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questions about the law regarding satellite installations ..

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Anonymous
June 22, 2005 3:03:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc,alt.dbs.echostar (More info?)

Hi



I'm new to satellite TV but just today signed up after being
cold-called by a telemarketer selling DISH Network
equipment/subscriptions. I've looked into DISH and DirecTV before but
never signed up.

First off, can someone tell me the gist of the Federal law that
supposedly allows installation of satellites and other antennas,
regardless of what the lease says. I was told by the first two agents
I spoke with that that was the case, as long as "health and safety are
not affected". I guess that means that the installed dish and other
equipment can't block a stairwell, a pathway, etc., but I want to
know if that's really and true, and especially if it will override my
lease. I just renewed with my landlord for another year's lease in
May, and it indeed has a clause about satellites and other antennas
(basically saying that I am not allowed to install them). I live in a
two story apartment complex; it's not a condo or anything like that, I
have no ownership rights. I googled and found the federal statute,
and it does seem like it overrides my lease, but I would like to know
if anyone here has had experience with this law.

Regarding the monthly subscription fee, I was told by the first two
agents I spoke with was that my monthly bill would be $24.99 for the
first three months, as a promotional price, and that included the fee
for the second receiver; that the price would go up to $31.99 after
the first three months, including a $2.50 fee for the second receiver,
but that there would be an automatic $5.00 credit every month for the
24-months that I committed to. They also said that there was a
24-month price guarantee on the monthly rate. The $5.00 credit was
due to my buying my equipment (two receivers, without DVR capability)
up front for $199.

Ok, fine so far. Towards the end of the call, I was transferred to
the "legal department" where a different agent repeated the same
details, but _without_ the $5.00 credit, and said the monthly fee for
the second receiver would be $5.00, not $2.50. So I said, no, that's
not what I was told. Another guy comes on, says he's a manager, and
says what I was told by the first two agents was incorrect, or, rather
rudely putting it, that "you simply don't understand". There's no
$5.00 credit and the fee for the second receiver is $5.00. Supposedly
the $5.00 credit only applied if I got a DVR. He then switched me
back to the other agent without letting me say anything.

The other agent then tried to get my final authorization. I said no,
not without the $5.00 credit and the lower fee for the second
receiver. She said, pretty damn rudely, "Sir, you must understand by
now that will not get that price". I said ok, cancel the deal. This
is after I've been on the phone with them for over an hour while they
ran my credit, I put them on hold while I transferred money over to my
checking/debit account, scheduled the installation time, etc etc. She
says, obviously rude this time, "Fine, goodbye."

At this point I wasn't sure if I had an account and an installation
appointment or not. So I called Dish's 800 number to verify the
monthly price and installation time. I was eventually transferred to
a Hispanic agent who didn't seem to totally understand what I was
saying. She eventually quoted me a monthly price, for "America's Top
60", with local channels, of $21.99 per month. That was supposedly
with the fee for the second receiver, but before taxes. Now, this was
the third price I had been given, but even lower this time. I asked
her again to verify that that price was correct. She said it was. I
verified my installation date and time with her and hung up.

I called again, and this time got a very knowledgeable sounding,
non-Hispanic (or at least very fluent in English Hispanic person) who
seemed to be more on the ball. She told me that the monthly price was
actually what I had been told originally: a promo price of $24.99 for
the first three months, before taxes, then it would go up to $26.99
for the remaining 21 months. That's with the fee for the second
receiver and after a $5.00 automatic monthly credit.

So, is this a deal that other people have been getting? The $26.99
per month deal for "America's Top 60", including the second receiver
fee and local channels? Also, does anyone know if the initial call I
got was from DISH or from a telemarketing firm that they hired? Cause
if it was from DISH I'm going to cancel due to their truly awful
rudeness. If it was from a telemarketer I'll let it slide...and will
forcefully recommend to DISH that they hire another telemarketing
firm.
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 3:03:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc,alt.dbs.echostar (More info?)

"Ryan Meier" wrote:
> This
> is after I've been on the phone with them for over an hour while they
> ran my credit, I put them on hold while I transferred money over to my
> checking/debit account, scheduled the installation time, etc etc. She
> says, obviously rude this time, "Fine, goodbye."

Quick like a bunny, cancel the credit card account and get a new
account number (free of charge). No telemarketer would spend that
kind of time with you for their cut from a measely DBS account. It could
quite easily have been a con artist getting your credit information -
account nos. and authorization info. Better safe than really sorry.

*TimDaniels*
June 22, 2005 3:18:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc,alt.dbs.echostar (More info?)

"Ryan Meier" <ryan_meier@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:t47hb1dqqnegdlupe1qbn7jnell6g1c3fb@4ax.com...
>
> First off, can someone tell me the gist of the Federal law that
> supposedly allows installation of satellites and other antennas,
> regardless of what the lease says. I was told by the first two agents
> I spoke with that that was the case, as long as "health and safety are
> not affected". I guess that means that the installed dish and other
> equipment can't block a stairwell, a pathway, etc., but I want to
> know if that's really and true, and especially if it will override my
> lease. I just renewed with my landlord for another year's lease in
> May, and it indeed has a clause about satellites and other antennas
> (basically saying that I am not allowed to install them). I live in a
> two story apartment complex; it's not a condo or anything like that, I
> have no ownership rights. I googled and found the federal statute,
> and it does seem like it overrides my lease, but I would like to know
> if anyone here has had experience with this law.

If it's a lease and someone else owns the prperty, they have everyright to
say you can't drill any holes in their property.

