyed so they can fit both types of cards.

AGP 8x cards will usually have ONLY the 1.5V notch, so the 3.3V key on the slot prevents the card from going in.

There are a few AGP 8x cards that were 3.3V compatible, the best of these that I've seen based on the Radeon 9700 GPU. That includes classic Radeon 9500's but not the newer 9600-based 95xx.

Here's an article that explains it:

http://www.sysopt.com/tutorials/article.php/3532496
a c 171 U Graphics card
May 31, 2009 6:49:40 AM

If you look at your picture, there are two "notches" in the AGP connector area. One is in the front, the other is farther back. 2x uses a 3.3v signal voltage, 4x uses 1.5v, and 8x used .8v. This doesn't actually power the card, its used to tell the motherboard what card is in there, and what speed it can run at.

If your so anti AMD/Ati, how can you not know of the 5800? It was also called a hair drier or leaf blower. (it ran hot, and was very loud.) Again, the best card you could get is probably the 9700pro. No idea if it supports the rotation feature you mentioned.
a b U Graphics card
May 31, 2009 7:01:45 AM

4745454b said:
If you look at your picture, there are two "notches" in the AGP connector area. One is in the front, the other is farther back. 2x uses a 3.3v signal voltage, 4x uses 1.5v, and 8x used .8v. This doesn't actually power the card, its used to tell the motherboard what card is in there, and what speed it can run at.

If your so anti AMD/Ati, how can you not know of the 5800? It was also called a hair drier or leaf blower. (it ran hot, and was very loud.) Again, the best card you could get is probably the 9700pro. No idea if it supports the rotation feature you mentioned.


Most Radeon 9800 cards support 3.3V unofficially. ATI screwed up the description on 9600 cards, and when I made them aware of the mistake they pulled "official" support from all then-current cards. ATI actually (physically) dropped 3.3V support with the shrink in die process from .15 to .13 microns, and made the 9800 series on the older process.

The big question is probably whether or not the PCIe to AGP bridge chips support 3.3V and I'm not even going to investigate. I don't have to, because all he has to do is look at the slot connector.

But if he's like most of the people in here, he probably has an AGP4x slot and doesn't even realize it. That's why I asked about the motherboard/chipset. Most PIII systems used an 8xx series chipset, which is AGP4x generation.
May 31, 2009 7:40:15 AM

Does it matter.. Or you really gonna spend money to upgrade something so old. Get you a 200$ barebone kit, put it together, and have 10x the system. Obviously you're not a gamer.

And agp isn't dieing it is dead. The 3850 is the last card that came out for them. It's all pci-e now. To me that means it's dead as it is nothing but a dead end =).
May 31, 2009 7:41:55 AM

Didnt I mention it was dead? =D
a c 177 U Graphics card
May 31, 2009 11:10:01 AM

@ frivolousme: Are you changing the card because it is broken, or you have updated the drivers and they do not work?
If it is the second, you should reinstall the older drivers while anyone still has them archived.

http://support.amd.com/us/psearch/Pages/psearch.aspx?ty...
a c 171 U Graphics card
May 31, 2009 11:55:14 AM

While I wouldn't spend a lot of money on this, I'm sure you can find a cheap AGP card on Craigs list or the like. I've seen 9700pros and ti4200s on mine. Spending $20 for something like that isn't all that out of line. I would not spend $100 for a new card however.

Crash, you don't have to worry about the bridge chip because these are native AGP cards. The x8xx series used AGP to PCIe bridge chips, the first PCIe to AGP chips were used in the x1xxx series as far as I'm aware of. As long as he gets an x8xx or an Nvidia 6xxx, he should be fine. (as for as natvie AGP support goes...)
May 31, 2009 4:45:56 PM

coozie7 said:
@ frivolousme: Are you changing the card because it is broken, or you have updated the drivers and they do not work?
If it is the second, you should reinstall the older drivers while anyone still has them archived.

http://support.amd.com/us/psearch/Pages/psearch.aspx?ty...

I'm changing the card because the updated drivers do not work. I did try the original ver. 6.11 Catalyst drivers that worked perfectly under W2K, as well. And with each of these driver attempts, I began with fully, completely flushed ATI first.

I live in PORTRAIT mode, so this is genuinely painful for me to have to return to scrolling because XP Media Center Edition and/or AMD (AMD, I suspect) is limiting my widescreen monitor to orient to the equivalent of the Dead Sea Scrolls. I'm in a truly foul temper because of this.

