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Installing a 3rd SATA internal HDD when master & slave are IDE

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January 12, 2011 11:58:05 PM

after seeing Paperdoc's advice here
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/265453-32-installing-...

is this my problem?


I purchased a new 1 TB SATA internal HDD and am trying to add it to my
system to copy data to it.

I have a 2006 era Gigabyte GA-K8NSC-939, Form Factor ATX CPU Socket Type
939 motherboard. it has two SATA ports (150Mbps speed).
my primary and slave internal Harddrives are IDE drives.
I am running Windows XP SP3.

I am adding a new WD black caviar 1 TB SATA drive for more storage
internally today.

It is not being recognized.
I looked at the online WD PDF of jumper settings and cannot figure
that's it.

This is my first time using one of the two 150Mbps SATA ports on my
motherboard.
Must I use the SATA 0 port or SATA 1 or it doesn't matter?

Since the new SATA HDD did not come with a jumper is this necessary to
tell the HDD to run at 150Mbps by adding a jumper on pins 5 & 6 or not
necessary?


I'm not a extreme techie and have never messed with the BIOS before.

Will a motherboard always recognize a SATA HDD first and not boot from
an IDE drive?

My longer plan is to start adding a bunch of music to this new 1 TB SATA
drive and within 6 months probably purchase a new AMR3+ Mobo,CPU, RAM, a
new SATA 500GB boot HDD, Windows7 OS. (and get rid of the old IDE drives
completely.)

How do I get this new SATA drive recognized?
a c 289 G Storage
January 14, 2011 12:30:08 AM

Well, let's ask questions to narrow it down. When you say that the disk is not recognized, do you just mean that there is no disk letter for it, which is to be expected, or that Disk Management doesn't see the empty drive?

Easiest case, the disk has not been "partitioned and formatted" and is otherwise fine. To find out, log in with an administrator account, go to Start Menu - Control Panel - Administrative Tools - Computer Management, and click on Disk Management on the tree on the left. Then make the window bigger so you can see more.

At the bottom, there should be two or three 1/2" to 3/4" wide horizontal stripes that are graphical representations of your disk drives (one per stripe) and the partitions on them (one per box within the disk stripe; there may be only one per stripe). Two of the stripes will represent the two disks that are working, and each box will be labelled with a letter corresponding to the disk letter used to present that part of your storage.

What we hope is that there is one more stripe, with no boxes in it and no disk letter, saying that it's 850 GB or more (you won't see one full TB, but that's another story about labeling). If you don't, describe what you do see and we'll try to walk through the BIOS. If you do see that empty drive, right-click in it, select that you want to Create a Partition, make it the entire size of the drive, make it NTFS, and choose to format it. When that is done, if you open Windows Explorer you will see a new, big, empty drive.

I've chosen to describe only the simplest-case answer. If you don't see the third empty stripe in Disk Management, we can look at other options.

As far as breaking your boot sequence goes, unless you do another operation that I haven't described here, or install an OS on that disk, the disk will not be bootable and the PC will ignore it during bootup. Technically, it will examine it first, find nothing to boot, and then go look at your IDE drives for something more interesting.

==========================================

Of course, your system may run faster if you transfer your OS to the newer, faster drive running on the faster channel, but that's a topic for another thread.
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a c 342 G Storage
January 14, 2011 2:53:59 AM

First, you are right NOT to change any jumper on the new HDD right now. IF it becomes necessary (to slow down to old SATA) you can do it then.

To start with, you WILL need to go into the BIOS and check a few things. If the new drive is not even detected in BIOS, you cannot do anything with it in Windows. Now, it is entirely possible that your mobo had the SATA ports DISabled by default, so that's the first thing we'll check.