You may be able to install the dish in a non-penetrating way (i.e. bucket
filled with quickcrete as the stand) and run the wire under a door to get it
inside, but if you don't own the property, you have no rights to make any
physical modifications without the owners consent.
Related resources
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 3:18:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc,alt.dbs.echostar (More info?)

"Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:

>If it's a lease and someone else owns the prperty, they have everyright to
>say you can't drill any holes in their property.
>
>You may be able to install the dish in a non-penetrating way (i.e. bucket
>filled with quickcrete as the stand) and run the wire under a door to get it
>inside, but if you don't own the property, you have no rights to make any
>physical modifications without the owners consent.

Furthermore, the owner has the right to charge you a reasonable fee for
inspecting your installation...
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 3:29:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc,alt.dbs.echostar (More info?)

So, is the federal law basically worthless in my case, and the CSR's
were wrong? They were pretty emphatic that they would be able to
install as long as it didn't affect health/safety.

I see that the statute also exempts historical buildings as well, but
I'm just in a regular complex...

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:18:28 GMT, "Seth"
<seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:

>"Ryan Meier" <ryan_meier@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:t47hb1dqqnegdlupe1qbn7jnell6g1c3fb@4ax.com...
>>
>> First off, can someone tell me the gist of the Federal law that
>> supposedly allows installation of satellites and other antennas,
>> regardless of what the lease says. I was told by the first two agents
>> I spoke with that that was the case, as long as "health and safety are
>> not affected". I guess that means that the installed dish and other
>> equipment can't block a stairwell, a pathway, etc., but I want to
>> know if that's really and true, and especially if it will override my
>> lease. I just renewed with my landlord for another year's lease in
>> May, and it indeed has a clause about satellites and other antennas
>> (basically saying that I am not allowed to install them). I live in a
>> two story apartment complex; it's not a condo or anything like that, I
>> have no ownership rights. I googled and found the federal statute,
>> and it does seem like it overrides my lease, but I would like to know
>> if anyone here has had experience with this law.
>
>If it's a lease and someone else owns the prperty, they have everyright to
>say you can't drill any holes in their property.
>
>You may be able to install the dish in a non-penetrating way (i.e. bucket
>filled with quickcrete as the stand) and run the wire under a door to get it
>inside, but if you don't own the property, you have no rights to make any
>physical modifications without the owners consent.
>
June 22, 2005 3:29:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc,alt.dbs.echostar (More info?)

"Ryan Meier" <ryan_meier@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:lj8hb1duv4vldqat6vnhkv2p955cc98qpp@4ax.com...
> So, is the federal law basically worthless in my case, and the CSR's
> were wrong? They were pretty emphatic that they would be able to
> install as long as it didn't affect health/safety.

Not worthless, just not as how you seem to be interpreting it.

Much of the law in regards to what you are reading has to do with condos and
townhomes and other properties governed by HOAs. There, the law (was
previously) very ambiguous and required clarification. There, there needed
a definition as to what was the owners and what was not and how it would be
treated (definitions such as common areas, exclusive use areas, who owned
and maintained sections of the structure and how it affected antenna
installation, etc...) and basically abolished HOA restrictions for antennas
under 1 meter in size (as is most DBS antennas).

In your situation, the law is pretty clear. You don't own, therefore you
can't drill holes in it.

Lets say you are a very generous person and let me borrow your car for a
month. I have a HAM radio, and decide that the antenna I have would work
great on your car while I am using it. So I drill a hole in the roof to
mount it (cause the best antennas mount directly to sheet metal to use the
vehicle surface as a ground plane). Then, when I no longer need the car, I
remove my antenna and give the car back to you.

Same thing as you drilling holes in the owners structure. As a renter, in
regards to modifying the property, the renter has very little rights, and
sorry to say, in my opinion, shouldn't. You didn't buy the property, you
have no investment in the property, what the value of the property is when
you move out is not a concern of yours, so why should you be able to drill
holes in it?

> I see that the statute also exempts historical buildings as well, but
> I'm just in a regular complex...

Not applicable in your case as those are also referring to general HOA
covenants.
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 4:02:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc,alt.dbs.echostar (More info?)

I found an FCC Fact Sheet that says that I must have an "area
exclusively used and accessible by the tenant, such as a balcony or
patio". I have no such area, so I guess no DISH for me...

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:29:35 GMT, Ryan Meier <ryan_meier@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>So, is the federal law basically worthless in my case, and the CSR's
>were wrong? They were pretty emphatic that they would be able to
>install as long as it didn't affect health/safety.
>
>I see that the statute also exempts historical buildings as well, but
>I'm just in a regular complex...
>
>On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:18:28 GMT, "Seth"
><seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"Ryan Meier" <ryan_meier@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:t47hb1dqqnegdlupe1qbn7jnell6g1c3fb@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> First off, can someone tell me the gist of the Federal law that
>>> supposedly allows installation of satellites and other antennas,
>>> regardless of what the lease says. I was told by the first two agents
>>> I spoke with that that was the case, as long as "health and safety are
>>> not affected". I guess that means that the installed dish and other
>>> equipment can't block a stairwell, a pathway, etc., but I want to
>>> know if that's really and true, and especially if it will override my
>>> lease. I just renewed with my landlord for another year's lease in
>>> May, and it indeed has a clause about satellites and other antennas
>>> (basically saying that I am not allowed to install them). I live in a
>>> two story apartment complex; it's not a condo or anything like that, I
>>> have no ownership rights. I googled and found the federal statute,
>>> and it does seem like it overrides my lease, but I would like to know
>>> if anyone here has had experience with this law.
>>
>>If it's a lease and someone else owns the prperty, they have everyright to
>>say you can't drill any holes in their property.
>>
>>You may be able to install the dish in a non-penetrating way (i.e. bucket
>>filled with quickcrete as the stand) and run the wire under a door to get it
>>inside, but if you don't own the property, you have no rights to make any
>>physical modifications without the owners consent.
>>
June 22, 2005 4:05:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc,alt.dbs.echostar (More info?)