I can purchase PIVOT PRO, but to be on the safe side I think it would be better for me to pick up a new AGP card (or two) while there's still a limited few being produced.

I'm not interested in purchasing used, incidentally. New only.

fm
a c 177 U Graphics card
May 31, 2009 5:08:14 PM

Try these people:

http://www.driverheavendownloads.net/ati.htm

Failing that all I can suggest is looking through the web for a repacement: Newegg seem favourite but AGP support is becoming hard to find.
May 31, 2009 5:18:52 PM

Crashman said:
Please provide the motherboard or chipset and the graphics card you're considering.

AGP 2X chipsets come with 3.3V slots, AGP 8x chipsets come with 1.5V slots, and some AGP 4x chipsets come with AGP Universal slots.

3.3V slots use the front key notch, 1.5V slots use the rear key notch, and Universal slots are unkeyed so they can fit both types of cards.

AGP 8x cards will usually have ONLY the 1.5V notch, so the 3.3V key on the slot prevents the card from going in.

There are a few AGP 8x cards that were 3.3V compatible, the best of these that I've seen based on the Radeon 9700 GPU. That includes classic Radeon 9500's but not the newer 9600-based 95xx.

Here's an article that explains it:

http://www.sysopt.com/tutorials/article.php/3532496


Crashman, now we're getting down to business. As I referenced above, I (fortunately) appear to be blessed with a Universal AGP slot -- not surprising considering how expensive my motherboard was. Supermicro make really, really good products. Also they're local to me (San Jose, CA) and that came in particularly handy when I flashed my BIOS in 2001. I also have aSCSI scanner (not-yet connected) and a USB printer (connected), but here is the basic architecture:

Windows XP Media Center Edition SP3 only* updated this far
2GB RAM
300W "AMD Approved" PSU
INTEL 440GX (256k stepped COPPERMINE) CPUs
SUPERMICRO PIII P6DGU DUAL-PROCESSOR 1000 MHz MOTHERBOARD

SCSI AIC-7890 Ultra2
AMI BIOS
NEC [ANALOG] LCD2470WVX Fully-Pivoting Monitor (a Single-Monitor Setup)
4 HARD DRIVES:
  • 70 GB Seagate SCSI Cheetah (Operating System)
  • 178 GB Seagate SCSI Barracuda
  • 500GB Seagate PATA
  • 500GB Seagate PATA
    NEC DVD RW 3520A
    CDWRITER CD RW Rewriteable
    ATX 8-Bay Full-Tower Chassis

    ATI RADEON 7200
  • Graphics Card Manufacturer . . . Built by ATI
  • Graphics Chipset . . . RADEON 7200 SERIES
  • Device ID . . . 5144
  • Vendor . . . 1002
  • Subsystem ID . . . 001A
  • Subsystem Vendor ID . . . 1002
  • Bus Type . . . AGP
  • Current Bus Setting . . . AGP 2X
  • BIOS Version . . . 001.001.000.060
  • BIOS Part Number . . . BK0.0.0 VR001.001.000.060.004.000.001 d4dqx
  • BIOS Date . . . 2001/02/26
  • Memory Size . . . 64 MB
  • Memory Type . . . DDR SGRAM / SDRAM
  • Core Clock in MHz . . . 198 MHz
  • Memory Clock in MHz . . . 198 MHz
  • Primary Display . . . Yes
    *because to be perfectly frank, if I can't get my monitor to rotate I'll chuck the whole OS, scrub the drive, and :pfff:  reinstall W2K -- something that puts me in a really, really pissed-off frame of mind, as you can well imagine.

    fm
    May 31, 2009 5:34:01 PM

    kingnoobe said:
    Does it matter.. Or you really gonna spend money to upgrade something so old. Get you a 200$ barebone kit, put it together, and have 10x the system. Obviously you're not a gamer.

    And agp isn't dieing it is dead. The 3850 is the last card that came out for them. It's all pci-e now. To me that means it's dead as it is nothing but a dead end =).