To enter BIOS Setup you must reboot your machine and right away start holding down the "Del" key. Some machines use a different key, so watch your screen as the first messages display. Usually there will be a prompt (often at the bottom) to tell you which key gets you into BIOS Setup. Anyway, after some of the POST messages flow past the screen will stop on the opening menu of BIOS Setup. Most are designed so that you move around with cursor keys. There is likely a set of instructions on which keys do what. Move to the first main set of screens which will show you something about the IDE drives you already have working, plus other things like date/time, etc. You MAY find mention here of the SATA ports, but they may be on a different screen. Look around until you find where the SATA ports are managed. Look for a line about them, move to that line, and often you have to hit "Enter" or "Space Bar" or something to get details on this item and make changes. Watch for the screen prompts. You want to find whether the SATA ports on your machine are Enabled or Disabled, and change it to Enabled if necessary.

Next, back out of that and look very close nearby for a line about SATA Port Mode. Here you'll have a choice of IDE (or PATA) Emulation, or Native SATA, or AHCI, or RAID. For what you want to do, do NOT choose RAID. The ideal mode is AHCI, but that does mean that you will have to load the AHCI device driver into your Windows installation afterwards. (Often Windows will do this for you, because once it boots with that type of device connected it will detect the new hardware and try to load the driver.) If you want to make it really simple you can choose the IDE Emulation Mode. It will work perfectly, but you will lose a few benefits of the new SATA drive capabilities.

Back out of this and look again at the screen. Does it show you a SATA drive attached? Or maybe you'll have to move back to that first screen where the other drives are shown, to see if the SATA drive is there, too. And watch for potential confusion - some older mobo BIOS's label the SATA drives as if they were IDE drives that come after the real IDE drives, with names like "IDE Channel 3 Master". The key point is that you MUST be able to see the SATA drive somewhere in BIOS Setup, or the BIOS is not able to detect it. If it really is nowhere to be found in BIOS, MAYBE the interface speed is the problem. This is the one case where you might want to put a jumper on a pair of pins (specifically pins 5 and 6) to force the new drive to slow down to the 1.5 Gb/s speed. (Of course, to do that you have to get out of BIOS Setup - see below - and shut down the machine, then come back in after installing the jumper.) See this page on the WD website.

http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std...*jk&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_srch=1&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9NTEsNTEmcF9wcm9kcz0yMjcsMjc5JnBfY2F0cz0xMzAmcF9wdj0yLjI3OSZwX2N2PTEuMTMwJnBfcGFnZT0x&p_li=&p_topview=1

OK, once you can see the SATA drive in your BIOS Setup screen, you MIGHT want to check that it is NOT going to be used for booting. Look in the more advanced setup screens for a place where you specify the Boot Priority Sequence. Look at the details there. You want to be sure that it will try to boot from your original IDE drive you always have booted from (maybe the second choice after your optical drive). But there should be NO mention of using the new SATA drive to boot.

So, once you've looked around and set a few items, IF you had to change anything look for the screen prompts for how to get out of here. Usually there is a menu page, and often a quick single key from any page, that lets you SAVE and EXIT. There is usually a different key to exit without saving anything. Do one of those and the machine will reboot, and it should go into Windows XP by booting from the same IDE drive it always used.

Once Win XP is loaded up, watch for any quick message that it found new hardware and loaded a SATA or AHCI driver for it. That would completely confirm that your drive is working and Windows is happy.

Now you have more things to do. No OS can use any new blank hard drive right away. Two operations need to be done on it first, and they can be done using Disk Management built into Windows, as WyomingKnott has outlined. But they cannot be done if the BIOS does not even detect the existence of the HDD, and that's why I tried to guide you through a few BIOS steps to make sure it is working at the hardware level.