"Ryan Meier" <ryan_meier@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mhahb1tqjn66p8t5cd5209ke70rbhqe9n9@4ax.com...
>I found an FCC Fact Sheet that says that I must have an "area
> exclusively used and accessible by the tenant, such as a balcony or
> patio". I have no such area, so I guess no DISH for me...

And that would only apply to you right to use a non-penetrating
installation. If you had such an area, you would still not be allowed to
drill any homes without the owners consent.
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 4:17:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc,alt.dbs.echostar (More info?)

Yes, that's the way I read the Fact Sheet I found. I'm going to try
and get straight-up permission; if he says no (probably) I may try
and bargain with him: there are a bunch of minor problems at the
moment with my apartment, and I'm willing to bet my landlord would be
willing to trade his not fixing any of the problems for allowing me to
have a satellite dish installed. If he doesn't play ball he's going
to have one noisily complaining tenant. And one small-claims
court-filing tenant if he doesn't fix the problems. He is one cheap
guy.

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 00:05:26 GMT, "Seth"
<seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:

>"Ryan Meier" <ryan_meier@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:mhahb1tqjn66p8t5cd5209ke70rbhqe9n9@4ax.com...
>>I found an FCC Fact Sheet that says that I must have an "area
>> exclusively used and accessible by the tenant, such as a balcony or
>> patio". I have no such area, so I guess no DISH for me...
>
>And that would only apply to you right to use a non-penetrating
>installation. If you had such an area, you would still not be allowed to
>drill any homes without the owners consent.
June 22, 2005 4:17:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc,alt.dbs.echostar (More info?)

"Ryan Meier" <ryan_meier@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:D 6bhb19akff38p3vftvlmdo7ut7bqlq3q9@4ax.com...
> Yes, that's the way I read the Fact Sheet I found. I'm going to try
> and get straight-up permission; if he says no (probably) I may try
> and bargain with him: there are a bunch of minor problems at the
> moment with my apartment, and I'm willing to bet my landlord would be
> willing to trade his not fixing any of the problems for allowing me to
> have a satellite dish installed. If he doesn't play ball he's going
> to have one noisily complaining tenant. And one small-claims
> court-filing tenant if he doesn't fix the problems. He is one cheap
> guy.

OK, with all the legalese out of the way, let's see if we can find a way to
make it worth his interest to have the dish there.

One of the things DiSH offers when people move is the "Dish Mover" package.
Basically, you leave the dish and wiring behind, only take your receiver
with you, and DiSH installs a new dish at your new address. By leaving the
dish behind, you have hopefully helped to make the property easier for the
owner to rent out (hey look new potential tenants, if you have or get DiSH
network, it's already wired!).

But do yourself a favor, no matter which way it goes, don't hassle the
landlord too much over little things. You are stuck living there for till
your lease is up, and he could make things very uncomfortable if the 2 of
you don't get along.
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 5:05:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc,alt.dbs.echostar (More info?)

Well, one of the minor problems relates directly to my looking into
satellite TV. When I first moved in the cable reception was extremely
bad; my cable modem couldn't lock on to a signal and my TV picture
was terrible; I did better with a cheapo antenna. The cable company
eventually fixed the problem by installing a bunch of new hardware at
their distribution box. But the cable outlet in my living room is bad
as well, and the cable company was not willing to run new wire from
their junction box into my living room outlet without a letter from
the landlord. They want to run it on the outside of the building; the
landlord wants it run inside, replacing the original wiring. So they
are at an impasse.

The cable company jury-rigged a solution by installing a splitter on
my other cable outlet, and running a cable (running across the floor
and through a door) to my TV/VCR. But I've tripped over that damn
wire three times since then, and got a nice gash the last time. I'm
not going to trip again, plus I can't totally close that door. So I
thought a satellite would be a reasonable compromise. But if he won't
allow even external wiring to be run, I don't think he'll allow a
satellite dish to be installed, unless I give him incentive to do so.

FWIW, the cable company says that running new wiring would be too
expensive, and that they would have to get premission from two other
tenants, because apparently my wiring runs alongside the wiring of two
other apartments.

Do you think a no-drill-holes solutionis possible in my situation? I
think the satellite people would have to mount the dish on the roof;
how heavy would a concrete (or whatever) weight need to be to securely
mount the dish? The roof is some kind of concrete or stone, but I
don't know if even an extremely heavy weight would be considered safe,
or even feasible. The only other option would be from them to mount
it on a railing that runs along a walkway and staircase; if it could
be mounted on the exterior of the railing it wouldn't be in anyone's
way. But I think they would have to drill in that case. Or maybe
they could use clamps, I dunno.

I wish they godfosaken landlord and my godforsaken cable company would
just agree on something and fix my cable wiring.