    Actually, it's not as dead as you think. Little known fact, ATI just released a 4650 AGP.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

    Not the best performer and a bit expensive, but hey, it's AGP!
    May 31, 2009 5:40:59 PM

    coozie7 said:
    Try these people: http://www.driverheavendownloads.net/ati.htm

    Coozie7, I appreciate your efforts to be helpful but -- trust me, there is no AMD driver that my ATI Radeon 7200 will take :kaola:  that has the ROTATE feature fully supported. AMD just screwed us legacy card holders over by blocking the application of the latest drivers that probably would work to apply to my 7200.

    Drivers that are lower than version 8.5 have ROTATE broken. Google it and you'll find it being discussed.

    What is the highest driver version that AMD will allow to be applied to the Radeon 7200? :pfff:  VERSION 8.252.

    I have a perfectly-functioning AGP card with a fully-loaded ROTATE feature that I've been using for years . . . but because AMD are just plain mean they leave it broken in the latest driver release they'll authorize for my card.

    Cute, huh? And now you know why I'm so pissed off at AMD. My God if I thought I could hack the Registry or modify the inf file I'd do it. It's probably something as simple as a switch and the morons won't fix it. Don't get me started.

    fm
    May 31, 2009 5:51:13 PM

    kingnoobe said:
    It's all pci-e now..

    Show me when your pci-e is capable of reserving a proprietary, dedicated memory pipe and you'll impress me. AGP may be being phased out, but it does one thing that PCI-e won't ever do.

    Unless of course it can figure out a way to dedicate its memory.

    In which case it would be . . . AGP.

    Next.

    fm
    a c 177 U Graphics card
    May 31, 2009 5:56:07 PM

    Ah, right.
    See what you mean.
    Out of fresh ideas so I'll just hide now then:) 
    May 31, 2009 5:57:45 PM

    chripuck said:
    Actually, it's not as dead as you think. Little known fact, ATI just released a 4650 AGP.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

    Not the best performer and a bit expensive, but hey, it's AGP!


    Well I wouldn't buy it from Newegg, since it isn't returnable; but even if I was, I still wouldn't buy it because I confess I am uncomfortable going with an 8X only card. It may sound quaint, but I just feel better seeing 4X somewhere in the desription. :whistle: 

    It would be nice to have DirectX 10, but . . . I'd be more than satisifed with DX9. The price is really not an issue for me -- just the condition (NEW) and the All Hallowed ROTATE feature heh heh. :lol: 

    fm
    May 31, 2009 6:01:01 PM

    coozie7 said:
    Ah, right.
    See what you mean.
    Out of fresh ideas so I'll just hide now then:) 

    Take me with you! lol :lol:  :pt1cable: 

    fm
    May 31, 2009 6:08:18 PM

    frivolousme said:
    Show me when your pci-e is capable of reserving a proprietary, dedicated memory pipe and you'll impress me. AGP may be being phased out, but it does one thing that PCI-e won't ever do.

    Unless of course it can figure out a way to dedicate its memory.

    In which case it would be . . . AGP.

    Next.

    fm


    I'm with you on that one , if AGP had more money put into it they could have gone not only 16x but 32x 64x and beyond.
    May 31, 2009 7:23:19 PM

    It still depresses me that they killed AGP, what a great technology. I held on till about 2 months ago...

    It's all about the money though, new graphics card connector requires new purchases on motherboards. How many people out there have an old Athlon X2 or 64 with AGP on it? Those chips are easily capable of handling recent games with an upgraded graphics card... but they're screwed.
    May 31, 2009 8:40:32 PM

    Okay guys pick some winners on either of these two sites -- including (and this is really hard for me) (grrrrr) ATI AMD. At this point I might try a couple different ones by the way so list your preferences in order. The two are vendors I've used in the past, with honest return policies heh heh.

    OUTLET PC
    http://www.outletpc.com/video-cards-agp-video-cards.html

    OVERSTOCK
    http://www.overstock.com/search?keywords=&taxonomy=sub151&refinecondition=New&searchtype=guidedNav&additionalKeywords=AGP&x=20&y=11

    fm
    May 31, 2009 9:51:54 PM



    YES! This looked the best to me, as well! But wait . . .

    what about this one Crashman:
    http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Visiontek-Radeon-X1300-Graphics-Card-512MB-AGP-4x-AGP-8x/2631493/product.html

    What I liked about this one were these three entries:
    Quote:
  • Intel Pentium 4/III/Celeron, AMD
  • Compatible with AGP 8X/4X bus
  • Windows XP Media Center Edition


  • . . . and the thing that gives me pause is this:
    Quote:
  • K6/Duron/Athlon/Athlon XP,K8

  • Those are jacked-up gaming CPUs, aren't they? And yet . . . III. Could you advise me here? Thank you again so much Crashman, what a joy it is to communicate with someone of your expertise (and obvious contacts at AMD heh heh).