The first operation is called Creating a Partition. A Partition is a specified area of the hard drive that will be used as if it were one "Disk" with its own letter name. It is possible to make an entire HDD into one huge Partition, or to split it up into two or more separate "drives". I prefer the one huge Partition way, as WyomingKnott also suggested. When you Create the first Partition on a drive, that writes to a specific spot on the HDD a small file called the Partition Table and MBR, which contain a few key pieces of data. Any OS knows where to look for this and needs it to find the actual place where the Partition(s) is (are). After the Partition(s) is (are) Created, then each must be Formatted. This installs on the Partition a set of files used for managing all the data files you place there, and almost always you would want it to install the NTFS type of File System. As it happens, In SP3 of Win XP, when you use Disk Management to do these two operations, you get a helpful wizard to make it all easy and this combines the two steps into one process for simplicity. So follow WyomingKnott's outline. When you are done you exit back out of Disk Management and reboot, and Win XP will show you the new drive in My Computer, ready to use.
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Related resources
January 16, 2011 7:51:05 PM

When I checked the BIOS the SATA is enabled and data from SATA is
enabled.
When I plug in power & SATA cable to the new SATA HDD though the BIOS
never finishes 'detecting IDE drives' after it detects the initial
drives.

the BIOS is never detecting the SATA HDD.

I was told I may need to update the BIOS for my mobo to be able to see a 1TB drive in WinXP.
here is my motherboard and the URL for the downloads.

Which one do I use? The newest one? '2008/10/23'

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=...


i'll now go and try to check the SATA Port Mode and the possibility of also needed to put a jumper in again for 150Mbps mode.
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a c 342 G Storage
January 17, 2011 3:26:18 AM

If the messages you see on the screen during BIOS POST say it is detecting the IDE drives and then reports both correctly, then it has FINISHED detecting those with success and is trying to do the next task - probably, as you guess, detecting the SATA drive. That's where it is freezing, most likely because it keeps getting errors every time it tries (and re-tries) to access that device. Now, that certainly can happen if the new SATA HDD fails to adjust itself automatically to the communication speed of the older original SATA 1.5 Gb/s controller, so a jumper to force the slower speed on the HDD may be your solution.

You say, "I was told I may need to update the BIOS for my mobo to be able to see a 1TB drive in WinXP." That sounds like your adviser was confusing several things, and I doubt it is true. First of all, using HDD's over 137 GB DOES require that your BIOS has a feature called "48-bit LBA Support", and on older machines an update to the BIOS was necessary to get that but ONLY for IDE drives. The SATA design was released AFTER the 48-bit LBA system had been introduced, and hence ALL SATA systems include this feature - in the drives and in the controllers and the BIOS system that uses those devices. Now, 48-bit LBA Support also is required in the OS, and the first release of Win XP did not have it. But it WAS added with Service Pack 1 and maintained thereafter, and you're using SP3. So although Win XP has an impact on the ability to use large HDD's, that has NOTHING to do with BIOS updates. Moreover, your XP CAN use them no problem.

Bottom line, I really doubt you need a BIOS update to use that 1 TB SATA drive. From what you say, I'd suggest either you need the jumper fix to slow down the drive communication rate, or your new HDD is already dead and needs replacement. But you will not be able to test it with free diagnostic software from WD (their package called Data Lifeguard) until the BIOS can detect it, and that means you should try the jumper idea. Worst case, the jumper does NOT fix it and you have to contact WD about a replacement. But even if the jumper fix is NOT required, doing it will NOT reduce the drive's ability to work properly, so go ahead.

By the way, the jumpers used on SATA drives are NOT the same as those on older IDE units - the SATA ones are smaller. So if you don't have one, check with a computer supply shop. And be sure to put it only on the correct pin pair. On WD SATA drives it is possible to make the drive look "dead" if you place a jumper on the wrong pin pair.
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February 17, 2011 4:20:59 PM

WyomingKnott said:
Well, let's ask questions to narrow it down. When you say that the disk is not recognized, do you just mean that there is no disk letter for it, which is to be expected, or that Disk Management doesn't see the empty drive?

Easiest case, the disk has not been "partitioned and formatted" and is otherwise fine. To find out, log in with an administrator account, go to Start Menu - Control Panel - Administrative Tools - Computer Management, and click on Disk Management on the tree on the left. Then make the window bigger so you can see more.

At the bottom, there should be two or three 1/2" to 3/4" wide horizontal stripes that are graphical representations of your disk drives (one per stripe) and the partitions on them (one per box within the disk stripe; there may be only one per stripe). Two of the stripes will represent the two disks that are working, and each box will be labelled with a letter corresponding to the disk letter used to present that part of your storage.