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 20:36:18 -0400, "Seth"
<seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:

>"Ryan Meier" <ryan_meier@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:D 6bhb19akff38p3vftvlmdo7ut7bqlq3q9@4ax.com...
>> Yes, that's the way I read the Fact Sheet I found. I'm going to try
>> and get straight-up permission; if he says no (probably) I may try
>> and bargain with him: there are a bunch of minor problems at the
>> moment with my apartment, and I'm willing to bet my landlord would be
>> willing to trade his not fixing any of the problems for allowing me to
>> have a satellite dish installed. If he doesn't play ball he's going
>> to have one noisily complaining tenant. And one small-claims
>> court-filing tenant if he doesn't fix the problems. He is one cheap
>> guy.
>
>OK, with all the legalese out of the way, let's see if we can find a way to
>make it worth his interest to have the dish there.
>
>One of the things DiSH offers when people move is the "Dish Mover" package.
>Basically, you leave the dish and wiring behind, only take your receiver
>with you, and DiSH installs a new dish at your new address. By leaving the
>dish behind, you have hopefully helped to make the property easier for the
>owner to rent out (hey look new potential tenants, if you have or get DiSH
>network, it's already wired!).
>
>But do yourself a favor, no matter which way it goes, don't hassle the
>landlord too much over little things. You are stuck living there for till
>your lease is up, and he could make things very uncomfortable if the 2 of
>you don't get along.
June 22, 2005 5:05:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc,alt.dbs.echostar (More info?)

"Ryan Meier" <ryan_meier@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:iedhb151fti7guq026etj7dfesu5uo4pcq@4ax.com...
> Well, one of the minor problems relates directly to my looking into
> satellite TV. When I first moved in the cable reception was extremely
> bad; my cable modem couldn't lock on to a signal and my TV picture
> was terrible; I did better with a cheapo antenna. The cable company
> eventually fixed the problem by installing a bunch of new hardware at
> their distribution box. But the cable outlet in my living room is bad
> as well, and the cable company was not willing to run new wire from
> their junction box into my living room outlet without a letter from
> the landlord. They want to run it on the outside of the building; the
> landlord wants it run inside, replacing the original wiring. So they
> are at an impasse.
>
> The cable company jury-rigged a solution by installing a splitter on
> my other cable outlet, and running a cable (running across the floor
> and through a door) to my TV/VCR. But I've tripped over that damn
> wire three times since then, and got a nice gash the last time. I'm
> not going to trip again, plus I can't totally close that door. So I
> thought a satellite would be a reasonable compromise. But if he won't
> allow even external wiring to be run, I don't think he'll allow a
> satellite dish to be installed, unless I give him incentive to do so.

Well, I'm not sure how the cable TV situation would really play into your
lease and any possible cause for forcing the issue. That's not really a
"must have to survive" item like heat or water.

> FWIW, the cable company says that running new wiring would be too
> expensive, and that they would have to get premission from two other
> tenants, because apparently my wiring runs alongside the wiring of two
> other apartments.
>
> Do you think a no-drill-holes solutionis possible in my situation? I
> think the satellite people would have to mount the dish on the roof;
> how heavy would a concrete (or whatever) weight need to be to securely
> mount the dish? The roof is some kind of concrete or stone, but I
> don't know if even an extremely heavy weight would be considered safe,
> or even feasible. The only other option would be from them to mount
> it on a railing that runs along a walkway and staircase; if it could
> be mounted on the exterior of the railing it wouldn't be in anyone's
> way. But I think they would have to drill in that case. Or maybe
> they could use clamps, I dunno.

Using non-penetrating mounts are only used on flat roofs. Too dangerous on
a picthed roof. Clamps have often been used as a non-permanent way of
securing to railings, so that should work.

> I wish they godfosaken landlord and my godforsaken cable company would
> just agree on something and fix my cable wiring.
>
> On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 20:36:18 -0400, "Seth"
> <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"Ryan Meier" <ryan_meier@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:D 6bhb19akff38p3vftvlmdo7ut7bqlq3q9@4ax.com...
>>> Yes, that's the way I read the Fact Sheet I found. I'm going to try
>>> and get straight-up permission; if he says no (probably) I may try
>>> and bargain with him: there are a bunch of minor problems at the
>>> moment with my apartment, and I'm willing to bet my landlord would be
>>> willing to trade his not fixing any of the problems for allowing me to
>>> have a satellite dish installed. If he doesn't play ball he's going
>>> to have one noisily complaining tenant. And one small-claims
>>> court-filing tenant if he doesn't fix the problems. He is one cheap
>>> guy.
>>
>>OK, with all the legalese out of the way, let's see if we can find a way
>>to
>>make it worth his interest to have the dish there.
>>
>>One of the things DiSH offers when people move is the "Dish Mover"
>>package.
>>Basically, you leave the dish and wiring behind, only take your receiver
>>with you, and DiSH installs a new dish at your new address. By leaving
>>the
>>dish behind, you have hopefully helped to make the property easier for the
>>owner to rent out (hey look new potential tenants, if you have or get DiSH
>>network, it's already wired!).
>>
>>But do yourself a favor, no matter which way it goes, don't hassle the
>>landlord too much over little things. You are stuck living there for till
>>your lease is up, and he could make things very uncomfortable if the 2 of
>>you don't get along.
>
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 5:07:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc,alt.dbs.echostar (More info?)

It's no scam, at least I'm pretty sure it's not. I mean, I called
DISH up and they had my all my account information in the system. The
call to DISH was made maybe ten minutes after I got off the phone with
rude-telemarketer lady.

Up till the last exchange, they were very professional sounding too.