    I am so ready to do this. Advise me on the VisionTek model please? And I agree with you that none of the (mid-high range) AGP models at OutletPC are appropriate for me, once I looked into them a bit more, although those Sapphires looked lovely.

    fm
    a b U Graphics card
    May 31, 2009 9:57:59 PM

    frivolousme said:
    YES! This looked the best to me, as well! But wait . . .

    what about this one Crashman:
    http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Visiontek-Radeon-X1300-Graphics-Card-512MB-AGP-4x-AGP-8x/2631493/product.html

    What I liked about this one were these three entries:
    Quote:
  • Intel Pentium 4/III/Celeron, AMD
  • Compatible with AGP 8X/4X bus
  • Windows XP Media Center Edition


  • . . . and the thing that gives me pause is this:
    Quote:
  • K6/Duron/Athlon/Athlon XP,K8

  • Those are jacked-up gaming CPUs, aren't they? And yet . . . III. Could you advise me here? Thank you again so much Crashman, what a joy it is to communicate with someone of your expertise (and obvious contacts at AMD heh heh).

    I am so ready to do this. Advise me on the VisionTek model please? And I agree with you that none of the (mid-high range) AGP models at OutletPC are appropriate for me, once I looked into them a bit more, although those Sapphires looked lovely.

    fm


  • Wow, X1300, such a low-end graphics chip! Is a low end card that's two generations newer than the high-end card really faster?

    I'm not certain whether its PCIe to AGP bridge chip really supports 3.3V signaling, when they say PIII they could be refering to 4x chipsets.
    May 31, 2009 10:03:26 PM

    I'll take that as a "no" heh heh. :lol:  9800 it is, and I'll report back on the outcome. :hello: 

    fm
    a b U Graphics card
    June 1, 2009 1:33:44 AM

    If it is physically possible to plug the card in then it is compatible with the motherboard and should work. The standard is defined so that it is impossible to damage the cards due to incorrect voltage. Check the slot positions on your motherboard against the graphics card to see if they are compatible.
    a b U Graphics card
    June 1, 2009 2:56:57 AM

    pjmelect said:
    If it is physically possible to plug the card in then it is compatible with the motherboard and should work. The standard is defined so that it is impossible to damage the cards due to incorrect voltage. Check the slot positions on your motherboard against the graphics card to see if they are compatible.


    9800 in the picture fits all AGP motherboards.
    June 1, 2009 3:12:47 AM

    I almost forgot to ask about the BIOS setting. The AMD site for the Radeon 9800 Pro Specifications is here:
    http://ati.amd.com/products/radeon9800/radeon9800pro/specs.html

    I am assuming my Graphics Aperture Size should be set to 128 but the following specification from Overstock confuses me:
    Quote:
  • Video card features DDR memory and a 256-bit memory interface


  • I have either option in BIOS (128 MB or 256 MB), which do you recommend?

    And I'd probably also better just clarify the steps for safely removing my 7200 + its drivers. I'm thinking
    Quote:
    1. ATI Uninstall (everything) from XP
    2. Device Manager\Remove Hardware\REMOVE THE 7200
    3. POWER DOWN
    4. Moment of Truth (Insert the Card)
    5. BIOS change to 128 MB
    6. Exit & POWER DOWN to allow BIOS to fully refresh
    7. Say Prayers and POWER UP
    8. Proceed to install most recent Catalyst package for this card (version 9.3)


    Confirm please? I decided to order 2, just to have access to a new, never-used backup card before the entire AGP standard joins the angels. :sweat: 

    fm
    June 1, 2009 3:39:16 AM

    chripuck said:
    It still depresses me that they killed AGP, what a great technology. I held on till about 2 months ago...

    It's all about the money though, new graphics card connector requires new purchases on motherboards. How many people out there have an old Athlon X2 or 64 with AGP on it? Those chips are easily capable of handling recent games with an upgraded graphics card... but they're screwed.

    You know I'm either lucky (or cursed heh) that I have so durable a computer, but I take your point. Let's face it, the day will come when even my Supermicro board bites it, and then I'll slavishly following whatever convention is in place at the time. Maybe by then they'll have accorded the paradigm of a dedicated memory pipe to the graphics card the dignity it so rightly deserves imho.