What we hope is that there is one more stripe, with no boxes in it and no disk letter, saying that it's 850 GB or more (you won't see one full TB, but that's another story about labeling). If you don't, describe what you do see and we'll try to walk through the BIOS. If you do see that empty drive, right-click in it, select that you want to Create a Partition, make it the entire size of the drive, make it NTFS, and choose to format it. When that is done, if you open Windows Explorer you will see a new, big, empty drive.

I've chosen to describe only the simplest-case answer. If you don't see the third empty stripe in Disk Management, we can look at other options.

As far as breaking your boot sequence goes, unless you do another operation that I haven't described here, or install an OS on that disk, the disk will not be bootable and the PC will ignore it during bootup. Technically, it will examine it first, find nothing to boot, and then go look at your IDE drives for something more interesting.

==========================================

Of course, your system may run faster if you transfer your OS to the newer, faster drive running on the faster channel, but that's a topic for another thread.



WyomingKnot, I don't mean to horn-in BUT I've got a similar problem, that is I've just installed an OCZ 60G SSD for bootup loaded Win 7 64bt running in IDE as ASUS teld me to do and it boots fine and can see all three DDs under Computer Mgmt - that is both the WD 500GB old primary HDD and back-up Samsung 1TB HDD BUT I can't get into the WD after booting up from the OCZ SSD?
When I open Disk 2 (F:)  section - E: is Sys Res - I get many .dii etc., files but what I need is my programs, documents, etc.,?
The SSD is Disk 0 w/ 100MB NTFS System Reserve and (C:)  w/ 51.14 GB NTFS - everything's Healthy; Disk 1 Samsung 1Tb w/931.51 GB NTFS again-Healthy, Disk 2 is the WD 500GB w/SysRes(E:)  100 MB NTFS Healthyj and (F:)  465.66 GB NTFS Healthy?
Do you have any advice as to what I may have done wrong or what else I need to do so I may boot from the OCZ SSD and than go into the WD for all operations, etc.????
ob1canobe@comcast.net
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April 4, 2011 11:52:08 PM

WyomingKnott said:
Well, let's ask questions to narrow it down. When you say that the disk is not recognized, do you just mean that there is no disk letter for it, which is to be expected, or that Disk Management doesn't see the empty drive?

Easiest case, the disk has not been "partitioned and formatted" and is otherwise fine. To find out, log in with an administrator account, go to Start Menu - Control Panel - Administrative Tools - Computer Management, and click on Disk Management on the tree on the left. Then make the window bigger so you can see more.

At the bottom, there should be two or three 1/2" to 3/4" wide horizontal stripes that are graphical representations of your disk drives (one per stripe) and the partitions on them (one per box within the disk stripe; there may be only one per stripe). Two of the stripes will represent the two disks that are working, and each box will be labelled with a letter corresponding to the disk letter used to present that part of your storage.

What we hope is that there is one more stripe, with no boxes in it and no disk letter, saying that it's 850 GB or more (you won't see one full TB, but that's another story about labeling). If you don't, describe what you do see and we'll try to walk through the BIOS. If you do see that empty drive, right-click in it, select that you want to Create a Partition, make it the entire size of the drive, make it NTFS, and choose to format it. When that is done, if you open Windows Explorer you will see a new, big, empty drive.

I've chosen to describe only the simplest-case answer. If you don't see the third empty stripe in Disk Management, we can look at other options.

As far as breaking your boot sequence goes, unless you do another operation that I haven't described here, or install an OS on that disk, the disk will not be bootable and the PC will ignore it during bootup. Technically, it will examine it first, find nothing to boot, and then go look at your IDE drives for something more interesting.

==========================================

Of course, your system may run faster if you transfer your OS to the newer, faster drive running on the faster channel, but that's a topic for another thread.

=====

WyomingKnot.. you sir are awesome! thankyou for your detailed description,,, you solved my issue instantly with your well throughtout insturctions... thankyou
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