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:30:08 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
<TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:

>"Ryan Meier" wrote:
>> This
>> is after I've been on the phone with them for over an hour while they
>> ran my credit, I put them on hold while I transferred money over to my
>> checking/debit account, scheduled the installation time, etc etc. She
>> says, obviously rude this time, "Fine, goodbye."
>
> Quick like a bunny, cancel the credit card account and get a new
>account number (free of charge). No telemarketer would spend that
>kind of time with you for their cut from a measely DBS account. It could
>quite easily have been a con artist getting your credit information -
>account nos. and authorization info. Better safe than really sorry.
>
>*TimDaniels*
June 22, 2005 6:17:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc,alt.dbs.echostar (More info?)

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

for the FCC guidelines for placements.

Jim


"Ryan Meier" <ryan_meier@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:t47hb1dqqnegdlupe1qbn7jnell6g1c3fb@4ax.com...
> Hi
>
>
>
> I'm new to satellite TV but just today signed up after being
> cold-called by a telemarketer selling DISH Network
> equipment/subscriptions. I've looked into DISH and DirecTV before but
> never signed up.
>
> First off, can someone tell me the gist of the Federal law that
> supposedly allows installation of satellites and other antennas,
> regardless of what the lease says. I was told by the first two agents
> I spoke with that that was the case, as long as "health and safety are
> not affected". I guess that means that the installed dish and other
> equipment can't block a stairwell, a pathway, etc., but I want to
> know if that's really and true, and especially if it will override my
> lease. I just renewed with my landlord for another year's lease in
> May, and it indeed has a clause about satellites and other antennas
> (basically saying that I am not allowed to install them). I live in a
> two story apartment complex; it's not a condo or anything like that, I
> have no ownership rights. I googled and found the federal statute,
> and it does seem like it overrides my lease, but I would like to know
> if anyone here has had experience with this law.
>
> Regarding the monthly subscription fee, I was told by the first two
> agents I spoke with was that my monthly bill would be $24.99 for the
> first three months, as a promotional price, and that included the fee
> for the second receiver; that the price would go up to $31.99 after
> the first three months, including a $2.50 fee for the second receiver,
> but that there would be an automatic $5.00 credit every month for the
> 24-months that I committed to. They also said that there was a
> 24-month price guarantee on the monthly rate. The $5.00 credit was
> due to my buying my equipment (two receivers, without DVR capability)
> up front for $199.
>
> Ok, fine so far. Towards the end of the call, I was transferred to
> the "legal department" where a different agent repeated the same
> details, but _without_ the $5.00 credit, and said the monthly fee for
> the second receiver would be $5.00, not $2.50. So I said, no, that's
> not what I was told. Another guy comes on, says he's a manager, and
> says what I was told by the first two agents was incorrect, or, rather
> rudely putting it, that "you simply don't understand". There's no
> $5.00 credit and the fee for the second receiver is $5.00. Supposedly
> the $5.00 credit only applied if I got a DVR. He then switched me
> back to the other agent without letting me say anything.
>
> The other agent then tried to get my final authorization. I said no,
> not without the $5.00 credit and the lower fee for the second
> receiver. She said, pretty damn rudely, "Sir, you must understand by
> now that will not get that price". I said ok, cancel the deal. This
> is after I've been on the phone with them for over an hour while they
> ran my credit, I put them on hold while I transferred money over to my
> checking/debit account, scheduled the installation time, etc etc. She
> says, obviously rude this time, "Fine, goodbye."
>
> At this point I wasn't sure if I had an account and an installation
> appointment or not. So I called Dish's 800 number to verify the
> monthly price and installation time. I was eventually transferred to
> a Hispanic agent who didn't seem to totally understand what I was
> saying. She eventually quoted me a monthly price, for "America's Top
> 60", with local channels, of $21.99 per month. That was supposedly
> with the fee for the second receiver, but before taxes. Now, this was
> the third price I had been given, but even lower this time. I asked
> her again to verify that that price was correct. She said it was. I
> verified my installation date and time with her and hung up.
>
> I called again, and this time got a very knowledgeable sounding,
> non-Hispanic (or at least very fluent in English Hispanic person) who
> seemed to be more on the ball. She told me that the monthly price was
> actually what I had been told originally: a promo price of $24.99 for
> the first three months, before taxes, then it would go up to $26.99
> for the remaining 21 months. That's with the fee for the second
> receiver and after a $5.00 automatic monthly credit.
>
> So, is this a deal that other people have been getting? The $26.99
> per month deal for "America's Top 60", including the second receiver
> fee and local channels? Also, does anyone know if the initial call I
> got was from DISH or from a telemarketing firm that they hired? Cause
> if it was from DISH I'm going to cancel due to their truly awful
> rudeness. If it was from a telemarketer I'll let it slide...and will
> forcefully recommend to DISH that they hire another telemarketing
> firm.
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 7:43:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc,alt.dbs.echostar (More info?)

In article <iedhb151fti7guq026etj7dfesu5uo4pcq@4ax.com>,
Ryan Meier <ryan_meier@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> Do you think a no-drill-holes solutionis possible in my situation?

Do you have any south-facing windows? If so, and if you've got a clear
view of the satellite position from one of those windows, you might be
able to mount the dish INSIDE your apartment. It'd be ugly, but maybe you
could put a plant or something between it and the bulk of your room.

This solution does have its problems, though. For one thing, glass will
attenuate the signal a bit, some types of glass more so than others. Thus,
you might need to replace the glass in the window. Then, as mentioned, it
can be an eyesore. The location of the window also might not be convenient
to your TV. Still, it's worth mentioning, and perhaps looking into it.

--
Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 3:41:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc,alt.dbs.echostar (More info?)