    I don't play games on my computer generally, but I do toy with video-intensive applications such as CAD and various 3d-Imaging packages. But frankly it's rare. The kind of games I would want to play would doubtless horrify our resident 19-something. Brace yourself: Solitaire. :lol:  Some years ago a friend gave me Railroad but I've never been able to use it because he presumed I was on XP. I would like to try it though, I confess. I don't like the violent games but Monopoly and Scrabble and old-timers are things I would like to see freshened for a faster video I must admit.

    fm
    a c 171 U Graphics card
    June 1, 2009 3:42:36 AM

    The Aperture size is rather confusing. Most will tell you that its a chuck of system ram that is set aside strictly for the video card. (similar to hyper memory cards.) The 128 number you listed should be a MB figure. The 256bit number you listed is simply the number of bits wide the memory interface is. The two aren't related at all. If my memory serves, the Aperture size should be twice the size of the physical memory on the card. If your buying a 128MB card, it should be set to 256MB. If my memory also serves, there isn't really a performance difference no matter what setting you use.

    June 1, 2009 4:08:42 PM

    4745454b said:
    The Aperture size is rather confusing. Most will tell you that its a chuck of system ram that is set aside strictly for the video card. (similar to hyper memory cards.) The 128 number you listed should be a MB figure. The 256bit number you listed is simply the number of bits wide the memory interface is. The two aren't related at all. If my memory serves, the Aperture size should be twice the size of the physical memory on the card. If your buying a 128MB card, it should be set to 256MB. If my memory also serves, there isn't really a performance difference no matter what setting you use.


    I've been reading the five user-configurable AGP settings outlined in my Supermicro P6DGU manual and was gratified to discover that AMI includes an AGP SERR (AGP System Error) option, which I'm going to turn on for the foreseeable future if/when the RADEON 9800 fits into my 2X slot. The Intel GX chip will assert a signal if it encounters any system error with this new card.

    I'm inclined to agree with you about setting the Aperture to 256 MB. I've had it on 64 MB for my 7200 but then that was AD 2001 (since our resident 19-something is counting years by a factor of millenia lol). Needless to say, I'd be inclined to give the aperture as wide a berth as possible given how much more loaded the RADEON 9800 is. I realize that for you gamers this is a snoozer, but if you'll look up you'll appreciate how radical the change is to someone like me: My old 7200 looks like a parched (but green heh) dead planet compared to the 9800. There's so much stuff packed onto that 9800 it almost looks like a motherboard. I love the fan btw. Also the red is great if for no other reason than one can immediately identify one's graphic card if by no other characteristic, by what color it is not.

    But there are two settings that I might have to do some research on, given how radically different this 9800 is:
    RED = Default
    Quote:
    AGP MULTI-TRANS TIMER
  • The settings are in units of AGP clocks: 32, 64, 96, 128, 160, 192, or 224
    AGP LOW-PRIORITY TIMER
    This option controls the minimum tenure on the AGP for low priority data transaction for both read and write.
  • The settings are: Disabled, 32, 64, 96, 128, 160, 192, or 224


  • Hmmm, is there where overclocking happens? God knows I wouldn't know. :lol:  What do you thing -- keep it at the AD 2001 default? increase it?

    fm
    a b U Graphics card
    June 1, 2009 10:47:14 PM

    kingnoobe said:
    Does it matter.. Or you really gonna spend money to upgrade something so old. Get you a 200$ barebone kit, put it together, and have 10x the system. Obviously you're not a gamer.

    And agp isn't dieing it is dead. The 3850 is the last card that came out for them. It's all pci-e now. To me that means it's dead as it is nothing but a dead end =).


    The last AGP cards ever officially released by ATI were the R400 series cards, subsequent gpu architectures were designed for use with PCIe therefore had to rely on a bridge chip and are not officially supported. The last AGP cards ever officially released by Nvidia were the Geforce 7 series cards.

    chripuck said:
    Actually, it's not as dead as you think. Little known fact, ATI just released a 4650 AGP.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

    Not the best performer and a bit expensive, but hey, it's AGP!


    AGP is definitely dead. It was a stupid decision for Gigabyte to manufacture it and from what I've heard/read they weren't supposed to.
    !