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 00:13:24 -0400, "Seth"
<seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:

>"Ryan Meier" <ryan_meier@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:iedhb151fti7guq026etj7dfesu5uo4pcq@4ax.com...
>> Well, one of the minor problems relates directly to my looking into
>> satellite TV. When I first moved in the cable reception was extremely
>> bad; my cable modem couldn't lock on to a signal and my TV picture
>> was terrible; I did better with a cheapo antenna. The cable company
>> eventually fixed the problem by installing a bunch of new hardware at
>> their distribution box. But the cable outlet in my living room is bad
>> as well, and the cable company was not willing to run new wire from
>> their junction box into my living room outlet without a letter from
>> the landlord. They want to run it on the outside of the building; the
>> landlord wants it run inside, replacing the original wiring. So they
>> are at an impasse.
>>
>> The cable company jury-rigged a solution by installing a splitter on
>> my other cable outlet, and running a cable (running across the floor
>> and through a door) to my TV/VCR. But I've tripped over that damn
>> wire three times since then, and got a nice gash the last time. I'm
>> not going to trip again, plus I can't totally close that door. So I
>> thought a satellite would be a reasonable compromise. But if he won't
>> allow even external wiring to be run, I don't think he'll allow a
>> satellite dish to be installed, unless I give him incentive to do so.
>
>Well, I'm not sure how the cable TV situation would really play into your
>lease and any possible cause for forcing the issue. That's not really a
>"must have to survive" item like heat or water.

Agreed, but it's something he should fix, or should at least allow the
cable company to fix. I would think it's a minir code violation to
have cable wiring running between doors and rooms like it is now in my
case.

>> FWIW, the cable company says that running new wiring would be too
>> expensive, and that they would have to get premission from two other
>> tenants, because apparently my wiring runs alongside the wiring of two
>> other apartments.
>>
>> Do you think a no-drill-holes solutionis possible in my situation? I
>> think the satellite people would have to mount the dish on the roof;
>> how heavy would a concrete (or whatever) weight need to be to securely
>> mount the dish? The roof is some kind of concrete or stone, but I
>> don't know if even an extremely heavy weight would be considered safe,
>> or even feasible. The only other option would be from them to mount
>> it on a railing that runs along a walkway and staircase; if it could
>> be mounted on the exterior of the railing it wouldn't be in anyone's
>> way. But I think they would have to drill in that case. Or maybe
>> they could use clamps, I dunno.
>
>Using non-penetrating mounts are only used on flat roofs. Too dangerous on
>a picthed roof. Clamps have often been used as a non-permanent way of
>securing to railings, so that should work.

It is a flat roof so that shouldn't be a problem. The clamp method on
the railing might be better, I'm not sure which would be less
visible/less ugly.

>> I wish they godfosaken landlord and my godforsaken cable company would
>> just agree on something and fix my cable wiring.
>>
>> On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 20:36:18 -0400, "Seth"
>> <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"Ryan Meier" <ryan_meier@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:D 6bhb19akff38p3vftvlmdo7ut7bqlq3q9@4ax.com...
>>>> Yes, that's the way I read the Fact Sheet I found. I'm going to try
>>>> and get straight-up permission; if he says no (probably) I may try
>>>> and bargain with him: there are a bunch of minor problems at the
>>>> moment with my apartment, and I'm willing to bet my landlord would be
>>>> willing to trade his not fixing any of the problems for allowing me to
>>>> have a satellite dish installed. If he doesn't play ball he's going
>>>> to have one noisily complaining tenant. And one small-claims
>>>> court-filing tenant if he doesn't fix the problems. He is one cheap
>>>> guy.
>>>
>>>OK, with all the legalese out of the way, let's see if we can find a way
>>>to
>>>make it worth his interest to have the dish there.
>>>
>>>One of the things DiSH offers when people move is the "Dish Mover"
>>>package.
>>>Basically, you leave the dish and wiring behind, only take your receiver
>>>with you, and DiSH installs a new dish at your new address. By leaving
>>>the
>>>dish behind, you have hopefully helped to make the property easier for the
>>>owner to rent out (hey look new potential tenants, if you have or get DiSH
>>>network, it's already wired!).
>>>
>>>But do yourself a favor, no matter which way it goes, don't hassle the
>>>landlord too much over little things. You are stuck living there for till
>>>your lease is up, and he could make things very uncomfortable if the 2 of
>>>you don't get along.
>>
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 6:55:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc,alt.dbs.echostar (More info?)

It appears that Ryan Meier <ryan_meier@yahoo.com> shook an Etch A
Sketch before scribbling:
> Hi
>
>
>
> I'm new to satellite TV but just today signed up after being
> cold-called by a telemarketer selling DISH Network
> equipment/subscriptions. I've looked into DISH and DirecTV before but
> never signed up.
>
> First off, can someone tell me the gist of the Federal law that
> supposedly allows installation of satellites and other antennas,
> regardless of what the lease says. I was told by the first two agents
> I spoke with that that was the case, as long as "health and safety are
> not affected". I guess that means that the installed dish and other
> equipment can't block a stairwell, a pathway, etc., but I want to
> know if that's really and true, and especially if it will override my
> lease. I just renewed with my landlord for another year's lease in
> May, and it indeed has a clause about satellites and other antennas
> (basically saying that I am not allowed to install them). I live in a
> two story apartment complex; it's not a condo or anything like that, I
> have no ownership rights. I googled and found the federal statute,
> and it does seem like it overrides my lease, but I would like to know
> if anyone here has had experience with this law.
>
(very bad Dish customer service experience snipped)

From reading your other messages, it seems you are not actually in an
apartment, but rather renting a floor of a house or a duplex from an
individual. Is this the case? If so, you may want to write a letter to the
owner asking them what area would be acceptable to mount a satellite dish,
and refer to the FCC information, including the fact that *some* area must
be provided and it can't put an excessive cost burden on you.

It is true that the FCC ruling overrides anything written in the lease to
restrict antennas/dishes. I used to fight the other side of this argument
(that rights can be given up by writing language into the lease) but over
time I have been given references to case law that proved otherwise. What
it all boils down to is how much you want to fight over it.
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 7:02:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc,alt.dbs.echostar (More info?)

No, I live in a regular apartment. I found an FCC Fact Sheet that
descirbed the law more clearly. The law states that I must have the
dish installed in a space that only I or my visitors can use and have
access to. Or, in limited circumstances, a common area.

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:55:45 GMT, "TV slug"
<yourshoesTV_slugandsocks@hotmail.com> wrote:

>It appears that Ryan Meier <ryan_meier@yahoo.com> shook an Etch A
>Sketch before scribbling:
>> Hi
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm new to satellite TV but just today signed up after being
>> cold-called by a telemarketer selling DISH Network
>> equipment/subscriptions. I've looked into DISH and DirecTV before but
>> never signed up.
>>
>> First off, can someone tell me the gist of the Federal law that
>> supposedly allows installation of satellites and other antennas,
>> regardless of what the lease says. I was told by the first two agents
>> I spoke with that that was the case, as long as "health and safety are
>> not affected". I guess that means that the installed dish and other
>> equipment can't block a stairwell, a pathway, etc., but I want to
>> know if that's really and true, and especially if it will override my
>> lease. I just renewed with my landlord for another year's lease in
>> May, and it indeed has a clause about satellites and other antennas
>> (basically saying that I am not allowed to install them). I live in a
>> two story apartment complex; it's not a condo or anything like that, I
>> have no ownership rights. I googled and found the federal statute,
>> and it does seem like it overrides my lease, but I would like to know
>> if anyone here has had experience with this law.
>>
>(very bad Dish customer service experience snipped)
>
>From reading your other messages, it seems you are not actually in an
>apartment, but rather renting a floor of a house or a duplex from an
>individual. Is this the case? If so, you may want to write a letter to the
>owner asking them what area would be acceptable to mount a satellite dish,
>and refer to the FCC information, including the fact that *some* area must
>be provided and it can't put an excessive cost burden on you.
>
>It is true that the FCC ruling overrides anything written in the lease to
>restrict antennas/dishes. I used to fight the other side of this argument
>(that rights can be given up by writing language into the lease) but over
>time I have been given references to case law that proved otherwise. What
>it all boils down to is how much you want to fight over it.
>
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 7:50:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.dbs.echostar,alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc (More info?)

On 22-Jun-2005, Ryan Meier <ryan_meier@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Agreed, but it's something he should fix, or should at least allow the
> cable company to fix. I would think it's a minir code violation to
> have cable wiring running between doors and rooms like it is now in my
> case.

Well, if the cable wiring running "between doors and rooms" is a code
violation that is your problem, not the landlord's.

--
Looking forward to the day when all schools are fully funded and the
Pentagon holds bake sales to buy bombers.
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 8:34:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.dbs.echostar,alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc (More info?)

But this is the solution that the cable company and the landlord came
up with. I didn't and don't particularly want a cable running along
the floor. Like I said I've tripped over the thing twice.

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:50:22 GMT, L230j@verizon.net wrote:

>
>
>On 22-Jun-2005, Ryan Meier <ryan_meier@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Agreed, but it's something he should fix, or should at least allow the
>> cable company to fix. I would think it's a minir code violation to
>> have cable wiring running between doors and rooms like it is now in my
>> case.
>
>Well, if the cable wiring running "between doors and rooms" is a code
>violation that is your problem, not the landlord's.
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 8:36:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.dbs.echostar,alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc (More info?)

On 22-Jun-2005, Ryan Meier <ryan_meier@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I found an FCC Fact Sheet that
> descirbed the law more clearly. The law states that I must have the
> dish installed in a space that only I or my visitors can use and have
> access to. Or, in limited circumstances, a common area.

Ryan, your reading of the law is as confusing as your posts.

The law provides that the owner of the apartment may not prohibit you from
installing a dish in any area that is for your exclusive use.

The law is intended to void arbitrary rules and regulations which prevent
reception of satellite or OTA signals by a tenant (or condo unit owner).

However, the owner does retain the right to prohibit certain types of
installations such as those which may damage the property.

So if you wish to install a dish in a common area (as you mention) or attach
it to the building using screws, you may do so only with permission from the
property owner.

You probably cannot "force" the property owner to do anything unless he is
in violation of the law, but you may be able to persuade him to approve what
you want if you can show him that it will benefit him as well as you.


--
Looking forward to the day when all schools are fully funded and the
Pentagon holds bake sales to buy bombers.
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 8:36:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.dbs.echostar,alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc (More info?)

L230j@verizon.net wrote:

> On 22-Jun-2005, Ryan Meier <ryan_meier@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>> I found an FCC Fact Sheet that
>>descirbed the law more clearly. The law states that I must have the
>>dish installed in a space that only I or my visitors can use and have
>>access to. Or, in limited circumstances, a common area.
>
>
> Ryan, your reading of the law is as confusing as your posts.
>
> The law provides that the owner of the apartment may not prohibit you from
> installing a dish in any area that is for your exclusive use.
>
> The law is intended to void arbitrary rules and regulations which prevent
> reception of satellite or OTA signals by a tenant (or condo unit owner).
>
> However, the owner does retain the right to prohibit certain types of
> installations such as those which may damage the property.
>
> So if you wish to install a dish in a common area (as you mention) or attach
> it to the building using screws, you may do so only with permission from the
> property owner.
>
> You probably cannot "force" the property owner to do anything unless he is
> in violation of the law, but you may be able to persuade him to approve what
> you want if you can show him that it will benefit him as well as you.

In other words, Stick with cable! :) 
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 8:45:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.dbs.echostar,alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc (More info?)

My understanding of the law I think is the same as yours. If my posts
are confusing it's only because I just looked into this in any depth
starting yesterday. Plus me being a bad writer, I suppose.



On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:36:49 GMT, L230j@verizon.net wrote:

>
>On 22-Jun-2005, Ryan Meier <ryan_meier@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I found an FCC Fact Sheet that
>> descirbed the law more clearly. The law states that I must have the
>> dish installed in a space that only I or my visitors can use and have
>> access to. Or, in limited circumstances, a common area.
>
>Ryan, your reading of the law is as confusing as your posts.
>
>The law provides that the owner of the apartment may not prohibit you from
>installing a dish in any area that is for your exclusive use.

This is more or less what I wrote in a couple of other posts...

>The law is intended to void arbitrary rules and regulations which prevent
>reception of satellite or OTA signals by a tenant (or condo unit owner).

Agreed.

>However, the owner does retain the right to prohibit certain types of
>installations such as those which may damage the property.

Yes.

>So if you wish to install a dish in a common area (as you mention) or attach
>it to the building using screws, you may do so only with permission from the
>property owner.

Ok.

>You probably cannot "force" the property owner to do anything unless he is
>in violation of the law, but you may be able to persuade him to approve what
>you want if you can show him that it will benefit him as well as you.

Well, like I said in another post there are 8 or 9 minor problems that
need to be fixed with my apartment, the foremost being the defective
cable wiring that got me looking into satellite TV in the first place.
If my cheap cable company and my even cheaper landlord could come to
some kind of agreement about fixing/replacing the damn wire I would't
have to deal with this.

But since they're not, I'm going to try and trade my landlord not
fixing some of the problems for him allowing me to install a dish. I
figure that's the only way I'll ever get him to cooperate.
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 10:35:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.dbs.echostar,alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc (More info?)

On 22-Jun-2005, George Wettling <Dixieland@drums.gov> wrote:

> In other words, Stick with cable! :) 

Not exactly what I meant to covey but that is an option for many folks.

Personally, I tried that twice and couldn't get used to the poor quality of
the analog channels on what is advertised as Digital Cable.

Sometimes one has to be very creative in dealing with reluctant landlords
and HOAs.

--
Looking forward to the day when all schools are fully funded and the
Pentagon holds bake sales to buy bombers.
Anonymous
June 23, 2005 3:57:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.dbs.echostar,alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc (More info?)

Ryan Meier wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:24:12 -0400, George Wettling
> <Dixieland@drums.gov> wrote:

>>>Most really are minor..oven light is out, stove light is out,
>>
>>Golly! Replacing lightbulbs is now the landlords job? Or are you not
>>edjmuacted enough to replace them?
>>How's that OEM roll of toilet paper hangin'?
>>(seems that I "imagined" what I thought all along! SPOT ON!)

> Uh, they're both non-standard sizes. Relatively expensive
> non-standard sizes.

They are called light bulbs for APPLIANCES, you dope!
Of course the ones you have in yer nite-lite to scare the booger man
away aren't gonna work.

If you were my tennent, I'd have you evicted just for being stupid and
whiney.

> Do you attend any sort of day program? You really should consider it.
> Try www.fountainhouse.org. They'll give you a referral. And buddy,
> do you ever need a referral.

"In 1948, a handful of men and women with major mental illnesses started
a quiet revolution ....This was the beginning of Fountain House."

Let me guess. You are a regular there, or one of the founding members?
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 11:37:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.dbs.echostar,alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc (More info?)

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:57:31 -0400, Roy Estrada <Beefheart@bass.gov>
wrote:

>
>They are called light bulbs for APPLIANCES, you dope!
>Of course the ones you have in yer nite-lite to scare the booger man
>away aren't gonna work.

The apartment operators in this area are responsible for replacing the
"light bulbs" in all of their apartments' lighting fixtures and
appliances!
>
>If you were my tennent, I'd have you evicted just for being stupid and
>whiney.

What exactly is a "tennent" ? Is that a device you use to replace your
tenant's light bulbs?????
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 4:39:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.dbs.echostar,alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc (More info?)

avoidspam@invalid.com wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:57:31 -0400, Roy Estrada <Beefheart@bass.gov>
> wrote:
>
>
>>They are called light bulbs for APPLIANCES, you dope!
>>Of course the ones you have in yer nite-lite to scare the booger man
>>away aren't gonna work.
>
>
> The apartment operators in this area are responsible for replacing the
> "light bulbs" in all of their apartments' lighting fixtures and
> appliances!

Bullshit.
Well, of course and unless it states exactly that in the lease.
Photo copy a lease agreement from "your area", and post it to a binary
newsgroup if you please.


>>If you were my tennent, I'd have you evicted just for being stupid and
>>whiney.
>
>
> What exactly is a "tennent" ? Is that a device you use to replace your
> tenant's light bulbs?????

Oh look! A spelling lamer!
Are you that loser's roomy?
!